The question cessationists must answer.

[YeshuaFan]

That's the point I was making, (although there's just as much demon inspired paganism around the west these days, albeit under more respectable names.)

And because of their idol worshipping background, they are far more aware of the demonic realm than westerners whose theology has been polluted by Enlightenment philosophy. And having ministered high in the mountains of Nepal, I know this is true for a fact.

When they get saved, they are very aware of the need for deliverance from the demons that come from their previous life, so they get on and do it with thankfully, no fool theologian to tell them its wrong.​

Jesus originated the preaching of the gospel, but that didn't remove the need for him to cast demons out wherever he went. Nor do you find anywhere in his preaching where he tells a demonised person that he only needs to get saved and it'll all disappear.

And finally, those remote Nepalis were all baptised in the Holy Spirit, speaking in tongues, prophesying etc, long before arrived​

That last part just shows to us that they needed to get back into the sound doctrines of the scriptures, and put themselves under biblical teaching and application!

 

[YeshuaFan]

Mark 16:17-18 is not a command, its a prophecy. It was fulfilled in the 1st century AD. I notice you didn't quote the next verse. Nobody today is immune from deadly snake bites and drinking poison. Those 2 are rather harder to counterfeit.

That's if you assume the long ending was written by Mark, and all the evidence points to it not being him.

We should not be basing our entire theological foundation and ministry upon a disputed passage, that was probably inserted by someone who wanted to expand and flesh out the original ending, and they used the evidence of what the Apostles did for that!

 

[YeshuaFan]

There are signs of an apostle and a sign of a disciple. The signs of an apostle are that they can heal, cast out demons, drink deadly poison and not die, ect. Here is the sign of a disciple, its quite simple:

John 13:35 By this all men will know that you are My disciples, if you have love for one another.”.

Love is greater than anything. Its no small thing.

The Apostles occupied a unique position at a specific time, and there was no more need for them to continue!

 

[YeshuaFan]

Completely wrong.
It says casting demons out is a sign following those who believe.
It doesn't mention apostles.

Except that the Apostles were the ones gifted by God to be doing that very thing, and interesting that none of them outside of Acts even mentioned that as a ministry to to be done for Jesus, correct?

 

[YeshuaFan]

Sure that statement has some 'comfort' on it very nice and all, except is a lie!
Demons just don't go because you convert and teaching that is against our well being.
I myself also didn't think that demons were so problematic, but God showed me my own spiritual problems with evil spirits, to resolve them, i assure a long while after converting, teaching that christians don't have problems with evil spirits is just wrong.

Problems with demonic forces does not mean to be possessed by them though!

 

[NBB]

Problems with demonic forces does not mean to be possessed by them though!

You can still have them there causing a lot of trouble, and not be possesed, and they need to be cast out.

 

[W2L]

The Apostles occupied a unique position at a specific time, and there was no more need for them to continue!

There is a need for real apostles, to fix all the divisive theology in the denominations. But thats my fallible opinion. God knows and His will be done.

I dont agree with churches today. I think they may have lost their way. God doesn't want us to be infants who always need a teacher. No the Word dwells in us and He teaches us. He matures us. Tradition has run amuck. It divides us but no one cares enough to fix their own fallible traditions. Everyone thinks they are right and they need no reform.

I believe in simplicity not tradition. Praise the Lord for showing me simplicity. Take my yoke upon you says the Lord, my yoke is easy and my burden light. Amen.

 

[Righttruth]

No, as he called the original 11, and I see Paul as the One chosen by Him to replace judas!

Not as an apostle. You can't deny that apostles were led by the Spirit to choose Matthias.

 

[Alithis]

No need to cast out demons from a saved person, but that person having mental issues can turn to the sacred scriptures and find relief for worry and doubts!

said by a person whom i suspect has never cast a devil out of ANY person.

Its amazing how many who have never are sone how self proclaimed experts on the topic.

Well i assure you..where there is sin in a persons life devils are not far away.
And as poibted out before.
Devils (which are spirits of pure lie and evil)are not cast out from either non Christians or Christians.
They are cast out of "human bodies" .

The human body of flesh can certainy have evil spirits in it.
Flesh and blood is corrupted and cannot enter the kingdom of God.
An evil spirit can cohabitate a human body and do very very often.
An evil spirit cannot enter another spirit.
But they can enter the shell that houses another spirit.
And where there is bondage of sin or sickness or torment.
There be very often ..devils.

Jesus gave us both authority and instructions to "drive them out"

But you'll never experience doing so while your listening to and believing the very evil spirits telling you ..no Did god reeealy say that ...no no that doesnt apoly to you no no doubt it disbelieve it...
Your just listening to the spirits of this world.

 

[Billy Evmur]

Does God promise that all of his people will have healings and miracles and have easy living? Read Hebrews 11 for the answer!

No but if you read Paul's teaching on the Body of Christ it is clear that each member should have a participation in the gifts of the Holy Spirit.

All those folks in Hebrews 11 succeeded big time, many of them were prosperous, none of them were sick.

Jesus warns that with prosperity comes persecution. We are not looking for easy living but victory over the devil.

Victory over sin
victory over sickness and disease
victory over poverty

Victory over false teachings in the church which say good is evil and evil is good, sweet is bitter and bitter is sweet.

 

[Billy Evmur]

Paul had some type of eye disease many believe, and do you deny then that the grace of God is sufficient for those saved or are say in wheelchairs like joni Erickson, whom God used her infirmity for His greater glory far more so than if she had been physical healed?

God bless Joni...I believe in healing...what unbelievers say is "Joni is a wonderful person, how can she believe in a God who keeps her sick like that...."

 

[Francis Drake]

When did Jesus command that to us in the Great Commission, as that is the working orders for his church now!

You have asked this before, and I have repeatedly posted chapter and verse to you before, yet you just ignore it. The commissioning by Jesus as reported in all three gospels carry equal validity, so please don't waste your breath trying to say this passage doesn't count.


Here are your working orders for the church. Are you doing them?
Mark16v15And He said to them, “Having gone into all the world, proclaim the gospel to all the creation. 16The one having believed and having been baptized will be saved, but the one having disbelieved will be condemned. 17And these signs will accompany those having believed: In My name they will cast out demons; they will speak with new tongues; 18and with their hands they will take up serpents; and if they drink anything deadly, it shall never hurt them; they will lay hands upon the sick, and they will be well.”

And just in case you missed it, here it is again.

15And He said to them, “Having gone into all the world, proclaim the gospel to all the creation. 16The one having believed and having been baptized will be saved, but the one having disbelieved will be condemned. 17And these signs will accompany those having believed: In My name they will cast out demons; they will speak with new tongues; 18and with their hands they will take up serpents; and if they drink anything deadly, it shall never hurt them; they will lay hands upon the sick, and they will be well.”

and again

15And He said to them, “Having gone into all the world, proclaim the gospel to all the creation. 16The one having believed and having been baptized will be saved, but the one having disbelieved will be condemned. 17And these signs will accompany those having believed: In My name they will cast out demons; they will speak with new tongues; 18and with their hands they will take up serpents; and if they drink anything deadly, it shall never hurt them; they will lay hands upon the sick, and they will be well.”

and again.
15And He said to them, “Having gone into all the world, proclaim the gospel to all the creation. 16The one having believed and having been baptized will be saved, but the one having disbelieved will be condemned. 17And these signs will accompany those having believed: In My name they will cast out demons; they will speak with new tongues; 18and with their hands they will take up serpents; and if they drink anything deadly, it shall never hurt them; they will lay hands upon the sick, and they will be well.”

 

[swordsman1]

Did Jesus command us to pick up deadly snakes and drink poison as well? (they are part of the same sentence)

 

[Alithis]

Did Jesus command us to pick up deadly snakes and drink poison as well? (they are part of the same sentence)

Lol we can see you Ignoring the text in order to pluck out part of it..
This ..take up serpants ..occured in the book of acts when buikding a fire a snake cam out and bit pauls hand. But he was unharmed by it..
Thats what its talking about.
Not the clowns that purposly pick up snakes.
They are a fringe sect like cessationists.

 

[Alithis]

You have asked this before, and I have repeatedly posted chapter and verse to you before, yet you just ignore it. The commissioning by Jesus as reported in all three gospels carry equal validity, so please don't waste your breath trying to say this passage doesn't count.


Here are your working orders for the church. Are you doing them?
Mark16v15And He said to them, “Having gone into all the world, proclaim the gospel to all the creation. 16The one having believed and having been baptized will be saved, but the one having disbelieved will be condemned. 17And these signs will accompany those having believed: In My name they will cast out demons; they will speak with new tongues; 18and with their hands they will take up serpents; and if they drink anything deadly, it shall never hurt them; they will lay hands upon the sick, and they will be well.”

And just in case you missed it, here it is again.

15And He said to them, “Having gone into all the world, proclaim the gospel to all the creation. 16The one having believed and having been baptized will be saved, but the one having disbelieved will be condemned. 17And these signs will accompany those having believed: In My name they will cast out demons; they will speak with new tongues; 18and with their hands they will take up serpents; and if they drink anything deadly, it shall never hurt them; they will lay hands upon the sick, and they will be well.”

and again

15And He said to them, “Having gone into all the world, proclaim the gospel to all the creation. 16The one having believed and having been baptized will be saved, but the one having disbelieved will be condemned. 17And these signs will accompany those having believed: In My name they will cast out demons; they will speak with new tongues; 18and with their hands they will take up serpents; and if they drink anything deadly, it shall never hurt them; they will lay hands upon the sick, and they will be well.”

and again.
15And He said to them, “Having gone into all the world, proclaim the gospel to all the creation. 16The one having believed and having been baptized will be saved, but the one having disbelieved will be condemned. 17And these signs will accompany those having believed: In My name they will cast out demons; they will speak with new tongues; 18and with their hands they will take up serpents; and if they drink anything deadly, it shall never hurt them; they will lay hands upon the sick, and they will be well.”

Just thought id quote you
Incase he still missed it..

You have asked this before, and I have repeatedly posted chapter and verse to you before, yet you just ignore it. The commissioning by Jesus as reported in all three gospels carry equal validity, so please don't waste your breath trying to say this passage doesn't count.


Here are your working orders for the church. Are you doing them?
Mark16v15And He said to them, “Having gone into all the world, proclaim the gospel to all the creation. 16The one having believed and having been baptized will be saved, but the one having disbelieved will be condemned. 17And these signs will accompany those having believed: In My name they will cast out demons; they will speak with new tongues; 18and with their hands they will take up serpents; and if they drink anything deadly, it shall never hurt them; they will lay hands upon the sick, and they will be well.”

And just in case you missed it, here it is again.

15And He said to them, “Having gone into all the world, proclaim the gospel to all the creation. 16The one having believed and having been baptized will be saved, but the one having disbelieved will be condemned. 17And these signs will accompany those having believed: In My name they will cast out demons; they will speak with new tongues; 18and with their hands they will take up serpents; and if they drink anything deadly, it shall never hurt them; they will lay hands upon the sick, and they will be well.”

and again

15And He said to them, “Having gone into all the world, proclaim the gospel to all the creation. 16The one having believed and having been baptized will be saved, but the one having disbelieved will be condemned. 17And these signs will accompany those having believed: In My name they will cast out demons; they will speak with new tongues; 18and with their hands they will take up serpents; and if they drink anything deadly, it shall never hurt them; they will lay hands upon the sick, and they will be well.”

and again.
15And He said to them, “Having gone into all the world, proclaim the gospel to all the creation. 16The one having believed and having been baptized will be saved, but the one having disbelieved will be condemned. 17And these signs will accompany those having believed: In My name they will cast out demons; they will speak with new tongues; 18and with their hands they will take up serpents; and if they drink anything deadly, it shall never hurt them; they will lay hands upon the sick, and they will be well.”

 

[swordsman1]

Lol we can see you Ignoring the text in order to pluck out part of it..
This ..take up serpants ..occured in the book of acts when buikding a fire a snake cam out and bit pauls hand. But he was unharmed by it..
Thats what its talking about.
Not the clowns that purposly pick up snakes.
They are a fringe sect like cessationists.

But our friend Francis said that in this verse Jesus was "commanding us" to cast out devils. That was just one item in a list of 4 supernatural abilities. If Jesus commanded us to cast out demons then he also commanded us to pick up deadly snakes and drink poison as well.

But you are right of course, those two abilities were not commands but a prophecy which you rightly say was fulfilled in the first century AD. But the problem for continuists remains - if picking up snakes and drinking poison was only for the first century, then so was speaking in tongues and casting out demons. You can't just arbitrarily declare two of them to be the valid for believers today, but the other two (the two hardest to counterfeit) are not. That is bad hermeneutics. The truth is that all 4 were for the first century only. This is a verse that confirms cessationism not refutes it.

 

[W2L]

But our friend Francis said in this verse Jesus was "commanding us" to cast out devils. That was just one item in a list of 4 supernatural abilities. If Jesus commanded us to cast out demons then he also commanded us to pick up deadly snakes and drink poison as well.

Yes exactly.

 

[Alithis]

Now youve come full circle..
1.i never said its only for then .
2 . how many times do we testify in the name of Jesus of all the gifts in operation today?
3. You have ZERO scripture upon which to say the Holy spirit ceased being the Holy Spirit of God.

 

[swordsman1]

Now youve come full circle..
1.i never said its only for then .
2 . how many times do we testify in the name of Jesus of all the gifts in operation today?
3. You have ZERO scripture upon which to say the Holy spirit ceased being the Holy Spirit of God.

So believers today are immune from deadly snake bites and drinking poison, just as they can speak in tongues and cast out devils?

 

[W2L]

So believers today are immune from deadly snake bites and drinking poison, just as they can speak in tongues and cast out devils?

We must have the gift of drinking poison? (rhetorical question.)