The question continuationists must answer

[W2L]

In a word, no.
Name a doctrine. The support for it is scatter throughout the Bible.
Look up a doctrine in a book of doctrine. All in one place.
Therefore, the Bible is not a book of doctrines.
It is the source from which doctrinal facts are collected and organized.

Time for you to have the last word again.
What say you to that?

It seems strange to me for you to say the bible doesnt contain doctrine. As far as i can tell doctrine means to teach something. The apostles and the Lord teach us many things.

 

[Saint Steven]

It seems strange to me for you to say the bible doesnt contain doctrine. As far as i can tell doctrine means to teach something. The apostles and the Lord teach us many things.

I'm not saying that the Bible doesn't contain doctrine.
I'm saying it is not a book of doctrine.
It is the source from which doctrinal facts are collected and organized.
Name a doctrine. The support for it is scatter throughout the Bible.
Look up a doctrine in a book of doctrine. All in one place.
That's the difference.

Have you had the last word yet?

 

[W2L]

I'm not saying that the Bible doesn't contain doctrine.
I'm saying it is not a book of doctrine.
It is the source from which doctrinal facts are collected and organized.
Name a doctrine. The support for it is scatter throughout the Bible.
Look up a doctrine in a book of doctrine. All in one place.
That's the difference.

Have you had the last word yet?

Ok, so you admit that the bible contains doctrine, and thats all i was saying. A book of doctrine is usually one mans interpretation. I would rather interpret things myself.. The bible is my doctrine, i dont follow denominations and their doctrine.

 

[Saint Steven]

i dont follow denominations and their doctrine.

How is it that all the denominations are wrong but you are right?
On what basis did you make that determination?

 

[W2L]

How is it that all the denominations are wrong but you are right?
On what basis did you make that determination?

I dont think they are wrong about everything, just as im not right about everything. Why would you assume such a notion? Are you just trying to argue my friend?

 

[YeshuaFan]

Ok, thank you. Do the apostles teach doctrine in their writings i.e. the scriptures?

The Bible itself is the text book that God gave to us in order to grow up in and get mature in the faith!

 

[W2L]

The Bible itself is the text book that God gave to us in order to grow up in and get mature in the faith!

Thank you.

 

[Saint Steven]

I dont think they are wrong about everything, just as im not right about everything. Why would you assume such a notion? Are you just trying to argue my friend?

Your OP said this:

"Whenever the apostles confronted division in the church they fixed it. Where are all the modern day apostles who will fix the division in church today? Also, how can all these church teachers be called by God if their doctrine divides us? Does God teach division and confusion?"

You seem to be claiming that differences in the denominations equate to leaders not being "called by God". How can they be right about anything if you claim they are not called of God?

 

[W2L]

How can they be right about anything if you claim they are not called of God?

I dont think they are called. I think they are trained by other men. This doesn't mean they get everything wrong though.

 

[Saint Steven]

I dont think they are called. I think they are trained by other men. This doesn't mean they get everything wrong though.

That being said, maybe your expectations are out of whack?
You are judging men by an impossible standard and then declare they are not called by God. Does that seem fair to you?

 

[W2L]

That being said, maybe your expectations are out of whack?
You are judging men by an impossible standard and then declare they are not called by God. Does that seem fair to you?

In Martin Luther's day, who was called by God to teach? Was it the catholic Church or Luther that was called to teach? It seems that these churches oppose each other so they cant both be right.. Same thing with EO and RCC. Both cant be right. You say im judging an impossible standard but to me its impossible that God would call both EO and RCC, both RCC and Luther to teach.

 

[YeshuaFan]

In Martin Luther's day, who was called by God to teach? Was it the catholic Church or Luther that was called to teach? It seems that these churches oppose each other so they cant both be right.. Same thing with EO and RCC. Both cant be right. You say im judging an impossible standard but to me its impossible that God would call both EO and RCC, both RCC and Luther to teach.

Would not a real NT Church have to at least be teaching the real Gospel to start with?

 

[ICONO'CLAST]

Whenever the apostles confronted division in the church they fixed it. Where are all the modern day apostles who will fix the division in church today? Also, how can all these church teachers be called by God if their doctrine divides us? Does God teach division and confusion?

The only Apostles we have today are those who were foundational and already in scripture.

 

[ICONO'CLAST]

[QUOTE="StephenDiscipleofYHWH,

3. God does not teach division and confusion. These things come only from the devil and the sinful nature of man.[/QUOTE]

18 For first of all, when ye come together in the church, I hear that there be divisions among you; and I partly believe it.

19 For there must be also heresies among you, that they which are approved may be made manifest among you.

 

[Saint Steven]

In Martin Luther's day, who was called by God to teach? Was it the catholic Church or Luther that was called to teach? It seems that these churches oppose each other so they cant both be right.. Same thing with EO and RCC. Both cant be right. You say im judging an impossible standard but to me its impossible that God would call both EO and RCC, both RCC and Luther to teach.

The Protestant Reformation was a division in the church. That is what you are complaining about, all the divisions. Even you can see that in this case division was a good thing. Right?

 

[W2L]

The Protestant Reformation was a division in the church. That is what you are complaining about, all the divisions. Even you can see that in this case division was a good thing. Right?

You are failing to see my point. The fact that such divisions exist means that these teachers are not called by God. Both the Pope and Luther cannot be called by God to teach their doctrine, and one, if not both, are wrong. Same with RCC and EO, Same goes with any denomination, their divisions prove their calling to teach is not from God but from man.

 

[Saint Steven]

You are failing to see my point. The fact that such divisions exist means that these teachers are not called by God. Both the Pope and Luther cannot be called by God to teach their doctrine, and one, if not both, are wrong. Same with RCC and EO, Same goes with any denomination, their divisions prove their calling to teach is not from God but from man.

So you are claiming that no one is called by God? Wow. (division being the "proof")

 

[W2L]

So you are claiming that no one is called by God? Wow. (division being the "proof")

What other conclusion can i come to? Who is teaching the pure truth without mans fallible traditions and doctrines added to it?

 

[Hillsage]

So you are claiming that no one is called by God? Wow. (division being the "proof")

I know I was called of God. I was also born and raised a RCC and then spent 2 years as a Lutheran. So I can definitely say yes they are both wrong too. And concerning 'that point' I can also say SO WHAT??? Peter and Paul were divided...SO WHAT??? The church has had division and error from the beginning and anyone who thinks that means something is horribly wrong, are just as deceived as they believe the church is.

 

[W2L]

The church has had division and error from the beginning and anyone who thinks that means something is horribly wrong, are just as deceived as they believe the church is.

Divisions being proof of heresy, i would ask you who is deceived?

1 Corinthians 1:10 Now I exhort you, brethren, by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that you all [e]agree and that there be no [f]divisions among you, but that you be [g]made complete in the same mind and in the same judgment.

Titus 3:9 But avoid foolish controversies, genealogies, dissensions, and quarrels about the law, for they are unprofitable and worthless.

Romans 14:1 As for the one who is weak in faith, welcome him, but not to quarrel over opinions.

2 Timothy 2:14 Remind them of these things, and charge them before God not to quarrel about words, which does no good, but only ruins the hearers.

Galatians 5:19 Now the deeds of the flesh are evident, which are: immorality, impurity, sensuality, 20 idolatry, sorcery, enmities, strife, jealousy, outbursts of anger, disputes, dissensions, [j]factions, 21 envying, drunkenness, carousing, and things like these, of which I forewarn you, just as I have forewarned you, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God.