THE READINESS RAPTURE: It's not just another rapture theory

[BABerean2]

Why do you think Jesus will catch people up into the air - what do you think happens in the air when we are up in the air"

Paul describes the reason below.

1Co 15:49 And as we have borne the image of the man of dust, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly Man.

1Co 15:50 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; nor does corruption inherit incorruption.

1Co 15:51 Behold, I tell you a mystery: We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed—

1Co 15:52 in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.

1Co 15:53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.

1Co 15:54 So when this corruptible has put on incorruption, and this mortal has put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written: "DEATH IS SWALLOWED UP IN VICTORY."

Our corruptible flesh body will be transformed into an incorruptible body like his.

Normal flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God.

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[Quasar92]

If it is "common sense" to say that Christ returns to heaven in 1 Thessalonians 4:17, instead of returning to the earth, why did the Early Church Fathers believe the latter, as proven by the link below?

Pretribulationist Revisionism
(Grant Jeffrey’s revision of early Church Posttrib viewpoints)
Pastor Tim Warner
http://www.answersinrevelation.org/Jeffrey.pdf

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A review of my post #148 in the translation history of 2 Thess.2, reveals some sadly misguided soul(s) altered the meaning of verse 3, to make it better fit their present day belief system. Giving no thought whatever to the ancient Jewish custom of a seven year engagementny/wait, until the marriage took place, as recorded in Gen.29:19-30 [a check on the correct passage of Scripture for that is being made now]. Which is the very reason for the seven years between the rapture of the Church, in 2 Thess.2:3 and 7-8, the marriage of the Bride/Church to the Lamb/Jesus, in Rev.19:7-8, and then Jesus return to earth in His second coming WITH His Church in verse 14.

The Church Fathers did not know as much as devoutly astute Bible theologians know today.


Quasar92

 

[keras]

You have not refuted anything - the Only thing you have done is give your adulterated opinion
There is no proof of being raptured then immediately return to earth - you simply do not understand what or why the rapture happens

What there is NO proof of; is a removal to heaven of the Church.

I understand very well what God requires of us. We are earth creatures, our place is on earth. God has angels to serve Him in heaven, we have work to do for Him here.
The dream of a 'rapture to heaven' is just a fable, such as Paul tells us will be prevalent in the end times. 2 Timothy 4:3-4
Why believe it? Why think you can avoid the trials and testing to come"

Why do you think Jesus will catch people up into the air - what do you think happens in the air when we are up in the air"

The meeting with Jesus in the clouds, as He descends from heaven as described in 1 Thess 4:15-17, happens as those who remain alive then, are gathered in a transportation similar to what happened to Philip. Acts 8:39, Matthew 24:31

There is no transformation into immortality then, as that is only given to those whose names are in the Book of Life, which isn't opened until after the Millennium.

 

[jgr]

A review of my post #148 in the translation history of 2 Thess.2, reveals some sadly misguided soul(s) altered the meaning of verse 3, to make it better fit their present day belief system.

Debunked innumerable times by innumerable sources including a host of your own compatriots. Apostasia as rapture was first seen in 1895. It is modernist heterodoxy at variance with over 1800 years of true Church orthodoxy.

The Church Fathers did not know as much as devoutly astute Bible theologians know today.

The Church Fathers, in close chronological proximity to the sources of the true faith delivered once for all to the saints (Jude 3), knew far more than today's cultic modernists. It is the Fathers' historical faith, testimony, and sacrifice which are the bulwarks against complete prophetic doctrinal apostasy in this day and age. They will never be extinguished.

 

[seventysevens]

God has angels to serve Him in heaven, we have work to do for Him here.

There are born again saints there now and No scripture says that raptured saints will not go there as well- just your derided adulterated opinion that has no merit
what work will the 144000 Jews be doing that is so different from what we are doing now that requires only the 144000 to receive a special seal to protect them and no one else

The dream of a 'rapture to heaven' is just a fable, such as Paul tells us will be prevalent in the end times. 2 Timothy 4:3-4
Why believe it? Why think you can avoid the trials and testing to come"

Again your derided adulterated opinion that has no merit
Scripture declares that saints will come with Jesus and the angels From heaven at the second advent and Jesus himself says it outright

The meeting with Jesus in the clouds, as He descends from heaven as described in 1 Thess 4:15-17, happens as those who remain alive then, are gathered in a transportation similar to what happened to Philip. Acts 8:39, Matthew 24:31

You have no understanding of what happens or why it happens again due to your derided adulterated opinion that has no merit

There is no transformation into immortality then, as that is only given to those whose names are in the Book of Life, which isn't opened until after the Millennium.

So your derided adulterated opinion that has no merit
is saying that Jesus will suddenly snatch his bride from earth for no reason and return them the same as they were before the rapture ? And you cannot see how ridiculous that is to say such a thing ?
That shows you have no understanding of any of it

 

[seventysevens]

Ok , Since the scripture tells us that that we receive our incorruptible bodies that can receive the Kingdom of God in a split-second as in the twinkling of the eye - Jesus could make that happen while we stand on earth
As such there is no requirement for people to be removed from earth to make that happen

There are more reasons than just receiving our incorruptible bodies for being snatched away from earth to the clouds - and those reasons are what you are denying

Paul describes the reason below.

1Co 15:49 And as we have borne the image of the man of dust, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly Man.

1Co 15:50 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; nor does corruption inherit incorruption.

1Co 15:51 Behold, I tell you a mystery: We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed—

1Co 15:52 in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.

1Co 15:53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.

1Co 15:54 So when this corruptible has put on incorruption, and this mortal has put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written: "DEATH IS SWALLOWED UP IN VICTORY."

Our corruptible flesh body will be transformed into an incorruptible body like his.

Normal flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God.

.

 

[BABerean2]

Ok , Since the scripture tells us that that we receive our incorruptible bodies that can receive the Kingdom of God in a split-second as in the twinkling of the eye - Jesus could make that happen while we stand on earth
As such there is no requirement for people to be removed from earth to make that happen

There are more reasons than just receiving our incorruptible bodies for being snatched away from earth to the clouds - and those reasons are what you are denying

We are being removed from the earth, because based on 2 Peter 3:10-13, and Galatians 4:26, and 2 Peter 3:10-13, and Hebrews 10:16-18, and Hebrews 12:22-24, this earth is not our future home.

We are being removed from the earth, because He is going to destroy this rotten, sin-cursed world and bring in the New Heavens and the New Earth, when He returns in "flaming fire".
(2 Thessalonians 1:7-10)

This is what you are denying.

You would rather believe that Christ will be ruling over a world where sin and death remain for 1,000 years after His return.
Apparently, you believe the Son of God, who defeated sin and death at Calvary, will be conducting funeral services for dead mortals during a future time...

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[BABerean2]

A review of my post #148 in the translation history of 2 Thess.2, reveals some sadly misguided soul(s) altered the meaning of verse 3, to make it better fit their present day belief system.

Those "sadly misguided soul(s) would be Dr. Thomas Ice and others who altered the meaning of the passage in an attempt to make John Nelson Darby's pretrib doctrine work.

Author Tim LaHaye’s fictional books and movies known as the “Left Behind” series have convinced millions of modern Christians that the Pretrib doctrine is scriptural.
Look at his quote below and consider carefully which viewpoint is the oldest.


"It may come as a surprise to most pre-Trib prophecy students that the

post-Trib position (in its primitive form) is the oldest point of view."


Tim LaHaye, "Rapture Under Attack", page 197,

Multnomath Publishers, Inc., 1998

Since the oldest viewpoint is that taught by the Apostles of Christ, I will have to go with that version.
It appears that "common sense" is not that common during modern times.

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[Quasar92]

Debunked innumerable times by innumerable sources including a host of your own compatriots. Apostasia as rapture was first seen in 1895. It is modernist heterodoxy at variance with over 1800 years of true Church orthodoxy.



The Church Fathers, in close chronological proximity to the sources of the true faith delivered once for all to the saints (Jude 3), knew far more than today's cultic modernists. It is the Fathers' historical faith, testimony, and sacrifice which are the bulwarks against complete prophetic doctrinal apostasy in this day and age. They will never be extinguished.

Your position is completely wrecked when you are asked to explain how the Church got into heaven for the Marriage to the Lamb, in Rev.19:7-8, and is then seen returning from heaven with Jesus, in His second coming to the earth, in verse 14.

Cut out your arguing, because you have none!


Quasar92

 

[BABerean2]

Your position is completely wrecked when you are asked to explain how the Church got into heaven for the Marriage to the Lamb, in Rev.19:7-8, and is then seen returning from heaven with Jesus, in His second coming to the earth, in verse 14.

It is because there are thousands upon thousands, or millions of the members of the Body of Christ in heaven now, with Christ.

It began with the thief on the Cross, and continues to this day.
Some of the Brothers and Sisters that I have known are there now.
Christ will bring their souls back with Him, when He returns.
I look forward to seeing them again.

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[Quasar92]

It is because there are thousands upon thousands, or millions of the members of the Body of Christ in heaven now, with Christ.

It began with the thief on the Cross, and continues to this day.
Some of the Brothers and Sisters that I have known are there now.
Christ will bring their souls back with Him, when He returns.
I look forward to seeing them again.

.

Indeed! And every person in heaven now, who belong to Jesus, have arrived there preceeding the coming tribulation. In addition, all believers left on earth alive at Jesus return for them, in Jn.14:2-3, 28 and 1 Thess.4:16, will all meet Jesus in the sky, from where He will take them to heaven, according to 2 Thess.2:3 and 7-8, before the tribulation begins, for their marriage in heaven, in Rev.19:7-8. From where Jesus will return in His second coming, in Rev.19:14, WITH HIS CHURCH He gathers to Himself in the sky, seven years before, as previously recorded above! You have no argument whatever!


Quasar92

 

[jgr]

Your position is completely wrecked when you are asked to explain how the Church got into heaven for the Marriage to the Lamb, in Rev.19:7-8, and is then seen returning from heaven with Jesus, in His second coming to the earth, in verse 14.

Cut out your arguing, because you have none!


Quasar92

No need for me to argue anything. I let the historical true Christian Church, Darby, Scofield, Walvoord, and fifty contemporary English Bible version translators do the arguing for me.

They all do a most effective job.

 

[seventysevens]

I let Darby, Scofield, Walvoord, and fifty contemporary English Bible version translators do the arguing for me.They all do a most effective job.

They support the pre trib rapture of the Church

 

[jgr]

They support the pre trib rapture of the Church

Not in 2 Thess. 2:3 they don't.

 

[seventysevens]

Not in 2 Thess. 2:3 they don't.

Well whatever - I don't know much about the details they teach , I not read their stuff , but they are most popular for teaching the rapture happens before the Great Tribulation begins-
Before the GT begins is Pre trib

 

[BABerean2]

He gathers to Himself in the sky, seven years before, as previously recorded above! You have no argument whatever!

Rev 12:11 And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death.

A person cannot be under the blood of the Lamb and not be a member of the New Covenant Church of Jesus Christ, in the verse above.

The New Covenant has made the Old Covenant "obsolete" in Hebrews 8:13.

The New Covenant has been fulfilled by Christ and has ended all sacrifices for sin in Hebrews 10:16-18.

The New Covenant is "everlasting" in Hebrews 13:20.

Therefore, the claim that the "Church Age" comes to an end 7 years before the Second Coming of Christ is error.

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[seventysevens]

I believe the Truth of Gods Word - you reject it in favor of a doctrine that makes no sense whatsoever
When Jesus returns he casts satan into the abyss for 1000 years The reason us so that mankind can experience what it is like under Jesus rule and reign WITHOUT interference from satan - which has Not yet happened - then after 1000 years satan is loosed to deceive who he can - Then satan and all those he has deceived are destroyed by fire coming down from heaven -ALL this scripture you deny in place of a fable you believe in
You are in for a major surprise coming soon

We are being removed from the earth, because based on 2 Peter 3:10-13, and Galatians 4:26, and 2 Peter 3:10-13, and Hebrews 10:16-18, and Hebrews 12:22-24, this earth is not our future home.

We are being removed from the earth, because He is going to destroy this rotten, sin-cursed world and bring in the New Heavens and the New Earth, when He returns in "flaming fire".
(2 Thessalonians 1:7-10)

This is what you are denying.

You would rather believe that Christ will be ruling over a world where sin and death remain for 1,000 years after His return.
Apparently, you believe the Son of God, who defeated sin and death at Calvary, will be conducting funeral services for dead mortals during a future time...

.

 

[BABerean2]

I believe the Truth of Gods Word - you reject it in favor of a doctrine that makes no sense whatsoever
When Jesus returns he casts satan into the abyss for 1000 years The reason us so that mankind can experience what it is like under Jesus rule and reign WITHOUT interference from satan - which has Not yet happened - then after 1000 years satan is loosed to deceive who he can - Then satan and all those he has deceived are destroyed by fire coming down from heaven -ALL this scripture you deny in place of a fable you believe in
You are in for a major surprise coming soon

Rev 12:11 And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death.
Rev 12:12 Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them. Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time.


Rev_3:12 Him that overcometh will I make a pillar in the temple of my God, and he shall go no more out: and I will write upon him the name of my God, and the name of the city of my God, which is new Jerusalem, which cometh down out of heaven from my God: and I will write upon him my new name.

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[seventysevens]

You prove nothing as you have shown you do not understand the point - the purpose or the reason that there will be a Great trib to begin with 0 but since you deny Jesus will reign on earth you have shown there is not much about it that you understand

Rev 12:11 And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death.
Rev 12:12 Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them. Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time.


Rev_3:12 Him that overcometh will I make a pillar in the temple of my God, and he shall go no more out: and I will write upon him the name of my God, and the name of the city of my God, which is new Jerusalem, which cometh down out of heaven from my God: and I will write upon him my new name.

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