The Rapture is not Biblical, False Doctrine? But accepted?

[Biblewriter]

So based on posts on this thread the false teaching of the secret rapture is attributed to the "early fathers of the church". This is the same church that persecuted millions for not believing as they did in the dark ages. They killed millions according to history. So why would I want to use that church's teaching as a means of salvation.

Why do you you think the LORD allowed the reformation if "the church" had the everlasting Gospel?

How about a Biblical example.

God's chosen people, the Jewish nation, were to take the Gospel to the world, that was their duty. They failed miserably at it to the point that the Lord came to this earth as the SON OF MAN to point out their errors and to give the Gospel to the Gentiles which the Jews had not done. (This was not his only reason for coming as the SON OF MAN)
Daniel 9:24
Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy.

Notice what Jesus told the Disciples,
5 These twelve Jesus sent forth, and commanded them, saying, Go not into the way of the Gentiles, and into any city of the Samaritans enter ye not:
6 But go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.

The Gospel went to the House of Israel until they sealed their fate with the stoning of Steven. This completed the seventy week prophecy "Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people" and the Gospel went to the Gentiles.

The reformers were inspired by GOD to bring back the Gospel to man that "the church" had perverted just as the leaders of the Jewish nation had done.

So as for the early writings indicating a rapture what makes you think that Satan,who knows the scriptures better than anyone except GOD, has not been planting his deception of the TRUTH since the Garden of Eden. He deceived the Jewish leaders and has deceived the early "fathers of the church" whom you all seem to like to quote for Biblical truth.

It has already been correctly pointed out, that the persecution of real Christians by alleged Christians, did not begin until a long time after the latest of the writers I quoted.

But I did not quote these very ancient statements as having any authority whatsoever. I quoted then entirely to disprove the false claim that the doctrine of a rapture before the great tribulation was never taught before the early 1800s. This has zero signifiance in regard to the truth or falsehood of what they taught.

I believe some parts of what these men said, and do not believe other parts of what they said. The fact that they said anything has zero spiritual significance. But it does have historical significance.

I have devoted a very significant amount of research to ancient writings, including, but not limited to the writings of historical Christian figures. And I have written extensively on what historical individuals actually said. Most of this writing has been devoted to disproving false claims about historical teachings.

 

[cantool]

So based on posts on this thread the false teaching of the secret rapture is attributed to the "early fathers of the church". This is the same church that persecuted millions for not believing as they did in the dark ages. They killed millions according to history. So why would I want to use that church's teaching as a means of salvation.

Why do you you think the LORD allowed the reformation if "the church" had the everlasting Gospel?

How about a Biblical example.

God's chosen people, the Jewish nation, were to take the Gospel to the world, that was their duty. They failed miserably at it to the point that the Lord came to this earth as the SON OF MAN to point out their errors and to give the Gospel to the Gentiles which the Jews had not done. (This was not his only reason for coming as the SON OF MAN)
Daniel 9:24
Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy.

Notice what Jesus told the Disciples,
5 These twelve Jesus sent forth, and commanded them, saying, Go not into the way of the Gentiles, and into any city of the Samaritans enter ye not:
6 But go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.

The Gospel went to the House of Israel until they sealed their fate with the stoning of Steven. This completed the seventy week prophecy "Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people" and the Gospel went to the Gentiles.

The reformers were inspired by GOD to bring back the Gospel to man that "the church" had perverted just as the leaders of the Jewish nation had done.

So as for the early writings indicating a rapture what makes you think that Satan,who knows the scriptures better than anyone except GOD, has not been planting his deception of the TRUTH since the Garden of Eden. He deceived the Jewish leaders and has deceived the early "fathers of the church" whom you all seem to like to quote for Biblical truth.

You give Satan far too much credit when you say that even He understands scripture! And why would Jesus teach in parables, and tell His 12 that only they were to understand the meaning?
Everyone loves to give their interpretations of scripture. Who has sought out God for His interpretation? Then let him speak. Others should shut their mouths.

 

[Kenneth Redden]

May the word, "superscription," by "also" in Luke 23:38; represent, "stars," by "also" in Genesis 1:16?

 

[DoubtfulSalvation]

hahahah someone didn't study. Hopefully this doesn't make you lose you salvation as some people on this forum believe.

 

[Kenneth Redden]

Whatever it means (and I have my opinion); it will be obvious to all when it happens. So not having seen it (yet), I know that there will be no mistaking it when it happens. Not a chance.

It may be obvious to all; however, I believe there is a greater message here, regarding the KJV Bible. But you will never see it from your present perspective. You must follow Paul's demonstration in all the epistles, in order to understand.
This may be a reference to the KJV Bible. First via, "coat", which is "without seam, woven from the top throughout", in John 19:23 and second, using "superscription," that was written over him, on the cross at Calvary in letters of Greek, and Latin, and Hebrew." This is like the Greek, and English, and Hebrew of the KJV Bible, today. And there is our word, "also," in Luke 23:38; for further clarification.

 

[harkpuff]

The Rapture is not Biblical, False Doctrine?

But accepted?

Can't find the word rapture in my bible only accepted by a lot Christian circles, why?

Does Satan wants to deceive us and make us lose hope, be afraid?

Does anybody has a Biblical answer?

The term "Trinity" is not in Scripture either, but the principal of the "Three In One" God Head IS in scripture, which has been labeled "Trinity", or the "Three in One" by believers over the years simply for the sake of simply identifying the principal in one single word. Which, in itself, this is not a sin or crime.
Same way with the rapture, a word which simply means "to be taken up". Regardless of what you call it, the principal of the being taken up or raptured is definitely in the Bible.
No different than giving a child with a difficult to pronounce name a nickname for the sake of convenience.
The truth of the concept or principal is what is important, not the handle you use to describe it.
So....no, it's not false doctrine because it is a future event described in scripture that will take place. And instead of having to describe it as that "whatcha macall it thingy"....where the true church will be taken up from this earth that will happen in the future...... We can simply say "the Rapture" and everyone knows what you are talking about.

 

[Ron Gurley]

RAPTURE...comes from the Latin "rapturo"(?) = ~caught up, snatched, raptured

RETURN...RESURRECTION...RAPTURE...REUNION

....a predicted event happening on the Mount of Olives near Jerusalem:

BEFORE the end of the TRIBULATION / GREAT TRIBULATION:

SEE: Matthew 24: 4-28

and AT (?) his SECOND COMING:

See: Matthew 24: 29-31

To the Church in Philadelphia:
Revelations 3:10...
10....I will also keep you from the hour of trial that is going to come upon the whole world to test those who live on the earth. 11 I am coming soon.

Revelations 19: 11-16....The Rider on the White Horse
11 I saw heaven standing open and there before me was a white horse, whose rider is called Faithful and True.
With justice he judges and makes war.
12 His eyes are like blazing fire, and on his head are many crowns.
He has a name written on him that no one knows but he himself.
13 He is dressed in a robe dipped in blood, and his name is the Word of God.
14 The armies of heaven were following him, riding on white horses and dressed in fine linen, white and clean.
15 Out of his mouth comes a sharp sword with which to strike down the nations.
"He will rule them with an iron scepter."
He treads the winepress of the fury of the wrath of God Almighty.
16 On his robe and on his thigh he has this name written:
KING OF KINGS AND LORD OF LORDS.


Why RAPTURE?:..."encourage each other with these words..."

1 Thessalonians 1:10
10 and to wait for his Son from heaven, whom he raised from the dead—Jesus, who rescues us from the coming wrath.

THE RAPTURE:

1 Thessalonians 4: 13-18 (NIV)....RETURN - RESURRECTION - RAPTURE - REUNION

13 Brothers (BELIEVERS), we do not want you to be ignorant about those who fall asleep (Body dies),
or to grieve like the rest of men (UNBELIEVERS), who have no hope.(...BELIEVERS have hope/faith in eternal life )
14 We (BELIEVERS) believe that Jesus died and rose again and
so we believe that God will bring with Jesus those who have fallen asleep (Body dies) in (BELIEVING IN) him.
15 According to the Lord's own word, we tell you that we (BELIEVERS) who are still alive,
who are left till the (SECOND) coming of the Lord, will certainly not precede those who have fallen asleep (Body died).
16 For the Lord himself (Jesus) will COME DOWN from HEAVEN, (in the Resurrected Spirit-Body of Jesus?)
with a loud command, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet call of God,
and the dead (bodies) in Christ (BELIEVERS) will rise first.
17 After that, we (BELIEVERS) who are still alive and are left will be caught up (snatched/raptured)
together with them ("dead in Christ") in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air (spiritual "heaven").
And so we will be with the Lord forever....(body/soul/spirit reunited and in the presence of Jesus in heaven)
18 Therefore encourage each other with these words.

RETURN - RESURRECTION - RAPTURE - REUNION

1 Corinthians 15...Resurrection bodies
42 So will it be with the resurrection of the dead.
The body that is sown is perishable, it is raised imperishable;
43 it is sown in dishonor, it is raised in glory;
it is sown in weakness, it is raised in power;
44 it is sown a natural body, it is raised a spiritual body.
If there is a natural body, there is also a spiritual body.
45 So it is written:
"The first man Adam became a living being";
the last Adam, a life-giving spirit.
46 The spiritual did not come first, but the natural, and after that the spiritual.
47 The first man was of the dust of the earth, the second man from heaven.
48 As was the earthly man, so are those who are of the earth; and as is the man from heaven,
so also are those who are of heaven.
49 And just as we have borne the likeness of the earthly man,
so shall we bear the likeness of the man from heaven.


2 Corinthians 5 (NIV)...Our Heavenly Dwelling
1 Now we know that if the earthly tent we live in (BODY) is destroyed, we have a building from God, an eternal house (PLACE) in heaven, not built by human hands.
2 Meanwhile we groan, longing to be clothed with our heavenly dwelling, (SPIRIT BODIES)
3 because when we are clothed, we will not be found naked.
4 For while we are in this tent (BODY), we groan and are burdened, because we do not wish to be unclothed but to be clothed with our heavenly dwelling, (SPIRIT BODIES)
so that what is mortal (BODY) may be swallowed up by life.(SPIRIT)
5 Now it is God who has made us for this very purpose
and has given us the Spirit (indwelling HOLY SPIRIT of God) as a deposit, GUARANTEEING what is to come.
6 Therefore we are always confident and know that as long as
we are at home in the BODY we are away from the Lord. (SPIRITUAL PRESENCE)
7 We live by faith, not by sight.
8 We are confident, I say, and would prefer to be away from the BODY and at home (HEAVEN) with the Lord.(SPIRITUAL PRESENCE)
9 So we make it our goal to please him, whether we are at home in the body or away from it.
10 For we (BELIEVERS) must all appear before the "judgment (bema = awards platform) seat of Christ", that each one may receive what is due him for the things done (WORKS) while in the BODY,
whether good or bad....
14 For Christ's love compels us, because we are convinced that one died for all, and therefore all died.
15 And he died for all, that those who live should no longer live for themselves but for him
who died for them and was raised again....

Be reconciled to God. 21 God made him who had no sin to be sin for us (SUBSTiTUTiON), so that in him we might become the righteousness of God.

Acts 1: 6-11...(The "Ascension")

6 So when they (12 disciples minus Judas) met together (the FINAL time), they asked him, (the Resurrected Jesus in His "SPIRIT/ NEW BODY)
"Lord, are you at this time going to restore the (God dwelling) kingdom to Israel?"
7 He said to them: "It is not for you to know the times or dates the Father has set by his own authority.
8 But you will receive power when the Holy Spirit comes on you;
and you will be my witnesses in Jerusalem, and in all Judea and Samaria, and to the ends of the earth."
9 After he said this, he was TAKEN UP before their very eyes, and a CLOUD hid him from their sight.
10 They were looking intently up into the SKY as he was going,
when suddenly two men dressed in white (angels) stood beside them.
11 "Men of Galilee," they said, "why do you stand here looking into the SKY?
This same Jesus, who has been taken from you into HEAVEN,
will COME BACK in the same way you have (just) seen him go into HEAVEN."

Where?

Zechariah 14:4
On that day his feet will stand on the Mount of Olives, east of Jerusalem, and the Mount of Olives will be split in two from east to west, forming a great valley, with half of the mountain moving north and half moving south

The Great Commission...Jesus' Last Words on Earth ...Matthew 28
16 Then the eleven disciples went to Galilee, to the mountain (of Olives) where Jesus had told them to go. (prior meeting place)
17 When they saw him, they worshiped him; but some doubted.
(what they were seeing)
18 Then Jesus came to them and said, "All authority in HEAVEN and on EARTH has been given to me.
19 Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, = (TRI-UNE God)
20 and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you.
And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age.".(..and until the NEW HEAVENS?)

The Second Coming starts the Millenium? When?

Revelation 20....The Thousand Years
1 And I saw an angel coming down out of heaven, having the key to the Abyss and holding in his hand a great chain.
2 He seized the dragon, that ancient serpent, who is the devil, or Satan, and bound him for a thousand years.
3 He threw him into the Abyss, and locked and sealed it over him,
to keep him from deceiving the nations anymore until the thousand years were ended.

AND "NEW HEAVENS": Revelation 21:3-4
Now the dwelling of God is with men, and He will live with them.
They will be his people, and God himself will be with them and be their God (TRI-UNE God)
4 He will wipe every tear from their eyes. There will be no more death or mourning or crying or pain,
for the old order of things has passed away."

 

[sparow]

RAPTURE...comes from the Latin "rapturo"(?) = ~caught up, snatched, raptured

RETURN...RESURRECTION...RAPTURE...REUNION

....a predicted event happening on the Mount of Olives near Jerusalem:

BEFORE the end of the TRIBULATION / GREAT TRIBULATION:

SEE: Matthew 24: 4-28

and AT (?) his SECOND COMING:

See: Matthew 24: 29-31

To the Church in Philadelphia:
Revelations 3:10...
10....I will also keep you from the hour of trial that is going to come upon the whole world to test those who live on the earth. 11 I am coming soon.

Revelations 19: 11-16....The Rider on the White Horse
11 I saw heaven standing open and there before me was a white horse, whose rider is called Faithful and True.
With justice he judges and makes war.
12 His eyes are like blazing fire, and on his head are many crowns.
He has a name written on him that no one knows but he himself.
13 He is dressed in a robe dipped in blood, and his name is the Word of God.
14 The armies of heaven were following him, riding on white horses and dressed in fine linen, white and clean.
15 Out of his mouth comes a sharp sword with which to strike down the nations.
"He will rule them with an iron scepter."
He treads the winepress of the fury of the wrath of God Almighty.
16 On his robe and on his thigh he has this name written:
KING OF KINGS AND LORD OF LORDS.


Why RAPTURE?:..."encourage each other with these words..."

1 Thessalonians 1:10
10 and to wait for his Son from heaven, whom he raised from the dead—Jesus, who rescues us from the coming wrath.

THE RAPTURE:

1 Thessalonians 4: 13-18 (NIV)....RETURN - RESURRECTION - RAPTURE - REUNION

13 Brothers (BELIEVERS), we do not want you to be ignorant about those who fall asleep (Body dies),
or to grieve like the rest of men (UNBELIEVERS), who have no hope.(...BELIEVERS have hope/faith in eternal life )
14 We (BELIEVERS) believe that Jesus died and rose again and
so we believe that God will bring with Jesus those who have fallen asleep (Body dies) in (BELIEVING IN) him.
15 According to the Lord's own word, we tell you that we (BELIEVERS) who are still alive,
who are left till the (SECOND) coming of the Lord, will certainly not precede those who have fallen asleep (Body died).
16 For the Lord himself (Jesus) will COME DOWN from HEAVEN, (in the Resurrected Spirit-Body of Jesus?)
with a loud command, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet call of God,
and the dead (bodies) in Christ (BELIEVERS) will rise first.
17 After that, we (BELIEVERS) who are still alive and are left will be caught up (snatched/raptured)
together with them ("dead in Christ") in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air (spiritual "heaven").
And so we will be with the Lord forever....(body/soul/spirit reunited and in the presence of Jesus in heaven)
18 Therefore encourage each other with these words.

RETURN - RESURRECTION - RAPTURE - REUNION

1 Corinthians 15...Resurrection bodies
42 So will it be with the resurrection of the dead.
The body that is sown is perishable, it is raised imperishable;
43 it is sown in dishonor, it is raised in glory;
it is sown in weakness, it is raised in power;
44 it is sown a natural body, it is raised a spiritual body.
If there is a natural body, there is also a spiritual body.
45 So it is written:
"The first man Adam became a living being";
the last Adam, a life-giving spirit.
46 The spiritual did not come first, but the natural, and after that the spiritual.
47 The first man was of the dust of the earth, the second man from heaven.
48 As was the earthly man, so are those who are of the earth; and as is the man from heaven,
so also are those who are of heaven.
49 And just as we have borne the likeness of the earthly man,
so shall we bear the likeness of the man from heaven.


2 Corinthians 5 (NIV)...Our Heavenly Dwelling
1 Now we know that if the earthly tent we live in (BODY) is destroyed, we have a building from God, an eternal house (PLACE) in heaven, not built by human hands.
2 Meanwhile we groan, longing to be clothed with our heavenly dwelling, (SPIRIT BODIES)
3 because when we are clothed, we will not be found naked.
4 For while we are in this tent (BODY), we groan and are burdened, because we do not wish to be unclothed but to be clothed with our heavenly dwelling, (SPIRIT BODIES)
so that what is mortal (BODY) may be swallowed up by life.(SPIRIT)
5 Now it is God who has made us for this very purpose
and has given us the Spirit (indwelling HOLY SPIRIT of God) as a deposit, GUARANTEEING what is to come.
6 Therefore we are always confident and know that as long as
we are at home in the BODY we are away from the Lord. (SPIRITUAL PRESENCE)
7 We live by faith, not by sight.
8 We are confident, I say, and would prefer to be away from the BODY and at home (HEAVEN) with the Lord.(SPIRITUAL PRESENCE)
9 So we make it our goal to please him, whether we are at home in the body or away from it.
10 For we (BELIEVERS) must all appear before the "judgment (bema = awards platform) seat of Christ", that each one may receive what is due him for the things done (WORKS) while in the BODY,
whether good or bad....
14 For Christ's love compels us, because we are convinced that one died for all, and therefore all died.
15 And he died for all, that those who live should no longer live for themselves but for him
who died for them and was raised again....

Be reconciled to God. 21 God made him who had no sin to be sin for us (SUBSTiTUTiON), so that in him we might become the righteousness of God.

Acts 1: 6-11...(The "Ascension")

6 So when they (12 disciples minus Judas) met together (the FINAL time), they asked him, (the Resurrected Jesus in His "SPIRIT/ NEW BODY)
"Lord, are you at this time going to restore the (God dwelling) kingdom to Israel?"
7 He said to them: "It is not for you to know the times or dates the Father has set by his own authority.
8 But you will receive power when the Holy Spirit comes on you;
and you will be my witnesses in Jerusalem, and in all Judea and Samaria, and to the ends of the earth."
9 After he said this, he was TAKEN UP before their very eyes, and a CLOUD hid him from their sight.
10 They were looking intently up into the SKY as he was going,
when suddenly two men dressed in white (angels) stood beside them.
11 "Men of Galilee," they said, "why do you stand here looking into the SKY?
This same Jesus, who has been taken from you into HEAVEN,
will COME BACK in the same way you have (just) seen him go into HEAVEN."

Where?

Zechariah 14:4
On that day his feet will stand on the Mount of Olives, east of Jerusalem, and the Mount of Olives will be split in two from east to west, forming a great valley, with half of the mountain moving north and half moving south

The Great Commission...Jesus' Last Words on Earth ...Matthew 28
16 Then the eleven disciples went to Galilee, to the mountain (of Olives) where Jesus had told them to go. (prior meeting place)
17 When they saw him, they worshiped him; but some doubted.
(what they were seeing)
18 Then Jesus came to them and said, "All authority in HEAVEN and on EARTH has been given to me.
19 Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, = (TRI-UNE God)
20 and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you.
And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age.".(..and until the NEW HEAVENS?)

The Second Coming starts the Millenium? When?

Revelation 20....The Thousand Years
1 And I saw an angel coming down out of heaven, having the key to the Abyss and holding in his hand a great chain.
2 He seized the dragon, that ancient serpent, who is the devil, or Satan, and bound him for a thousand years.
3 He threw him into the Abyss, and locked and sealed it over him,
to keep him from deceiving the nations anymore until the thousand years were ended.

AND "NEW HEAVENS": Revelation 21:3-4
Now the dwelling of God is with men, and He will live with them.
They will be his people, and God himself will be with them and be their God (TRI-UNE God)
4 He will wipe every tear from their eyes. There will be no more death or mourning or crying or pain,
for the old order of things has passed away."

I cannot handle these walls of words and I really do not think dispensationalists are affected by other peoples interpretations of scripture because their problem is at the narrative or paradigm level; that vessel that they interpret the scriptures into.

The word "rapture" is a Latin word and would appear in a Latin translations and the Latin thesis - Futurism; RAPURE is a doctrine and not Biblical, that requires several pages, (more than a word); it confuses the Millennium and both sides of the Millennium.

 

[Savethewhiterhino]

RAPTURE...comes from the Latin "rapturo"(?) = ~caught up, snatched, raptured
RETURN...RESURRECTION...RAPTURE...REUNION
....a predicted event happening on the Mount of Olives near Jerusalem:
BEFORE the end of the TRIBULATION / GREAT TRIBULATION:
......

So you aren't pre-Trib rapture, but not entirely post-Trib neither?

 

[marineimaging]

The Rapture is not Biblical, False Doctrine?

But accepted?

Can't find the word rapture in my bible only accepted by a lot Christian circles, why?

Does Satan wants to deceive us and make us lose hope, be afraid?

Does anybody has a Biblical answer?

Do you sincerely think that all of these well studied, life committed pastors would make such a tremendous error as to say something of this magnitude without knowledge of the scriptures to back it up? We will be taken up to be with the Lord free and clear of the worst of the worst that will happen under the antichrist. When you consider how bad the Jews had it in WWII and how bad the Christians of today are being treated in China and the Middle East, I don't think we are going to be free and clear of horrendous treatment. I think that we are going to be free and clear of the deceit that will be administered by the antichrist. Five minutes, five years, five centuries, It doesn't matter to me. I will stand by my Lord and Savior if He raptures me before, during, or after the Tribulation. I have already hurt close to enough that death is welcome. Death has no hold on me. Torture, I pray will never come. But if it does, let it be swift.

 

[Biblewriter]

It is legitimate to debate the timing of the event that has come to be called "the rapture." But it is not legitimate to debate whether or not this event will actually take place. The scriptures declare that it will indeed take place. And they declare it in explicit, clear, language. The exact words of scripture are:
13 But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope. 14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him. 15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep. 16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: 17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord. 18 Wherefore comfort one another with these words. 1 Thessalonians 4:13-18

 

[rockytopva]

As far as I am concerned...

1. If you do not believe in salvation stay lost
2. If you do not believe in sanctification stay in the flesh
3. If you do not believe you need the Holy Ghost don't seek the baptism.
4. If you do not believe in healing stay sick.
5. If you do not believe in prosperity stay poor.

And....

If you do not believe in the rapture remain on planet earth!

 

[cantool]

In reply to Ron Gurley and all others that are still observing the skies for the King of Glory to return, it ain't happening! At least not this way.
You guys honestly do read scripture, and can probably quote the Bible, but never paid attention to what was written. Instead, due to that new found Hope exploding inside your souls when you asked to be saved, you listened to all those religious people (like you at their same beginning). You have been led astray like a sheep.
Jesus always taught in parables. His Word is in parable form. True disciples understand the meaning within parables spoken by their Lord. Those disciples are called the Son's of God for a reason. Not religiously speaking, of course, but because the Spirit of the Son of God lives within their flesh encased, born from above spirits.
Truth is, every son of God has been caught up already! Every Son (and Daughter) of God has been, as most say, "Raptured" by the Spirit of God (Jesus)! Again, the truth, Jesus has come to this world many many times already. Whenever a Son has been revealed, He is here to sweep His Bride off Her feet and take Her for Himself; to seat Her in heavenly places; onto His throne, seated at the right hand of our Father! Where the rudiments and the elements of this world no longer matter to them. Son's and Daughters are at liberty to live a God kind of life.
"Caught up in the air," actually means to be 'caught up from the ground to the mountain top' , where the Lord God resides. God is ever present in the mountain top! Jesus transformed before his disciples where? On the top of the mountain of Olives.
Isn't it written, "Those that have an ear to hear, let them hear what the Spirit is saying?" Study all you like. Knowledge is good! But in all your getting, get understanding!
In all your getting, seek first the kingdom of God, and all those other things that matter (paraphrased) will be added unto you.
Love you all!

 

[HighCherub]

I'm going to get a lot of flak for saying this Lol



Contrary to what many people think- including even non believers- the 'Rapture' is not an orthodox or accepted notion in the traditional Protestant or Catholic churches.

It is something that exists largely among independent and Baptist churches who have adopted Darbyist notions. They are mostly American and they are almost all otherwise Dispensationalists.

The bulk of Christianity rejects a rapture- John Calvin even mocked it as a fiction not even worth a rebuttal when it was still in it's infancy five centuries ago. Somehow, Darby managed to suck everyone back in a long time after_

 

[Biblewriter]

I'm going to get a lot of flak for saying this Lol



Contrary to what many people think- including even non believers- the 'Rapture' is not an orthodox or accepted notion in the traditional Protestant or Catholic churches.

It is something that exists largely among independent and Baptist churches who have adopted Darbyist notions. They are mostly American and they are almost all otherwise Dispensationalists.

The bulk of Christianity rejects a rapture- John Calvin even mocked it as a fiction not even worth a rebuttal when it was still in it's infancy five centuries ago. Somehow, Darby managed to suck everyone back in a long time after_

Whether or not any particular group of people believe a doctrine, is not even a significant argument. The only thing that counts is whether or not it agrees with the Bible.

 

[Biblewriter]

In reply to Ron Gurley and all others that are still observing the skies for the King of Glory to return, it ain't happening! At least not this way.
You guys honestly do read scripture, and can probably quote the Bible, but never paid attention to what was written. Instead, due to that new found Hope exploding inside your souls when you asked to be saved, you listened to all those religious people (like you at their same beginning). You have been led astray like a sheep.
Jesus always taught in parables. His Word is in parable form. True disciples understand the meaning within parables spoken by their Lord. Those disciples are called the Son's of God for a reason. Not religiously speaking, of course, but because the Spirit of the Son of God lives within their flesh encased, born from above spirits.
Truth is, every son of God has been caught up already! Every Son (and Daughter) of God has been, as most say, "Raptured" by the Spirit of God (Jesus)! Again, the truth, Jesus has come to this world many many times already. Whenever a Son has been revealed, He is here to sweep His Bride off Her feet and take Her for Himself; to seat Her in heavenly places; onto His throne, seated at the right hand of our Father! Where the rudiments and the elements of this world no longer matter to them. Son's and Daughters are at liberty to live a God kind of life.
"Caught up in the air," actually means to be 'caught up from the ground to the mountain top' , where the Lord God resides. God is ever present in the mountain top! Jesus transformed before his disciples where? On the top of the mountain of Olives.
Isn't it written, "Those that have an ear to hear, let them hear what the Spirit is saying?" Study all you like. Knowledge is good! But in all your getting, get understanding!
In all your getting, seek first the kingdom of God, and all those other things that matter (paraphrased) will be added unto you.
Love you all!

Your error lies in the one word "always." Jesus, and the scriptures often taught in parables. But Jesus and the scriptures also taught plainly in clear words. And whenever they explicitly said that "such-and-such" is going to happen, what they meant was exactly what they said. That is why Jesus said "For assuredly, I say to you, till heaven and earth pass away, one jot or one tittle will by no means pass from the law till all is fulfilled." Matthew 5:18

 

[cantool]

You are absolutely correct in saying all you said in this post! Jesus did fulfill all the Law of Moses. Then came the new heaven and Earth.
This last statement has hung all the 'Rapture' folks up since the belief of the current Raptured theory was brought out back in the early 1830's. The old heaven aforetime was beyond the stars ( man's perspective ), now Heaven is within His Sons. The new Earth comes from a combo of close and intimate relationship with Jesus, praying in the spirit, speaking His Word, and not in the least of these things is renewing your mind (repent).
The huge screw up that virtually all church-goers get wrong is reading scripture and interpreting what they read with their own knowledge and understanding. Jesus said that His Word is spirit and therefore, life to the reader. If spiritual, how can flesh interpret that?

 

[Biblewriter]

You are absolutely correct in saying all you said in this post! Jesus did fulfill all the Law of Moses. Then came the new heaven and Earth.
This last statement has hung all the 'Rapture' folks up since the belief of the current Raptured theory was brought out back in the early 1830's. The old heaven aforetime was beyond the stars ( man's perspective ), now Heaven is within His Sons. The new Earth comes from a combo of close and intimate relationship with Jesus, praying in the spirit, speaking His Word, and not in the least of these things is renewing your mind (repent).
The huge screw up that virtually all church-goers get wrong is reading scripture and interpreting what they read with their own knowledge and understanding. Jesus said that His Word is spirit and therefore, life to the reader. If spiritual, how can flesh interpret that?

This doctrine has been conclusively proven to have been taught throughout the history of the church, not just since the 1839s.

 

[cantool]

The idea of the Raptured has surely been bandied about since the beginning of the Last Days, but I am quite sure it went mainstream around 1833. The Scofield Bible was the first Bible printed with a commentary that leaned heavily on the church being taken away, or Raptured.
As to the Word teaching 'plainly', Who cause the Word to be recorded, and to whom was the Word recorded for? Not to all inhabitants of the Earth. But to those that would seek Him and His kingdom. To them ( His disciples) He said would be able to understand what is written. Those of the world have not a clue of the secret things of the Most High. His Word is bread and meat for His children, and never meant for even the wisest of the world.
The man of flesh is at enmity with God and will never believe what God has said. Flesh man is that abomination that stands in the temple of desolation. It's not the devil, though man is still evil apart from God. Read the last few chapters of Nehemiah and see what happens to that man. He wasn't Raptured by no means. The Bible isn't a book of doom and gloom. It is of a Father's great compassion and mercy reaching out to His creation. And to those that He has drawn to Himself, by His own Spirit, He enables them to have intimacy with Him. Those Kind are changed from the inside, then change comes to the outside; Jesus spoke this to the pharasee about cleaning the outside of a cup and not cleaning the inside. The important place to clean first. Not the outside for 'show'.
In any respects, the teaching of a physical rapture is a doctrine brought about by demons. Not Jesus.

 

[Biblewriter]

The idea of the Raptured has surely been bandied about since the beginning of the Last Days, but I am quite sure it went mainstream around 1833. The Scofield Bible was the first Bible printed with a commentary that leaned heavily on the church being taken away, or Raptured.
As to the Word teaching 'plainly', Who cause the Word to be recorded, and to whom was the Word recorded for? Not to all inhabitants of the Earth. But to those that would seek Him and His kingdom. To them ( His disciples) He said would be able to understand what is written. Those of the world have not a clue of the secret things of the Most High. His Word is bread and meat for His children, and never meant for even the wisest of the world.
The man of flesh is at enmity with God and will never believe what God has said. Flesh man is that abomination that stands in the temple of desolation. It's not the devil, though man is still evil apart from God. Read the last few chapters of Nehemiah and see what happens to that man. He wasn't Raptured by no means. The Bible isn't a book of doom and gloom. It is of a Father's great compassion and mercy reaching out to His creation. And to those that He has drawn to Himself, by His own Spirit, He enables them to have intimacy with Him. Those Kind are changed from the inside, then change comes to the outside; Jesus spoke this to the pharasee about cleaning the outside of a cup and not cleaning the inside. The important place to clean first. Not the outside for 'show'.
In any respects, the teaching of a physical rapture is a doctrine brought about by demons. Not Jesus.

This is a flat denial of explicitly stated scripture.

1Th 4:16 For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first. 17 Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And thus we shall always be with the Lord. 1 Thessalonians 4:16-17

and

1Co 15:51 Behold, I tell you a mystery: We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed-- 52 in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. 1 Corinthians 15:51-52