The Rapture

He put me back together · Sep 24, 2003

Let's not confuse the catching away of the saints with the second coming of Christ. If we are to believe that the saints will be caught away before the great Tribulation, we should understand that THIS IS NOT THE SECOND COMING. The second coming is after the Great Tribulation, after all of the trumpets have sounded, when Christ returns to rule the earth and judge the nations.

Blessings

R.E.Taet · Sep 24, 2003

Yes, and 2 Thess 2:1-4 says that

"our gathering together to Him,"

will not happen until

"the apostasy comes first"

and

"the man of lawlessness is revealed"

These are also the qualifications for "the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ"

A Brethren IN CHRIST · Sep 25, 2003

2 thes 2:3 Let no man decieve you by any means: for that day shall not come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the , the son of perdition.

verses please

R.E.Taet · Sep 25, 2003

The verses:

2 Thess 2:1 Now we request you, brethren, with regard to the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our gathering together to Him,
2 Thess 2:2 that you not be quickly shaken from your composure or be disturbed either by a spirit or a message or a letter as if from us, to the effect that the day of the Lord has come.
2 Thess 2:3 Let no one in any way deceive you, for {it will not come} unless the apostasy comes first, and the man of lawlessness is revealed, the son of destruction,
2 Thess 2:4 who opposes and exalts himself above every so-called god or object of worship, so that he takes his seat in the temple of God, displaying himself as being God.

[my bold]

R.E.Taet · Sep 27, 2003

Does not the Rapture end times theory teach that the anti-Christ is a post Rapture thing?

These verses seem to suggest that "the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our gathering together with Him" will happen at the same time - after the anti Christ and the apostasy.

This is why I do not believe the PreTrib rapture theory to be biblical.

A Brethren IN CHRIST · Sep 27, 2003

R.E.Taet said:
The verses:

2 Thess 2:1 Now we request you, brethren, with regard to the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our gathering together to Him,
2 Thess 2:2 that you not be quickly shaken from your composure or be disturbed either by a spirit or a message or a letter as if from us, to the effect that the day of the Lord has come.
2 Thess 2:3 Let no one in any way deceive you, for {it will not come} unless the apostasy comes first, and the man of lawlessness is revealed, the son of destruction,
2 Thess 2:4 who opposes and exalts himself above every so-called god or object of worship, so that he takes his seat in the temple of God, displaying himself as being God.

[my bold]

apostasy = Rapture then after that the Beast is revealed

1 thes 4:16-18 rapture
1 thes 5:3 after rapture....peace and safty for 3.5 years but disease is wide spread[Seals] then sudden destruction cometh upon them[tribulation unbelievers] [thunders and vials not in succention]

Romans 5:9....we shall be saved from wrath through him[eph 4:6 personel..lives inside of us]

and since we are in Christ and Christ is inside of us ..........
why would Christ send wrath toward himself? is that possible?

R.E.Taet · Sep 27, 2003

apostasy = Rapture then after that the Beast is revealed

(maybe I misunderstood what you said but...)

apostasy = apostasia ap-os-tas-ee'-ah
Feminine of the same as G647; defection from truth (properly the state), ("apostasy"): - falling away, forsake.

(my bold)

...the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our gathering together to Him,... ...{it will not come} unless the apostasy comes first, and the man of lawlessness is revealed,...

(my bold)

A Brethren IN CHRIST · Sep 28, 2003

????????

RaptureTicketHolder · Sep 28, 2003

Hey folks.

I have put together a very interesting way to study this issue. Following you will find an outline of what the Bible mentions will happen. Look in your Bible in Daniel, Matthew, and Revelation (maybe one or two other places) and see if you can find the outline bullets. I took everything listed in it from the Bible, but while doing it I left out the scripture references. I shoulda put them in - but as it turns out the outline becomes a challenge to get to endtimes prophacy found strictly in the Bible.

Go on, give it a try. It will also help you w/your Bible usage!

Sending Kind Regards,

RTH

Would you know Revelation if it struck? Maybe this will help.

"For GOD so loved the world that HE gave HIS only begotten SON that whosoever believes in HIM shall not parish but have everlasting life."

John 3:16

Maybe, for your taste, believing in this right now is not enough for you to make a commitment to a Christian life.

"That if you confess with your mouth Jesus as Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you shall be saved." Romans 10:9

Eventually, the choice to accept Christ will be yours to make, if its while you are reading this now, or sometime in the near future.

"Jesus answered and said to him "Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God." John 3:3

Soon enough though, if not already, denial will harden your heart to this message and your time for selection will pass.

Someday you will most likely need the following handy timeline guide for what the Bible says the future holds.

It may mean nothing to you now, but in the future, your memory will serve you well, and when you least expect it.

Bible prophecy lays out our future almost as if it were a movie script. Whats nice about it, is the prep time given before the final acts.

Are you in prep for this role?

"Blessed is he who reads and those who hear the words of the prophecy, and heed the things which are written in it; for the time is near." Revelation 1:3

*please note: for this study, the Rapture remains the mystery of the Lord, left in His hands to decide when.

PRESENT DAY EVENTS

I. Birth pangs (resurrection to present - not in any particular order)
a) Wars, rumors of wars
b) Famines, pestilences, earthquakes
c) Persecution
d) False prophecy, iniquity, hatred
e) Christ's gospel shared EVERYWHERE
f) Israeli Nation restored

FUTURE TO BEHOLD

II. Worldwide Peace Treaty (future)
a) The Great Falling Away (Many Christians loose faith)
b) ONE leader emerges (anti-Christ)
c) ONE worldwide rule takes over

III. 7 yr Tribulation Begins with Treaty
a) Jewish Temple rebuild begins
b) OT Temple animal sacrifices begin
c) 7 Seal Judgments begin
1. Conquering Power (white horse)
2. Worldwide War (red horse)
3. Worldwide Famine (black horse)
4. Death-1/4 World (pale horse)
5. Heavens martyrs seek revenge
d) New Jewish temple defiled
1. Unholy Temple use by Anti-Christ
2. Temple sacrifices stopped
3. 2 heavenly evangelists appear
e) Seal Judgments continue
(c:6). Earthly Catastrophes
a. Great Earthquake
b. Sun blackened
c. Moon reddened
d. Starlight removed
(c:7). Seal opened exposing 7 Trumpet Judgments
a. Heaven silent for a time
b. Saints prayers offered again in Heaven
c. Great storms and another earthquake given to Earth
f) Trumpet Judgments
1. Hail and fire storm mixed with blood shower Earth
a. 1/3 of Earths trees destroyed
b. All green grass destroyed
2. Mountainous blood plague reaches Earth
a. 1/3 of Earths seas turn to blood
b. 1/3 sea life dies
c. 1/3 of Earths shipping fleet destroyed
3. Space debris (comet or star) fall to Earth named Wormwood
a. 1/3 of Earths streams/rivers tainted with poison from wormwood
b. Many people die from poison in water
4. Skylight deminished
a. 1/3 Sunshine reduction
b. 1/3 Starlight reduction
c. 24 hour timeframe shortened

III . Great Tribulation Begins, last half of 7 yr peace treaty
a) Worldwide religious leader introduced (false prophet)
1. Religious freedom no longer exists one world religion in place
2. Mark of Loyalty starts new barter system
3. Worship of Anti-Christ begins
4. System dissidents sought and put to death
b) Trumpet Judgments continued
(II:F:5) Considered 1st woe: Locus plague attacks Mark of Loyalty holders
a. 5 month Locus sting illness given to Mark holders
b. Death in any fashion denied during this time
(II:F:6) Considered 2nd woe: 1/3 of worlds Mark holders die by fire, smoke and brimstone
a. 2 heavenly evangelists killed
1). Bodies lie in death for 3 ½ days, then are called into heaven
b. Huge earthquake takes place, 7000 die
(II:F:7) Considered 3rd woe: Opening of 7 final bowl judgments
c) Bowl Judgments
1. Mark holders plagued with skin sores
2. Sea turns to blood again, everything in it dies this time
3. Rivers and streams turn to blood again
4. Sunshine overpowers Earth, men/earth burned crispy
5. All light removed from the Earth
6. Euphrates river dries up
a. False prophet and followers perform miracles to deceive.
b. Preparations are made for massive battle at Armageddon with anti-Christ dissidents
7. GODs wrath is finished with massive earthquake
a. Great cities fall into destruction
b. Islands and mountains disappear

IV. Final Judgments
a) Satan, anti-Christ, false prophet cast into bottomless pit for 1000 yr sentence
b) Sheep/Goat Judgement
c) 1000 year Reign of Christ on Earth
d) Satan released for a bit more havic
e) Great White Throne Judgement
f) Lake of Fire new home for Hell and Satan, forever
g) New Heaven/Earth for eternity

Prepare yourself properly and all will be well in the Lord!

edited for layout.

R.E.Taet · Sep 28, 2003

I am not sure where we are disagreeing, but 2 Thess. 2:1-4 says

...the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our gathering together to Him,... ...{it will not come} unless the apostasy comes first, and the man of lawlessness is revealed,...

Which means that the rapture will not happen until after the apostasy and the antiChirst comes.

A Brethren IN CHRIST · Sep 28, 2003

Antichrist are already here

The Beast is ready to go as soon as the H.S. leaves the earth...

what that means is that Satan does not know when the H.S. will leave just when the last believer that The Father has chosen to be in Christ is put there....

So this person that will be impowered by Satan has to be ready at all times...

We are taken out and Satan reacts not vice versa

RaptureTicketHolder · Sep 28, 2003

Thats interesting ABIC... do you have scripture support for your thoughts?

A Brethren IN CHRIST · Sep 28, 2003

1thes 4:13-18
1 thes 5:1-9
2 thes 2:1-12

add in the verse ....no one nows the day or hour of the rapture

cougan · Sep 28, 2003

Here I wrote a article on this topic. I hope this helps.

http://www.ardmoreweb.com/christ/rapture.html

R.E.Taet · Sep 29, 2003

Antichrist are already here

2 Thess. 2:1-4 seems to mention a specific anti-Chirst.

"who opposes and exalts himself above every so-called god or object of worship, so that he takes his seat in the temple of God, displaying himself as being God."

So would you say that this has happened?
Would you say that the Apostasy has already happened?

If you say yes to both of them, them you would be in accordance with 2 Thess. 2:1-4. As these two must happen before any gathering together does.

...the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our gathering together to Him,... ...{it will not come} unless the apostasy comes first, and the man of lawlessness is revealed,...

wwjd? · Sep 29, 2003

ummmm
there is no such thing as the rapture

R.E.Taet · Sep 29, 2003

I understand the rapture to be our gathering together to God, the time when we meet Jesus in the sky.

The debate is when that will happen, Pre, Mid, or Post Tribulation.

A Brethren IN CHRIST · Sep 29, 2003

R.E.Taet said:
2 Thess. 2:1-4 seems to mention a specific anti-Chirst.

"who opposes and exalts himself above every so-called god or object of worship, so that he takes his seat in the temple of God, displaying himself as being God."

So would you say that this has happened?
Would you say that the Apostasy has already happened?

If you say yes to both of them, them you would be in accordance with 2 Thess. 2:1-4. As these two must happen before any gathering together does.

...the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our gathering together to Him,... ...{it will not come} unless the apostasy comes first, and the man of lawlessness is revealed,...

Where does it say antichrist?

In Revelation 19:19 And the Beast was taken and with the false prophet that wrought miracles before him......

do you see any antichrist ? I do not

R.E.Taet · Sep 29, 2003

I am talking in the context of the Tim L. "Left Behind" books. (sorry, I guess I have caused confusion)

In his books the antiChrist described that way.

Do you think that the man fitting that description is part of the tribulation? 2 Thess says that our gathering together with God will happened after this guy. So would guess that you do not think that the "man of lawlessness is revealed, the son of destruction, who opposes and exalts himself above every so-called god or object of worship, so that he takes his seat in the temple of God, displaying himself as being God." will be part of the tribulation, but will be pre tribulation.

A Brethren IN CHRIST · Sep 29, 2003

Rapture happens then the Beast comes into play but after the rapture

reason we do not know what time,day or year that he comes for us....but we do know that it is before the tribulation

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