The quiet despair of Protestants

Major1

Well-Known Member
Sep 17, 2016
10,551
2,837
Deland, Florida
✟203,785.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Republican
Protestantism exists. True or false?

The definition of a Protestant is a member of a Western Christian religion that follows the principles of the Reformation and that has broken with the Roman Catholic Church, or a person who protests. A member of a Lutheran church is an example of a Protestant.

Inside of that definition are many, many examples that caused a spit. All of them revove around the RCC placing more emphasis on TRADITIONS than on the actual Word of God.

It seems to me that if my memory is correct, it was the "Selling of Indulgences" that was the straw that broke Luther's back and lead the way to the reformation.
 
  • Like
Reactions: marineimaging
Upvote 0

Albion

Facilitator
Dec 8, 2004
111,138
33,258
✟583,842.00
Country
United States
Faith
Anglican
Marital Status
Married
The definition of a Protestant is a member of a Western Christian religion that follows the principles of the Reformation and that has broken with the Roman Catholic Church, or a person who protests.
Not exactly. And that is why I mentally wince upon hearing people say that this is a meaning.

The word comes from the Lutherans protesting a political decision of the emperor to reverse policy and not recognize their churches along with the Papal ones.
 
  • Like
Reactions: ChicanaRose
Upvote 0

Major1

Well-Known Member
Sep 17, 2016
10,551
2,837
Deland, Florida
✟203,785.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Republican
Upvote 0

marineimaging

Texas Baptist now living in Colorado
Jul 14, 2014
1,449
1,228
Ward, Colorado
Visit site
✟90,207.00
Country
United States
Faith
Baptist
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Republican
I agree!

There is one and only one thing...……."Believe upon the Lord Jesus Christ and you shall be saved".
I read the scriptures and then reference what people say and it seems that a lot of people are arguing apples to okra, shrimp vs chickens, dogs compared to oxen. Salvation comes from what Jesus did and nothing in what we can do. Consider that Paul did not have the Bible we have today. He wrote quite a bit of it but did that guarantee his salvation? Did that make him holy? According to what some people say Paul must be burning in hell because he could not have done much of any of the things people say as necessary to achieve salvation since the written word didn't exist at that time.
 
Upvote 0

thecolorsblend

If God is your Father, who is your Mother?
Site Supporter
Jul 1, 2013
9,199
8,425
Gotham City, New Jersey
✟308,231.00
Country
United States
Faith
Catholic
Marital Status
Married
I read the scriptures and then reference what people say and it seems that a lot of people are arguing apples to okra, shrimp vs chickens, dogs compared to oxen. Salvation comes from what Jesus did and nothing in what we can do. Consider that Paul did not have the Bible we have today. He wrote quite a bit of it but did that guarantee his salvation? Did that make him holy? According to what some people say Paul must be burning in hell because he could not have done much of any of the things people say as necessary to achieve salvation since the written word didn't exist at that time.
You're saying that the Church existed before the New Testament was even written? Interesting.

PS- You and I are practically neighbors.
 
  • Haha
Reactions: ChicanaRose
Upvote 0

marineimaging

Texas Baptist now living in Colorado
Jul 14, 2014
1,449
1,228
Ward, Colorado
Visit site
✟90,207.00
Country
United States
Faith
Baptist
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Republican
You're saying that the Church existed before the New Testament was even written? Interesting.

PS- You and I are practically neighbors.
I am saying that I can see where the bible points toward the Messiah from the beginning of human time. In that God knew us before we were born we also can see that God is not defined by time, nor are His abilities restricted by the laws of physics as we understand them. Furthermore, neither the Father, the Son, nor the Holy Spirit are defined by the bible, rather they are explained in such a manner as to show God's grace and ability of eternal existence as witnessed through the eyes of 40 and more different people. As a Bible Baptist (Southwinds) I don't argue that one construct is more authoritative than the others because it is not mine to argue. I know that Daniel was aware of Jesus as were others. I know that they were all aware of the truth.

I trust in my King James Version and can easily read it, and understand it well enough to know that my personal savior was here on earth and the name given him was Jesus. Jesus of Nazareth is the only begotten son of our living God. He was in the beginning, He accepted a mission and carried it out and in doing so He fulfilled millennia of prophesies so that we would know Him by His works, His words, and the immeasurable strength of His love for us in spite of our failings. I have no doubt there will be people of all walks and denominations in heaven and I expect to be surprised (if it were possible) at who I encounter. I know that Jesus went to heaven for a season and that He will return and set up His reign here for 1000 years. The earth will not be destroyed. When Jesus binds Satan and rules for 1000 years without the great liars influence you will see men go on to sin without other influences and then Justice will know that Adam would have partaken without Eve and without Satan.

I fail every day, over and over again but His love for me is stronger than my weakness. I know that just as there are different Catholic churches all over the world there are also different churches with Jesus Christ at their core. I know beyond a doubt it is not my calling to decide which ones are closer to heaven and which ones are closer to hell, my Lord will decide that. All I need to work on at this time is my own understanding and to be ready to spread the simple gospel when I am called to do so. If that means the Church existed before the New Testament was written, then I guess so. But if that means I will use this as the basis for a discussion of who is more right and who is more wrong, then I will definitely fail at that.
 
Upvote 0

Major1

Well-Known Member
Sep 17, 2016
10,551
2,837
Deland, Florida
✟203,785.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Republican
I read the scriptures and then reference what people say and it seems that a lot of people are arguing apples to okra, shrimp vs chickens, dogs compared to oxen. Salvation comes from what Jesus did and nothing in what we can do. Consider that Paul did not have the Bible we have today. He wrote quite a bit of it but did that guarantee his salvation? Did that make him holy? According to what some people say Paul must be burning in hell because he could not have done much of any of the things people say as necessary to achieve salvation since the written word didn't exist at that time.

You are very correct. What you described is exactly what happens when we accept the words of men in RCC traditions instead of what God said in the Bible.
 
  • Useful
Reactions: ChicanaRose
Upvote 0

NeedyFollower

Well-Known Member
Feb 29, 2016
1,024
437
63
N Carolina
✟71,145.00
Faith
Anabaptist
Marital Status
Celibate
[I know this is somewhat of a long post, so I have a request to make for those of you who will skim it: If you only read 1 paragraph, read the one I've bolded. Thank you, and may God's blessings be ever in your soul!:amen:]

Since coming to college, I've gotten very involved in the Christian Campus House (CCH). Due to the demographic of the area, most of the people I know are Protestant. I've been involved in small groups with CCH for 2 years now, talked a lot with a lot of my Protestant friends, and occasionally they say something that should be deeply worrying to all Christians: They believe that we don't have a Biblical truth. We often discuss many theological issues, like the dispute of faith-alone or faith-and-works, where a thoroughly Biblical argument can be made for both. In my small group now, we're reading through Romans, and various verses point in either direction.

But it's very unsettling to hear how so many decently devout Christians so readily accept the idea that we just don't know how to settle issues like faith-alone or faith-and-works. We all believe the Bible has the truth; Catholics, non-denominationals, Orthodox, Jehova's Witnesses, Mormons, even the Christians often thought to be unbiblical are fierce in reverence to Holy Scripture holding the truth. But interpretations within Scripture vary wildly, and far too many Christians say that we'll never know how to settle theological issues, because everyone's interpretation of the Bible is different.

In some ways, this is correct. Sermons have applied Scripture to various parts of life for 2,000 years now, and applying a given verse or idea to various circumstances can yield different results. This is the flexibility of Scripture.

But to say there is no theological truth seems like a contradiction to the nature of God!

Jesus is the truth; no one here will deny that. But does the truth say that we are saved by faith alone (believe in me and be saved), or by faith and works (all will be judged according to their works)?

God knows the Bible was written by many different authors to different audiences from different time periods. He knows that the Bible can be hard to interpret. He also sent us the gift of the Holy Spirit to help us out. And as long as He's forming a Church, it's only logical that He would grant His Church guidance by the Holy Spirit to lead people to the truth.

And, as convert John Henry Newman noted, there's only 1 church that even claims to have guidance from the Holy Spirit: The Catholic Church.

The infallibility of the Papacy is vital to preserving the truth, and the framework for it is laid out in the Bible. Papal Infallibility | Catholic Answers

While we all have the Holy Spirit guiding us, we're imperfect in accepting it. Much of these forums would not exist if we all accepted the Spirit enough to be led to the truth, because these arguments wouldn't exist. Throughout the Old Testament, it can be said that the Prophets have infallibility. The Bible itself is believed to be true because of inspiration from the Holy Spirit. So it would logically follow that God would grant the modern Church infallibility on theological & moral issues!

And I'll state it again: Everything the Catholic church teaches is thoroughly Biblical. Getting into the apologetics for this would be far too long, but Dave Armstrong has a number of writings on the topic, after he converted from Evangelical Protestantism after doing an in-depth Bible study to disprove Catholicism.

Please remember the Spirit of Gentleness & self-control as you write your responses, and thank you for taking the time to read & think about this critical issue in the Church! May God bless us all, and remind us of our complete & total dependence on Him!:priest:

Knowing history as I do , great theology has never kept both protestants and catholics from burning each other at the stake over supposed heresies like translating the bible into english or is the bread really the body ? According to the Jesus I know , wise as serpents and harmless as doves .
To what good is orthodoxy when we blaspheme God and His Christ by our actions ? Why the spending of multi-trillion dollars on these ornate buildings when Christ said he himself was lowly and meek ?
Truth or orthodoxy ...Jesus said he was the TRUTH ...Not the orthodox theology . May God grant us the eyes to see the Truth in all His beauty, meekness and humbleness of mind .
 
  • Like
Reactions: ChicanaRose
Upvote 0

ChicanaRose

Well-Known Member
Mar 26, 2019
1,250
1,331
west coast
✟75,698.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Private
Hi OP. Honestly, I don't find it fair that someone generalizes a denomination as being in despair (as the title says). Each individual has his or her own personal relationship with God, and He sees and knows the hearts.
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

marineimaging

Texas Baptist now living in Colorado
Jul 14, 2014
1,449
1,228
Ward, Colorado
Visit site
✟90,207.00
Country
United States
Faith
Baptist
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Republican
Knowing history as I do , great theology has never kept both protestants and catholics from burning each other at the stake over supposed heresies like translating the bible into english or is the bread really the body ? According to the Jesus I know , wise as serpents and harmless as doves .
To what good is orthodoxy when we blaspheme God and His Christ by our actions ? Why the spending of multi-trillion dollars on these ornate buildings when Christ said he himself was lowly and meek ?
Truth or orthodoxy ...Jesus said he was the TRUTH ...Not the orthodox theology . May God grant us the eyes to see the Truth in all His beauty, meekness and humbleness of mind .
We recently move a hand carved statue of Mary and Jesus onto a pedestal in a local Catholic church. Being a Baptist I was a bit concerned at first because I don't believe in such. However, as I was working on the project I realized there are people who do need those things. For one reason or another some people need the pomp and circumstances of statues and gold and trim and elevated pulpits and incense and most of all, ceremony.

So, here is my take on it. Catholics and similar denominations are NOT like the idol worshipers, satanists, pure evil murderers and thieves. They are not fornicating in the isles and conniving to hurt others. Jesus told me to have love and compassion for my fellow man and I can certainly start being more loving and compassionate toward those who call upon the name of Jesus, than I can those who call upon the name of Satan to their daily worship. Are there people who use the church of Jesus Christ to hide their evilness? These people exist in EVERY body of believers - in every walk of life - in every religion - everywhere in the world. Evil does not know how to be good. So why should I think that I have the right to judge a Catholic or a Jew? I don't.

Instead, I did receive the Word of God that said to love my enemies and if I must walk a mile to love the truly bad in this world, then why not walk across the aisle and love my Catholic or Jewish brother on the way? Does that mean give them my sword and bow to them? No. Not even. Does that mean cave in to accept their way as mine? Nope. But loving them and showing compassion to one another is about peace and that is what God wants between us as we convey His might and His word on the way to eternity.
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

NeedyFollower

Well-Known Member
Feb 29, 2016
1,024
437
63
N Carolina
✟71,145.00
Faith
Anabaptist
Marital Status
Celibate
We recently move a hand carved statue of Mary and Jesus onto a pedestal in a local Catholic church. Being a Baptist I was a bit concerned at first because I don't believe in such. However, as I was working on the project I realized there are people who do need those things. For one reason or another some people need the pomp and circumstances of statues and gold and trim and elevated pulpits and incense and most of all, ceremony.

So, here is my take on it. Catholics and similar denominations are NOT like the idol worshipers, satanists, pure evil murderers and thieves. They are not fornicating in the isles and conniving to hurt others. Jesus told me to have love and compassion for my fellow man and I can certainly start being more loving and compassionate toward those who call upon the name of Jesus, than I can those who call upon the name of Satan to their daily worship. Are there people who use the church of Jesus Christ to hide their evilness? These people exist in EVERY body of believers - in every walk of life - in every religion - everywhere in the world. Evil does not know how to be good. So why should I think that I have the right to judge a Catholic or a Jew? I don't.

Instead, I did receive the Word of God that said to love my enemies and if I must walk a mile to love the truly bad in this world, then why not walk across the aisle and love my Catholic or Jewish brother on the way? Does that mean give them my sword and bow to them? No. Not even. Does that mean cave in to accept their way as mine? Nope. But loving them and showing compassion to one another is about peace and that is what God wants between us as we convey His might and His word on the way to eternity.

I saw Michelangelo's Pieta some years ago before I was born again ( though I would have firmly stated I was a christian .) The Pieta had already been placed behind glass after having been shot at some years prior. It was outstandingly moving and touching . I also viewed the Sistine Chapel , saw ancient catacombs , St Peter's Cathedral and many other wonders . I was a lost believer .
There are instances in history..particularly after the reformation where non catholics rampaged throughout churches and burned images and destroyed statues which they called idols ...this was primarily in France . Protestants also burned Jewish Synagogues throughout Europe unfortunately after the encouragement of some of Martin Luther's writings . Whereas I believe in the necessity of the new birth , I also believe in the demonstration of love as one of the fruits of that new birth . What we may have failed to realize is that "my opinion" can be one of the biggest idols there ever was and unlike statues , it is living idol .
I still hold to the view that buildings and traditions can become a replacement for the living God and a gathering can be a substitute for true worship , the greater sin is self righteous hate .
 
Upvote 0

FireDragon76

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Apr 30, 2013
30,678
18,559
Orlando, Florida
✟1,262,320.00
Country
United States
Faith
United Ch. of Christ
Politics
US-Democrat
Your argument is that since God has spoken infallibly in the Scriptures that therefore the Roman church teaches infallibly concerning faith and morals. It's a simple non-sequitur. These are two premises that you may personally hold, but the second premise in no way follows from the first.

It's really about going from one problem to a worse one. Sure, it's a problem for Protestants there are so many divisions, but Catholicism has an even bigger problem, a lack of sound justification for their model of church governance in the face of serious and evident flaws. Almost every Protestant church, including Episcopalians in the US, have a system of church governance where laity participate along with clergy, and priests and bishops are elected, not merely appointed.

In Rome, bishops are not actually bishops of geographic areas so much as papal representatives. This goes against the ancient tradition of the Church, where bishops were actually elected by the people themselves.
 
Upvote 0