The relationship between the Ten Commandments, the Sabbath, and the New Covenant

[timothyu]

Today the Sabbath is necessary for monetary reasons. If the decree was obeyed the loss in global revenues to the Sabbatarian movement would be in the billions.

Big deal, that is worldly thinking and not of the Kingdom

 

[Bob S]

Like I said, it's hard to have an honest discussion with someone who is only here to justify their reliigon.

Ditto

"The decree wasn't just about not requiring circumcision but not requiring Gentiles to keep the law of Moses, which includes the Sabbath."

Wrong

 

[Studyman]

What are you talking about? You're rambling on about everything just to avoid the main point which is hardly honest discussion. All I'm saying is that the scripture is crystal clear:
"The apostles, the elders, and the brethren,
To the brethren who are of the Gentiles in Antioch, Syria, and Cilicia:
Greetings."

This is a letter directly from the leaders of the Church sent to the Gentile believers in Asia

"Since we have heard that some who went out from us have troubled you with words, unsettling your souls, saying, “You must be circumcised and keep the law”—to whom we gave no such commandment."

Yes, the Apostles didn't want the Gentile converts from any nation, "to turn away from God", and adopt the commandments (Laws) of men the Pharisees taught for doctrines.

Of course the Apostles steered them away from the children of the devil, and towards Moses, being read every Sabbath Day.

Those "some who went out" were most likely sent by the Pharisee sect that said earlier to the Jerusalem congregation: “It is necessary to circumcise them, and to command them to keep the law of Moses.”

Again, the Apostles knew about the doctrines of the Pharisees, and the Laws they claimed were from Moses because they believed in Jesus, and His Word's concerning them, and told them instead to "Abstain" from the Sins common to them knowing that they would learn the rest through the Holy scriptures which were trustworthy "for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: That the man of God (Jew or Gentile) may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.

Just because you don't believe Jesus and Paul's words concerning the Pharisees and the Law they promoted, doesn't make them void or false.

So we now know exactly what law the apostles and the elders are talking about in the decree, the law of Moses,

No, Paul directed the Gentile converts to abstain from transgressing the Laws of Moses they were prone to transgress. They were already privy to God's Holy Sabbath and were eager to not work on it, and hear more about God, which was part of it's purpose in the first place.

Acts 13: 42 And when the Jews were gone out of the synagogue, the Gentiles besought that these words might be preached to them the next sabbath. 43 Now when the congregation was broken up, many of the Jews and religious proselytes followed Paul and Barnabas: who, speaking to them, persuaded them to continue in the grace of God. 44 And the next sabbath day came almost the whole city together "to hear the word of God".

It's absurd to promote the falsehood that Jesus and the Apostles God gave to Him, promoted the transgression of God's Laws.

whether it's according to the Pharisees' interpretation, Moses' interpretation, the apostles' interpretation or your interpretation, we all know that it includes the 7th day Sabbath rest.

According to the Holy Scriptures, it was the Christ who set apart and Sanctified the 7th Day as Holy to me, and Holy to Him in the first place. He said HE made it for me, and that it is truly a "Feast of the Christ". Yes, "Many" who profess to know God, despise God's Judgments and Sabbaths as shown all over the Holy Scriptures. But Jesus didn't, Paul didn't, Peter didn't, James didn't, and as a matter of Biblical fact, not ONE Example of Faithful man in the entire Bible, walks the Path you are promoting where God's commandments are concerned.

So when you say "we", you are not speaking to the "many" Faithful men who "Yield themselves" servants to obey God. You are speaking abount the "children of disobedience" of which the Apostles were not partakers of.

And this gives further evidence that the visit to the Gentiles in Asia wasn't just about circumcision, but it was also about getting them to keep the law of Moses.

No according to the Christ "of the Bible".

And the apostles and the elders, by decree, voided all the plans and efforts of the Pharisee sect, that secretly went over their heads to get the Gentiles circumcised and keeping the law of Moses, by simply saying in that decree, "we gave no such commandment."

Yes, the Apostles kept the New converts from adopting the philosophies of the children of disobedience. Your entire philosophy is destroyed by the very Words of the Christ "of the bible". I asked you to find even ONE place in the Law and Prophets, or the New Testament where the Christ, the Holy One of Israel who became Flesh, EVER Said even ONE time, that the Pharisees and rebellious Jews were keeping and promoting the "Law of Moses".

And you can't because HE never did, because they were not teaching for doctrines the Commandments of God, Rather, they were promoting to the Gentile Converts, the Commandments of men.

That's it. Case closed. There never was a command from the apostles for Gentiles to keep the law of Moses which includes the Sabbath.

1 Cor. 7: 19 Circumcision (Jew) is nothing, and uncircumcision (Gentile) is nothing, but the keeping of the commandments of God.

The only reason to disobey this decree and teach people a modern, Gentile version of the law of Moses, that was invented by a Gentile woman of the 19th/20th century, is for monetary reasons. And that's the truth!

Maybe your jesus is a woman, I don't know what you are talking about. But the Jesus "of the bible", to which I have "Yielded myself" a servant to obey, said that I am to "Live By" EVERY WORD of God. I would post His Words, but you will not be persuaded by them. And Jesus explained the reason for that as well, should anyone reading want to know.

Luke 16: 31 And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead.

 

[Studyman]

Wrong

Yes, the person I quoted here is wrong. Something we can finally agree on.

 

[Canuckster]

Yes, the Apostles didn't want the Gentile converts from any nation, "to turn away from God", and adopt the commandments (Laws) of men the Pharisees taught for doctrines.

No. The apostles clearly state in the decree that they gave no such commandment for Gentile believers to get circumcised and keep the law. We all know in the decree the apostles were not referring to "the commandments (Laws) of men the Pharisees taught for doctrines." That's just your dishonest retort. They were referring to the law, or sometimes referred to as the law of Moses, which are not commandments of men and includes the 7th day Sabbath rest.

 

[Canuckster]

Big deal, that is worldly thinking and not of the Kingdom

It's not my worldly thinking it's the worldly thinking of those who use false doctrine to exploit others. And that is a big deal to the exploited and to those that are too non-worldly thinking to mention it.

 

[daq]

No. The apostles clearly state in the decree that they gave no such commandment for Gentile believers to get circumcised and keep the law.

No, the Apostles do not clearly state that in the decree, and that is because the passage is disputed.

Acts 15:24 KJV (Textus Receptus)
24 Forasmuch as we have heard, that certain which went out from us have troubled you with words, subverting your souls, saying, Ye must be circumcised, and keep the law: to whom we gave no such commandment:

Acts 15:24 ASV (Nestle-Aland)
24 Forasmuch as we have heard that certain who went out from us have troubled you with words, subverting your souls; to whom we gave no commandment;

Why is the statement, and keep the law, missing from the ASV and other translations? Because it only appears in the Byzantine text types and the Textus Receptus.

We all know in the decree the apostles were not referring to "the commandments (Laws) of men the Pharisees taught for doctrines." That's just your dishonest retort. They were referring to the law, or sometimes referred to as the law of Moses, which are not commandments of men and includes the 7th day Sabbath rest.

No, we don't all know that, and actually the evidence from a deeper study shows that Studyman is much more likely correct.

Acts 15:1 KJV (Textus Receptus)
1 And certain men which came down from Judaea taught the brethren, and said, Except ye be circumcised after the manner of Moses, ye cannot be saved.

Acts 15:1 YLT (Textus Receptus)
1 And certain having come down from Judea, were teaching the brethren--'If ye be not circumcised after the custom of Moses, ye are not able to be saved;'

Acts 15:1 ASV (Nestle-Aland)
1 And certain men came down from Judæa and taught the brethren, saying, Except ye be circumcised after the custom of Moses, ye cannot be saved.

Whether the statement should read manner or custom is up to translator opinion because the Greek word used here, (G1485 ethos), means both. However, when used in this type of context, (commandments of/from the Torah), it is more correctly custom. The reason, and especially here, is because in this context custom does not mean there was or is a particular custom of Mosheh about how to perform circumcision but, much rather, the custom of the Pharisees regarding the Torah (of Mosheh).

In other words those in the passage, (no doubt Pharisees, though they are not named), were attempting to enforce Pharisee doctrine upon the Gentiles, to observe circumcision according to (after) the custom of the Pharisees who sat in "Mosheh's seat", which means therefore according to their own interpretation of the Torah regarding circumcision. There actually is no straightforward evidence in the scripture that Mosheh had either a manner or a custom for how the circumcision commands were to be carried out/observed.

 

[Canuckster]

It's in the NKJV, KJV and 1611 KJV... that's good for me and millions of other believers just not for the Sabbatarians who always use versions that omit it. The idea that Jewish apostles during that time would teach the law of Moses to Gentiles without the requirement of circumcision is ludicrous. The lord of the Sabbatarians is an American woman that's been dead for over 100 years. No wonder they have such pathetic doctrines.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

Where is circumcision at Creation, when God made the Sabbath Exo 20:11 where is it in the New Heaven and New Earth Isa 66:23. There is nothing in the Ten Commandments about circumcision Exo 20:1-17

I would highly recommend this sermon which breaks down circumcision and puts it in its proper context by Scripture

 

[Canuckster]

Where is circumcision at Creation, when God made the Sabbath Exo 20:11 where is it in the New Heaven and New Earth Isa 66:23. There is nothing in the Ten Commandments about circumcision Exo 20:1-17

I would highly recommend this sermon which breaks down circumcision and puts it in its proper context by Scripture

Moses didn't separate the 10 commandments, which were given during his time, from the law and create two separate laws, one law for Israelites and a special law for Gentiles (10 commandments). And neither did Jesus when He said to the Jewish multitudes regarding those who sat in Moses' seat and taught them the law, "whatever they tell you to observe, that observe and do." This law that was taught by those in Moses' seat, is the same law that's referred to in the decree, (also known as the law of Moses). It's this law that the apostles "gave no such commandment" for Gentile believers to observe, which includes the Sabbath.

It wasn't until an American woman came around almost 2,000 years later, that the 10 commandments were separated from the law (the law of Moses), emphasizing the Sabbath rest as a universal requirement for salvation. People can either follow this American woman, who has been dead for over a century, or they can follow the living Christ who inspired the apostles by the Holy Spirit (Acts 15:28) to address this issue and settle it once and for all by decree.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

Moses didn't separate the 10 commandments, which were given during his time, from the law and create two separate laws, one law for Israelites and a special law for Gentiles (10 commandments).

Who ever claimed this.

And neither did Jesus when He said to the Jewish multitudes regarding those who sat in Moses' seat and taught them the law, "whatever they tell you to observe, that observe and do." This law that was taught by those in Moses' seat, is the same law that's referred to in the decree, (also known as the law of Moses). It's this law that the apostles "gave no such commandment" for Gentile believers to observe, which includes the Sabbath.

Why are you isolating the Sabbath commandment. Its in the same unit as only worship God. Exo 20:3 Exo 20:1-17

Do you think only worship God is no longer a requirement for those with faith that are grafted into God's covenant promise?

It wasn't until an American woman came around almost 2,000 years later, that the 10 commandments were separated from the law (the law of Moses), emphasizing the Sabbath rest as a universal requirement for salvation. People can either follow this American woman, who has been dead for over a century, or they can follow the living Christ who inspired the apostles by the Holy Spirit (Acts 15:28) to address this issue and settle it once and for all by decree.

The Sabbath started at Creation, thus saith the Lord, it is His written and spoken Testimony Exo 31:18 Exo 20:11 and it is the Holy Day of the Lord, thus saith the Lord Isa 58:13 meaning there is no other. It was kept by Jesus who is God that became flesh Luke 4:16 John 15:10 if we abide in Him, we will also follow in His footsteps 1 John 2:6 1 Peter 2:21-22 Heb 4:15. Keeping the 4th commandment has nothing to do with 2000 years after Christ, other than a reminder of what God said. God's faithful keep God's commandments Rev 14:12, His version, because He is God and there is no one above Him and we are told whoever we obey is who we serve Rom 6:16 I want to serve God, so that's who my faith is in, every word that proceeds from the mouth of God as Jesus told us, quoting OT Mat 4:4

 

[Leaf473]

In North Korea, it's illegal to criticize the leader. I don't live in North Korea, but I don't criticize their leader. This doesn't mean I am acknowledging that I am under the laws of North Korea

The Ten Commandments say worship only one God. The Quran says worship only one God

I worship only one God. This doesn't mean that I am acknowledging that I am under the Ten Commandments or the Quran

 

[SabbathBlessings]

There are many gods of the world and according to Scripture whoever we obey, is who we serve Rom 6:16 so many might not even realize they are worshipping another god

In the Ten Commandments- God's own personal Testimony Exo 31:18 the Sabbath connects to the God of Creation Exo 20:11, it is a sign of His sanctification Eze 20:12 and a sign He is our God Eze 20:20, the God of the Bible. When we go away from this to seek our own sanctification Isa 66:17 and seek our own commandments instead of obeying God's as Jesus quoted right from this same unit Mat 15:3-14 Mark 7:7-13 Jesus warns us where that path leads to. Mat 15:14

This is really not an augment with a human, these are all thus saith the Lord. When we obey Him the way God asks, we are serving the one True God. Rev 14:12

 

[Leaf473]

Not an argument, but a discussion

It can be a discussion with a human over how we go about honoring God and how we honor the Sabbath

First occurrence of the word Sabbath in the Bible

Exodus 16:23
He said to them, “This is that which the Lord has spoken, ‘Tomorrow is a solemn rest, a holy Sabbath to the Lord. Bake that which you want to bake, and boil that which you want to boil; and all that remains over lay up for yourselves to be kept until the morning

 

[SabbathBlessings]

That Scripture is showing one way to prepare for the Sabbath. I am not one who is able to judge God's law - if one feels they can do so, that's way above me.

First occurrence of the Sabbath is at Creation Exo 20:11 Gen 2:1-3

 

[Studyman]

Moses didn't separate the 10 commandments, which were given during his time, from the law and create two separate laws, one law for Israelites and a special law for Gentiles (10 commandments).

It's important to understand that there are folks, like myself and Daq and others, who study what the actual Scriptures say, often times comparing translations and doing word studies in search for God's Truth. Study that faithful men are instructed to engage in, "to show ourselves approved unto God". A man who engages in this study of the Holy Scriptures will find that from the very beginning it is the tradition of men to reject God's Instructions, Commandments and Judgments, and go about establishing their own. It was the same for the mainstream religions of the world God placed Paul in. (Rom. 10)

Throughout the Bible we are given examples of men, for our own admonition, who listened and obeyed God's instruction, like Abel, Caleb, David, Shadrach, Stephen, Peter etc., and these men were always ridiculed, persecuted, demeaned, belittled and so forth by the mainstream religions of their time. "Many" of these "mainstream religions of this world, "Profess to know God", but are disobedient to Him. They call Jesus Lord, Lord, but refuse to submit themselves as "Doers" of His Sayings, being hearers only. In the world God placed you and I in, the mainstream religion of this world that "Comes in Christ's Name" is the Catholic religion and her many Protestant daughters. Like the mainstream religions of Paul's time, they also rejected God's instructions, Commandments and Judgments, and have gone about establishing their own righteousness. They reject God's Holy Sabbath, and HIS definition of Holy, Clean and righteousness, and have created their own. Like Paul, you and I were also taught by these religions to reject God's Commandments and live by popular religious traditions instead. This has been the same from the very beginning, as Jeremiah even warns. (Jer. 10:2-4)

In our discussion you have defended and promoted popular religious tradition that you were taught by this world's religions, the same as the promoters of the mainstream religions of Paul's time in Acts. 15. You have been taught, just like I have, that God's Laws are the Yoke of Bondage placed on the necks of the Apostles and their faithers that they couldn't bear. You have been taught that the Commandments contained in ordinances that created a wall of separation between Jews and Gentiles that relegated faithful Gentiles as "without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world" were commandments created by God and given to Moses.

No doubt we have been taught, just like Paul and Stephen was, from our youth, that God's Laws are "Beggarly Elements, "Rudiments of this world, "Traditions of men" and led the Jews astray.

But when a person reads what is actually written, not just a verse here or there, but all that is written, these popular religious philosophies are exposed as insidious lies taught by the "other voice" in the garden, the father of lies.

You are right when you said God didn't create a separate Law for Jews, and another separate Law for Gentiles. I know this because God's Servant, that God chose, told me so in the Words that the Jesus "of the Bible" instructed for men to Live By.

Ex. 12: 49 One law shall be to him that is homeborn, and unto the stranger that sojourneth among you.

And neither did Jesus when He said to the Jewish multitudes regarding those who sat in Moses' seat and taught them the law, "whatever they tell you to observe, that observe and do." This law that was taught by those in Moses' seat, is the same law that's referred to in the decree, (also known as the law of Moses).

Your adopted religion may have taught you this. And I tried to get you to consider what is actually written, because if you did, you would know that the Pharisees Law they called "the law of Moses", and the actual "Law of Moses" were two different things. This is why Jesus said to "Do" what Moses instructed, as God sent Him to give men God's Judgments, Statutes and Commandments. But don't follow the religious philosophies of the mainstream preachers of that time who had exclusive possession of the Bible, because they "Profess to know God" but they are disobedient to Him and were teaching for doctrines the Commandments of Men. At least this is what the Jesus "of the Bible" teaches.

Today we both have the Oracles of God in our own home. "You" sit in Moses Seat. "You" can hear God's Words that HE spoke to Moses and the Prophets. And if you Loved the Jesus "of the Bible" then when you hear His Voice, "It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God." You will not harden your heart, as the examples of rebellious men did in the mainstream religions of Paul's Time.

It's this law that the apostles "gave no such commandment" for Gentile believers to observe, which includes the Sabbath.

This is simply not true if what is written in Scriptures are trustworthy "for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works".

Of course if the Word of God is not trustworthy "for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness", as the serpent convinced Eve, then my Faith is in vain.

It wasn't until an American woman came around almost 2,000 years later, that the 10 commandments were separated from the law (the law of Moses), emphasizing the Sabbath rest as a universal requirement for salvation. People can either follow this American woman, who has been dead for over a century, or they can follow the living Christ who inspired the apostles by the Holy Spirit (Acts 15:28) to address this issue and settle it once and for all by decree.

Jesus and the Apostles and Gentiles were walking in God's Sabbaths long before Miller or White or Wesley or Arminius or Augustine came along.

Is. 56: 6 Also the sons of the stranger, (Gentile) that join themselves to the LORD, to serve him, and to love the name of the LORD, to be his servants, every one that keepeth the sabbath from polluting it, and taketh hold of my covenant; 7 Even them will I bring to my holy mountain, and make them joyful in my house of prayer: their burnt offerings and their sacrifices shall be accepted upon mine altar; for mine house shall be called an house of prayer for all people.

If Paul were here today, instead of telling you to "abstain from pollutions of idols, and from fornication, and from things strangled, and from blood.", which is not a common practice of the inhabitants of the world God placed us in, he would teach us to abstain from promoting images of God in the likeness of men, and from adulterous behavior, and from swine's flesh, and from man made high days and Sabbaths.

He would instruct men to become "Doers" of the Christ "of the bible's" Sayings, and "Live By" Every Word of God, not the religious philosophies of Wesley, Calvin, the Pope or a woman named White.

But Jesus said "many" who call Him Lord, Lord, will not be persuaded to to turn away from the "course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience". And HE tells us why.

Luke 16: 31 And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead.

Clearly this Jesus knew what HE was talking about.

 

[Leaf473]

If we say we are to keep this law from Leviticus and not that one, we are performing a judgment on the law. If the scriptures themselves clearly state which laws are to be kept, that's different

But if no scriptures clearly say so, then to keep the commandment from Leviticus that says to have a holy assembly on the Sabbath while not keeping other commandments would seem inconsistent imo

These things I remember, and pour out my soul within me,
how I used to go with the crowd, and led them to God’s house,
with the voice of joy and praise, a multitude keeping a holy day Psalm 42

 

[Studyman]

If we say we are to keep this law from Leviticus and not that one, we are performing a judgment on the law. If the scriptures themselves clearly state which laws are to be kept, that's different

But if no scriptures clearly say so, then to keep the commandment from Leviticus that says to have a holy assembly on the Sabbath while not keeping other commandments would seem inconsistent imo

These things I remember, and pour out my soul within me,
how I used to go with the crowd, and led them to God’s house,
with the voice of joy and praise, a multitude keeping a holy day Psalm 42

There is no Commandment from God to have a holy assembly on God's Holy Weekly Sabbath.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

I beleive Lev 23:3 is an example of keeping the Sabbath day holy as we are shown all throughout the entire Bible Heb 10:25 Luke 4:16 Acts 13:42,44 Acts 15:21 Acts 18:4 and continues on for eternity Isa 66:23.

 

[Leaf473]

Is Leviticus 23:3 an example or a commandment?

There is no Commandment from God to have a holy assembly on God's Holy Weekly Sabbath.

Six days shall work be done, but on the seventh day is a Sabbath of solemn rest, a holy assembly

What does your Bible say there, Studyman?