The Rapture is not Biblical, False Doctrine? But accepted?

[toLiJC]

The Rapture is not Biblical, False Doctrine?

But accepted?

Can't find the word rapture in my bible only accepted by a lot Christian circles, why?

Does Satan wants to deceive us and make us lose hope, be afraid?

Does anybody has a Biblical answer?

there will be centuries of paradisaical life in this world after the first end (Revelation 20)

the devil brings only delusion and destruction for humans

Blessings

 

[Biblewriter]

The Word always bears witness with no less than two or three accounts. Where else does the Word teach that the Lord God removes His people, and their godly influence, from taken land to prevent their genocide? Scripture plainly teaches that the righteousness of God remains, but that which is evil and not willing to submit to Him is removed.
There is nothing new under the sun (Son). Nor does God ever change His ways! The New Testament is hidden within the Old Testament. The New Testament is the revealing of the Old Testament.
So where am I in denial? The Word is spirit, which is to say that it cannot be observed with the naked eye. It is life to those that find it!
I wish you peace Brother.

In case you did not notice, I cited two scriptures, not just one. And I could cite a number of others. But that would be pointless. When God declares something in plain words. Once is enough.

 

[mark kennedy]

The Rapture is not Biblical, False Doctrine?

But accepted?

Can't find the word rapture in my bible only accepted by a lot Christian circles, why?

Does Satan wants to deceive us and make us lose hope, be afraid?

Does anybody has a Biblical answer?

I never really believed in a pre-tribulation rapture for a number of reasons. I've read some on Dispensational End Time literature and I just don't see how they figure. One Dispensationalist on here did some bizarre interpretation that had the seals, trumpets and vials coming together instead of at the beginning (seals), middle (trumpets) and vials of wrath (near the end). I think the church faces the Antichrist, that's who the martyrs beneath the alter are (fifth seal) and how the armies of the Antichrist knows the Lamb is punishing them at the opening of the sixth seal.

I don't think it's Satanically inspired, I just don't think it's consistent with book of Revelations.

 

[Biblewriter]

I never really believed in a pre-tribulation rapture for a number of reasons. I've read some on Dispensational End Time literature and I just don't see how they figure. One Dispensationalist on here did some bizarre interpretation that had the seals, trumpets and vials coming together instead of at the beginning (seals), middle (trumpets) and vials of wrath (near the end). I think the church faces the Antichrist, that's who the martyrs beneath the alter are (fifth seal) and how the armies of the Antichrist knows the Lamb is punishing them at the opening of the sixth seal.

I don't think it's Satanically inspired, I just don't think it's consistent with book of Revelations.

I have no problem with this. I, of course, think you are mistaken. And we can discuss the correct interpretation of scripture till the cows come home. But my only beef is with those that circulate disinformation about the source of the concept.

 

[mark kennedy]

I have no problem with this. I, of course, think you are mistaken. And we can discuss the correct interpretation of scripture till the cows come home. But my only beef is with those that circulate disinformation about the source of the concept.

My only problem with the subject matter is it goes off on tangents. I think the fact that you need specialized theologies, Dispensational and Covenant theology respectively, speaks substantively to the limits of the material. What's more, before we get into a discussion of the Rapture it only makes sense that we discuss the promise of the resurrection in the gospel. Then perhaps emphasis the secondary nature of the subject of when it occurs, because among most believers the question is never if it will occur.

I've read a lot of your posts Biblewriter, they seem ok to me. My problem is that Dispensation and Covenant theologies are imposed on the Scripture as an interpretative template, guiding attention around the text rather then through it.

Grace and peace,
Mark

 

[mark kennedy]

Yes sir, you can give me two examples of scripture from the same letter, and examples from other books within the New Testament accounts. Jesus plainly stated, " Lo, I come in the whole volume of the Book."
What should cause you to seek Truth is to pour over all of Jesus's written testimony. As a senior member, such as yourself, you should find it apalling that somehow, God has changed.
There are many obscure written accounts, i.e., apophrygal, that do not even mention such an event. The book of the prophet Enoch says the wicked will be taken, and the righteous will remain. Noah and his family were kept and the wicked were removed. The book of Judges all plainly present Father God's nature of occupying the land through battles given to the righteous. The presence of the wicked was no more.
No sir! The only scriptures you can give as evidence of a rapture event will only come from the New Testament. The same argument you present, with the same scriptures, is the very same that all learned others with this ideology give as proof. Guard your heart and seek Him! For He is the Truth. Stop guarding wrong teaching. There is nothing there that will set you free.

Do these verses speak of the resurrection?

"As for me, I know that my Redeemer lives, And at the last He will take His stand on the earth. "Even after my skin is destroyed, Yet from my flesh I shall see God; (Job 19:25,26)

"Many of those who sleep in the dust of the ground will awake, these to everlasting life, but the others to disgrace and everlasting contempt. "Those who have insight will shine brightly like the brightness of the expanse of heaven, and those who lead the many to righteousness, like the stars forever and ever. (Daniel 12:2,3)
​

 

[Biblewriter]

Yes sir, you can give me two examples of scripture from the same letter, and examples from other books within the New Testament accounts. Jesus plainly stated, " Lo, I come in the whole volume of the Book."
What should cause you to seek Truth is to pour over all of Jesus's written testimony. As a senior member, such as yourself, you should find it apalling that somehow, God has changed.
There are many obscure written accounts, i.e., apophrygal, that do not even mention such an event. The book of the prophet Enoch says the wicked will be taken, and the righteous will remain. Noah and his family were kept and the wicked were removed. The book of Judges all plainly present Father God's nature of occupying the land through battles given to the righteous. The presence of the wicked was no more.
No sir! The only scriptures you can give as evidence of a rapture event will only come from the New Testament. The same argument you present, with the same scriptures, is the very same that all learned others with this ideology give as proof. Guard your heart and seek Him! For He is the Truth. Stop guarding wrong teaching. There is nothing there that will set you free.

I am not going to cotinue a childish argument. For me, as with all true Christians, that fact that Gd said it is enough,even if it should happen that He only said it once.

 

[cantool]

Do these verses speak of the resurrection?

"As for me, I know that my Redeemer lives, And at the last He will take His stand on the earth. "Even after my skin is destroyed, Yet from my flesh I shall see God; (Job 19:25,26)

"Many of those who sleep in the dust of the ground will awake, these to everlasting life, but the others to disgrace and everlasting contempt. "Those who have insight will shine brightly like the brightness of the expanse of heaven, and those who lead the many to righteousness, like the stars forever and ever. (Daniel 12:2,3)
​

Indeed, I believe they do speak of a resurrection. But as you mentioned already, theologies of various denominations severely cloud interpretation. Even with Greek and Hebrew translations, what can be trusted as truth? Even so, who really wants to know the truth?
Most view this topic as an observable event though the Bible implicitly says it will not come with observation.
Rather than settle one's salvation on such an event, it is far wiser to seek the kingdom of God and His righteousness. Once that is done, I believe the answers to all mysteries in Christ will be revealed to them who seek Him.

 

[Francisco36842]

The Rapture is not Biblical, False Doctrine?

But accepted?

Can't find the word rapture in my bible only accepted by a lot Christian circles, why?

Does Satan wants to deceive us and make us lose hope, be afraid?

Does anybody has a Biblical answer?

Jesus, Himself, said,

However, no one knows the day or the hour when these things will happen, not even the angels in heaven or the Son himself. Only the Father knows. (NLT, Matthew 24:36)

Jesus also said we should not believe anyone who claims to be the Messiah or anyone who claims to know when He is coming again. The second coming of Jesus will be sudden, unexpected and unmistakable, like lightning flashing across the sky (Matthew 24:23-51, Mark 13:21-23, 13:32-37 Luke 17:20-37). The important thing is not to know when or how the end will come, but to be spiritually prepared when it does (Matthew 25:1-13 Matthew 24:42-44, Luke 21:34-36, 1 Thessalonians 5:2-3).

 

[Francisco36842]

Dispensationalism
A theory of Bible interpretation known as Dispensationalism was developed in the 1700s and 1800s, primarily by theologians Pierre Poiret (1646 - 1719), John Edwards (1637 - 1716), Isaac Watts (1674 - 1748) and John Nelson Darby (1800 - 1882). Dispensationalism favors a very literal interpretation of Bible prophecies and gives unique interpretations and special significance to end-times events. These theories were popularized by the Scofield Reference Bible, first published in 1909.1
In Dispensational theology, the Rapture will be the centerpiece of Jesus' second coming - a glorious, dramatic event with Jesus coming to literally take believers up into the sky. There are several theories about the timing of the Rapture:

• Pre-tribulational rapture: When John ascends to heaven (Revelation 4:1-2). In this theory, Christians will be taken up before the Great Tribulation (Daniel 9:24-27, Revelation 7:14) and will be spared its suffering.
• Mid-tribulational rapture: When the two prophets ascend to heaven (Revelation 11:11-12)
• Post-tribulational rapture: At the end of the seven bowls (Revelation 16:17-21)

 

[Francisco36842]

What is the Rapture?
The word Rapture does not appear in the Bible. It comes from the Latin word rapare which means "seize", "snatch" or "take away." The term Rapture is used to refer to the faithful believers being taken up to meet Christ in the air as described in this passage written by the apostle Paul:
But we do not want you to be uninformed, brothers and sisters, about those who have died, so that you may not grieve as others do who have no hope. For since we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so, through Jesus, God will bring with him those who have died. For this we declare to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive, who are left until the coming of the Lord, will by no means precede those who have died. For the Lord himself, with a cry of command, with the archangel's call and with the sound of God's trumpet, will descend from heaven, and the dead in Christ will rise first. Then we who are alive, who are left, will be caught up in the clouds together with them to meet the Lord in the air; and so we will be with the Lord forever. (NRSV, 1 Thessalonians 4:13-17)

Apparently, doubts had arisen among the Thessalonian Christians regarding the fate of those Christians who had died before Christ returned. Would they miss out on the glorious events of Christ's second coming and the resurrection? Paul assured them in this way that God would save those who had already died, as well as those still living.

Interpretation
Paul did not provide any other details of this event, and it is not mentioned elsewhere in the Bible. Questions about the details and timing of the Rapture are not answered in the Bible. The lack of details has led to different theories and interpretations.

From the pamphlet, The Rapture:



The Catholic and biblically correct view:



Pope St. Peter gives a balanced view:



From the Catechism:

 

[Hank77]

Apparently, doubts had arisen among the Thessalonian Christians regarding the fate of those Christians who had died before Christ returned. Would they miss out on the glorious events of Christ's second coming and the resurrection? Paul assured them in this way that God would save those who had already died, as well as those still living.

 

[marineimaging]

The Rapture is not Biblical, False Doctrine?

But accepted?

Can't find the word rapture in my bible only accepted by a lot Christian circles, why?

Does Satan wants to deceive us and make us lose hope, be afraid?

Does anybody has a Biblical answer?

There are a lot of different positions on this and usually you will find many quotes of verse. You asked for a "biblical" answer. I believe this is biblical but not verse for verse. It has been well explained how "rapture" is referred. We all agree with that. But as for the actual rapture, see if it fits this. We know we will be raptured to be caught up. There are two sources for the raptured at this point. First the dead (in the grave) then the living (those of us if we are still alive on that day) in Christ. The tribulation is not a test of acceptance of Christ because many who will be caught up from the grave did not have that same test and yet were of Christ. No, the tribulation is a failure of Satan and his followers to lead the whole of human civilization to battle with him as leader. Those who have already given themselves to Christ will be caught to avoid the horrendous turmoil and will be so since there is no longer any need to witness to any person in the world. Our day of reckoning has come. The dead AND the living in Christ have served as required. Why would our Lord allow the dead to avoid the turmoil of the tribulation but the living have to go through it? Is it that much of a crapshoot? No, we living and those dead IN CHRIST will be delivered and be in the presence of the Lord as promised by Jesus as fulfillment of His word. The dead shall not be required to go through this most bleak of times on earth (there will be nothing like it in the history of mankind) and the living who have given their souls to Jesus will not be required to go through it. We will be taken to our heavenly reward, but there will be sinners on earth left to decided and they will be known as the tribulation saints. They will receive their salvation eternal, but not the reward of the rapture.

 

[JacksBratt]

There are a lot of different positions on this and usually you will find many quotes of verse. You asked for a "biblical" answer. I believe this is biblical but not verse for verse. It has been well explained how "rapture" is referred. We all agree with that. But as for the actual rapture, see if it fits this. We know we will be raptured to be caught up. There are two sources for the raptured at this point. First the dead (in the grave) then the living (those of us if we are still alive on that day) in Christ. The tribulation is not a test of acceptance of Christ because many who will be caught up from the grave did not have that same test and yet were of Christ. No, the tribulation is a failure of Satan and his followers to lead the whole of human civilization to battle with him as leader. Those who have already given themselves to Christ will be caught to avoid the horrendous turmoil and will be so since there is no longer any need to witness to any person in the world. Our day of reckoning has come. The dead AND the living in Christ have served as required. Why would our Lord allow the dead to avoid the turmoil of the tribulation but the living have to go through it? Is it that much of a crapshoot? No, we living and those dead IN CHRIST will be delivered and be in the presence of the Lord as promised by Jesus as fulfillment of His word. The dead shall not be required to go through this most bleak of times on earth (there will be nothing like it in the history of mankind) and the living who have given their souls to Jesus will not be required to go through it. We will be taken to our heavenly reward, but there will be sinners on earth left to decided and they will be known as the tribulation saints. They will receive their salvation eternal, but not the reward of the rapture.

I agree. Also, when you think about it... if Christians are being killed for their belief, during the tribulation period... how many would be left to be raptured at the end of a seven year killing spree of believers?

Could any of you survive, for seven years, in this world, as a believer, if you could not work, buy or sell?

If you think you could.... tell me how you figure that.

 

[marineimaging]

I agree. Also, when you think about it... if Christians are being killed for their belief, during the tribulation period... how many would be left to be raptured at the end of a seven year killing spree of believers?

Could any of you survive, for seven years, in this world, as a believer, if you could not work, buy or sell?

If you think you could.... tell me how you figure that.

Absolutely. We are currently going through the worst flooding in the history of the US right now - in Houston. It will take years to recover. I have been through three floods and each time every day for almost a year was a struggle. Yet, I know I was blessed to have the means to come out them unharmed in the sense of not horrible. Not like Israel has bore so many times. Not like the Jewish people under Hitler. Not like the Spanish inquisition or certainly not like the Christians in the middle east today. Not like the POWs under the Japanese or those against the likes of Chinese communists. I can imagine the days of the tribulation will be like nothing the earth has experienced. The US might be buried under feet of volcanic ash. Those surviving will have to give up their belief in God, or watch as their children turn them in to be beheaded. Their family members might be cannibals..., it will be unlike anything mankind has experienced and possibly making the holocaust pale in comparison. No, why should we be forced to go through that when we have publically declared our faith in Jesus, the Messiah of all mankind? I would love for my next encounter with the Lord to be as described, heir of a mansion that he prepared for me. To live in His presence and present my crown to Him for His glory, not mine. If I must live through the tribulation I would rather walk up and give my head to the block knowing where I am going and knowing that I cannot help in leading another soul to Christ.

 

[Copperhead]

I have found, generally, that following the example of the Bereans in Acts 17 is a good way of cutting thru things. Especially in light of the Mosaic Law prescription that any issue can only be determined on the testimony of at least two witnesses. And we have those... the OT and the NT. All the Bereans had was the OT to test if what Paul taught them was correct. Just about every doctrinal position from the NT is supported in the OT. The task is to take all of scripture and follow where it leads with no preconceptions. Can clear up a lot of misinterpretation.

Yes, even a pre-trib rapture can be seen in various passages in the OT. Maybe just me, but I feel even more so than in the NT. And one doesn't have to dig into meanings of original languages either. We get all caught up in trying to make the case, generally, from the NT alone, when the OT has more to say about end times than the NT. And while maybe folks that have placed their trust in Messiah are not bound to all the legal prescriptions under the Mosaic Law, the OT and NT are a unified scripture that are in total agreement. God is the same yesterday, today, and forever.

And in their zeal sometimes, many folks just plain forget the principles of basic reading comprehension that they should have been taught and have a handle on in grade school.