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The question cessationists must answer.
- Thread starter Billy Evmur
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- Jun 12, 2009
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Nor is Jesus teaching that the division he brings is based upon the baptism of the Holy Spirit. But do tell me which baptism it is that He is talking about in scripture?
LUK 12:50 I have a baptism to be baptized with; and how I am constrained until it is accomplished! 51 Do you think that I have come to give peace on earth? No, I tell you, but rather division; 52 for henceforth in one house there will be five divided, three against two and two against three;
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W2L
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Again, Jesus is talking about Israel, he was referring to dividing those who believe in Him from those who dont. This verse has nothing to do with dividing the Church. He knew many Jews would not believe in Him, thats what he means by causing division. THIS IS NOT TALKING ABOUT DIVIDING THE CHURCH HOWEVER.
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Correct Jesus made a predictive prophecy. Just like the prophecy that Jerusalem would fall in 70ad. Was Jerusalem continually being destroyed after that date. Or like the prophecy that Herod would kill the newborns - did he continue to kill them throughout the rest of his life. Mark 16 doesn't say those abilities would continue throughout the church age. If it was then why are Christians today not immune to deadly snake bites and drinking poison?
And all that is assuming that the 'long ending' of Mark is genuine and should have been included in the canon in the first place. Most bible scholars agree that it is not the authentic writings of Mark, but rather a later addition by a different scribe. The earliest and most reliable documents do not contain these verses, and the vocabulary and style is clearly different from the rest of Mark. (You can see it yourself - start reading Mark from a couple of a chapters earlier to familiarize yourself with his style of writing. It dramatically changes in Ch.16). Most commentaries on Mark omit those verses for that reason. Therefore the 'long ending' of Mark should not be relied upon for formulating doctrine.
BTW You still haven't answered my question. Where are we commanded to 'heal the sick, raise the dead, cast out demons'?
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YeshuaFan
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We who deny that the WoF is teaching from the scriptures proper theology, and that the Spirit is NOT with them in their heresies, are NOT denying the Holy Spirit, and we do indeed see many of the gifts still in operation, but some limited to just the Apostles of Christ!
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YeshuaFan
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hard to take theology from that passage, as iys in the disputed longer ending of Mark, and that account reads more like looking back at what once happened with those Apostles!
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YeshuaFan
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Jesus referred to even in ones own family, there shall be saved and lost, so the division will come about due to how one views Him! Paul commands us to seek to keep the unity of the Spirit within the Body of Christ, not to pray for division!
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YeshuaFan
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The part of the Charismatic Movement that has really caused division and problems have been mainly the WoF/Health and wealth/prosperity churches, as they have claimed additional revelations and claim to be speaking for God directly! The main stream Charismatics are wrong in much of their theology, but it does not rise to the outright heresy within those other groups!
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YeshuaFan
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They seem to believe that we are the ones causing it to happen, due to us being spiritually ignorant, as we are denying the WoF teachers are teaching correct doctrines and practices, as we are to them modern day Pharisees denying the Holy Spirit!
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- Jun 12, 2009
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You never answered the only question I asked. What baptism is Jesus talking about which causes division?
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Isn’t it funny how it’s the fallible ‘infallible Bible’ when it’s convenient for them to continue to argue for doctrinal divisiveness ?
Oh consistency, what a jewel thou are, to be found
In the doctrinally splintered church of today.
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- Jun 12, 2009
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If I ask a question it is because it does matter. Just because it doesn't matter to you makes me feel you just fear something you believe being brought to the light IMO. As I said before, I just waste my time with you. I'd do better trying to nail snot to a fence post than trying to get you to nail down BIBLICALLY what you believe. bye
bye again
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- Jun 12, 2009
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Anybody ever hear about the "fantasy" of a fundamental Baptist thinking their church isn't divisive?
Once I saw this guy on a bridge about to jump. I said, "Don't do it!" He said, "Nobody loves me." I said, "God loves you. Do you believe in God?"
He said, "Yes." I said, "Are you a Christian or a Jew?" He said, "A Christian." I said, "Me, too! Protestant or Catholic?" He said, "Protestant." I said, "Me, too! What franchise?" He said, "Baptist." I said, "Me, too! Northern Baptist or Southern Baptist?" He said, "Northern Baptist." I said, "Me, too! Northern Conservative Baptist or Northern Liberal Baptist?"
He said, "Northern Conservative Baptist." I said, "Me, too! Northern Conservative Baptist Great Lakes Region, or Northern Conservative Baptist Eastern Region?" He said, "Northern Conservative Baptist Great Lakes Region." I said, "Me, too!"
Northern Conservative†Baptist Great Lakes Region Council of 1879, or Northern Conservative Baptist Great Lakes Region Council of 1912?" He said, "Northern Conservative Baptist Great Lakes Region Council of 1912." I said, "Die, heretic!" And I pushed him over.
Once I saw this guy on a bridge about to jump. I said, "Don't do it!" He said, "Nobody loves me." I said, "God loves you. Do you believe in God?"
He said, "Yes." I said, "Are you a Christian or a Jew?" He said, "A Christian." I said, "Me, too! Protestant or Catholic?" He said, "Protestant." I said, "Me, too! What franchise?" He said, "Baptist." I said, "Me, too! Northern Baptist or Southern Baptist?" He said, "Northern Baptist." I said, "Me, too! Northern Conservative Baptist or Northern Liberal Baptist?"
He said, "Northern Conservative Baptist." I said, "Me, too! Northern Conservative Baptist Great Lakes Region, or Northern Conservative Baptist Eastern Region?" He said, "Northern Conservative Baptist Great Lakes Region." I said, "Me, too!"
Northern Conservative†Baptist Great Lakes Region Council of 1879, or Northern Conservative Baptist Great Lakes Region Council of 1912?" He said, "Northern Conservative Baptist Great Lakes Region Council of 1912." I said, "Die, heretic!" And I pushed him over.
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