The Qur'an

[Fares]

3) the Qur'an repeatedly refers to 3 groups of creation: things in the Heaven, things on earth, and things between them.
"We created not the heavens, the earth, and all between them, but for just ends." 15:85
"To Him belongs what is in the heavens and on earth, and all between them, and all beneath the soil." 20:6
"Not for sport did we create the heavens and the earth and all that is between (them)." 21:16

This can be found in the Bible .

1)"Praise be to Allah, the lord of the worlds."1:1
Explanation: the Qur'an states "lord of the worlds" indicating more than one world, planet, galaxy, however you interpret it.

Maybe the verse by "worlds" means heaven and earth .

2)"Have they not who disbelieve seen that the heavens and the earth were joined together (as one piece), then we parted them." 21:30
Explanation: the Qur'an explains a mystery that physicists and astronauts have been trying to figure out for centuries. this mystery is the creation of the universe, using 2 specific words; Fataq and Rataq. the word fataq in arabic signifies the process of breaking and separation of elements, and the word rataq signifies the process of fusing or binding together of elements into a homogenous mass. hence the verse reveals that the heavens and earth at the beginning were together and then separated. this collaborates with the current Big Bang theory of creation that states 20,000,000,000 years ago the universe began with an explosive expansion of a single extremely condensed matter.
Question: How did Muhammad know about the Big Bang theory?

You are so wrong about this verse .
This verse refers to the Adam and Eve story .
Heaven was on earth until the apple accident .
Then Heaven was separated from earth .

Why do you twist verses ?

 

[Adeeb]

This can be found in the Bible .

Maybe the verse by "worlds" means heaven and earth .

You are so wrong about this verse .
This verse refers to the Adam and Eve story .
Heaven was on earth until the apple accident .
Then Heaven was separated from earth .

Why do you twist verses ?

1) even if it was found in the bible, how did Muhammad know this was right, lucky guess? I think not.
2) worlds does not mean heaven and earth because it would have said heavens. it says worlds. heavens has been constantly used before, why use worlds all of a sudden? it definately is not refering to heavens.
3) wow you must be slow. I explained the verse. I even gave you the arabic words fataq(fragmentation) and rataq(fusion). these words clearly would not be used to describe the Adam and Eve story. read the verse again. How are you gonna use the Qur'an against me. Heaven was not on earth when Adam lived. Adam was in heaven until the apple incident, then was sent to earth. you are clearly the one twisting verses.

 

[Adeeb]

continued topic: Science in the Qur'an
Sun and the Moon
1)A)"Allah is the one who made the sun a shining object and the moon as a light, and measured out (their) stages, that you may know the number of years and count (of time), Allah did not create this but in truth; he (thus) explains his signs in detail, for those who understand." 10:5
B)"Blessed is he who made constellations in the skies and placed therein a lamp(sun) and a moon giving light." 25:61
C)"Do you not see how Allah has created the seven heavens one above another; and made the moon a light in their midst, and made the sun a lamp." 71:15-16
Explanation: It should be noted that the Bible always refer to the sun and the moon with a similar word i.e.,light. It adds to the one adjective greater and to the other lesser. It states: "the greater light to rule the day, and the lesser light to rule the night." Genesis 1:17.
If Muhammad copied from the Bible as some claim, he should have also used similar a similar word for the sun and the moon. The Qur'an however uses different words for the sun and the moon. One is called Noor(light), refering to the moon. The other is called Siraj or Zia(lamp), refering to the sun. This acknowledges that the sun is the source of light while the moon only reflects the sun's light. This is a scientific fact that the moon is only a reflector of light and the sun is the only source of light. The Qur'an stated this centuries ago.
Question: Why did'nt Muhammad use similar words to refer to the sun and moon like the Bible? Did he know that the Sun was the source of light while the moon is the reflector? Is this why two words were used?
2) "The sun runs on its fixed course for a term (appointed); that is the decree of the All-Mighty, the All-Knowing." 36:38
Explanation: Our galaxy consists of a large number of stars clustered in the form of a disc. The sun occupies a position in this galaxy far from the center. This galaxy revolves on its own axis, which is the center. This results in the movement of the sun in a circular orbit around the same center. The galaxy takes 250 million years to complete one revolution. The sun while completing this revolution, travels at roughly 150 miles per second. This is what is termed as the fixed course the sun travels as stated in the Qur'an. Obviously Muhammad nor those around him at the time knew this.
Question: How did Muhammad know that the sun runs ina fixed course?
3)A)"Verily, your lord is one. Lord of the heavens and the earth, and all between them, and the lord of every point at the rising of the sun." 37:5
B)"He is the lord of the two easts, and the lord of the two wests." 55:17
C)"Now I do call to witness the lord of all points in the East and West." 70:40
Explanation: The two easts are the two extreme points where the sun rises during the year. Similarly, the two west include the two extreme points of the sun's setting. The other two verses refer to the varying points of sunrise and sunset. Those who live away from the equator can see that the sun rises at different points in the east and sets at different points int the west. In fact the farther a person lives from the equator, the more clear it is to se the points of sunrise and sunset. However Muhammad lives in the Arabian Penninsula, which is not far from the equator and so it is difficult to observe these points.
Question: How did Muhammed know of the varying points of sunrise and sunset?
4)A)"(Allah is the) One who created the night, and the day, and the sun and the moon, (all celestial bodies) swim along, each in its (own) orbit." 21:33
B)"It is not permitted to the sun to overtake the moon, nor can the night outstrip the day, each swims along in (its own) orbit." 36:40
Explanation: The Arabic word used is Falak. Almost all english translations have translated this word to mean orbit. Now it should be recalled that the dicovery of the movement of all celestial bodies and the discovery that thier movement is in an orbital mode is due to the invention of the telescope. Obviously Muhammad did not have a telescope in the sixth century. Yet, a new concept, that of movement of the sun and moon in orbits was in the Qur'an.
Question: How did Muhammad know of the orbits of celestial bodies?

 

[JinniTheDhimmi]

People see Qur'an as truth because it is all they have known. Compared to other scripture, it is nothing special.

 

[Adeeb]

People see Qur'an as truth because it is all they have known. Compared to other scripture, it is nothing special.

In 6th century Arabia, at a time of ignorance, where knowledge was scarce, where most people could not read and write, it is almost impossible for a man to write such a book. What other scriptures do you speak of, science textbooks? I stated already that the Qur'an is not a science book. It is merely used to support science. It contains many different topics and none of them are outdated as the Qur'an is still being used today.

 

[Fares]

Exactly impossible .
Satan helped Mohammed to write it, but mohammed thought it was God .
Sad story .

 

[Adeeb]

Exactly impossible .
Satan helped Mohammed to write it, but mohammed thought it was God .
Sad story .

So you admit it is impossible for a man to write this?

Allah has revealed verses against people like you who claim Satan helped to write this Qur'an.

"And they say, "Surely he is possessed", but it(the Qur'an) is not except a reminder to the worlds" 68:51-52
also
"No evil ones have brought it[i.e., this revelation] down. It would neither be fitting for them, nor would they be able. Indeed they have been removed far from hearing." 26:210-212
also
"So when you recite the Qur'an, seek refuge in Allah(God) from Satan, the rejected." 16:98
Is this how Satan writes a book? By telling you "before you read my book, ask God to save you from me."? Would Satan do this? Would God allow Satan to do this? wake up and face reality man.

 

[Fares]

Damn the theory about satan creating Islam is getting pretty clear .
The 2 things that lead to salvation are not included in Islam .

Is this how Satan writes a book? By telling you "before you read my book, ask God to save you from me."? Would Satan do this? Would God allow Satan to do this? wake up and face reality man.

God wont allow satan to do this but allows humans to corrupt the Bible ?
Very smart wow how didn't I think about it ?
I see the Islamic reality everyday on tv man .
And I dont want to be in that reality .

 

[Adeeb]

Damn the theory about satan creating Islam is getting pretty clear .
The 2 things that lead to salvation are not included in Islam .
Satan did a pretty good job .

Salvation is really from Satan. Satan wants you to think someone died for your sins when in reality everyone is responsible for his/her actions.

Again why would satan write a book condemning himself. Everything time a muslim recites Qur'an he/she seeks refuge in God from Satan. this does not help Satan. Your argument is baseless, makes no sense. The truth is clear.

Quran 2:256
"Let there be no compulsion in religion. Truth stands out clear from error. Whoever rejects evil and believes in God has grasped the most trustworthy handhold that never breaks, and God hears and knows all things."

 

[Osiris]

actually, it says... "anything smaller or greater than that"...

this depends on the english translation but nonethless it still says smaller indicating that there is something smaler than the atom.

Now you people have clearly misunderstood me. you have claimed that Muhammad wrote the Qur'an and in that case I have and will be presenting verses showing of knowledge posessed in the Quran that no man at the time could have had. I am not saying you have to believe because of this. all I want is your explanation as to how Muhammad got his information. the Qur'an is not a book of science. Should science be used as the only tool to prove the Qur'an's validity? NO. is it the only tool? no. why choose science? because we live in a modern world of thinking where science is the basis of thinking. science is not the only criteria but one of them.

getting back to the topic.

there was more that post than just that....

what you ommitted was the answer that refuted all the questions that you have posted.

 

[Adeeb]

there was more that post than just that....

what you ommitted was the answer that refuted all the questions that you have posted.

first of all you only gave one answer to my many questions. your answer stated that we are not certain there are particles smaller than an atom. This may be true but it is regarded that there are smaller particles. the fact is the Qur'an stated that there were smaller particles than atoms, right or wrong? Today we see that there are smaller particles in the atom just like we see the world is round.I stated this before, the Qur'an is not a science book. It was not meant to give theories, however it does support them.

 

[Fares]

Again why would satan write a book condemning himself. Everything time a muslim recites Qur'an he/she seeks refuge in God from Satan. this does not help Satan. Your argument is baseless, makes no sense. The truth is clear.

Satan's objective is to push away people from salvation . You get salvation when you accept and beleive in the trinity . So Satan creates a religion close to christianity but does not include the Trinity . So people are attracked by the 'clear truth' you claim knowing . Thats why Islam is easy to understand . Its a bait .

 

[Adeeb]

Satan's objective is to push away people from salvation . You get salvation when you accept and beleive in the trinity . So Satan creates a religion close to christianity but does not include the Trinity . So people are attracked by the 'clear truth' you claim knowing . Thats why Islam is easy to understand . Its a bait .

Wow you people are so predictable. First when I bring up the science topics you claim it is no big deal. Then you claim Muhammad copied it from the Bible. Then when you realize this is also wrong you claim it is from Satan. I fully expected this. In essence what is happening is that you are being backed into a corner until you can no longer go anywhere. your last resort is to claim that the Qur'an is from the devil. I knew you were eventually going to claim this. it is an act of desparation. Is this is Satan's religion why would he command his followers to do good?

 

[jinkazama]

Is it true that Judaism predates the Koran, how do you know if Muslims copy the Bible?

 

[Fares]

Adeeb we have prouved to you that the Trinity exist in the Bible and expalined to you why it does exist .
You rejected it because Islam rejected it .
You failed to prouve the Bible was corrupted . You just said Mohammed is here to correct it .
You failed to prouve that the Qu`ran is from God . You just said Mohammed said it is from God .
We have shown you Mohammed is an immoral man . You rejected it and found excuse for his immoral acts .

 

[Adeeb]

Adeeb we have prouved to you that the Trinity exist in the Bible and expalined to you why it does exist .
You rejected it because Islam rejected it .
You failed to prouve the Bible was corrupted . You just said Mohammed is here to correct it .
You failed to prouve that the Qu`ran is from God . You just said Mohammed said it is from God .
We have shown you Mohammed is an immoral man . You rejected it and found excuse for his immoral acts .

you stoop even lower
1)you failed to give me a verse that contained the trinity, and you failed to prove that the trinity existed before Jesus
2)obviously, and because Islam's concept makes alot more sense.
3)You admitted yourself that Muhammad could not have wrote the Qur'an himself. You in turn just desparately claimed the Qur'an was from Satan without proving so.
4)I never said Muhammad said it was from God, rather I gave verses that suggested that only God could have revealed this.
5)you have not shown me that Muhammad was an immoral man, don't lie.

your lies continue.

 

[firestar]

Is this is Satan's religion why would he command his followers to do good?

I have a question based on this quote...

Do Muslims believe that other world religions are deluded/wrong/destined for hell? I'm assuming you do, because you (like us Christians) don't believe in a pantheon of gods/esses and mainy paths leading to one supreme being. If I'm wrong please correct me, but if I'm right could you explain how these other world religions could have anything good about them when they are on the wrong path? To clarify what I mean... there are virtues found in other religions such as peace, brotherly love etc... that can be found in other religions besides Islam or Christianity for that matter. If we believe that these religions are satanic at the core, then how do we explain the "good" that they contain?

My answer- satan knows how to "spin" things so that they will appear credible and attractive. Thus, that would be my answer to your question about how could satan command his followers to do good. His only goal is to kill and destroy and prevent people from coming to God. I believe he is ruthless in this quest and will go to any means necessary to see it carried out.

 

[Adeeb]

I have a question based on this quote...

Do Muslims believe that other world religions are deluded/wrong/destined for hell? I'm assuming you do, because you (like us Christians) don't believe in a pantheon of gods/esses and mainy paths leading to one supreme being. If I'm wrong please correct me, but if I'm right could you explain how these other world religions could have anything good about them when they are on the wrong path? To clarify what I mean... there are virtues found in other religions such as peace, brotherly love etc... that can be found in other religions besides Islam or Christianity for that matter. If we believe that these religions are satanic at the core, then how do we explain the "good" that they contain?



My answer- satan knows how to "spin" things so that they will appear credible and attractive. Thus, that would be my answer to your question about how could satan command his followers to do good. His only goal is to kill and destroy and prevent people from coming to God. I believe he is ruthless in this quest and will go to any means necessary to see it carried out.

They were originally good, but the true message was corrupted. I will give you a comparison. There is a game called telephone. in this game, we start out with a message given to one person. that first person gives the message to someone else, in turn they do the same. Eventually the message reaches the last person. IN almost all the cases the message is not the same as the original. As the message goes from one person to person, the message may change. for example one may not recall the exact word used and therefore uses his own word, and so one. This in essence is what we believed happened. We beleived the original message was the truth but it got distorted as time passed. Every time the message got disorted, God sends another one. He sends countless messengers all to different people. Finally, we believe he sends Muhammad as the last prophet to deliver the message not only to his people but to everyone.

 

[frankw]

Muslims believe that the Qur'an is the word of God(Allah) revealed to Muhammad(s.a.w.). Im guessing the christians believe that Muhammad wrote the Qur'an. I basically want to know why you think that the Qur'an is not the word of God and how would you explain scientific, philosophical, historical, geological, astronomical etc.,verses in the Qur'an.

Please do this on a rational and intellectual basis.

from what i have learned and have seen, the text stories in the Quran were shared along the caravan routs(Old testament versions) and are different.that basically the Jews corrupted the oracles of God,and that this was to be the new uncorrupted revelation(Quran). i recently seen a contrast between Mormonism and Islam it was very eye opening........where is the love... i know of many Christians praying for, sending money for Muslim help Pakistan sunamee relief ect .......

 

[kaskas]

Salaam,
i think u meant Chinese whispers not telephones hehe
neways carry on adeeb bhai u r proving these KAFARAAH's wrong
n 4 those of u hu dunno kafaraa means one who knows the truth and will do newthing to cover it up this is weer the english word 'Cover' comes from n this is weer the word Kafir comes aswell 'The disbeliever'.