The Rapture - heretical teaching

IS THE RAPTURE A HERETICAL TEACHING?

  • YES

  • NO


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Interplanner

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Jack,
you might be interested though in the amount of Gentile detail that shows up in the Gospel accounts. The Cyrene who carries the cross part way. The Roman commander whose servant was healed. The good Samaritan.

But also check this. When Jesus was accused of being demon-possessed and a Samaritan, he denied being possessed. But he never denied being a Samaritan. Because he is a "new" man: Jew-Gentile-Swedish-Mayan-Mongolian-Botswanan-Samaritan.
 
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shturt678s

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Jack,
you might be interested though in the amount of Gentile detail that shows up in the Gospel accounts. The Cyrene who carries the cross part way.

This one off the top was no doubt Simon, a Jew (Acts2:10) coming to the Temple for services when the Romans snatched him up thus the law still separated the Cyrenians from the Gentile although this strange contact with Jesus led to his conversion with the indwelling of the Holy Spirit where the law no longer separated after Pentecost.

The Roman commander whose servant was healed. The good Samaritan.

But also check this. When Jesus was accused of being demon-possessed and a Samaritan, he denied being possessed. But he never denied being a Samaritan. Because he is a "new" man: Jew-Gentile-Swedish-Mayan-Mongolian-Botswanan-Samaritan.

Old Jack :thumbsup:
 
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ebedmelech

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I agree that it is legitimate to debate the timing of the rapture. That is not where I fault you. I fault you for refusing to believe that God will again bless the physical nation of Israel in their ancient homeland, after He returns.
That's not a fault of mine. We'll see how that works out.
This is stated in plain words in too many scriptures to count. And there is not even one New Testament scripture that even hints at an idea that this will not actually happen.
I won't even do this with you again. When it doesn't happen are you going to tell God it's His fault?
 
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The "spiritual Israel" imagined to be in the New Testament is a human invention. You cannot find it in the text.

Bible Writer no longer could Israelites claim favour as God’s chosen people.

They had failed to keep the national agreement made at Mount Sinai.

They had failed to maintain undefiled worship of God, but permitted human traditions and human philosophy to corrupt it.

They failed to receive the One whom God had promised to send, but rejected him for Caesar and instigated his violent death.

For these reasons they were cut off from being God’s holy nation.

Their material house of worship was abandoned by God, just as Jesus said:

“Jerusalem, Jerusalem, the killer of the prophets and stoner of those sent forth to her how often I wanted to gather your children together, the way a hen gathers her chicks together under her wings! But you people did not want it. Look! your house is abandoned to you.”—Matt. 23:37, 38.

Proof of this abandonment came with the destruction of Jerusalem 70 C.E. at which time the temple was destroyed for the last time.

No longer could God’s worship be carried on at the place he had chosen and in the manner specified in the law covenant.

A New Covenant was now inaugurated which was a Spiritual arrangement by Jesus Christ, the fleshly nation Israel was now doomed, although the casting off of the Jewish national house of worship did not mean that individual Jews couldn't come into God’s favour.

The rejecting of that nation did not mean the rejecting of every individual in it, for a remnant of the nation did exercise faith and was brought into the new covenant Spiritual Israel was it not?
 
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JLB777

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Bible Writer no longer could Israelites claim favour as God’s chosen people.

They had failed to keep the national agreement made at Mount Sinai.

They had failed to maintain undefiled worship of God, but permitted human traditions and human philosophy to corrupt it.

They failed to receive the One whom God had promised to send, but rejected him for Caesar and instigated his violent death.

For these reasons they were cut off from being God’s holy nation.

Their material house of worship was abandoned by God, just as Jesus said:

“Jerusalem, Jerusalem, the killer of the prophets and stoner of those sent forth to her how often I wanted to gather your children together, the way a hen gathers her chicks together under her wings! But you people did not want it. Look! your house is abandoned to you.”—Matt. 23:37, 38.

Proof of this abandonment came with the destruction of Jerusalem 70 C.E. at which time the temple was destroyed for the last time.

No longer could God’s worship be carried on at the place he had chosen and in the manner specified in the law covenant.

A New Covenant was now inaugurated which was a Spiritual arrangement by Jesus Christ, the fleshly nation Israel was now doomed, although the casting off of the Jewish national house of worship did not mean that individual Jews couldn't come into God’s favour.

The rejecting of that nation did not mean the rejecting of every individual in it, for a remnant of the nation did exercise faith and was brought into the new covenant Spiritual Israel was it not?


May 14, 1948 ?
 
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May 14, 1948 ?

Modern Israel is governed as a secular democracy that officially makes no claim to rely on the God of the Bible.

Did the Israelis in 1948 recognize God as the one responsible for their declaration of statehood?

Definitely not.
 
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iamlamad

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That's not a fault of mine. We'll see how that works out.

I won't even do this with you again. When it doesn't happen are you going to tell God it's His fault?

When it doesn't happen?

The chance of that is just the same as the chances of God ceasing to exist.
IF He continues, He will fulfill His word. Plain and simple.

LAMAD
 
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iamlamad

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May 14, 1948 ?

The vision of the valley of dry bones fulfilled!!!!!!!!!!!

Never in the history of our planet has a nation so thoroughly defeated came back to being a nation with the same name and same language! It is a great miracle of God for all to see.

Lamad
 
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rockytopva

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Behold, I come as a thief. Blessed is he that watcheth, and keepeth his garments, lest he walk naked, and they see his shame.
- Revelation 16:15

If the rapture were mid or post trib then it would be well announced. But it will happen days as of Noah and Lot, where it was everyday normal life, and then destruction.
 
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The vision of the valley of dry bones fulfilled!!!!!!!!!!!

Never in the history of our planet has a nation so thoroughly defeated came back to being a nation with the same name and same language! It is a great miracle of God for all to see.

Lamad

Even if they wanted to rebuild the temple on its divinely appointed site they could not do so, because a Mohammedan mosque sits on the spot.

They are also missing a certified priesthood.

The destruction of the genealogical records 70C.E. makes it impossible for modern-day Jews to re-establish the Aaronic priesthood in order to carry on the priestly duties required by the Mosaic law.

Also the republic of Israel received its existence from the powers of this world, and it has sought recognition from those powers.

It has become part of the worldly system of things.

This is contrary to the instructions God gave to their ancestors.

He told them not to seek help from Egypt, which is a symbol of the world.

Isaiah 31:1
New International Version (NIV)

Woe to Those Who Rely on Egypt

31 Woe to those who go down to Egypt for help, who rely on horses, who trust in the multitude of their chariots and in the great strength of their horsemen, but do not look to the Holy One of Israel, or seek help from the Lord.

Instead of chariots and horsemen, the modern State of Israel is trusting in tanks, jet planes, motorized columns and the like.

It ignores God’s purposes to rule this earth by his own government and by the King he has chosen.

As that King Jesus Christ was rejected for Caesar by Israel in the first century, so he is rejecting Israel in this twentieth century.

It is therefore a mistake iamlamad to think the present-day return of Jews to Palestine has God’s backing.
 
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Biblewriter

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Bible Writer no longer could Israelites claim favour as God’s chosen people.

They had failed to keep the national agreement made at Mount Sinai.

They had failed to maintain undefiled worship of God, but permitted human traditions and human philosophy to corrupt it.

They failed to receive the One whom God had promised to send, but rejected him for Caesar and instigated his violent death.

For these reasons they were cut off from being God’s holy nation.

Their material house of worship was abandoned by God, just as Jesus said:

“Jerusalem, Jerusalem, the killer of the prophets and stoner of those sent forth to her how often I wanted to gather your children together, the way a hen gathers her chicks together under her wings! But you people did not want it. Look! your house is abandoned to you.”—Matt. 23:37, 38.

Proof of this abandonment came with the destruction of Jerusalem 70 C.E. at which time the temple was destroyed for the last time.

No longer could God’s worship be carried on at the place he had chosen and in the manner specified in the law covenant.

A New Covenant was now inaugurated which was a Spiritual arrangement by Jesus Christ, the fleshly nation Israel was now doomed, although the casting off of the Jewish national house of worship did not mean that individual Jews couldn't come into God’s favour.

The rejecting of that nation did not mean the rejecting of every individual in it, for a remnant of the nation did exercise faith and was brought into the new covenant Spiritual Israel was it not?


What you are saying is the very opposite of what we are clearly told in Romans 11:28-29, "Concerning the gospel they are enemies for your sake, but concerning the election they are beloved for the sake of the fathers. For the gifts and the calling of God are irrevocable." (Romans 11:28-29)

Do you have any idea what the word "irrevocable" means? It is explained in the scriptures themselves.

This is stated in great plainness in the 89th Psalm, where God made his eternal promise to David: After the promise was made, God said:

“If his sons forsake My law
And do not walk in My judgments,
If they break My statutes
And do not keep My commandments,
Then I will punish their transgression with the rod,
And their iniquity with stripes.
Nevertheless My lovingkindness I will not utterly take from him,
Nor allow My faithfulness to fail.
My covenant I will not break,
Nor alter the word that has gone out of My lips.”
(Psalm 89:30-34)

Here God very explicitly said that his promise to David could not even be canceled by sin. He made it clear that He would deal with any sin that might be committed, but that the promise would still stand unchanged.

And when you quoted scripture to back up your claim you stopped one verse too soon.

Jesus continued: "for I say to you, you shall see Me no more till you say, 'Blessed is He who comes in the name of the LORD!' " (Matthew 23:39)

We find this again in Romans 11:25, where we read, "For I do not desire, brethren, that you should be ignorant of this mystery, lest you should be wise in your own opinion, that blindness in part has happened to Israel until the fullness of the Gentiles has come in." (Romans 11:25)


This "till" and "until" do not mean "unless." Jesus and the Holy Spirit, speaking through the Apostle Paul, both spoke of a time when this rejection and blindness would end.

The scriptures are full of places where we are told both of this rejection and of the fact that it would only be temporary.

Romans 9:25-26.

As an example, in Hosea 2:23 we read, “Then I will sow her for Myself in the earth, And I will have mercy on her who had not obtained mercy; Then I will say to those who were not My people, ‘You are My people!’ And they shall say, ‘You are my God!’” The second part, “And it shall come to pass in the place where it was said to them, ‘You are not My people,’ There they shall be called sons of the living God.” is a quotation from Hosea 1:10, where we read, “Yet the number of the children of Israel Shall be as the sand of the sea, Which cannot be measured or numbered. And it shall come to pass In the place where it was said to them, ‘You are not My people,’ There it shall be said to them, ‘You are sons of the living God.’”

In both of these places, some might imagine that these passages refer to the church. But a close examination shows that this is cannot even possibly be their meaning. Looking at the last passage first, for it was first in the Order God gave them in Hosea, verses 1-9 of Hosea 1 detail God’s rejection of “the house of Israel.” (verse 8) Then we read the wonderful promise that, even though they were rejected, “it shall come to pass In the place where it was said to them, ‘You are not My people,’ There it shall be said to them, ‘You are sons of the living God.’” This blessing, “You are sons of the living God,” was not to be said to someone else, but “it shall be said to them.” The very ones to whom God had said, “Lo-ruhamah” (not pitied) and “Lo-ammi” (not my people,) would be told, “You are sons of the living God.” But they would not only be told this, but they would be told this in the very place where they had been so cursed. This is concluded in the first verse of chapter 2. (We must remember that the chapter and verse divisions in our Bibles were added by man, there were no such divisions in the scriptures when God first gave them. And in some places the divisions actually break up what God was saying.) So God concluded this portion of his holy word by saying, “Say to your brethren, ‘My people,’ And to your sisters, ‘Mercy is shown.’” (Hosea 2:1) To whom were these words to be said? To the church? No. They were to be said “to your brethren.” and “to your sisters.” Whose “brethren” and “sisters” were to be told “My people,” and “Mercy is shown.”? The very ones to whom it was said “Lo-ruhamah” and “Lo-ammi.” These were unquestionably the sinning “house of Israel.” No scripture anywhere even suggests the idea that either the church or its individual members are the “brethren” and “sisters” of the “house of Israel.”
 
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Jack Terrence

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What you are saying is the very opposite of what we are clearly told in Romans 11:28-29, "Concerning the gospel they are enemies for your sake, but concerning the election they are beloved for the sake of the fathers. For the gifts and the calling of God are irrevocable." (Romans 11:28-29)
Note the words in your statement that I highlighted in blue bold. The gifts and callings are irrevokable to the the election sir! It's about the chosen remnant!

5 Even so then, at this PRESENT time there is a REMNANT according to the election of grace. 6 And if by grace, then it is no longer of works; otherwise grace is no longer grace. But if it is of works, it is no longer grace; otherwise work is no longer work.

Note too that Paul said "at this PRESENT time." Line upon line sir! No future salvation taught.
 
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iamlamad

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Even if they wanted to rebuild the temple on its divinely appointed site they could not do so, because a Mohammedan mosque sits on the spot.

They are also missing a certified priesthood.

The destruction of the genealogical records 70C.E. makes it impossible for modern-day Jews to re-establish the Aaronic priesthood in order to carry on the priestly duties required by the Mosaic law.

Also the republic of Israel received its existence from the powers of this world, and it has sought recognition from those powers.

It has become part of the worldly system of things.

This is contrary to the instructions God gave to their ancestors.

He told them not to seek help from Egypt, which is a symbol of the world.

Isaiah 31:1
New International Version (NIV)

Woe to Those Who Rely on Egypt

31 Woe to those who go down to Egypt for help, who rely on horses, who trust in the multitude of their chariots and in the great strength of their horsemen, but do not look to the Holy One of Israel, or seek help from the Lord.

Instead of chariots and horsemen, the modern State of Israel is trusting in tanks, jet planes, motorized columns and the like.

It ignores God’s purposes to rule this earth by his own government and by the King he has chosen.

As that King Jesus Christ was rejected for Caesar by Israel in the first century, so he is rejecting Israel in this twentieth century.

It is therefore a mistake iamlamad to think the present-day return of Jews to Palestine has God’s backing.

So you call it a coincidence? How amazing.

Well, they did not believe Jesus' miracles in His day either.

LAMAD
 
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ebedmelech

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What you are saying is the very opposite of what we are clearly told in Romans 11:28-29, "Concerning the gospel they are enemies for your sake, but concerning the election they are beloved for the sake of the fathers. For the gifts and the calling of God are irrevocable." (Romans 11:28-29)

Do you have any idea what the word "irrevocable" means? It is explained in the scriptures themselves.
Not when you understand what Paul is saying Biblewriter. The "gifts and calling" are the gifts of the Spirit and the calling for salvation. This applies to Israel here, but this is also true of all believers. This doesn't make your case!
This is stated in great plainness in the 89th Psalm, where God made his eternal promise to David: After the promise was made, God said:

“If his sons forsake My law
And do not walk in My judgments,
If they break My statutes
And do not keep My commandments,
Then I will punish their transgression with the rod,
And their iniquity with stripes.
Nevertheless My lovingkindness I will not utterly take from him,
Nor allow My faithfulness to fail.
My covenant I will not break,
Nor alter the word that has gone out of My lips.”
(Psalm 89:30-34)

Here God very explicitly said that his promise to David could not even be canceled by sin. He made it clear that He would deal with any sin that might be committed, but that the promise would still stand unchanged.
This Psalm is of the "Davidic Covenant". A covenant God made with David ALONE and NOT all of Israel. The Psalm itself says so! This is the promise of Christ as Peter tells the Jews clearly in his Pentecost sermon in Acts 2. Christ is on the throne of David! God has fulfilled this Biblewriter! Jesus is Lord!!!
And when you quoted scripture to back up your claim you stopped one verse too soon.

Jesus continued: "for I say to you, you shall see Me no more till you say, 'Blessed is He who comes in the name of the LORD!' " (Matthew 23:39)
This will not occur until the last day though.
We find this again in Romans 11:25, where we read, "For I do not desire, brethren, that you should be ignorant of this mystery, lest you should be wise in your own opinion, that blindness in part has happened to Israel until the fullness of the Gentiles has come in." (Romans 11:25)


This "till" and "until" do not mean "unless." Jesus and the Holy Spirit, speaking through the Apostle Paul, both spoke of a time when this rejection and blindness would end.

The scriptures are full of places where we are told both of this rejection and of the fact that it would only be temporary.
However it has nothing to do with the Old Covenant. This is done out of God's grace. He owes Israel NOTHING, they broke the covenant and Jesus instituted a New Covenant. The Old Covenant ended at the cross! All the promises are fulfilled in Christ! Romans 15 tells you that...read it.
Romans 9:25-26.

As an example, in Hosea 2:23 we read, “Then I will sow her for Myself in the earth, And I will have mercy on her who had not obtained mercy; Then I will say to those who were not My people, ‘You are My people!’ And they shall say, ‘You are my God!’” The second part, “And it shall come to pass in the place where it was said to them, ‘You are not My people,’ There they shall be called sons of the living God.” is a quotation from Hosea 1:10, where we read, “Yet the number of the children of Israel Shall be as the sand of the sea, Which cannot be measured or numbered. And it shall come to pass In the place where it was said to them, ‘You are not My people,’ There it shall be said to them, ‘You are sons of the living God.’”

In both of these places, some might imagine that these passages refer to the church. But a close examination shows that this is cannot even possibly be their meaning. Looking at the last passage first, for it was first in the Order God gave them in Hosea, verses 1-9 of Hosea 1 detail God’s rejection of “the house of Israel.” (verse 8) Then we read the wonderful promise that, even though they were rejected, “it shall come to pass In the place where it was said to them, ‘You are not My people,’ There it shall be said to them, ‘You are sons of the living God.’” This blessing, “You are sons of the living God,” was not to be said to someone else, but “it shall be said to them.” The very ones to whom God had said, “Lo-ruhamah” (not pitied) and “Lo-ammi” (not my people,) would be told, “You are sons of the living God.” But they would not only be told this, but they would be told this in the very place where they had been so cursed. This is concluded in the first verse of chapter 2. (We must remember that the chapter and verse divisions in our Bibles were added by man, there were no such divisions in the scriptures when God first gave them. And in some places the divisions actually break up what God was saying.) So God concluded this portion of his holy word by saying, “Say to your brethren, ‘My people,’ And to your sisters, ‘Mercy is shown.’” (Hosea 2:1) To whom were these words to be said? To the church? No. They were to be said “to your brethren.” and “to your sisters.” Whose “brethren” and “sisters” were to be told “My people,” and “Mercy is shown.”? The very ones to whom it was said “Lo-ruhamah” and “Lo-ammi.” These were unquestionably the sinning “house of Israel.” No scripture anywhere even suggests the idea that either the church or its individual members are the “brethren” and “sisters” of the “house of Israel.”
Biblewriter this is really just a terrible rendering of Hosea. Paul is quoting Hosea to show there is ONE Israel made up of Jews and Gentiles. The apostle is backing up his point that "they are NOT all Israel that are descended from Israel.

You're making that case and you don't even know it. However your view is diametrically opposite of the point the apostle is making. We KNOW this by how he sums up the argument at Romans 9:30-33:
30 What shall we say then? That Gentiles, who did not pursue righteousness, attained righteousness, even the righteousness which is by faith;
31 but Israel, pursuing a law of righteousness, did not arrive at that law.
32 Why? Because they did not pursue it by faith, but as though it were by works. They stumbled over the stumbling stone,
33 just as it is written, “Behold, I lay in Zion a stone of stumbling and a rock of offense, And he who believes in Him will not be disappointed.”

This conclusion by the apostle is showing Israel fell short Biblewriter!

As I told you before in another thread...you have missed the boat...you, Darby, Scofield, and anyone else that are saying this is what the passage is teaching. It's teaching there is a "Spiritual Israel" made up of Jews and Gentiles!
 
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ebedmelech said in post 174:

It's teaching there is a "Spiritual Israel" made up of Jews and Gentiles!

That's right.

All genetic Jews are part of genetic Israel (Romans 9:3-5). But being part of the true, spiritual Israel, the true, spiritual seed of Abraham, the promised seed, isn't based on genetics (Romans 9:6-24), but on God's election (Romans 9:11), which includes both some Jews and some Gentiles (Romans 9:24).

All believing Jews and all believing Gentiles are part of the true Israel (Ephesians 2:12,19, Romans 11:17,24, Revelation 21:9,12; 1 Peter 2:9-10, John 10:16), the seed of Abraham (Galatians 3:28-29, Romans 4:16-17), the promised seed, just as Isaac was (Galatians 4:28). And so all Gentiles in the church, along with all Jews in the church, are heirs of all the promises made by God to Israel (Ephesians 3:6, Ephesians 2:12,19, Galatians 3:29, Romans 15:27).

In Romans 9:8, by "the children of the flesh", Paul means genetic Jews, who are the genetic children of Abraham (Romans 11:1, Acts 13:26, John 8:37). And by "the children of God"/"the children of the promise", Paul means the elect, both some Jews and some Gentiles (Romans 9:24, Galatians 4:28). Romans 9:6-8 means that not all Jews are elect (John 8:37-47, John 10:26) and that some Gentiles are elect (Romans 9:24, John 10:16, John 11:52). Only a remnant of genetic Israel is elect (Romans 9:27).
 
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rockytopva said in post 169:

Behold, I come as a thief. Blessed is he that watcheth, and keepeth his garments, lest he walk naked, and they see his shame. - Revelation 16:15

In Revelation 16:15, Jesus is encouraging and warning those in the church who will still be alive on the earth at the time of the 6th vial (Revelation 16:12, near the end of the future tribulation), still waiting for his coming as a thief, to hang on just a little longer until his 2nd coming in Revelation 19:7 to 20:3, right after the destruction of Revelation's symbolic (and worldwide) "Babylon" at the 7th vial (Revelation 16:17,19, Revelation 19:2 to 20:3). Revelation 16:15 could be the same blessing as Daniel 12:11-12.

Daniel 12:11-12 and Revelation 16:15 could mean that 1,335 literal days after the abomination of desolation (possibly a standing, android image of the Antichrist) is set up in the holy place (the inner sanctum) of a 3rd Jewish temple in Jerusalem (Matthew 24:15, Daniel 11:31), Jesus' 2nd coming will occur, and blessed are those believers who wait and remain obedient until that day. If the literal 1,260 days of the Antichrist's worldwide reign (Revelation 13:5-8, Revelation 12:6) will begin when the abomination of desolation is set up, and if the 7 vials of God's wrath will begin on the day after the 1,260 days of the Antichrist's worldwide reign (Revelation 11:15,19, Revelation 15:5 to 16:1), and if the first 6 vials will be poured out over 30 days, then the 6th vial could be poured out on the 1,290th day after the abomination of desolation is set up (Daniel 12:11).

It is on this 1,290th day that the blessing of Daniel 12:12 and Revelation 16:15 could be given, after the 6th vial has been poured out (Revelation 16:12), encouraging those in the church who will still be alive on the earth at that time to keep holding on just 45 more days until Jesus' 2nd coming on the 1,335th day. The 45 days could be taken up by the gathering together of the world's armies to Armageddon (Revelation 16:14,16) (Har Megiddo: Mount Megiddo in northern Israel) and then their moving south to pillage Jerusalem, right before Jesus' 2nd coming and their total defeat (Zechariah 14:2-21, Revelation 19:19-21).

rockytopva said in post 169:

If the rapture were mid or post trib then it would be well announced. But it will happen days as of Noah and Lot, where it was everyday normal life, and then destruction.

The unsaved people of the world will have no idea that most of them are going to be killed at Jesus' 2nd coming until it happens (Matthew 24:37-39). For they could think that the 2nd coming had already occurred with the coming into power of the Antichrist's miracle-working False Prophet (Revelation 13:13-14, Revelation 19:20), who could claim to be Jesus returned. And just as the people of the world shortly before Noah's flood, even though they could see or hear about Noah building his huge ark, no doubt rejected the idea that YHWH had the power to actually cause a global flood which would kill them, so the people of the world at the end of the future tribulation could reject the idea that YHWH has the power to actually defeat them.

For during the tribulation's 2nd half, the world will see the power of Lucifer (Satan, the dragon) and his fallen angels (Revelation 12:9), and the power Lucifer will give to the Antichrist to take over the entire earth (Revelation 13:4-8), and to utterly revile YHWH year after year without being destroyed (Revelation 13:5-6, Daniel 11:36), and to physically overcome and kill people in the church in every nation (Revelation 13:7-10, Revelation 14:12-13, Revelation 20:4-6, Matthew 24:9-13). And the world will see the amazing miraculous powers that Lucifer will give to the Antichrist's False Prophet, by which he will be able to even call fire down from heaven in the sight of everyone (Revelation 13:13, cf. 2 Thessalonians 2:9).

And near the end of the future tribulation, the world will see the Antichrist's defeat of YHWH's amazingly-powerful two witnesses (Revelation 11:3-9), after which defeat the world will rejoice and make merry and send gifts to each other because the two witnesses had been sending plagues on the world (Revelation 11:10,6). And even though those plagues will be shortly followed by even more plagues from YHWH, poured out directly from heaven (Revelation 16, the tribulation's final stage), the people of the world won't lose their confidence that YHWH can still be defeated. For after almost all of the plagues from heaven are over, the world will see the awesome miraculous powers of some unclean spirits, convincing the world's armies to gather together for a battle against YHWH (Revelation 16:13-14, Revelation 19:19). And so the world could come to that battle at the very end of the tribulation with the same careless attitude as some people at the start of the American Civil War, who held picnics at the expected first battleground of Bull Run/Manassas to watch the battle and what they expected to be a quick and easy victory.
 
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spiritandtruth2 said in post 170:

The destruction of the genealogical records 70C.E. makes it impossible for modern-day Jews to re-establish the Aaronic priesthood in order to carry on the priestly duties required by the Mosaic law.

Even though there are no genealogical records to prove which Jewish males alive today are descended from Aaron and so could serve as priests (Exodus 29:9), unclean spirits could have this knowledge and pass it on to a future, ultra-Orthodox Jewish false "Messiah". For unclean spirits can pass on to unbelievers true knowledge (Acts 16:16-18), just as they can give unbelievers miraculous powers (Matthew 24:24; 2 Thessalonians 2:9).

This false "Messiah" is referred to in parts of the book of Daniel.

In Daniel 9:26, the original Hebrew word (karath, H3772) translated as "cut off" can refer to when a peace treaty/covenant is "made" (Genesis 21:27). The first century AD fulfillment of Daniel 9:26a was at the Crucifixion, when the true Messiah, Jesus, made the New Covenant (Matthew 26:28, Hebrews 9:15-17). The future fulfillment of Daniel 9:26a will be when the Antichrist makes a peace treaty, which will be the fulfillment of the covenant in Daniel 9:27 and the league in Daniel 11:23, with a future, ultra-Orthodox Jewish false Messiah in Jerusalem, after he and his followers are defeated by the Antichrist (Daniel 11:22-23). So the future fulfillment of Daniel 9:26a can refer to this false Messiah being "cut off" in the sense of being "covenanted", peace-treatied.

This treaty will allow this false Messiah and his followers to keep a 3rd Jewish temple which they will have built on Jerusalem's Temple Mount (after they or great earthquakes have destroyed the Muslim structures there), and to (mistakenly) continue to perform the daily Mosaic animal sacrifices in front of the temple for at least 7 years (Daniel 9:27a), so long as they give up the outer court of the temple (Revelation 11:2a) to the Muslims, so that the Muslims can rebuild the (by that time destroyed) Al Aqsa Mosque on the southern end of the Temple Mount and resume worship there. After "cutting" this treaty (Daniel 9:26a), the Antichrist could appear before the "many" (Daniel 9:27) nations represented at the U.N. General Assembly, and "confirm" (Daniel 9:27) that for at least 7 years he will keep this treaty with the ultra-Orthodox Jews in Jerusalem, using this as purported proof to the world that he is (in his words) "a man of peace, and no Hitler".

In Daniel 9:27, "he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease" refers to when, only some 3.5 years after making the peace treaty of Daniel 9:26a,27a and Daniel 11:23a, the Antichrist will break the treaty, attack the 3rd temple, stop the daily Mosaic animal sacrifices, place the abomination of desolation (possibly a standing, android image of the Antichrist) in the holy place (the inner sanctum) of the temple (Daniel 11:31, Matthew 24:15), and then sit himself in the temple and proclaim himself God (2 Thessalonians 2:4, Daniel 11:36). Thus could begin the Antichrist's future, literal 3.5-year Luciferian (Satanic) worldwide reign of terror (Revelation 13:4-18, Revelation 12:9; 2 Thessalonians 2:9).

spiritandtruth2 said in post 170:

Also the republic of Israel received its existence from the powers of this world, and it has sought recognition from those powers.

The rebudding of the fig tree (Matthew 24:32) can refer to the 1948 reestablishment of Israel, just as Jesus' cursing of the fig tree (Matthew 21:19) was symbolic of his curse on unbelieving, Old Covenant Israel (Matthew 21:43). The Israel that was reestablished in 1948 is the same Old Covenant Israel that Jesus cursed at his first coming. For it still rejects Jesus and still considers itself to be under the Old Covenant. This Israel merely "putting forth leaves" again (Matthew 24:32) in 1948 was nothing more than a restoration to what the fig tree in Matthew 21:19,43 had been before it was cursed forever by Jesus and then destroyed in 70 AD: a tree with leaves, but without any fruit. And the unbelieving, Old Covenant Israel that was reestablished in 1948 may never bear fruit. For it could be destroyed before Jesus' 2nd coming, during a future war, by a Baathist army, just as it had been destroyed in 70 AD by a Roman-empire army.
 
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random person said in post 158:

Matthew 25:31-34, 41

Matthew 25:31 doesn't mean that Matthew 25:32-46 (just as 2 Peter 3:10a doesn't mean that 2 Peter 3:10b) will happen immediately at Jesus' 2nd coming, only that it will happen sometime subsequent to his 2nd coming, at the great white throne judgment (Revelation 20:11-15), after the future millennium and subsequent events are over (Revelation 20:7-15).

Matthew 25:32-46 refers to the "nations" being judged by their works at the great white throne judgment (Revelation 20:12-13), whereas at the 2nd coming, Jesus will judge only those in the church (Psalms 50:3-5, cf. Mark 13:27; Matthew 25:19-30). Also, Matthew 25:41,46 refers to the unsaved being sent (at the time of Matthew 25:41,46) into the everlasting punishment of the lake of fire and brimstone at the great white throne judgment (Revelation 20:15), whereas at the 2nd coming, only the Antichrist (the individual-man aspect of the beast) and his False Prophet will be cast into the lake of fire (Revelation 19:20). The saved "sheep" at the sheep/goat judgment would include those who became believers during the millennium (Isaiah 66:19-21). Matthew 25:34 refers to obedient believers inheriting the kingdom of the Father on the new earth in New Jerusalem, the Father's house (Revelation 21:1-7, John 14:2).

random person said in post 158:

Thessalonians 1:6-10

2 Thessalonians 1:7-10 refers to Jesus' 2nd coming, which will occur before the millennium (Revelation 19:7 to 20:6, Zechariah 14:3-21). 2 Thessalonians 1:7-10 doesn't say that "all" the unsaved will be killed at the 2nd coming, for some will be left alive (Matthew 24:39b-40), and they will enter the millennium (Zechariah 14:16-19). Also, the "vengeance" and "everlasting destruction" at the 2nd coming (2 Thessalonians 1:8-9) won't be the lake of fire for everyone killed, just as "the vengeance of eternal fire" which came on Sodom and Gomorrah (Jude 1:7) wasn't the lake of fire for those killed. For only the Antichrist (the individual-man aspect of Revelation's "beast") and his False Prophet will be cast into the lake of fire at the 2nd coming (Revelation 19:20). The rest of the unsaved won't be cast into the lake of fire until after they have been bodily resurrected and judged at the great white throne judgment (Revelation 20:11-15). Between the 2nd coming (Revelation 19:7 to 20:3) and the great white throne judgment will occur the millennium (Revelation 20:4-6) and the subsequent Gog/Magog rebellion (Revelation 20:7-10, Ezekiel chapters 38-39).

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random person said in post 159:

John 5:25

"The hour is coming" (John 5:25) refers to the still-future time of the first resurrection, the physical resurrection of the church at Jesus' 2nd coming (Revelation 19:7 to 20:6; 1 Corinthians 15:21-23,51-53; 1 Thessalonians 4:15-16, Romans 8:23-25). In John 5:25, "and now is" referred to the time of Jesus' first coming, when he on the Cross "cried with a loud voice", and some dead people heard it and came back to life (Matthew 27:50,52).

random person said in post 159:

John 6:40

In John 6:39-40 and John 12:48, the original Greek word translated as the last "day" (hemera, G2250) doesn't have to mean the last 24-hour day, but can be used figuratively to refer to a much longer period of time (e.g. see the Greek of 2 Corinthians 6:2; 2 Peter 3:8, and John 8:56). John 6:39-48 and John 12:48 will occur in the last period of time of this present earth, but they won't occur on the same 24-hour day (Revelation 20:5).

When Jesus returns, only the church will be bodily resurrected and finally-judged (1 Corinthians 15:21-23, Revelation 20:5; Psalms 50:3-5, cf. Mark 13:27; Matthew 25:19-30; 2 Corinthians 5:10, Luke 12:45-48). The obedient part of the bodily resurrected church, including those in the church who had been beheaded by the Antichrist, will then reign on the earth with the returned Jesus for 1,000 years (Revelation 20:4-6, Revelation 5:10, Revelation 2:26-29, Psalms 66:3-4, Psalms 72:8-11, Zechariah 14:3-21). Only sometime after the 1,000 years and the subsequent Gog/Magog rebellion are over (Revelation 20:7-10, Ezekiel chapters 38-39) will the rest of the dead (of all times) be bodily resurrected (Revelation 20:5) and finally-judged at the great white throne judgment (Revelation 20:11-15).

random person said in post 159:

WHAT DAY?

The last days began in the first century AD with Jesus' first coming (Hebrews 1:2) and the Holy Spirit's pouring out at the Pentecost in Acts 2 (Acts 2:16-17). The last days can be the last 3, roughly 1,000-year "days" (2 Peter 3:8) of the 7, roughly 1,000-year "days" from the creation of Adam in roughly 4,000 BC to the future end of the present earth and the creation of the new earth (Revelation 21:1) in roughly 3,000 AD. So the last "days" can be the roughly 3,000 years from Jesus' first coming to sometime after the future millennium (Revelation 20:4-6), which will be part of the last, roughly 1,000-year "day" (2 Peter 3:8), which could begin at Jesus' (never fulfilled) 2nd coming (1 Corinthians 1:7-8).

random person said in post 159:

Peter 3:10-13

Regarding 2 Peter 3:10-13, in the day of the Lord will occur the destruction of heaven (the first heaven: the sky, the atmosphere) and the earth (the surface of the earth) at the great white throne judgment (Revelation 20:11, Revelation 21:1). And this will be followed by the creation of a new atmosphere and surface for the earth (2 Peter 3:13, Revelation 21:1) onto which New Jerusalem, God the Father's house (John 14:2, Revelation 21:2-3), will descend from the 3rd heaven (Revelation 21:2-3). But the day of the Lord won't immediately bring the destruction of earth's atmosphere and surface. For the day of the Lord will begin at Jesus' 2nd coming (1 Corinthians 1:7-8) as a thief (2 Peter 3:10a, Revelation 16:15). And after his 2nd coming, he will establish his kingdom physically on the earth with the bodily resurrected church for 1,000 years (Revelation 19:7 to 20:6, Revelation 5:10, Revelation 2:26-29, Psalms 66:3-4, Psalms 72:8-11, Zechariah 14:3-21).

And after the 1,000 years, the Gog/Magog rebellion will occur (Revelation 20:7-10, Ezekiel chapters 38-39). And after its defeat, at least 7 more years will occur (Ezekiel 39:9b), before the earth's atmosphere and surface are destroyed at the great white throne judgment (Revelation 20:11). All these events, from Jesus' 2nd coming to the great white throne judgment, will be part of the day of the Lord. For it is not a 24-hour day, but to God is like a 1,000-year "day" (2 Peter 3:8).
 
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