The question continuationists must answer

W2L

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None of that is any reason to claim that Catholics are not Christians or a part of the Body of Christ. They have some legitimate complaints about Protestants as well. Should they discount you as well? That would be wrong for either side.

Sorry, you have failed to make your point here.
Strawman, i never suggested anything like that.
 
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W2L

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I asked you to show me where the doctrine is. You failed. That's absurd.
There was doctrine in the scripture i posted, but you failed to see it evidently. All you seen was the word "doctrine" but failed to also see that paul was teaching doctrine.
 
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Saint Steven

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Strawman, i never suggested anything like that.
You most certainly suggested something like that.
Your OP asked this question: "... how can all these church teachers be called by God if their doctrine divides us?"

Are you not claiming that those with doctrines that do not agree with yours have not been called by God?

You were pointing to the Catholics about this division, were you not?
Pretty obvious that you are claiming their leaders are not called by God.
Explain how they can be Christians if that is the case.
 
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W2L

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You most certainly suggested something like that.
Your OP asked this question: "... how can all these church teachers be called by God if their doctrine divides us?"

Are you not claiming that those with doctrines that do not agree with yours have not been called by God?

You were pointing to the Catholics about this division, were you not?
Pretty obvious that you are claiming their leaders are not called by God.
Explain how they can be Christians if that is the case.
Yes im saying that God could not have called teachers to teach both Catholicism and Protestantism. Does that mean people on one side are lost? Thats not my call. Im not the judge of souls.
 
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Saint Steven

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Yes im saying that God could not have called teachers to teach both Catholicism and Protestantism. Does that mean people on one side are lost? Thats not my call. Im not the judge of souls.
But you are the judge of denominations?
 
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W2L

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But you are the judge of denominations?
What am i judging exactly? That denominations are fallible? Yes, and thats true. Accusing people of judging is usually the last defense of a losing argument. I believe its called an Ad hominem fallacy.
 
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servantofiam

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Whenever the apostles confronted division in the church they fixed it. Where are all the modern day apostles who will fix the division in church today? Also, how can all these church teachers be called by God if their doctrine divides us? Does God teach division and confusion?





That is the biggest issue in today's walk in God, separating biblical fact from the traditions of men. Sadly, those who do attend church services barely read their Bible. I've met too many acclaimed believers who do not quote scripture, they quote their pastor's opinion believing it is scriptural. And when you have a congregation made up of members following their pastor's interpretation 100%, you have major issues bringing forth the truth in wrongful situations. This is why Yeshua only had basically few converts as He did while upon earth, because the traditions of men became a barrier and still is a barrier.

It would be a basic stones throw into any congregation to whom could/would be able to recognize solid biblical fact. I believe it could be a sad day on the day of judgement for many who believe they are saved. When God tells them your salvation is based upon the traditions of men and not My WORD, it will be a very sad moment of realization before the floor drops :(

But members of typical congregations become bull headed. And once you have reached that point of not being able to see fact from fiction, you become a serious liability unto your own path in God.

But I am a firm believer that as we enter into Tribulation, those with the absolute TRUTH will be able to knock doors down and help some who are not too far gone!!
 
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YeshuaFan

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Good point.
The so called Azusa Holy Ghost revival fits into WoF theology, due to them seeing the time right before Second Coming as time when God restores the Church of Acts back again. Bishop Paulk called it Kingdom Now, as everything that we see as future when he comes back is seen by them as available all right here and now! The Church shall usher in the Millennium, and then Jesus returns!
 
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YeshuaFan

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That is the biggest issue in today's walk in God, separating biblical fact from the traditions of men. Sadly, those who do attend church services barely read their Bible. I've met too many acclaimed believers who do not quote scripture, they quote their pastor's opinion believing it is scriptural. And when you have a congregation made up of members following their pastor's interpretation 100%, you have major issues bringing forth the truth in wrongful situations. This is why Yeshua only had basically few converts as He did while upon earth, because the traditions of men became a barrier and still is a barrier.

It would be a basic stones throw into any congregation to whom could/would be able to recognize solid biblical fact. I believe it could be a sad day on the day of judgement for many who believe they are saved. When God tells them your salvation is based upon the traditions of men and not My WORD, it will be a very sad moment of realization before the floor drops :(

But members of typical congregations become bull headed. And once you have reached that point of not being able to see fact from fiction, you become a serious liability unto your own path in God.

But I am a firm believer that as we enter into Tribulation, those with the absolute TRUTH will be able to knock doors down and help some who are not too far gone!!
That biblical ignorance is why some of us do like things such as the Confessions of Faith, that break down scripture and doctrines in a way that one can better handle what it states, and also, lack of biblical understanding is a primary reason why things such as Charismatic Chaos has been allowed to be loosed into the Church...
 
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YeshuaFan

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Not to place blame but is their pride in spiritual things that really is a huge problem. It’s one thing to humbly have GOD working through you and another to act spiritually superior like their is anything special about that specific believer.

To hear them talk they think they are doing powerful things. Truth is only God does powerful things. Humility and sense is important
Many of their spiritual teachers see themselves as God anointed ones, as the ones chosen by Him to revive the Church back to greatness!
 
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YeshuaFan

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Where did you find the Apostles doctrine. And don't say, "The Bible." That's not a book of doctrine. Is the doctrine in the Didache perfect? (teachings of the twelve Apostles)
The scriptures are the only books of inspired doctrines that God ever has given to us!
 
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YeshuaFan

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The Apostle Paul and Peter had conflicting doctrine. The Apostle Paul and James had conflicting doctrine. Are you ready to toss them out?
Paul and peter agreed on their theology, its just that peter was not applying what he knew was truth, and paul and James fully agree that Jesus only saves us, its just that Paul looks at it before salvation, and James afterwards!
 
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servantofiam

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Paul and peter agreed on their theology, its just that peter was not applying what he knew was truth, and paul and James fully agree that Jesus only saves us, its just that Paul looks at it before salvation, and James afterwards!



Yes, and excellent point made..

Peter seemed more inclined to put the blame for the death of Christ at the feet of the Jews. He used accountability where Paul used the message of Grace to attract the Gentiles being converted. Obviously, it was not the Gentiles who sent Yeshua to the cross, it was the Jewish leaders. So there was never a need to hold the Gentiles accountable. Where as the Jews, Peter seen their conversion would be more apparent based upon guilt.
 
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Saint Steven

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The scriptures are the only books of inspired doctrines that God ever has given to us!
The scriptures are not doctrinal books. Doctrines should be based on the Bible. But they are NOT the Bible.
 
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Saint Steven

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Paul and peter agreed on their theology, its just that peter was not applying what he knew was truth, and paul and James fully agree that Jesus only saves us, its just that Paul looks at it before salvation, and James afterwards!
Don't forget about this.

2 Peter 3:15-16
Bear in mind that our Lord’s patience means salvation, just as our dear brother Paul also wrote you with the wisdom that God gave him. 16 He writes the same way in all his letters, speaking in them of these matters. His letters contain some things that are hard to understand, which ignorant and unstable people distort, as they do the other Scriptures, to their own destruction.
 
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