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Ticklish ears may not like the truth, but it is truth that sets free. God rejected Esau and thus left Esau in reprobation by Sovereign choice. This is no decision based on merit. God made His decision before either child had been born or had done anything good nor bad. God made a decision to "make out of Jacob" a good seed by God's own Sovereign election to salvation. God made a decision to leave Esau a child of wrath in the fall into sin into which Adam placed the entire human race.No one, absolutely no one, is born in Adam as a reprobate, but has to choose the Light that lights them [Christ], on coming into the world, or reject that light when they come to the understanding of good and evil, and choose evil, and continue choosing evil with knowledge, until they are without remedy and get their name blotted out of the Book if Life.
The protestation is not against the Bible being "misinterpreted". The protestation is against the Sovereign decision of God to do as He wills with His creation. There is no "moral outrage" that God chooses to leave sinners in sin. There is only the human rage of the sinful nature which wills for man to be God and to have all power of rebellion in sin to do as he pleases and to declare his will "good". This is sin.
You accuse of me of blasphemy, but it is you who is in rebellion against God raging with the rage of Satan against the Sovereign good pleasure of God to do as He wills with His creation.
As the scripture plainly states, the choice of God to election or reprobation does not depend upon man, man's will, nor man's effort, nor man's desire. Rather, salvation and election are wholly by grace -- with no merit of man -- and depends purely on God deciding to have compassion on whom He shall have compassion. Salvation is 100% the mercy of God and nothing else. Salvation is a perfect work wrought wholly by God by grace wholly by His own mercy and by His own Spirit. Without God choosing to have mercy, man will die in the rebellion of sin in the image of his father Satan spiritually into which he was born in the flesh. Those may be hard truths, but the desire for man to be God is slain by engrafting that truth. Then, and only then, in obedient submission to God in His Sovereignty can the glory of God's Love in true perfection be known at it's foundation in Jesus Christ alone.
To God be all the glory. To man be none. If this seems "blasphemous", then one knows who one is worshipping: man.
Romans 9:10-16 (King James Version)
10And not only this; but when Rebecca also had conceived by one, even by our father Isaac;
11(For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth.
12It was said unto her, The elder shall serve the younger.
13As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated.
14What shall we say then? Is there unrighteousness with God? God forbid.
15For he saith to Moses, I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion.
16So then it is not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that sheweth mercy.
In Isaiah 14:1-27, we are seeing what happens "after" the marriage supper of the Lamb. (I'll quote "parts of it" to begin "expanding the key" which can then be used to "crack the code" of Book of Revelation scripture -- line upon line and precept upon precept.)
God has mercy on Jacob. The whole earth is at rest. The 1000 year reign of Christ has commenced on earth. The king of Babylon (Satan) has been removed from the earth. (This happened when the angel came down in Revelation 20 to bind the dragon, that old serpent, the Devil and Satan with a chain and sealed him in the abyss for the 1000 years.)
1For the LORD will have mercy on Jacob, and will yet choose Israel, and set them in their own land: and the strangers shall be joined with them, and they shall cleave to the house of Jacob.
2And the people shall take them, and bring them to their place: and the house of Israel shall possess them in the land of the LORD for servants and handmaids: and they shall take them captives, whose captives they were; and they shall rule over their oppressors.
3And it shall come to pass in the day that the LORD shall give thee rest from thy sorrow, and from thy fear, and from the hard bondage wherein thou wast made to serve,
4That thou shalt take up this proverb against the king of Babylon, and say, How hath the oppressor ceased! the golden city ceased!
5The LORD hath broken the staff of the wicked, and the sceptre of the rulers.
6He who smote the people in wrath with a continual stroke, he that ruled the nations in anger, is persecuted, and none hindereth.
7The whole earth is at rest, and is quiet: they break forth into singing.
8Yea, the fir trees rejoice at thee, and the cedars of Lebanon, saying, Since thou art laid down, no feller is come up against us.
Now we see what is happening in hell after the 1000 years. Those who are in hell remark that Satan has come to join them and appears to be weak as a man like them. The scripture is very clear that this "king of Babylon" is Lucifer who has become like a man. Lucifer is plunging into hell as the result of what the angel in Revelation 20 has done to bind him. Remarkably, we see that not only do those in hell testify that he is like a man ~~ we see also physical evidence of a physical flesh body rather than a spiritual body: worms are spread under Lucifer and worms cover him. Lucifer, has become bound in human flesh from this testimony of scripture.
9Hell from beneath is moved for thee to meet thee at thy coming: it stirreth up the dead for thee, even all the chief ones of the earth; it hath raised up from their thrones all the kings of the nations.
10All they shall speak and say unto thee, Art thou also become weak as we? art thou become like unto us?
11Thy pomp is brought down to the grave, and the noise of thy viols: the worm is spread under thee, and the worms cover thee.
12How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!
13For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north:
14I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High.
15Yet thou shalt be brought down to hell, to the sides of the pit.
16They that see thee shall narrowly look upon thee, and consider thee, saying, Is this the man that made the earth to tremble, that did shake kingdoms;
17That made the world as a wilderness, and destroyed the cities thereof; that opened not the house of his prisoners?
Here it appears that Satan is in the flesh of a man, but did not have "burial". Satan is known as the "king of Babylon". Kings of earth were buried in great tombs. However, God does not allow Satan any form of burial on earth. He is as the carcase of a dead man -- but a man who has no grave for his body on earth.
i8All the kings of the nations, even all of them, lie in glory, every one in his own house.
19But thou art cast out of thy grave like an abominable branch, and as the raiment of those that are slain, thrust through with a sword, that go down to the stones of the pit; as a carcase trodden under feet.
20Thou shalt not be joined with them in burial, because thou hast destroyed thy land, and slain thy people: the seed of evildoers shall never be renowned.
The Jews already know God I would think
lamb:
I don't know why you would think that. Jesus told many of them that they did not know God.
Jn 8:28Then said they unto him, Where is thy Father? Jesus answered, Ye neither know me, nor my Father: if ye had known me, ye should have known my Father also.
Jesus was speaking to jews in this context i.e
jn 8:37I know that ye are Abraham's seed; but ye seek to kill me, because my word hath no place in you.
So do you believe that just because a person is a ethnic jew they know God ? If you do, thats weird to me.
Perhaps I will have to reconsider your premise that men are sired of the devil -at least in one case. Maybe you know more about that than I, by experience with that spirit.You accuse of me of blasphemy, but it is you who is in rebellion against God raging with the rage of Satan against the Sovereign good pleasure of God to do as He wills with His creation.
the theology that resorts to this kind of thinking and teaching is called "Dispensationalism"It's also weird to me how Christians, who are born again spiritually and are so much better in spiritual state than anyone of the first covenant -- having been partakers of a better covenant with better promises and literally having been born-again as the spiritual sons of God ~~ think that Jews are "better than them" almost in pagan worship of Jews. Seems pagan. Almost as if Satan has used Jews, by twisting the Word, to deceive Christians into denying who they are in Christ.
I will no longer, further entertain you, about a man, obama or any other, as being the end time son of PerditionI've factually proven my assertions. You've refused to evaluate facts. Instead you declare programming by the MSM (controlled media) to be the only source you receive, apparently. You refuse to believe free information. You seem to be a person who accepts propaganda sources (MSM & Obama Campaign HQ) as "truth" and refuses to examine source material. The source material is factual. The MSM is biased. Our perhaps you've not heard of the Journolist effort to direct people's opinions by mitigating truth?? You are believing propaganda, and programmed to discount valid sources in order to believe propaganda.
After JournoList Exposé, No One Better Ever Deny Liberal Media Bias Again
By Brent Bozell (Bio | Archive)
Thu, 07/22/2010 - 12:18 ET
Managing Editor's Note: NewsBusters Publisher Brent Bozell today reprimanded members of the press in light of the recently exposed e-mails from the now-defunct JournoList that show a blatant, deliberate campaign to smear conservatives. That statement is published below. Click here for more background on JournoList.
The revelation of these e-mails simply proves that we have been right all along. The liberal media have no interest in being fair or unbiased. In fact, they are deliberately violating any sense of journalistic ethics.
There is no excuse – none- for the attitudes and lack of professionalism these so-called journalists displayed not only in these e-mails but in their reporting. Any member of the media that was privy to these Journolist emails, and remained silent, is just as much to blame as the folks that crafted these e-mails. Their silence indicts them.
We said in 2008 that the media were making excuses for Jeremiah Wright and now we have the proof. Just today we learned from the Daily Caller that these people went so far as to say that Rush Limbaugh ‘deserves’ their hate. Sadly, I am not surprised, as this is what we have been exposing year after year about the media. And it’s exactly why Americans refuse to trust them.
Read more: After JournoList Exposé, No One Better Ever Deny Liberal Media Bias Again | NewsBusters.org
The Smoking Gun For Media Bias
Posted 07/21/2010 06:52 PM ET
Journo-Gate: For decades, moderates and conservatives have been derided and ridiculed for complaining about the mainstream media's pervasive liberal bias. As it turns out, however, their worst fears were true.
If you don't know about Journolist, you should. It's a semi-secret listserv maintained by Washington Post columnist Ezra Klein. Don't bother to try to log on. If they want you, they'll ask you to take part. No outsiders need apply.
And who uses it? Almost exclusively liberal journalists and left-leaning movers and shakers. Sound innocuous? It isn't.
Journolist has become a forum for lefty journalists to talk about how to push their progressive agenda on America, protect President Obama and hurt his foes. It is a safe-space for the often-vile expression of hatred toward conservatives and their ideas.
It all came to light a few weeks ago when news broke that then-Washington Post writer David Weigel, hired to cover the conservative movement for the Post, had made disparaging comments about those he covered on Journolist.
Weigel's remarks were bad enough. But in the ensuing weeks, other comments emerged that made it clear his comments weren't atypical. Not only do the liberal journalists despise conservatives and their non-progressive vision for America, but they actively colluded — one might say plotted — to undercut them.
This isn't journalism. It's political activism.
What's disappointing is not just the lie that journalists put forth about being "objective." That's long since been proved false by survey after survey showing that members of the media are not only overwhelmingly Democratic in their political orientation but also far to the left of average Americans on virtually every major social and economic issue, from tax cuts to abortion.
No, the biggest disappointment is the nastiness they appear to harbor toward right-leaning journalist colleagues.
During the 2008 debate over the Rev. Jeremiah Wright, President Obama's personal pastor who repeatedly expressed his contempt for America in shockingly racist terms, some on Journolist suggested ways to squelch coverage. As Spencer Ackerman of the inaptly named Washington Independent suggested, "What is necessary is to raise the cost on the right of going after the left. ... Take one of them — Fred Barnes, Karl Rove, who cares — and call them racists."
When McCain picked Palin, liberal journalists coordinated the best line of attack By Jonathan Strong - The Daily Caller 3:09 AM 07/22/2010
In the hours after Sen. John McCain announced his choice of Alaska Gov. Sarah Palin to be his running mate in the last presidential race, members of an online forum called Journolist struggled to make sense of the pick. Many of them were liberal reporters, and in some cases their comments reflected a journalist’s instinct to figure out the meaning of a story.
But in many other exchanges, the Journolisters clearly had another, more partisan goal in mind: to formulate the most effective talking points in order to defeat Palin and McCain and help elect Barack Obama president. The tone was more campaign headquarters than newsroom.
The conversation began with a debate over how best to attack Sarah Palin. “Honestly, this pick reeks of desperation,” wrote Michael Cohen of the New America Foundation in the minutes after the news became public. “How can anyone logically argue that Sarah Pallin [sic], a one-term governor of Alaska, is qualified to be President of the United States? Train wreck, thy name is Sarah Pallin.”
Not a wise argument, responded Jonathan Stein, a reporter for Mother Jones. If McCain were asked about Palin’s inexperience, he could simply point to then candidate Barack Obama’s similarly thin resume. “Q: Sen. McCain, given Gov. Palin’s paltry experience, how is she qualified to be commander in chief?,” Stein asked hypothetically. “A: Well, she has much experience as the Democratic nominee.”
“What a joke,” added Jeffrey Toobin of the New Yorker. “I always thought that some part of McCain doesn’t want to be president, and this choice proves my point. Welcome back, Admiral Stockdale.”
Daniel Levy of the Century Foundation noted that Obama’s “non-official campaign” would need to work hard to discredit Palin. “This seems to me like an occasion when the non-official campaign has a big role to play in defining Palin, shaping the terms of the conversation and saying things that the official [Obama] campaign shouldn’t say – very hard-hitting stuff, including some of the things that people have been noting here – scare people about having this woefully inexperienced, no foreign policy/national security/right-wing christia wing-nut a heartbeat away …… bang away at McCain’s age making this unusually significant …. I think people should be replicating some of the not-so-pleasant viral email campaigns that were used against [Obama].”
Ryan Donmoyer, a reporter for Bloomberg News who was covering the campaign, sent a quick thought that Palin’s choice not to have an abortion when she unexpectedly became pregnant at age 44 would likely boost her image because it was a heartwarming story.
“Her decision to keep the Down’s baby is going to be a hugely emotional story that appeals to a vast swath of America, I think,” Donmoyer wrote.
Politico reporter Ben Adler, now an editor at Newsweek, replied, “but doesn’t leaving sad baby without its mother while she campaigns weaken that family values argument? Or will everyone be too afraid to make that point?”
Blogger Matt Yglesias sent out a new post thread with the subject, “The line on Palin.”
“John McCain picked someone to help him politically, Barack Obama picked someone to help him govern,” Yglesias wrote.
Ed Kilgore, managing editor of the Democratic Strategist blog, argued that journalists and others trying to help the Obama campaign should focus on Palin’s beliefs. “The criticism of her really, really needs to be ideological, not just about experience. If we concede she’s a ‘maverick,’ we will have done John McCain an enormous service. And let’s don’t concede the claim that [Hillary Clinton] supporters are likely to be very attracted to her,” Kilgore said.
Amidst this debate over how most effectively to destroy Palin’s reputation, reporter Avi Zenilman, who was then writing about the campaign for Politico, chimed in to note that Palin had “openly backed” parts of Obama’s energy plan. In an interview Wednesday, Zenilman said he sent the information as a means of promoting a story he had written for Politico.
Chris Hayes of the Nation wrote in with words of encouragement, and to ask for more talking points. “Keep the ideas coming! Have to go on TV to talk about this in a few min and need all the help I can get,” Hayes wrote.
Suzanne Nossel, chief of operations for Human Rights Watch, added a novel take: “I think it is and can be spun as a profoundly sexist pick. Women should feel umbrage at the idea that their votes can be attracted just by putting a woman, any woman, on the ticket no matter her qualifications or views.”
Mother Jones’s Stein loved the idea. “That’s excellent! If enough people – people on this list? – write that the pick is sexist, you’ll have the networks debating it for days. And that negates the SINGLE thing Palin brings to the ticket,” he wrote.
Another writer from Mother Jones, Nick Baumann, had this idea: “Say it with me: ‘Classic GOP Tokenism’.”
Kilgore wasn’t sold: “I STRONGLY think the immediate task is to challenge the ‘maverick’ bull[wash my mouth][wash my mouth][wash my mouth][wash my mouth] about Palin, which everybody on the tube is echoing. I’ll say it one more time: Palin is a hard-core conservative ideologue in every measurable way.”
Zenilman of Politico, a purportedly nonpartisan journalist, weighed in with tactical advice: “The experience attack is a stupid one. It’s absolutely the wrong tack — the tack that McCain took when he was losing, and that Hillary and Biden took all primaries.” Zenilman said Wednesday he was offering “typical offhand political analysis.”
Joe Klein of Time stopped by with an update on the latest from his magazine: “We’re reporting that she actually supported the bridge to nowhere. First flub?”
Klein, who displayed an independent streak in other circumstances (“anybody who knows me knows I do my own thinking,” he said in a Wednesday interview), seemed to exude more partisanship that day than usual.
As the morning wore on into the afternoon, some on Journolist came to believe the Palin pick had been shrewd. Palin was coming off as appealing and a maverick, they worried.
“Okay, let’s get deadly serious, folks. Grating voice or not, ‘inexperienced’ or not, Sarah Palin’s just been introduced to the country as a brave, above-party, oil-company-bashing, pork-hating maverick ‘outsider’,” Kilgore said, “What we can do is to expose her ideology.”
........
Time’s Joe Klein then linked to his own piece, parts of which he acknowledged came from strategy sessions on Journolist. “Here’s my attempt to incorporate the accumulated wisdom of this august list-serve community,” he wrote. And indeed Klein’s article contained arguments developed by his fellow Journolisters. Klein praised Palin personally, calling her “fresh” and “delightful,” but questioned her “militant” ideology. He noted Palin had endorsed parts of Obama’s energy proposal.
That was all on the day of the announcement.
sorry...Satan is
God has already defined exactly who he is going to be,
and it is not a man of flesh and blood
but rather an angelic supernatural being
that will fool the world with his lies and miracles and peace
and he will look like a lamb (hint hint)
we can discuss why I think it is Satan,
or why you think it is a man...(general)
but no specific persons mentioned, or I am done!
we are warned not to do that in the Bible
I pray you find truth in your search!
hiYour theory that Satan himself is the antichrist of the 7 year period is far outside biblical thought and opinion.
the first half is political and led by kings of the earth,To fail to believe that a human being will rise as a world leader during the 7 year period is a colossal error.
NOPE...Satan himself cast out of heaven and to the earthWhat "arrives" at the midpoint of the apocalypse is the full blasphemy of the reprobate. They are thus completely hardened in their hearts, in a state of entire blasphemy against God, the "great falling away" has produced the fruit of the world system having become, spiritually on the inside through blasphemy of the Holy Spirit en masse, the body politic of the kingdom of Satan as Satan incarnate through full spiritual possession by Satan.
Luke 22:3 (King James Version)
Satan was ordered back behind Christ, by Christ3Then entered Satan into Judas surnamed Iscariot, being of the number of the twelve.
Satan entering the world system by full possession by Satan in full blasphemy of the Spirit by the reprobate world system en masse as the Christians of Revelation 12 arise in the full measure of the full stature of Jesus Christ in entire sanctification in the Holy Spirit are the "correlating events" of Satan being cast to earth.
To every action there is an equal and opposite reaction in the spirit realm.
the silence in heaven for 1/2 hour in Rev8 must be about the final hour....1/2 of it...Isaiah 59:19 (King James Version)
19So shall they fear the name of the LORD from the west, and his glory from the rising of the sun. When the enemy shall come in like a flood, the Spirit of the LORD shall lift up a standard against him.
I do not agree that the time of Satan being cast to earth, at the midpoint of the apocalypse, is the time of silence in Heaven. Rather, there are things spoken in a loud voice. You're saying the opposite of the testimony of scripture to say there will be silence:
Revelation 12: 7And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels, 8And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven.
9And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.
10And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night.
11And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death.
fictionAs stated above, Satan's "rule" during the last 3-1/2 years is through full spiritual possession of the 666 beast and the reprobate world system which has blasphemed the Holy Spirit completely in the great falling away manifested at the abomination of desolation.
i'm simply repeating scripture,You are trying to make spiritual possession of the reprobate blasphemers equate to a "physical rule" by Satan.
Rather, the first 666 beast antichrist is the same figure throughout the 7 year period.
He rises to political power during the first 3-1/2 years of the 7 year apocalypse, commits the abomination of desolation at the midpoint of the apocalypse, then rules for the latter half of the 3-1/2 year period.
fiction...They will be fully spiritually possessed by Satan entering them. They will blaspheme the Holy Spirit resulting in full internal possession by Satan equaling them individually and as a corporate body becoming "Satan incarnate" ~~ in spiritual possession by Satan.
are you saying that Rev13 is over 1000 years long?The error here, as I see it, is in failure to see that the 2nd beast is Satan personified coming after the 1000 year reign.
the whole point of the divide in Rev13 (mentioning of the second beast)You are correct to see that Satan is the 2nd beast coming physically personally. However, the same 666 antichrist figure (the first beast) throughout the initial 7 year apocalyptic period "confirming the covenant with the many" then committing the abomination of desolation at the midpoint, and ruling for the latter 3-1/2 years.
fictionI'll come back, expand upon the OT/NT scripture to build a more full scriptural case. That will give you an opportunity to see you are right that Satan comes personally as the 2nd beast. However, he does not come as the second beast during the 7 year apocalyptic period. He comes from the abyss after the 1000 years have expired as the 2nd beast personally and individually in the body of the 666 beast as the 666 beast remains burning in the lake of fire in his soul. (Satan actually "takes on the body of the 666 beast" right at the marriage supper of the Lamb.
The Lord has been working on me for 5 years now with Revelation...It is "difficult" to see in scripture because it is very spiritual, it's about possession and control and prison and punishment for Satan during the 1000 years. It's just "difficult" to see on one's own, I think, to gain the initial revelation of the Word on it. I've never heard anyone say what the Spirit showed me. But I think that once I lay out the scripture, then it's easier for other Christians to see. God showed me because there is special enmity between myself and Satan, perhaps. That's what I like to think... because I so passionately desired to see the punishment of Satan and his demise.... that I think I 'pressed through" to the revelation. That's how I understand how I could see this, at least.) Anyway, as I "unfold" or "layout" the scriptures -- I will be interested to see what the Lord reveals to you.
well, I'd say pretty much the same thing about your belief...You may be "ahead of the curve" in seeing Satan coming personally as the 2nd beast. But with all due respect, it is your timing that is incorrect. He comes as the second beast after the 1000 years when he is loosed from the abyss. This error in timing of fulfillment of the second beast is leading you, as I see it, to false conclusions related to the 7 year apocalypse.
if ya really feel the need to, go for it...Therefore, I think it most beneficial to come back with that scriptural case. It may "untie the knot" whereby we are "stuck" not seeing the same things in the same order right now.
It has been almost 8 yrs for me and the LORD is still working on me with it*snip*
The Lord has been working on me for 5 years now with Revelation...
I have a foundation that is in Rock....
any attempt to circomnavigate this foundation, will be disregarded as error
I was saved in the 80's and I don't presume to be an expert on anything! Beware anyone who does.
I read a lot of folks here who appear proud of their knowledge but miss the point entirely. " I say this" or "I say that" A lot of folks here have "I" problems!
I "ruled out" and "threw out" your suggestion that the political beast who rises to initiate the 7 year apocalypse is of no consequence. The first beast is the beast who confirms the covenant with the many. He does so as a political leader. At the mid-point of the apocalypse, he commits the abomination of desolation and continues through to the consummation -- until the wrath of God determined upon him is poured upon the desolate (the 666 beast system). Daniel 9:27 (King James Version)the first half is political and led by kings of the earth,
and then at the mid point, Satan arrives, saved the broken system,
and turns that system religous...
27And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.
The first beast absolutely does continue through the entire 7 year period and is worshipped as God during the latter 3-1/2 year tribulation. Based on Daniel 9:27 and the statement that the same beast who initiates the 7 year period is "the one" who commits the abomination of desolation, this first beast is that political leader. (I say is Barack Hussein Obama (aka Barry Sotero) on evidence I presented in the OP links and should be "watched" for the next two years to see how things progress):
Revelation 13
1And I stood upon the sand of the sea, and saw a beast rise up out of the sea, having seven heads and ten horns, and upon his horns ten crowns, and upon his heads the name of blasphemy.
2And the beast which I saw was like unto a leopard, and his feet were as the feet of a bear, and his mouth as the mouth of a lion: and the dragon gave him his power, and his seat, and great authority.
3And I saw one of his heads as it were wounded to death; and his deadly wound was healed: and all the world wondered after the beast.
4And they worshipped the dragon which gave power unto the beast: and they worshipped the beast, saying, Who is like unto the beast? who is able to make war with him?
5And there was given unto him a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies; and power was given unto him to continue forty and two months.
6And he opened his mouth in blasphemy against God, to blaspheme his name, and his tabernacle, and them that dwell in heaven.
7And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations.
8And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.
As far as a "bumpy ride" during the trib ~~ this whole thread is about what happens in the land of Revelation 18 at the midpoint of the apocalypse. How God's people are called out and protected, fire burns an entire land, and the saints rise in kingdom power and authority on earth.Satan himself is cast out of heaven, defacto...by force
and here to earth...woe to us here on earth then....
Satan is coming disguised as an angel of light
to fail to see this, means one is in for a bumpy ride in the trib
I do not accept your premise that the political world leader who rises to "confirm the covenant with the many" to initiate the 7 year period "disappears" at the midpoint of the apocalypse... per above.
However, I had not previously considered the scriptural view that Satan being cast to earth comes in an angelic body to "be" the second beast. I am not certain if this is "ruled out" by scripture or not.
Who is the second beast?? Is he the "false prophet"?? Because the first beast and false prophet of the 7 year period are cast alive into the lake of fire. They remain in the lake of fire when Satan is released from the abyss. Also, in Judgment, Satan is cast into the lake of fire where the beast and false prophet are. So, if the "second beast" in the first 7 years is the false prophet ~~ that beast is not Satan.
Revelation 20: 10And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.
I had always believed that the 2nd beast was the false prophet in the first 7 year period. If so, that 2nd beast is NOT Satan personified. However, if the 2nd beast is not the false prophet, then I will examine whether he could be Satan come in the body of a fallen angel.
Satan is cast to earth in scripture as the authority of the church rises in the anointing of Jesus Christ:NOPE...Satan himself cast out of heaven and to the earth
Luke 10:17-19 (King James Version)
17And the seventy returned again with joy, saying, Lord, even the devils are subject unto us through thy name.
18And he said unto them, I beheld Satan as lightning fall from heaven.
19Behold, I give unto you power to tread on serpents and scorpions, and over all the power of the enemy: and nothing shall by any means hurt you.
The disciples taking authority over Satan denotes the church having power to tread on serpents and scorpions, and over all power of the enemy. The disciples arising in Kingdom power and authority (as is stated to occur in Revelation 12 regarding the saints who I say are those who came out of Revelation 18), creates this dynamic of Satan being cast down.
Satan didn't come around when Jesus was ministering and appear before people to rule the world then. So, therefore, I'm not sure why people would think that Satan being cast down from Heaven in great authority of the church as the church arises in that power of the Spirit of Revelation 12 means that Satan is appearing in an angelic body to rule the world personally.
The scripture is clear that the entire world will be possessed by Satan in blasphemy of the Spirit. This is more likely to be the progression of satanic manifestation on earth during this time, through possession of the reprobate who have now blasphemed the Spirit.
You have not proven, to me, that Satan has appeared in a bodily form. The scripture is to interpret scripture. The scripture I just provided makes it more likely that Satan being cast to earth is evidence of the power of the church in Revelation 12 rising spiritually in Kingdom power and authority over Satan rather than Satan manifesting bodily on earth.
Yes, it does appear to me that Satan appears in a physical form after the 1000 years -- taking the body of the 666 beast to do so. If you have scripture to better prove that this occurs during the latter 3-1/2 year period of the 7 year period rather than at Final Armageddon after the 1000 years, I am open to see it.Satan was ordered back behind Christ, by Christ
from that point on, it is about possession, as with Peter and Judas
and not his physical form being here...
but he has a physical form...and it is prophesied to come here again
It is not accurate to say this is the time of silence or the end. Life goes on on earth for 3-1/2 years more, then the marriage supper of the Lamb where the whole beast system is annihilated, then the 1000 year reign of Christ, then Satan is released for a little time, then Final Armageddon occurs.at the mid point of the trib,
Satan is cast out of heaven and to the earth for a short season (silence in heaven for 1/2 hour)
he is once again here on earth in his own supernatural angelic body
woe to us...he'll fool almost the entire world
and seduce many Christians out of their Wedding feast
No, I cannot see God having a "moment of silence" for Satan. Plus the scripture declares that the angel shouts in a loud voice in Revelation 12 as this occurs and says, "NOW" while so stating. There was no "reverence" in silence for the moment. The angel says "Now" and speaks in a loud voice when that happens.the silence in heaven for 1/2 hour in Rev8 must be about the final hour....1/2 of it...
linked to Satan accusations against the bretheren,
as stated in Rev12
The 7th seal is not opened during the 7 year apocalypse. The 7th seal is opened at the very end after the 1000 year reign of Christ at Final Armageddon. It makes much more sense that the 7th seal is opened, Jesus appears in the first Heaven, all Israel beholds Him and is given 1/2 hour of time to mourn before they are thus spiritually converted and then the 7th trumpet sounds and Jesus descends with a SHOUT!1And when he had opened the seventh seal, there was silence in heaven about the space of half an hour.
The demons are devils and jointly combine in one to be Satan and the Devil. They have the same spirit of blasphemy. It's a spiritual thing. The demons aren't "excluded" from being cast into the abyss with Satan... or cast out with Satan. When Satan is cast down from Heaven, being the greatest power of devil, all the other devils are cost down with him and in him spiritually. So, no, it's not that "simple" that demons are nowhere "in the mix" of the term "serpent, devil, dragon, Satan" -- they are all the same common spirit and thus spiritual entity -- yet they have individuality too, Lucifer become Satan as the "spiritual father" and "head".who is the dragon?
isn't that old serpend, the devil and the dragon..all the same entity?
Satan right?
ya I thot so!
Satan being silenced doesn't mean all Heaven is experiencing a moment of silence. As you see, Satan immediately goes to pursue the woman and acts. He may not be accusing from Heaven, but he moves immediately to attack the "woman" and turn to commit genocide against other Christians still on earth but not in the protected area. Satan's accusations are power that "keep us" from arising fully in Christ. The people in Revelation 12 arise in Kingdom power and authority knowing "who they are in Christ". They don't "buy" his accusations anymore. They take authority over him in the name of Jesus and Satan is cast down as even he felll like lightning during the time the disciples ministered in Jesus' name by the anointing of Jesus Christ. This doesn't mean "game off". The game continues -- it just doesn't go "Satan's way" towards this body of believers. He tries reaching them with a flood. (He's still railing -- but it's just lost any power to hold them under his power. They have arisen in the full measure of the stature of Christ -- they know who they are in Christ -- his words bounce off them like nothing -- and he cannot reach them to enter the land where they are -- and in a rage turns to go massmurder Christians in another area. Satan doesn't say "game off" -- and there's no "moment of silence" in the devil there. Furthermore, Satan still has power over the saints outside the protected area. Therefore, whether you can see it or not, from my view, Satan was ONLY cast down in relationship to the saints of Revelation 12 who arose in full spriituall authority over him and whom he lost power to harm. But he still has power to harm other Christians who have not arisen in the level anointing the saints of Revelation 12 have.)so, as I read it, Satan is in heaven accusing us before God, day and night
Satan will be cast out of heaven and to the earth
That means that there will no longer be the accusations against us in heaven...
Satan will have been silenced in heaven
Woe to those not in the protected area of Revelation 12 on earth.but woe to us on earth, cause he himself is coming here,
and does he have wrath...oh boy!
No, in Luke 10 he was cast down. That denotes the spiritual authority of Christians rising against Satan in relation to THEM, as Satan is cast down in relation to THEM. In Luke 10, that doesn't mean Satan lost power all around the world in relation to other people with no power to possess other people ~~ and it doesn't mean he came down in an angelic body.i'm simply repeating scripture,
which states that Satan is going to be cast out of heaven
and to the earth for a short season
if he was possessing folks, he'd still be in heaven doing it..
but we know he gets the boot...so no possession
he's here himself in his own angelic body
Daniel 9:27 (King James Version)there is no "he" in the first half, only kings of the earth
Satan being cast down in the midpoint of the apocalypse when the saints of Revelation 12 arise in anointing ON EARTH is not fiction. It will happen. But, as stated, doesn't mean necessarily that's describing Satan coming in bodily form.fiction...
but the bible stating that Satan is coming here himself is not fiction,
that is scripture Bro!
No, I'm saying that the same scripture is ALIVE and will "come alive" by the revelation of the Holy Spirit with application to the 7 year period... and to what will repeat when Satan is loosed from the abyss 1000 years later.are you saying that Rev13 is over 1000 years long?
that is truly a unique position...
but I completely disagree of course
Exactly. So, the first beast is present during the entire 7 year period. The political beast continues and is worshipped as God during the latter half period. (However the death is potentially a "wound to the head" meaning the destruction of the USA from which the beast arose as POTUS -- there by being a "deadly wound" to his "headship" as POTUS -- but nonetheless moving forward to be worshipped as God by the whole world of sinners and taking world leadership position over a one world government and one world religion and one world monetary system, etc.the whole point of the divide in Rev13 (mentioning of the second beast)
is for that mid point of the trib...
divided in half....the political beast receives a deadly wound
and that wound is healed by guess who's arrival...
Wrong. Line upon line and precept upon precept. It is also true that after the 1000 years, Satan will be loosed for a little season. The first beast who was thrown alive into the lake of fire will continue burning in the lake of fire and will not be released. He was thrown in alive. Satan will emerge in the body of the 666 beast. I don't care if anyone else sees it, the Lord showed me in scripture in the OT and Book of Revelation. It's what I see.Rev13 is not covering the Millennium too! only the trib
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