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The Rapture

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Godzman

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xtxArchxAngelxtx said:
Believers alive and dead meet Christ in the clouds Romans 5:9,

Yeah there we go. I was thinking that was the second coming. I forgot about the fact that Christ coems back after the trib... I always looked at it as a 3rd coming. hehehe oops?


thats all right many still believe it is the same thing, Catholics teach that there is no rapture they believe Christs reign is right now I do believe, but it is supposed to be a reign of peace, and well just watch the news.
 
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Thanks all, this is what I was looking for when I started this thread...I would be interested in hearing what biblical reasons are given for those who do not think it happens this way. I will look at the Bible and compare the verses given in the above posts when I get off of work and see what God says. Thanks Again All.
-Matt
 
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Angel4Truth

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The rapture is when Christ calls His bride to His Fathers House to "hide" them and remove them from the time of tribulation that will come upon the earth . Its the end of the "church age" and world focus will shift back to Israel. The 7 year tribulation is called such from a prophecy in Daniel , its the time of "Jacobs" trouble (Jacob isnt the church- its Israel) The bible says they will be overrun till of time of "gentiles" be fulfilled , thats the church age .

Christ references the church as being a bride waiting for her groom to return througout His teachings he parallels the wedding and wedding feast . Lets look at the hebrew wedding ceremony for more clarification and remember that Christ was speaking directly to the jews who would have understood this symbolism perfectly :

The Hebrew wedding ceremony
When a young Jew male comes to the house of a prospective bride and meets with the father of the bride. They negotiate a price. If the father accepts the offer, the young couple drink a benediction which the father offers of wine. The couple are married in Spirit. The groom goes away to prepare a place but the bride doesn't know when He'll return. He has gone back to his fathers house to prepare a place for her. When he comes back it is usually at night with a shout "make way for the bride groom cometh" and the sound of the trump. He does not enter the house but waits in the street, the bride and her brides maids come out and the friends of the groom surround them and go back to his fathers house. He and her enter the Hoppa they consummate the marriage physically. He rejoins the celebration and she remains protected, hidden... in the hoppa for seven days.

Christ said He went away to prepare a place for us - he also spoke about the groom calling out to the bride to come join Him , this is what He will be doing when He calls us up into the clouds shown here :
1 Thessalonians 4:16-17
For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first.
Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And thus we shall always be with the Lord. "

Remember Christ also bought us with a price and sealed the covenant with His Holy Spirit . We await for our groom. We will be removed before Daniels 70th week , the time of Jacobs trouble , the time of trial to come upon the earth , then we will return with Christ at the second coming at the end of the tribulation just like it says He will be accompanied by the saints in revelation.

Would the groom drag the bride through the mud before the wedding? Certainly not . Here is another clue : Luke 21:36 Watch ye therefore, and pray always, that ye may be accounted worthy to escape all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of man.

What are we to escape? Revelation 3
10Because you have kept My command to persevere, I also will keep you from the hour of trial which shall come upon the whole world, to test those who dwell on the earth.

Notice at the end of chapter 3 the church is mentioned no more . Focus shifts to non believing Israel once again .

Daniels 69th week ended when the church age started (with Christs death and resurection) and it will end when time of the gentiles has been fulfilled focus with then begin again on daniels 70 week prophecy with the begining of Daniels 70th week. Back to Israel . Gods last call to His wife to repent and come back to Him . This is why I believe that there will be 144,000 jews sealed by God to preach the word - the church wont be here to do it .

Another clue the church wont be here : 2 Thessalonians 2
6And now you know what is restraining, that he may be revealed in his own time. 7For the mystery of lawlessness is already at work; only He who now restrains will do so until He is taken out of the way. 8And then the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord will consume with the breath of His mouth and destroy with the brightness of His coming.

He who now restrains in my opinion is the Holy Spirits residency in the church - its what holds back the full force of satans evil - notice it says once its removed the lawless one (antichrist) will be revealed .

You can also consider that it is written the gates of hell wont prevail against the church , yet in revelation it says that satan will be given the power to OVERCOME the saints - hows that? Because the church wont be here , its the tribulation saints that will be overcome and killed for their faith because the restraining power of the Spirit in the church will not longer be present .

Now does this mean no one can be saved or will have the Spirit? No , people had the Spirit in the Old testament too , just not RESIDENT like the church has. This shows that : 22 For false Christs and false prophets shall rise, and shall shew signs and wonders, to seduce, if it were possible, even the elect.

Since the church wont be here , it wont be possible to deceive them with the lie that will come upon the whole world :
2 Thessalonians 2
11And for this reason God will send them strong delusion, that they should believe the lie, 12that they all may be condemned who did not believe the truth but had pleasure in unrighteousness.

I know this was a long post and i could add a ton more , but I hope this gives you a good overveiw .
 
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xtxArchxAngelxtx

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it's not a matter of not beleiveing, it's about beleiving certain aspets of it, certain details, post trib, mid trib, pre trib, linear timeline, random(no time line), metaphorical descriptions, literal descriptions....

These all deal with the rapture.
 
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Force

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xtxArchxAngelxtx said:
it's not a matter of not beleiveing, it's about beleiving certain aspets of it, certain details, post trib, mid trib, pre trib, linear timeline, random(no time line), metaphorical descriptions, literal descriptions....

These all deal with the rapture.
I am simply stating this would be better suited in the Eschatology forum rather than Liberal Theology.

All Christians believe in the rapture, maybe not when it will happen but that it will happen for sure.
 
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Force said:
Because I don't know any true christian faith that doesnt believe in it.
I don't believe in this...are you saying that my faith isn't Christian? I believe what the Bible teaches and what the Bible says...I would say that anything outside of the Bible isn't Christian. Sounds like there's more here to debate then we thought :)
 
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Force

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doctorboy said:
I don't believe in this...are you saying that my faith isn't Christian? I believe what the Bible teaches and what the Bible says...I would say that anything outside of the Bible isn't Christian. Sounds like there's more here to debate then we thought :)
Hey Doctoryboy,
smile.gif


Yes I would seriously have to wonder about "your branch" of christianity.
Which would be what by the way?

And are you saying that you don't believe in just the rapture? or all of the end times? or just some, or what?
 
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F

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Angel4Truth said:
The rapture is when Christ calls His bride to His Fathers House to "hide" them and remove them from the time of tribulation that will come upon the earth . Its the end of the "church age" and world focus will shift back to Israel. The 7 year tribulation is called such from a prophecy in Daniel , its the time of "Jacobs" trouble (Jacob isnt the church- its Israel) The bible says they will be overrun till of time of "gentiles" be fulfilled , thats the church age .

Christ references the church as being a bride waiting for her groom to return througout His teachings he parallels the wedding and wedding feast . Lets look at the hebrew wedding ceremony for more clarification and remember that Christ was speaking directly to the jews who would have understood this symbolism perfectly :

The Hebrew wedding ceremony
When a young Jew male comes to the house of a prospective bride and meets with the father of the bride. They negotiate a price. If the father accepts the offer, the young couple drink a benediction which the father offers of wine. The couple are married in Spirit. The groom goes away to prepare a place but the bride doesn't know when He'll return. He has gone back to his fathers house to prepare a place for her. When he comes back it is usually at night with a shout "make way for the bride groom cometh" and the sound of the trump. He does not enter the house but waits in the street, the bride and her brides maids come out and the friends of the groom surround them and go back to his fathers house. He and her enter the Hoppa they consummate the marriage physically. He rejoins the celebration and she remains protected, hidden... in the hoppa for seven days.

Christ said He went away to prepare a place for us - he also spoke about the groom calling out to the bride to come join Him , this is what He will be doing when He calls us up into the clouds shown here :
1 Thessalonians 4:16-17
For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first.
Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And thus we shall always be with the Lord. "

Just a quick question. Who will meet the Lord in the air . . . all Christians . . . or just some Christians? Please point out any specific passages that you use to answer this question. Thanks

Remember Christ also bought us with a price and sealed the covenant with His Holy Spirit . We await for our groom. We will be removed before Daniels 70th week , the time of Jacobs trouble , the time of trial to come upon the earth , then we will return with Christ at the second coming at the end of the tribulation just like it says He will be accompanied by the saints in revelation.

Would the groom drag the bride through the mud before the wedding? Certainly not . Here is another clue : Luke 21:36 Watch ye therefore, and pray always, that ye may be accounted worthy to escape all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of man.

What are we to escape? Revelation 3
10Because you have kept My command to persevere, I also will keep you from the hour of trial which shall come upon the whole world, to test those who dwell on the earth.

Notice at the end of chapter 3 the church is mentioned no more . Focus shifts to non believing Israel once again .

Daniels 69th week ended when the church age started (with Christs death and resurection) and it will end when time of the gentiles has been fulfilled focus with then begin again on daniels 70 week prophecy with the begining of Daniels 70th week. Back to Israel . Gods last call to His wife to repent and come back to Him . This is why I believe that there will be 144,000 jews sealed by God to preach the word - the church wont be here to do it .

Another clue the church wont be here : 2 Thessalonians 2
6And now you know what is restraining, that he may be revealed in his own time. 7For the mystery of lawlessness is already at work; only He who now restrains will do so until He is taken out of the way. 8And then the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord will consume with the breath of His mouth and destroy with the brightness of His coming.

He who now restrains in my opinion is the Holy Spirits residency in the church - its what holds back the full force of satans evil - notice it says once its removed the lawless one (antichrist) will be revealed .

You can also consider that it is written the gates of hell wont prevail against the church , yet in revelation it says that satan will be given the power to OVERCOME the saints - hows that? Because the church wont be here , its the tribulation saints that will be overcome and killed for their faith because the restraining power of the Spirit in the church will not longer be present .

Now does this mean no one can be saved or will have the Spirit? No , people had the Spirit in the Old testament too , just not RESIDENT like the church has. This shows that : 22 For false Christs and false prophets shall rise, and shall shew signs and wonders, to seduce, if it were possible, even the elect.

Since the church wont be here , it wont be possible to deceive them with the lie that will come upon the whole world :
2 Thessalonians 2
11And for this reason God will send them strong delusion, that they should believe the lie, 12that they all may be condemned who did not believe the truth but had pleasure in unrighteousness.

I know this was a long post and i could add a ton more , but I hope this gives you a good overveiw .
 
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JeffreyLloyd

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A Brethren IN CHRIST said:
...

1st coming
Jesus on earth and died for sins

Rapture
Believers alive and dead meet Christ in the clouds Romans 5:9,
1 thes 4:16-17 trumpt of God, 1 cor 15:51-53 last trup of God
Christ never touches earth..1 thes 5:1-15

tribulation begins rev 4-19

2nd coming starts in Rev 19:11


As some one who doesn't beleive in the rapture, I'll add my .02 cents.

"The rapture doctrine in particular will actually set up believers for the Antichrist's deception if they should be alive on earth at the close of the age. Imagine your situation if the Antichrist should actually come to power, but you were convinced that you would be snatched out of the world before God would allow such a thing to happen. In that case, you would refuse to recognize the Antichrist for what he was. Your misguided [rapture] dicrine would blind you to is identity." - Paul Thigpen's The Rapture Trap, Page 184

I have always wondered why so many Christians could fall for the Antichrist's deception, when the Bible tells his M.O.

But if some Christians believed the Rapture hadn't happened yet, could be easily fooled. Something to think about...
 
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JeffreyLloyd said:
As some one who doesn't beleive in the rapture, I'll add my .02 cents.

"The rapture doctrine in particular will actually set up believers for the Antichrist's deception if they should be alive on earth at the close of the age. Imagine your situation if the Antichrist should actually come to power, but you were convinced that you would be snatched out of the world before God would allow such a thing to happen. In that case, you would refuse to recognize the Antichrist for what he was. Your misguided [rapture] dicrine would blind you to is identity." - Paul Thigpen's The Rapture Trap, Page 184

I have always wondered why so many Christians could fall for the Antichrist's deception, when the Bible tells his M.O.

But if some Christians believed the Rapture hadn't happened yet, could be easily fooled. Something to think about...
1THES 5:1-13 HAVE YOU READ THIS ?? DO YOU UNDERSTAND OR JUST BLINDED? OR

rOMANS 5:9

2 THES 1:3-7
1 THES 1:10
EXEK 20:37 TALKING ABOUT JEWS DURING THE TRIBULATION EVEN THOUGH THERE THEY WILL NOT RECIEVE WRATH
 
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1st coming Jesus on earth and died for sins [b said:
jESUS COMES TO GIVE SAVALVATION[/b]

Rapture
Believers alive and dead meet Christ in the clouds....REASON WHY Romans 5:9,
1 thes 4:16-17 trumpt of God, 1 cor 15:51-53 last truMp of God
Christ never touches earth..1 thes 5:1-15

tribulation begins rev 4-19 TRUMPET FROM ANGELS NOT GOD

2nd coming starts in Rev 19:11 cHRIST COMES FOR JUDGEMENT
 
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