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What can you expect from people who are deluded and allow tail to wag the body!Pentecostalism's claim that is it the "Full gospel" is an affront to the redemptive work of Christ. It implies the gospel is somehow lacking and you do not have the 'full gospel' unless you subscribe to Pentecostalism.
Jesus specifically chose 12 as apostles to judge the twelve tribes. Judas forfeited his status and was replaced by Matthias. The rest are self-claims!No you are in error here. Just because Paul refers to a past even using “we” to refer to eithe he Silis and Timothy or he and Silus. Does not change the context of vs 6. When addresses them. We already saw that the we addressing the church was Paul Silvanus and Timotheus so the we as apostles would include all three.
Also I have to check wether Timothy was wityPsul and Silus in the situation and perhaps only Paul and Silus were taken so they may have all been there.
And because Luke may not have recorded every detail doesn’t mean it didn’t happen. The words “we” “us” and “our @ refer to all three of them or two f them in certain context. Either way vs 6 is clearkyall three of them speaking in context to the Church. All through chapter 1,2,3 we see Paul speaking in the plural form of he Dilvanus and Timotheus.
Those who are led by the Holy Spirit are reminded of Jesus' sayings (John 14:26). No concept is sound if it does't complement the sayings of Jesus.Woah, like a true cessationist there!, if you say God opening your eyes to spiritual truths, or things that the Holy spirit do are 'subjective' experiences you can't rely on, then you are more mistaken.
The spiritual truths need to be revealed to you by God, either with understanding from God or an experience, you don't get them by just reading a phrase.
I have received the Holy Spirit speak in my native tongue and an existing foreign tongue. I might have prophesied, Jesus has appeared in my dreams twice and have visions, yet I am a sinner.Thats your answer?
The question was...
have you recieved the holy Spirit and do you speak in tongues, heal the sick, prophecy ,dream dreams, have visions are you FREE from sin ?
All kinds of sundry people claim that Lord has spoken to them only to reveal utter nonsense!Having a strong feeling and claiming it is God's voice or a 'word from the Lord" is very unbiblical. Where in scripture are feelings described as the voice of God? I've just shown from scripture the only possible meaning of God's 'voice'. If I'm wrong then please refute it.
I simply observe the folks who claim to be gifted and note how divided they are. Is division a gift of the Spirit?. You ignore my point about the divisions in the church and go on your little rant about how you have the gifts and we dont.
The gibberish talk ceased as advised by Paul. It got relapsed a few decades ago and burning like wild fire with different delusionsThe cessationist accusation, that those who move in the gifts cause division, has to be the most profoundly hypocritical and foolish of all possible arguments. An argument that immediately incriminates themselves!
Their main claim is that the gifts ceased with the death of the apostles, and that "false" gifts only reappeared in around 1900.
That scenario leaves a clear 1800 years of church history with no gifts around to blame for division.
It also leaves 1800 years of church history ruled entirely by people who obviously believed the gifts had ceased, ie. cessationists.
So the question we ask is, how did the church fare in keeping itself free of division for 1800 years?
(Do we burst out laughing now or later, -restrain yourselves please.)
History shows that any trace of church unity in that period was only by force of arms and mass slaughter.
History also shows that even with no gifts, the church still tore itself apart, solely under the rule of giftless disunited theologians!
And as for cessationists today, how do they, (minus the wicked gifts,) fare with church unity?
(Pleeeeeeese can we laugh now?)
No, if you read the chapter we read of Timothy being taken along. It says Paul and Silus were "caught", it is very possible Timothy imply did not get caught.
as we read
"1 Then came he to Derbe and Lystra: and, behold, a certain disciple was there, named Timotheus, the son of a certain woman, which was a Jewess, and believed; but his father was a Greek:
2 Which was well reported of by the brethren that were at Lystra and Iconium.
3 Him [Timotheus] would Paul have to go forth with him; and took and circumcised him because of the Jews which were in those quarters: for they knew all that his father was a Greek.
4 And as they went through the cities, they delivered them the decrees for to keep, that were ordained of the apostles and elders which were at Jerusalem.
5 And so were the churches established in the faith, and increased in number daily.
6 Now when they had gone throughout Phrygia and the region of Galatia, and were forbidden of the Holy Ghost to preach the word in Asia,
7 After they were come to Mysia, they assayed to go into Bithynia: but the Spirit suffered them not.
8 And they passing by Mysia came down to Troas.
9 And a vision appeared to Paul in the night; There stood a man of Macedonia, and prayed him, saying, Come over into Macedonia, and help us.
10 And after he had seen the vision, immediately we endeavoured to go into Macedonia, assuredly gathering that the Lord had called us for to preach the gospel unto them.
11 Therefore loosing from Troas, we came with a straight course to Samothracia, and the next day to Neapolis;
12 And from thence to Philippi, which is the chief city of that part of Macedonia, and a colony: and we were in that city abiding certain days.
13 And on the sabbath we went out of the city by a river side, where prayer was wont to be made; and we sat down, and spake unto the women which resorted thither.
14 And a certain woman named Lydia, a seller of purple, of the city of Thyatira, which worshipped God, heard us: whose heart the Lord opened, that she attended unto the things which were spoken of Paul.
15 And when she was baptized, and her household, she besought us, saying, If ye have judged me to be faithful to the Lord, come into my house, and abide there. And she constrained us.
16 And it came to pass, as we went to prayer, a certain damsel possessed with a spirit of divination met us, which brought her masters much gain by soothsaying:
17 The same followed Paul and us, and cried, saying, These men are the servants of the most high God, which shew unto us the way of salvation.
18 And this did she many days. But Paul, being grieved, turned and said to the spirit, I command thee in the name of Jesus Christ to come out of her. And he came out the same hour.
19 And when her masters saw that the hope of their gains was gone, they caught Paul and Silas, and drew them into the marketplace unto the rulers,"(Acts 16:1-19 KJV)
There are many and vexacious reasons why this is so, not least that 80% of the church do not believe that healing is included in salvation, don't believe it don't preach it, don't expect it so don't receive it.
The church is backslidden, how come so many, many Christians are living sinful lifestyles?
I would not say [never, never] that every sin is linked to individual sin but it is linked to faith.
Look suppose you were sick, but you were not sure if healing is from God? if God were to heal you, you would always have a worry, a doubt in your mind as to whether or not your healing was from God or was a deception. Your trust in God so far as the salvation of your soul is so much more important.
Let me say this. the promise for healing is as rock solid in scripture as the promise of pardon, in fact they are in the very same passages of scripture, there is not a Christian ever born who doubts the portion concerning pardon but they do doubt the portion concerning healing.
Until healing is preached and believed in [by preachers] with the same faith and certainty as pardon we will never see the great works as witnessed in the bible.
Healing is no way related to salvation. Real faith demands being faithful despite rejection of a prayer!So if a faithful Christian with terminal cancer has been praying for months to be healed, and on death's door asks you why she wasn't healed, you would say "It's because you don't have enough faith".
How cruel is that. Not only is it cruel, it is a lie.
The cessationist accusation, that those who move in the gifts cause division, has to be the most profoundly hypocritical and foolish of all possible arguments. An argument that immediately incriminates themselves!
Their main claim is that the gifts ceased with the death of the apostles, and that "false" gifts only reappeared in around 1900.
That scenario leaves a clear 1800 years of church history with no gifts around to blame for division.
It also leaves 1800 years of church history ruled entirely by people who obviously believed the gifts had ceased, ie. cessationists.
So the question we ask is, how did the church fare in keeping itself free of division for 1800 years?
(Do we burst out laughing now or later, -restrain yourselves please.)
History shows that any trace of church unity in that period was only by force of arms and mass slaughter.
History also shows that even with no gifts, the church still tore itself apart, solely under the rule of giftless disunited theologians!
And as for cessationists today, how do they, (minus the wicked gifts,) fare with church unity?
(Pleeeeeeese can we laugh now?)
You want me to believe that Catholicism and Protestantism is taught by the same God?
Im not blaming division on the gifts, im blaming it on the lack of gifts. Churchy division is my evidence that the church doesnt seem to have any true gifts anymore.Between the death of the apostles and 1900, when cessationists claim the gifts suddenly reappeared, (their words not mine), both Catholic and Protestant cessationists controlled the church, and both tried to maintain unity on their sides of the debate by torture and murder, with no possible help from the gifts.
Whether its Catholic or Protestant Cessationism
, both sides are taught by the same false God.
So stop blaming division on the gifts, when you lot have centuries of division to your discredit.
Looking back over your recent posts, I would never have concluded that, hence my posts.Im not blaming division on the gifts, im blaming it on the lack of gifts. Churchy division is my evidence that the church doesnt seem to have any true gifts anymore.
Timothy could easily have suffered and been mistreated in the city in different ways. But if all three were together and certain ones were persecuted it could be looked upon as “they” were all mistreated.the severe persecution may have happened to Paul and Silus but this does not eliminate Timothy from being mistreated and suffering as a Christian in Philippi1 Thes 2:2 says "but after we had already suffered and been mistreated in Philippi,".
The only people who had suffered and been mistreated in Philippi were Paul and Silas. Both men were seized and were "beaten with rods" and "struck with many blows", then thrown into prison with their feet fastened in stocks (Acts 16:22-24). Timothy wasn't mistreated at all.
The "we" in 1 Thes 2:2 is Paul and Silas, not Timothy.
Wrong, we read of prophets and teachers in the church in Acts 13. We read that Barnabas was one of them then the Holy Ghost sent him forty with Paul this made him an apostle. We see this clearly in Acts 14:14Jesus specifically chose 12 as apostles to judge the twelve tribes. Judas forfeited his status and was replaced by Matthias. The rest are self-claims!
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