The question cessationists must answer.

[Deborah D]

It doesn't look like I'm going to get a clear answer. Ho hum.

I'm in good company! Jesus didn't always give a clear answer to His critics who were trying to trip Him up....

But I will tell you this. I've heard many Christians say that they have heard the audible voice of God. My husband did. It doesn't matter to me whether I hear His voice in my ears or my mind or my heart or all of the above. What matters is that I KNOW what He is saying to me because HE makes it known.

 

[swordsman1]

Being baptized by the Holy spirit after conversion, is very very biblical, or you can listen to some theologan making excuses, i will not read all that anyway.

Not really. The only people to be baptized by the Spirit after their conversion were the disciples at Pentecost. And of course they were, the Spirit had not been given until that point. The only other reference to the Baptism of the Spirit is 1 Cor 12:13 that says all believers are baptized in the Spirit in order to make them part of the body of Christ. ie at conversion.

 

[Deborah D]

Not really. The only people to be baptized by the Spirit after their conversion were the disciples at Pentecost. And of course they were, the Spirit had not been given until that point. The only other reference to the Baptism of the Spirit is 1 Cor 12:13 that says all believers are baptized in the Spirit in order to make them part of the body of Christ. ie at conversion.

LOL! You are prideful!

See, I'm giving you the benefit of the doubt by not saying that you're lying. I know you really believe that you understand this completely.

 

[swordsman1]

The majority isn't ALL!

As I said, every time the word 'apostle' appears in scripture it means a 1st century apostle of Christ.

 

[Righttruth]

Any gift of tongues in Acts were unlearned real languages!

No, the spiritual gift of tongue is a known language unknown to speaker but recognized by some people present.

 

[Righttruth]

Like I said, what right do you have to say that someone praising God in a tongue is talking "gibberish"? Unless it's case of, "well I don't understand it, so it must be."

God never wants His will known through gibberish talk!

 

[Deborah D]

As I said, every time the word 'apostle' appears in scripture it means a 1st century apostle of Christ.

Well, I don't imagine the Bible would mention "apostles" of the 5th century!

The point is that the word wasn't only used to mean the 12 disciples or those whose writings were included in the canon of scripture. The word was used more broadly.

 

[Deborah D]

No, the spiritual gift of tongue is a known language unknown to speaker but recognized by some people present.

Does it really matter which way it is? It's not clear in Acts 2 whether the disciples were speaking in languages they didn't know or those present simply heard what was said in their own languages. Maybe it's just meant to be a mystery!

 

[NBB]

Not really. The only people to be baptized by the Spirit after their conversion were the disciples at Pentecost. And of course they were, the Spirit had not been given until that point. The only other reference to the Baptism of the Spirit is 1 Cor 12:13 that says all believers are baptized in the Spirit in order to make them part of the body of Christ. ie at conversion.

And Paul, and the other believers that 'did not hear about the Holy spirit' after conversion and i'm sure there were other examples.

 

[NBB]

LOL! You are prideful!

See, I'm giving you the benefit of the doubt by not saying that you're lying. I know you really believe that you understand this completely.

And the reference i gave you:

"For John baptized with water, but in a few days you will be baptized with the Holy Spirit."

edit: the post was not for you, sorry, was for the other person.

 

[Deborah D]

God never wants His will known through gibberish talk!

You know, RT, sometimes I hear a person speak in a foreign language (i.e. foreign to me), and it sounds like gibberish to me.

 

[Deborah D]

And the reference i gave you:

"For John baptized with water, but in a few days you will be baptized with the Holy Spirit."

edit: the post was not for you, sorry, was for the other person.

That's ok! Sometimes I think this forum messes up. But I agree with what you're saying.

 

[AbbaLove]

These things have been debated among Christians ever since I can remember. Don't let the Swordsman make you think that he understands all of this or that his understanding is the truth

​

Amen!​

The true church planters (continualists) are humble servants that move in the same Giftings as the 1st Century Apostles, but most likely wouldn't refer to themselves as an apostle even though others might consider them to be an apostle ... not capitalized to honor the 1st Century Apostles (capitalized).

It really gets down to one's FAITH. A special wonder-working FAITH is one of the nine supernatural Giftings. However, if you've been taught cessationism it's to be expected that your concept of these supernatural Gifts have limited your Faith.

 

[Righttruth]

Does it really matter which way it is? It's not clear in Acts 2 whether the disciples were speaking in languages they didn't know or those present simply heard what was said in their own languages. Maybe it's just meant to be a mystery!

No, it got to be a awesome power of the Holy Spirit to utter through a person an existing foreign language unknown to the speaker but recognized by people present.

 

[Righttruth]

You know, RT, sometimes I hear a person speak in a foreign language (i.e. foreign to me), and it sounds like gibberish to me.

But if it is recognized by a person present, that is the Holy Spirit speaking without an interpreter!That is the way of the Holy Spirit, requiring no interpreter.

 

[Strong in Him]

God never wants His will known through gibberish talk!

Well sorry, but I'm not replying to you any more.
I've said, several times, that you have no reason to call praying in tongues "gibberish", yet you persist in doing so. I don't know if you find it amusing, but to me it smacks of arrogance.

Then again, I seem to remember from other threads that you doubt the Trinity, or some other major Christian doctrine. If it is the case that you don't believe in the presence, nature or work of the Spirit, it's not surprising that you won't understand the gifts that he gives.

 

[Strong in Him]

As I said, every time the word 'apostle' appears in scripture it means a 1st century apostle of Christ.

Not EVERY time, no.
It means "sent" and is applied to those who are sent by God. Most of the time it does refer to the 12, yes. But I believe that it is used occasionally in reference to the OT prophets - and once in relation to ALL believers.

 

[Alithis]

Im not judging, im debating an issue, and your response is that im judging? Get real my friend, thats not how debates work.

I asked: are you doing the things you say "they" should be doing ?
If not then we dont have the right to say they should be doing them.

 

[Alithis]

Ha! That would be funny if it were not SO tragic! Medicine probably kills as many people in the U.S. as disease! I'm not ruling out the possibility of God using doctors--if God directs a Christian to seek medical advice. But it doesn't pay for a Christian to place his/her trust in medical science.

That is a refreshingly radical statement..
Love it

 

[Alithis]

Yes Jesus did a lot of that didn't he.

46And they come to Jericho...............and ......a blind beggar, Bartimaeus, son of Timaeus, was sitting beside the road. 47And having heard that it is Jesus of Nazareth, he began to cry out and to say, “Jesus, Son of David, have mercy on me.”
……….…………….
51And Jesus answering him says, “What do you desire I should do to you?”
And the blind man said to Him, “Rabboni, that I may receive sight.”
52And Jesus said to him, “You really need to see an optician"

...
CF rules say we cant say people should not Go to doctors.
I guess they are concerned with law suites i dunno.
So be cautious of being goaded into a rule violation by devious unbelievers..
Go to your Doctor for diagnoses ..declaration of curse naming your sickness.. Treatments that may cause your organs to fail later in life.. But give short term alleviation ..or go to Jesus and be healed.

What made me laugh was the ludecrousness of the sentance ..he might heal you by death..haha. My my.. Thats the best one yet. .. Healing by death.