The question cessationists must answer.

[Alithis]

There is one reason for division and that is because the churches are teaching different doctrines that dont agree.

they often are ..mixed with truth .. just like yours . lets be honest here

 

[Alithis]

I cant believe you guys don't see the problem here. Let me reiterate. If the churches are not in agreement then how can they be lead by spirit filled teachers with the gift for teaching? How? Tell me.

so this is also whats called strawman argument .
the point you began with about tongues not being tongues is proves to be ONLY your opinion.
moves to miracles not being for today proves to be ..only your opinion
moves to its only for apostles ..in the face of testimony that proves its not only apostles (stephen was not an apostle in that sense of being "one of the 1st twelve" .
now your moved yet again to waffling on about division proving lack of being spiritually led.

was the lord Jesus led of the Spirit ? yes
and what did he say? .. i do not come to bring peace but a sword ...
hmm so then, now its proven that division cannot be used to gauge whether one is led of the holy Spirit because- led of the holy Spirit JESUS said he brings division. -

ok . next?

 

[swordsman1]

That's right, there is division because some Christians started teaching the unscriptural doctrine that some of the gifts ceased when the NT apostles died. They were wrong, and Christians have been divided ever since.

Cessationism has been the predominant position of the church since the time of the church fathers, immediately after the apostolic age. The church wasn't split on the issue of cessationism until the Pentecostal/charismatic movement started at the beginning of the 20th century and wrongly claimed that the 'sign gifts' had been restored. Since then it has split the church right down the middle. In my area there have been a number of churches that have literally been torn apart thanks to infiltration by the charismatic movement.

 

[swordsman1]

You said, "But we are not talking about the Great Commission." Yes, we are! Read Mark's version of the Great Commission.

Mark 16:17-18--“Go into all the world and preach the gospel to the whole creation. Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved, but whoever does not believe will be condemned. And these signs will accompany those who believe: In My name they will drive out demons; they will speak in new languages; they will pick up snakes; if they should drink anything deadly, it will never harm them; they will lay hands on the sick, and they will get well.”

There is no command in that passage to 'heal the sick, raise the dead, cast out demons'. That command was given in Matthew 10.

In Mark 16 Jesus made a prediction about speaking in tongues, picking up deadly snakes, drinking poison, and casting out demons. It was fulfilled in the 1st century AD.

 

[swordsman1]

Apostles are also messengers of the churches , sent ones with a message as Barnabas and Paul were in Acts 13 and 14:14.They were sent as messengers of the churches to deliver the message to them.

Which church sent Peter, James and John? Apostles were sent by the Lord, not churches.

People sent by churches are called messengers.

 

[nonaeroterraqueous]

...has been the predominant position of the church since the time of the church fathers, immediately after the apostolic age. The church wasn't split on the issue ...until....Since then it has split the church right down the middle. In my area there have been a number of churches that have literally been torn apart thanks to infiltration....

You sound like a Catholic complaining about the Reformation. Shall we undo that, as well?

 

[swordsman1]

You sound like a Catholic complaining about the Reformation. Shall we undo that, as well?

Maybe you should ask some Catholic tongues speakers. The charismatic movement has infiltrated the Catholic church as well.

 

[Hillsage]

The ignorance of the arm chair theologians shines brightly. The unity of the SPIRIT is not based upon 'agreement' or 'conformity of doctrine'. Paul and Barnabas 'sharply' disagreed and split their ministry.

ACT 15:36 And after some days Paul said to Barnabas, "Come, let us return and visit the brethren in every city where we proclaimed the word of the Lord, and see how they are."
....39 And there arose a sharp contention, so that they separated from each other; Barnabas took Mark with him and sailed away to Cyprus,

And then Peter was actually CONDEMEND by Paul because of the "gospel OF the circumcision" which Peter preached. A gospel which was a mixture of law and grace because Peter and the Jerusalem boys were scared of the Jewish Christians. Paul did not preach that gospel, he preached the "gospel OF the uncircumcision".

KJV GAL 2:7 But contrariwise, when they saw that the gospel OF the uncircumcision was committed unto me, as the gospel OF the circumcision was unto Peter;

And don't listen to the lying pen of the scribes writing modern day translations in this verse which are not true to the Greek, as well as 'the truth'. The Greek word is OF and not TO.

And that gospel caused problems for sure. But, in hindsight we know that Peter was ministering to that religion which has lost its anointing, and was on its way out. Just like King Saul lost his anointing to David, who suffered for years in that transition from 'anointing to appointing' as King. So also is it just like the churches dying today because they will never partake in the move of the Spirit which will take 'the church of Jesus' to maturity based not upon "doctrines and commandments of men", but even as Jesus came to perfection by the leading of the Spirit.

GAL 2:11 But when Cephas came to Antioch I opposed him to his face, because he stood condemned.

Saul, called Paul was so ticked at Peter's hypocrisy at he wouldn't even call him by the 'spiritual' name which Jesus gave him. So here we have the foundational FATHERS of the very beginning of the church fighting and dividing. And then we have the 'doctrinal letter of the law of liberty' church of today thinking we're going to get it all together doctrinally.

Don't you know it isn't about the TALK, it's about the WALK. Heresy is necessary in the church so that those 'looking to judge' can do so based upon the character that matchs the character of the 'pattern son'.

1CO 11:19 For there must be also heresies among you, that they which are approved may be made manifest among you.

 

[YeshuaFan]

what a load of absolute incorrect misinformation lol

Kenneth Copeland teaches that, Fred price, Kenneth hagin did all teach that , as evidenced in all of those books already quoted by me, as they all have their direct quotes!

 

[YeshuaFan]

you defend "him ?" you dont appear to even know him ...

We know the real Holy Spirit, as he is the Spirit of truth, but many in the WOF do not know Him, as their theology did not come from Him!

 

[JoeP222w]

By what wisdom or power do YOU minister today? is it by human wisdom, accrued knowledge? or is it imparted to you by the Holy Ghost?

1.Corinthians.2.4-5
and my speech and my message were not in plausible words of wisdom, but in demonstration of the Spirit and power that your faith might not rest in the wisdom of men but in the power of God.

1.Corinthians.2.14.
The unspiritual man does not receive the gifts of the Spirit of God for they are folly to him and he is not able to understand them for they are spiritually discerned.

The word of God from the Bible. It is sufficient and inerrant.

 

[YeshuaFan]

thats nice - and a good thing . now start following the lord Jesus because he said .. the works I do you shall do also -- was he speaking the truth ?

He did NOT mean that we can raise the dead, forgive sins, grant eternal life as he did, but that we can a greater number in that we can as the Body of Christ here reach out to many more people than he could be localized in a human body!

 

[YeshuaFan]

The word of God from the Bible. It is sufficient and inerrant.

it is the ONLY inspired and infallible revelation to us by God!

 

[JoeP222w]

it is the ONLY inspired and infallible revelation to us by God!

I agree.

 

[YeshuaFan]

I agree.

And the Holy Spirit never gives theology and doctrines that disagree with what was already recorded down!

 

[Deborah D]

What has changed in this whole thread? The Holy Spirt gift deniers are still denying, and those of us enjoying ALL of the gifts of the Spirit will continue to enjoy them!

 

[Deborah D]

There is no command in that passage to 'heal the sick, raise the dead, cast out demons'. That command was given in Matthew 10.

In Mark 16 Jesus made a prediction about speaking in tongues, picking up deadly snakes, drinking poison, and casting out demons. It was fulfilled in the 1st century AD.

Wow! Jesus made a "prediction," eh? Is that all it was? You make Him sound like a cheap New Age psychic.

Mark 16---"And these signs will accompany those who believe: In My name they will drive out demons; they will speak in new languages; they will pick up snakes; if they should drink anything deadly, it will never harm them; they will lay hands on the sick, and they will get well.”

The PROPHECY of the Lord Jesus Christ was fulfilled in the 1st century, and it's still being fulfilled today for "those who believe"! Thank God!!!!!

 

[W2L]

so this is also whats called strawman argument .
the point you began with about tongues not being tongues is proves to be ONLY your opinion.
moves to miracles not being for today proves to be ..only your opinion
moves to its only for apostles ..in the face of testimony that proves its not only apostles (stephen was not an apostle in that sense of being "one of the 1st twelve" .
now your moved yet again to waffling on about division proving lack of being spiritually led.

was the lord Jesus led of the Spirit ? yes
and what did he say? .. i do not come to bring peace but a sword ...
hmm so then, now its proven that division cannot be used to gauge whether one is led of the holy Spirit because- led of the holy Spirit JESUS said he brings division. -

ok . next?

Jesus separates unbelievers from believers. That scripture is not saying Jesus causes the divisions in church.

 

[W2L]

they often are ..mixed with truth .. just like yours . lets be honest here

I am being honest. Im not the one claiming to be a teacher or apostle or healer.

 

[W2L]

many are not .. and that includes you and yours because ..your here in disagreement .so BY YOUR OWN standard .. your not led of the spirit .
oh .. did you think when you said that it would exclude you and "your" church . tch tch .

Im not the one teaching. Im simply asking you why your infalible teachers can't agree with each other. WHat happened? Does God teach division? No he doesnt, the apostle paul made that clear. He's a real apostle BTW.