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The Qur'an

Adeeb

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Muslims believe that the Qur'an is the word of God(Allah) revealed to Muhammad(s.a.w.). Im guessing the christians believe that Muhammad wrote the Qur'an. I basically want to know why you think that the Qur'an is not the word of God and how would you explain scientific, philosophical, historical, geological, astronomical etc.,verses in the Qur'an.

Please do this on a rational and intellectual basis.
 

evange

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I believe the koran was not of divine orgin, becuase I have read it (in english). In my mind the koran was poorly pulled together, poorly laid out, poorly constructed, badly written. I know you believe that it's infalliable and has an amazing literary style and whatever. But when I read it I found that only an illiterate, devil-possesed, epileptic, superstisious, very messed up man could have written it.

I believe that God is great and amazing, and I believe it is right to give him praise for what he did. I see nothing great or praise worthy in the koran. Thus I will not credit God for such an abomination, as it would detract from his true glory.

There are many more reasons too:

Scientific: Much of the koran is just plain wrong, and it reflects the lack of information mohamed had

Moral/ethical: I just see what is written in the koran as a step backfor human rights. I think mohamed as not particularly gifted, and he had no ability to see past his own society, 6th century arabia. This is the 20th century, and I am canadian. The koran just doesnt strike a chord with me.

Ambiguity: The koran is not clear on anything important to me. It does not guarentee me salvation. I dont care about all the legalistic jargon in the koran, I just want some spiritual truths, and it has none.

Spiritual: Christianity fills my heart and makes me content, Islam does not. It's too legalistic and not spiritual.

Well anyway, there are many reasons that I believe the koran was baloney. If you want me to elaborate on any of them, just ask.
 
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divided sky

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Adeeb said:
Muslims believe that the Qur'an is the word of God(Allah) revealed to Muhammad(s.a.w.). Im guessing the christians believe that Muhammad wrote the Qur'an.

Well, someone had to write it down. If not Muhammad, then who? I realize it was revealed to Muhammad but at some point what was revealed was written down.

I basically want to know why you think that the Qur'an is not the word of God and how would you explain scientific, philosophical, historical, geological, astronomical etc.,verses in the Qur'an.

Please do this on a rational and intellectual basis.

I basically want to know why you think the Bible is not the word of God and how you would explain scientific, philosophical, historical, geological, astronomical etc verses in the Bible.
 
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IronPillar

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Take the Bible out of Koran.There is not much truth left in it.Christians don't believe that the God in heaven sent a prophet by the name Mohammad.
Then God spoke to Moses, telling him, "I am Yahweh. I appeared to Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob as God Almighty, but I did not make My name Yahweh known to them. " Exodus;6:2,3
Is this the God in the Koran? If Allah means God.and that God is the God of Abraham He got a Name and he revealed his Name.Then why do you still call him Allah?
[Just God !]

“The one who believes in the Son has eternal life, but the one who refuses to believe in the Son will not see life; instead, the wrath of God remains on him. 3:36
 
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saladin1970

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These are just a few of thousands of occasions where the Quran corrects the Bible.

whenever we find an idea that seems very strange in the bible, if we look in the Quran it puts that idea into perspective and corrects it. And this happens hundreds of times. Let us go through a few examples.

As we all know God is all powerful, all knowing. Yet the bible describes god as weak and needy.

"By the seventh day God had finished the work he had been doing so on the seventh day he rested from all his work. And God blessed the sevent day and made it holy, because on it he rested from all the work of creating that he had done" genesis 2:2.,

and again in Exodus 31:17. "In six days the Lord made heaven and earth, and on the 7th day he rested and was refreshed"

Now what does the Quran have to say.

"And verily we created the heavens and the earth and all that is between them in six periods, and NAUGHT of weariness touched us" Quran 50:38

Quran 2:255 "Neither slumber nor sleep overtakes him"
 
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saladin1970

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and some more

In Genesis 18:1-18 God eats food.

However God is self sufficent, and beyond needing or wanting anything of the things that sustain a human to live, such as food.

So what does the Quran have to say.
"say shall i take for my protectors other than Allah, the maker of the heavens and the earth? And he it is that feedeth but is not fed" Quran 6:14
 
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saladin1970

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there are hundreds more examples, but just a few more for now

In Gensis 32:24-30, god is characterised as wrestling with jacob all night long. God wrestling and being weak and powerless?

"And jacob was left alone; and there wrestled a man with him until the breaking of the day. And when he saw that he prevailed not against him, he touched the hollow of his thigh; and the hollow of jacob's thigh was out of joint as he wrestled him"

and he said let me go, for the day breaketh. And he said , I will not let thee go, except thou bless me. And he said unto him, What is thy name" and he said Jacob And he said, they name shall be called no more jacob, but Israel, for as a prince hast thou power with god and with men, and hast prevailed"

" and jacob asked him, and said, Tell me, I pray thee, they name. ANd he said, Wherefore is it that thou dost ask my name? and he blessed him thee. And jacob called the name of the places Peniel: for i have seen god face to face and my life is preserved Genesis 32:24-30"

Now what does the Majestic Quran have to say
"it is he who begins creation;then repeats it anf or him it is most easy. To him belongs the loftiest similitured in the heavens and the earth: for he is exalted in might, full of wisdom" Quran 30:27
 
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divided sky

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evange said:
I believe the koran was not of divine orgin, becuase I have read it (in english). In my mind the koran was poorly pulled together, poorly laid out, poorly constructed, badly written. I know you believe that it's infalliable and has an amazing literary style and whatever. But when I read it I found that only an illiterate, devil-possesed, epileptic, superstisious, very messed up man could have written it.

Sorry, but I get this same feeling reading the Old Testament, and to a lesser extent, the New Testament.

Scientific: Much of the koran is just plain wrong, and it reflects the lack of information mohamed had

Probably true but the same could be said about the writings in the Bible too. The science in the Bible reflects what people of the age knew about it.

Moral/ethical: I just see what is written in the koran as a step backfor human rights. I think mohamed as not particularly gifted, and he had no ability to see past his own society, 6th century arabia. This is the 20th century, and I am canadian. The koran just doesnt strike a chord with me.

Oh, and the Bible is really big on human rights. Have you actually read the Old Testament? And what's with this Muhammad not being able to see past his own time and culture. It's not different with the writings in the Bible.

Ambiguity: The koran is not clear on anything important to me. It does not guarentee me salvation. I dont care about all the legalistic jargon in the koran, I just want some spiritual truths, and it has none.

Again, have you actually read the Bible? If it's so crystal clear on various topics, why are there thousands of Christian denominations and a very wide array of interpretations of it? Christians continually argue over interpretations. If the Bible is so clear, why does this occur?

Well anyway, there are many reasons that I believe the koran was baloney. If you want me to elaborate on any of them, just ask.

I think the reason you're a Christian is because you grew up in a society where the primary religion is Christianity, and you don't know Islam that well. Plus, all the bad press Islam is getting these days doesn't help.
 
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IronPillar

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In the True word of God which are The Torah and the Holy Bilbe God reveals his name to his people.He introduces Himself to people.In Koran it is God-Just God.

” He who believes in Him is not condemned; but he who does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.”John;.3:17,18
 
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firestar

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I guess the simplest answer is that coming from a Christian pov, I don't believe that the Qu'ran is the word of God because it doesn't give glory to Jesus who is God. To minimize His status to being that of a man renders the Qu'ran instantly devoid of spiritual merit.

From my personal pov based on quotes from the Qu'ran and some of the Hadith, as well as listening to Islamic preaching on tv....(and let me be honest by saying that I have not read the Qu'ran cover to cover- I hate it when non Christians try to tell me how they know my bible better than me so I won't patronize you in that way), Mohammed made up this religion for one of either two reasons:

a: He was deluded by spiritual deception and honestly believed what he was preaching.

b: He knowingly made it up as a bid for personal power.

Personally, the latter seems to be the case for me. I truly do not mean this to be offensive Adeeb, and am only saying this because it relates to your question... but Islam fairly reeks of being man made in my opinion. Christianity is all about RELATIONSHIP. It's what God desired from the very first moment in the garden. Man ruined this perfect accord, and so sin came into the world, and into the hearts of humanity. But, you can see all through the bible how God is constantly wooing His bride back to Him, to mend that same relationship. There are no specific *things* or tasks we have to complete or fill out on a daily basis in order to gain God's favour, we're simply to love Him with all our hearts, souls and very beings!!! Being in accord with Him, helps us to mature in Christ and to become like Him, think like Him... in other words it is the ONLY way we can hope to shed our sinful nature. That relationship that I'm referring to- is the ONLY way we can truly be what the world considers as *good*. For example, if we are walking in perfect love with our Creator, and TRULY living out His commandment to love each other more than ourselves, we will always be looking for ways to help our fellow man, change and affect lives in a positive way. In other words, no one will need to tell us to feed the poor- we'd be doing it out of a sincerity that can't be there if it's a rule we must follow. Which brings me to my next point.

If Christianity is all about relationship, then Islam is all about religion. You have five pillars of your faith.

*making a pilgrimage to Mecca if you are able to at least once in your life.
*Alms giving to the poor and needy
*Praying five times a day facing Mecca
*Observing Ramadan
*Declaration of faith that there is only one God.

Now, let's look at each one, and critically determine how it would better your walk with God.

- Pilgrimage/ hajj: As a Christian, God's commandments are no longer on a piece of stone. He is not to be found in any man made temple or building. He is inside of ME! I grow in grace daily because I have Him nurturing me, guiding me and helping me. I honestly can't see how making a trip to a birthplace of any of the prophets would be an integral part of serving God or living as He would have me life. So my question is from your own personal pov, how has hajj improved your walk with God? Has it helped you live a sinless life, or a life abounding in love?

-Alms giving: Again, I must refer to my previous point about growing in a personal relationship with Christ. I find personally, that the more I experience Him, the more I want to be a light for His people. On my own I am nothing special, a true sinner. I will admit that I can be selfish which I know makes God so sad. BUT (and here is the great part), He is changing me daily! Sometimes I can't believe how gracious He is to soften this imperfect heart of mine to the point where I freely and willingly and openly *want* to give to people. Not just money, but also time and other resources. Now I give not because I *have* to, but because I want to. God values a cheerful giver. After all, if you receive something from someone who was forced into giving a gift to you, and another gift from a person who just really wanted to give it to you... which one would mean more? Which one would feel more "real" more sincerely from the heart? So my question to you is this: How does having the rule to give alms better the condition of your heart? Will you concede that men/women can (and do) do things in this world for the wrong reasons, and not necessarily from the goodness of their heart? Do you believe that the motivation behind a gift is a factor in determining the worth of the gift?

-Prayer 5x: As a Christian, I consider prayer to be one of the greatest privileges that God has granted me. Imagine...me- ME able to commune with the Creator of Heaven and earth!!! Imagine that He actually wants to hear from me? Wow. I can't tell you how that makes me feel :D When I pray it's a conversation. I thank God for His goodness, for His provision, for his mercies. I petition Him on behalf of myself and loved ones, I confess my sins and struggles and beg Him for help and strengh and guidance. I do this all day. Sometimes when I'm working, washing my dishes or mopping the floor. When I wake up, when I go to sleep. My day is one long conversation to God. I don't need to be told to pray a certain number of times to Him...I pray because I literally NEED to do it. My heart will cry out to Him even if my mouth doesn't! My spirit is in desperate need to be heard by Him. So my question is much the same as the last one... say you have someone in your life who is very special to you. Your heart is filled to bursting with love for them and you always want to talk to them. Would you rather the sweet spontanaity of continuous verbal intimacy, or would you prefer them stick to a rule book and talk to you for (x) amount of minutes (x) amount of times per day??

-Ramadan: As a Christian, I believe that fasting is an integral part of our spiritual growth. I fast when I have that tugging in my spirit letting me know "it's time". Perhaps it's about a situation, perhaps it's just time for a spiritual cleanse and repentance session. Whatever it may be I do it for God because I *want* to. I make the sacrifice willingly without being told to. In return, God blesses me with a clarity that I wouldn't have attained otherwise. His voice is more audible and I can draw closer to Him through this sacrifice. I come back yet again to the same brick wall as I have with my last few points regarding ramadan. How does it please God that you fast because you *have* to? And a personal question to you (no sarcasm intended)- would you mind sharing with me the benefits you've received through fasting?

-Declaration that there is only one God: I don't have any issues with this. In fact, this is the only one I can actually embrace. I too believe there is only one God, and am happy to tell anyone who'll listen to me :)

So I guess my conclusion, is that apart from the last point, it's pretty clear that Islam is not about a relationship with God. It's a paint by numbers attempt to not tick God off. To present you with an analogy I've used with fellow Christians who are too legalistic, I think there is a huge difference in trying to please someone and just trying not to have them angry at you. The Christian walk is designed by God, for man to please God. It's designed for His children to be in a relationship with Him and for both parties to bask in each other's love. Islam on the other hand (and from my admittedly biased Christian pov) was designed by man, ostensibly for man to try to not tick God off. There is no love, no grace, no fellowship with your Creator and I find that incredibly empty and sad. :(

If you've actually read all this (boy my fingers are getting tired ;) ) then I sincerely thank you. Please know that I count many Muslims to be great friends of mine. I may not agree with your theology, but I hope I never come across as bigotted or resort to using crass media sensationalized theories to strengthen my point. I've tried to be as analytical as possible without using terminology that could wound another of a different culture or religion so I really do hope you take this in the spirit it's intended!!
 
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Fares

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The hijab is a effective solution for adultery but is it the right way ? Does it educate people ? Make them understand ? It kills the possibility of temptation . Temptation is needed for humans to find their way to God . God is very pleased with a human , when this human was tempted by Satan yet he rejected him and choose God's path . For this reason the hijab is not the solution for adultery . The hijab is wrong yet you say the Qu`ran is the Word of God . How can the Word of God be wrong ? God is perfect, he makes perfect solution . So this bring us to two similar conclusions .
  • the Qu`ran is corrupted . You dont beleive in christianity because you claim its corrupted . So why do we need to beleive in the Qu`ran that is corrupted also .
  • Or the Qu`ran is not the Word of God . We have many reason why to beleive the Qu`ran is false . First mohammed is nowhere to be found in the New or Old Testament . Second Jesus did warn us about false prophets that will rise and deceive many people . Third God is merciful yet Islam is a very violent religion when it comes to punishments and treating those who do not beleive . Fourth , Islam takes matter into her own hands , she judges people , but only God himself can judge . A sinner can not judge a sinner . Only a perfect power can judge sinners .
The origine of Islam is not very clear . The whole Islam is based on one sentence : "Mohammed does not know how to write or read therefore he could not have wrote the Qu`ran" . According to whom he could not read ? To Mohammed ? Are you willing to risk eternal hell because of him ? Plus he was not a moral man . Prophets do make mistakes but not as much as Mohammed did .

The hijab is just a small problem in the Qu`ran you have many many more .

God bless you all !
Have a good night !
 
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Osiris

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Adeeb said:
Muslims believe that the Qur'an is the word of God(Allah) revealed to Muhammad(s.a.w.).

Muslims 'believe' the Qur'an is the word of God. This belief though, is just an opinion, there is no certainty in it -- just like there isn't any certainty in claims of other religious texts.

Im guessing the christians believe that Muhammad wrote the Qur'an. I basically want to know why you think that the Qur'an is not the word of God and how would you explain scientific,

there isn't anything scientific within the Qur'an... what is scientific is the articles that muslims take about current science and try to draw 'opinions' about similarities of a verse in the Qur'an and what the articles says.

philosophical,

Socrates one of the first greatest philosopher...

Plato wrote about philosophy, should we call him a prophet?

historical, geological,

The Illiad has historical and geological information in its myth. You are making mistake in saying that "just because an account tells about a place, and that place existed, the account must be true." :sigh:

astronomical etc.,verses in the Qur'an.

astronomical? which one? is it the rose like ointment?

Please do this on a rational and intellectual basis.

If most religious people based their conclusions with a "rational and intellectual" manner as you say, there'd be little or no evidence...
 
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Adeeb

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IronPillar said:
"No lie comes from the truth. Who is the liar, if not the one who denies that Jesus is the Messiah? He is the antichrist, the one who denies the Father and the Son. No one who denies the Son can have the Father; he who confesses the Son has the Father as well. "
1 John;2:22.23

we believe jesus is the messiah
 
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IronPillar

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Adeeb said:
we believe jesus is the messiah

You miss the second part

"He is the antichrist, the one who denies the Father and the Son. No one who denies the Son can have the Father; he who confesses the Son has the Father as well. "1 John;2:22.23
This is the reason why Christians can call God their Father.Because they have received the Son.

“But to all who did receive Him, He gave them the right to be children of God, to those who believe in His name, ”John ; 1:12
 
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Osiris

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Adeeb said:
we believe jesus is the messiah

i thought to muslims Jesus was just a prophet.

He is the antichrist, the one who denies the Father and the Son.

muslims also deny Jesus being the son of God.

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Adeeb... I hope you are aware though... if you believe these verses, you are just falling victim of what you want others to do with your quran. you are believing a book(the bible) because a book says so... just like you want others to believe your own quran because the quran says so...
 
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Adeeb

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1 of the many examples.

1)"He [i.e., Allah] is aware of an atom's(dharra) weight in the heavens and on the earth and even anything smaller than that..." 34:3
Explanation: 14 centuries ago the arabic word dharra commonly refered to the smallest particle know to man. this theory was popularized by greek philosopher Democritus.The verse however says "even anything smaller than that" meaning that there is something even smaller than the atom.
Question: How did Muhammad know there were particles smaller than the atom?

I will post some more examples later.
 
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