The Rapture

[A Brethren IN CHRIST]

I believe I am pretty clear on the rapture , the trib and the second coming. But what still confuses me is the 1,000 reign. What happens to Satan after that and what about the pleople that still don't believe in Jesus at that time?

Rev 20:1-6 beginning of 1000 yr

rev 20:6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection; on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priest of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years

Rev 20:7-9 satan shall gather people for a rebellion ...Who? the descendants of the first resurection

rev 20:10 satan cast into lake of fire and brimestone.....you can read it

 

[Angel4Truth]

RE taet - We are not appointed unto wrath because we have been saved . Does a groom drag the bride through the mud before the wedding? Here is the jewish wedding custom and maybe it will shed some light for you as to why the church wont be here since we are the bride of Christ - keep in mind though , that there will be people saved during the tribulation , but these are not the church and the reason God seals 144000 to preach the truth is because the church WONT BE HERE - daniels 70th week is the time of JACOBS trouble , its to bring a non believing israel back to God , its not for the church - the church age will be over (time of the gentiles ) here is the wedding custom:

The Hebrew wedding ceremony



When a young Jew male comes to the house of a prospective bride and meets with the father of the bride. They negotiate a price. If the father accepts the offer, the young couple drink a benediction which the father offers of wine. The couple are married in Spirit. The groom goes away to prepare a place but the bride doesn't know when He'll return. He has gone back to his fathers house to prepare a place for her. When he comes back it is usually at night with a shout "make way for the bride groom cometh" and the sound of the trump. He does not enter the house but waits in the street, the bride and her brides maids come out and the friends of the groom surround them and go back to his fathers house. He and her enter the Hoppa they consummate the marriage physically. He rejoins the celebration and she remains protected, hidden... in the hoppa for seven days.
What I just described is what Christ was referring to in John 14:4. John 14:1-6
"Let not your heart be troubled; you believe in God, Believe also in Me.
"In My Fathers house are many mansions (dwellings); if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you.
"And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again and receive you to Myself; that where I am, there you may be also.
"And where I go you know, and the way you know."
Thomas said to Him, "Lord, we do not know where You are going, and how can we know the way?"
Jesus said to him, "I am the way, the truth, and the life, No one comes to the Father except through Me.

 

[A Brethren IN CHRIST]

very good

take note RE taet

 

[Angel4Truth]

R A Teat: note this part : "He rejoins the celebration and she remains protected, hidden... in the hoppa for seven days. "
What is the tribulation? Daniels 70th week - how long is a week? 7 days . The church (bride) is hidden in heaven during the 7 year (which corresponds to daniels prohecy of weeks = years) tribulation meant to try those on the earth . We are not appointed to wrath . Here is another verse for reference : keep reading through the passage we are discussing , because it CANNOT be as you say unless you think this represents the church :2 Thess : 10 And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.
11 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:
12 That they all might be dammed who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.
Does the church have pleasure in unrighteousness? Did the church not believe the truth? This is those who remain that the tribulation will come upon , NOT the church , we wont be here .

 

[BarbB]

R A Teat: note this part : "He rejoins the celebration and she remains protected, hidden... in the hoppa for seven days. "
What is the tribulation? Daniels 70th week - how long is a week? 7 days . The church (bride) is hidden in heaven during the 7 year (which corresponds to daniels prohecy of weeks = years) tribulation meant to try those on the earth . We are not appointed to wrath . ...

Thanks, Angel - I never made the connection!

 

[Angel4Truth]

Going to see if i can draw a diagram on here -
Daniels 69th week ended when the church age began and focus shifted from Israel to the church .

This is called the time of the gentiles (church age) About Israel (the jews) , Christ says " Luke 21
24And they will fall by the edge of the sword, and be led away captive into all nations. And Jerusalem will be trampled by Gentiles until the times of the Gentiles are fulfilled."

We know that Jerusalem specifically the temple mount , is being trampled by gentiles to this day since the jews do not have control of the temple mount in jerusalem. We know that the time is close since Israel who was led captive to all nations has been returned as its own nation again since 1948 , and in 1967 , they regained control of jerusalem , but they still do not control the temple mount so its still "being trampled" by gentiles .

That will cease when Israel once again controls this area , which in my opinion will be after the rapture and a peace treaty has been put in place with israel and its neighbors. Anyway , after the rapture of the church (the time of gentiles) the focus will shift once again to Israel to call them back to God , hence the sealing of the 144,000 male jews 12,000 from each trible to witness in the absence of the church . IMHO the world will return to what it was like during the OT since the Spirit in the church is what holds back the force of satan and then the delusion will come upon the world . God who never forgot his people even stated that they would be temporally blinded , this is untill the time of gentiles has ceased , then God deals with non beleiving israel as it was in OT again , another reason for the rebult temple and sacrifice continuing once again. The presence of God right now is the indwelt spirit which is to be removed with the church (he who now retrains will do so untill he taken out of the way) . The jews will ultimately see their error and return to God . God will remove them to safety for the last part of the tribulation when his wrath pours out on those who refuse the truth after satan has declared himself to be God in the temple.

OT daniels 69th week ends -<<~~~Church Age~~~~~>>-daniels 70th week begins which is the tribulation or "time of Jacobs trouble" . Note , Jacob is the jews , not the church , which is not apointed to wrath .

 

[R.E.Taet]

"2Th 2:10 and with all deceit of unrighteousness for them that perish because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved. 2Th 2:11 And for this cause God sendeth them a working of error, that they should believe a lie: 2Th 2:12 that they all might be judged who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness. "

QUOTE
"Does the church have pleasure in unrighteousness? Did the church not believe the truth? This is those who remain that the tribulation will come upon , NOT the church , we wont be here ."
"keep in mind though , that there will be people saved during the tribulation"

All - the ones not having believed
Not All - The entire world, as you pointed out it couldn't be, since "there will be people saved during the tribulation." And I doubt they will have believed the lie, "so that they shall be judged.".


QUOTE
"you are hung up on " our gathering together" even though context is clearly the second coming of Christ , not the rapture - the day of the lord is Christs second coming , he will gather those who became christians during the tribulation and those with him who were already raptured to meet at armageddon and he will judge those who remian for not receiving the love of the truth ."

Mat 24:30 and then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
Mat 24:31 And he shall send forth his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

Mat 24:36 But of that day and hour knoweth no one, not even the angels of heaven, neither the Son, but the Father only.
Mat 24:37 And as were the days of Noah, so shall be the coming of the Son of man.
Mat 24:38 For as in those days which were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noah entered into the ark,
Mat 24:39 and they knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall be the coming of the Son of man.
Mat 24:40 Then shall two man be in the field; one is taken, and one is left:
Mat 24:41 two women shall be grinding at the mill; one is taken, and one is left.
Mat 24:42 Watch therefore: for ye know not on what day your Lord cometh.
This is the text from where Jesus talks about "the coming of the Son of man." and His gathering together of the elect, (like in 2 Thess 2:1-4, and it is in the order of 2 Thess 2:1-4, with the Lawless man first with the apostasy, then the gathering and Second Coming.)

Since this is not a reference to the Rapture, where are the verses that talk about the Elect disappearing and the unbelievers being left behind, all at one instant and before the tribulation?

 

[Angel4Truth]

Mat 24:30 and then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
Mat 24:31 And he shall send forth his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

Mat 24:36 But of that day and hour knoweth no one, not even the angels of heaven, neither the Son, but the Father only.
Mat 24:37 And as were the days of Noah, so shall be the coming of the Son of man.
Mat 24:38 For as in those days which were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noah entered into the ark,
Mat 24:39 and they knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall be the coming of the Son of man.
Mat 24:40 Then shall two man be in the field; one is taken, and one is left:
Mat 24:41 two women shall be grinding at the mill; one is taken, and one is left.
Mat 24:42 Watch therefore: for ye know not on what day your Lord cometh.
This is the text from where Jesus talks about "the coming of the Son of man." and His gathering together of the elect, (like in 2 Thess 2:1-4, and it is in the order of 2 Thess 2:1-4, with the Lawless man first with the apostasy, then the gathering and Second Coming.)

Those verses are not dealing with the second coming , they are dealing with the rapture , because if they were dealing with the second coming , we would know what day , because you would be able to count exactly 1290 days from the abomination of desolation to the return of Christ . Therefore it can only be talking about the Rapture , the unknown day is the rapture , the second coming is known , you are confusing the 2- again the tribulation is the time of JACOBS trouble , so unless you can show me how jacob means church , you have no claim

 

[R.E.Taet]

Mat 24:29 But immediately after the tribulation of those days the sun shall be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
Mat 24:30 and then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
Mat 24:31 And he shall send forth his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.
Mat 24:32 Now from the fig tree learn her parable: when her branch is now become tender, and putteth forth its leaves, ye know that the summer is nigh;
Mat 24:33 even so ye also, when ye see all these things, know ye that he is nigh, even at the doors.
Mat 24:34 Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass away, till all these things be accomplished.
Mat 24:35 Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away.
Mat 24:36 But of that day and hour knoweth no one, not even the angels of heaven, neither the Son, but the Father only.
Mat 24:37 And as were the days of Noah, so shall be the coming of the Son of man.
Mat 24:38 For as in those days which were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noah entered into the ark,
Mat 24:39 and they knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall be the coming of the Son of man.
Mat 24:40 Then shall two man be in the field; one is taken, and one is left:
Mat 24:41 two women shall be grinding at the mill; one is taken, and one is left.
Mat 24:42 Watch therefore: for ye know not on what day your Lord cometh.

"...the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our gathering together to Him,... ...{it will not come} unless the apostasy comes first, and the man of lawlessness is revealed,..." 2 Thess 2:1,3

"the coming of the Son of man. Then shall two man be in the field; one is taken, and one is left:"

"But of that day and hour," Mat 24:36 If "that day" does not refer to the "Son of man coming " from Mat 24:30 , to which day does it refer? This whole passage seems to be about one day, not two.


"Jer 30:7 Alas! for that day is great, so that none is like it: it is even the time of Jacob's trouble; but he shall be saved out of it."

This verse does not say that Christians will not be on the earth for the tribulation. It says that Israel will have trouble. Just becuase it does not say that Christians will not have trouble, it does not mean that the church will not be on earth.

 

[Angel4Truth]

"Jer 30:7 Alas! for that day is great, so that none is like it: it is even the time of Jacob's trouble; but he shall be saved out of it."

That verse is talking about the JEWS not the CHURCH - we are NOT apointed to wrath and there is NO CONDEMNATION to those in christ - condemnation means JUDGMENT , the tribulation is a time of JUDGMENT to those who live on the earth . We arent going to be here .

 

[A Brethren IN CHRIST]

QUOTE=R.E.Taet .... " 2Th 2:10 and with all deceit of unrighteousness for them that perish because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved. 2Th 2:11 And for this cause God sendeth them a working of error, that they should believe a lie: 2Th 2:12 that they all might be judged who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness. "

believe not the truth? what does that mean?
maybe .....romans 4:5, titus 3:5,2 tim 1:9..1 cor 15:2-4

QUOTE
"Does the church have pleasure in unrighteousness? Did the church not believe the truth? This is those who remain that the tribulation will come upon , NOT the church , we wont be here ."
"keep in mind though , that there will be people saved during the tribulation"

All - the ones not having believed
Not All - The entire world, as you pointed out it couldn't be, since "there will be people saved during the tribulation." And I doubt they will have believed the lie, "so that they shall be judged.".?????


QUOTE
"you are hung up on " our gathering together" even though context is clearly the second coming of Christ , not the rapture - the day of the lord is Christs second coming , he will gather those who became christians during the tribulation and those with him who were already raptured to meet at armageddon and he will judge those who remian for not receiving the love of the truth ."

Mat 24:30 and then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
Mat 24:31 And he shall send forth his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

Mat 24:36 But of that day and hour knoweth no one, not even the angels of heaven, neither the Son, but the Father only.
Mat 24:37 And as were the days of Noah, so shall be the coming of the Son of man.
Mat 24:38 For as in those days which were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noah entered into the ark,
Mat 24:39 and they knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall be the coming of the Son of man.
Mat 24:40 Then shall two man be in the field; one is taken, and one is left:
Mat 24:41 two women shall be grinding at the mill; one is taken, and one is left.
Mat 24:42 Watch therefore: for ye know not on what day your Lord cometh.
This is the text from where Jesus talks about "the coming of the Son of man." and His gathering together of the elect, (like in 2 Thess 2:1-4, and it is in the order of 2 Thess 2:1-4, with the Lawless man first with the apostasy, then the gathering and Second Coming.)

reason why mid trib and post trib do not work

Since this is not a reference to the Rapture, where are the verses that talk about the Elect disappearing and the unbelievers being left behind, all at one instant and before the tribulation?

So you do not believe that God can convience some humans to believe after the church is taken out? during the tribulation?

 

[R.E.Taet]

believe not the truth? what does that mean?

I was asked:
QUOTE
"Does the church have pleasure in unrighteousness? Did the church not believe the truth? This is those who remain that the tribulation will come upon , NOT the church , we wont be here ."

I took this to mean that she believes the church will could not be on the earth since those on the earth "had pleasure in unrighteousness." She also said that she believes that there will be people saved during the tribulation.

So I responded:
" 2Th 2:10 and with all deceit of unrighteousness for them that perish because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved. 2Th 2:11 And for this cause God sendeth them a working of error, that they should believe a lie: 2Th 2:12 that they all might be judged who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness. "

All - the ones not having believed
Not All - The entire world, as you pointed out it couldn't be, since "there will be people saved during the tribulation." And I doubt they will have believed the lie, "so that they shall be judged"

Explaination
Now if "all" meant, the entire world, what kind of saved person would fit the description "that they all might be judged who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness." and would believe a lie.

My point is that this cannot be refering to all people on earth, since there will be saved people on the earth during the tribulation. All refers to "them that perish," as in go to Hell. 2 Peter 3:9 uses the same word "perish" to describe going to Hell. If "all" meant all people on earth then there could be no saved people in the trib. I conclude that this passage does not mandate a pre-trib rapture.

I did not express myself very clearly, sorry for the confusion.

 

[A Brethren IN CHRIST]

Mat 24:30 and then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
Mat 24:31 And he shall send forth his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

Mat 24:36 But of that day and hour knoweth no one, not even the angels of heaven, neither the Son, but the Father only.
Mat 24:37 And as were the days of Noah, so shall be the coming of the Son of man.
Mat 24:38 For as in those days which were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noah entered into the ark,
Mat 24:39 and they knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall be the coming of the Son of man.
Mat 24:40 Then shall two man be in the field; one is taken, and one is left:
Mat 24:41 two women shall be grinding at the mill; one is taken, and one is left.
Mat 24:42 Watch therefore: for ye know not on what day your Lord cometh.
This is the text from where Jesus talks about "the coming of the Son of man." and His gathering together of the elect, (like in 2 Thess 2:1-4, and it is in the order of 2 Thess 2:1-4, with the Lawless man first with the apostasy, then the gathering and Second Coming.)

reason why mid trib and post trib do not work...........

Peace comes to the earth during the first three and half years with seals going on

soon as the beast sit on the throne which is mid trib starts the thunders and vials

and if post trib we would now what day or hour it would be.......

 

[R.E.Taet]

Mat 24:29 But immediately after the tribulation of those days the sun shall be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
Mat 24:30 and then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
Mat 24:31 And he shall send forth his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.
Mat 24:32 Now from the fig tree learn her parable: when her branch is now become tender, and putteth forth its leaves, ye know that the summer is nigh;
Mat 24:33 even so ye also, when ye see all these things, know ye that he is nigh, even at the doors.
Mat 24:34 Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass away, till all these things be accomplished.
Mat 24:35 Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away.
Mat 24:36 But of that day and hour knoweth no one, not even the angels of heaven, neither the Son, but the Father only.
Mat 24:37 And as were the days of Noah, so shall be the coming of the Son of man.
Mat 24:38 For as in those days which were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noah entered into the ark,
Mat 24:39 and they knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall be the coming of the Son of man.
Mat 24:40 Then shall two man be in the field; one is taken, and one is left:
Mat 24:41 two women shall be grinding at the mill; one is taken, and one is left.
Mat 24:42 Watch therefore: for ye know not on what day your Lord cometh.

"the coming of the Son of man. Then shall two man be in the field; one is taken, and one is left:"

"...the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our gathering together to Him,... ...Let no one in any way deceive you, for {it will not come} unless the apostasy comes first, and the man of lawlessness is revealed,..." 2 Thess 2:1,3

How does this not contradict the pre-trib idea? Or is the Mathew passage not about the Rapture?

 

[A Brethren IN CHRIST]

Mat 24:29 But immediately after the tribulation of those days the sun shall be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
Mat 24:30 and then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

2nd coming not Rapture

Mat 24:31 And he shall send forth his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.
Mat 24:32 Now from the fig tree learn her parable: when her branch is now become tender, and putteth forth its leaves, ye know that the summer is nigh;
Mat 24:33 even so ye also, when ye see all these things, know ye that he is nigh, even at the doors.
Mat 24:34 Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass away, till all these things be accomplished.
Mat 24:35 Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away.
Mat 24:36 But of that day and hour knoweth no one, not even the angels of heaven, neither the Son, but the Father only.
Mat 24:37 And as were the days of Noah, so shall be the coming of the Son of man.
Mat 24:38 For as in those days which were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noah entered into the ark,
Mat 24:39 and they knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall be the coming of the Son of man.
Mat 24:40 Then shall two man be in the field; one is taken, and one is left:
Mat 24:41 two women shall be grinding at the mill; one is taken, and one is left.
Mat 24:42 Watch therefore: for ye know not on what day your Lord cometh.

2nd coming not rapture why bible thumpers can see the signs...noah knew it was coming and so will any believers just like the flood...rapture is next thing in prophesy...for this is the judgement of the church

"the coming of the Son of man. Then shall two man be in the field; one is taken, and one is left:"

"...the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our gathering together to Him,... ...Let no one in any way deceive you, for {it will not come} unless the apostasy comes first, and the man of lawlessness is revealed,..." 2 Thess 2:1,3


How does this not contradict the pre-trib idea? Or is the Mathew passage not about the Rapture?

not about rapture

verse 24:3 is 3 questions

 

[Justme]

Hi forum,
I'll start by saying that I do not see any 'left behind' type rapture in the bible. If believers want to call being caught up to heaven at death the rapture I could understand that. As far as a car emptying event to avoid a tribulation, that is not biblically possible as far as I can see.

I would ask that readers follow these few verses and comment.

1 Thess 4
15According to the Lord's own word, we tell you that we who are still alive, who are left till the COMING OF THE LORD, will certainly not precede those who have fallen asleep.

Those who are alive at the parousia(coming/presense of the son of man) will not come to live before those who sleep. Daniel for instance.

Those who come to live prior to the parousia are AFTER the 1000 year reign with Christ.
Rev 20
5(The rest of the dead did not come to life until the thousand years were ended.).............

Then the last few verses of Rev 14 tells how John sees the coming on the clouds. He is told this just as he hears this instruction:
Rev 14
13Then I heard a voice from heaven say, "Write: Blessed are the dead who die in the Lord from now on."

There is no room for, or mention of, any 'left behind' type rapture there, not before the GT, during the GT nor after the great tribulation.

There is mention of the dead being caught up to Heaven, but not the classic rapture story as I see it. The time frame shown here takes us from 1000 years(figuratively speaking,I assume) prior to the parousia to the end of the planet.
Comments?

Justme

 

[R.E.Taet]

Please show me the scripture(s) that says before the tribulation all of the Saved will disappear and everyone else will stay on the earth.

 

[A Brethren IN CHRIST]

lets start with the trumpets....why just listen and remember differences are what we are looking at...............



1 cor 15:52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump [of what?] for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incoruptible, and we[believers] shall be changed.[describeswhat happens]

1 thes 4:16 For the Lord Him self shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God and the dead in Christ shall rise first: 17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air [rapture]:and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

so the last trump in 1 cor 15:52 comes together very well with 1 thes 4:16 the trump of God and in both places changing happens ......in Rev those trumpets are by angels not GOD.


romans 5:9 Much more then, being now justified by His blood, we shall be saved from wrath through Him

romans 8:1 There is therefore no condemnation to them which are in Christ

1thes 1:10 And to wait for His Son from heaven, whom he raised from the dead, even Jesus, which delivered us from the wrath to come.

1 thes 5:2 For yourselves know perfectly that the say of the Lord so comes as a thief in the night. 3 For when they shall say Peace and safety;[2thes 2:11] then sudden destruction cometh upon them as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape 4 But ye brethren are not in darkness, that that day should overtake you as a thief. 5 Ye are all the son's of light and the son's of the day: we are not of the night, nor of darkness. 6 Therefore let us not sleep as do other's[1thes 4:13]; but let us watch and be sobber.

2thes 1:3-7



finish latter church time

 

[R.E.Taet]

"Mat 24:31 And he shall send forth his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other"

This is a trumpet blast from the passage in Matthew 24, a which you said is post-trib (and I agree.)

1Th 4:16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven, with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first;
1Th 4:17 then we that are alive, that are left, shall together with them be caught up in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

1Co 15:52 in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.

In the scriptures you brought up there are two mentions of blasts, one of which is the "last trump," so this blast must either be the blast mentioned in Matt 24:31, or after the one in Matthew. Otherwise it is not the last, since there is clearly a trumpet blast in Matt 24:31. I conlude that these passages coralate not only to eachother but also to the passage in Matthew 24, since there cannot be more trumpet blast after the last blast has occured. By coralation, I conclude that they refer to post-trib events, as Matthew 24:29-42 is about what happens "immediately after the tribulation."


ADDED Sun Oct 5, 8:58pm CST

I reread your post about Matthew 24:29-42 and now I am not sure exactly what you meant. You posted "Not about rapture," in your second statement, but then you wrote "rapture is next thing in prophesy." After I wrote what I did above, I wonder if you devided that passage into two sections, one about the rapture and the other about the second Coming, (two different days, instead of one.) If this is so, my responce above needs to be amended.

 

[A Brethren IN CHRIST]

if the same action is taking place ...and in one it says trump of God and another says last trump but it still the same action

That means God blew more than once at that time

thus in Revelation when the angels blow there trumpets at different times thus different orders ..

last trump of God verses last trump of angels