The question cessationists must answer.

[Francis Drake]

You see my 4 year old brother died when I was 12. After the funeral I was sitting on our porch devastated when my uncle came out and sit down beside me and said; "It's all right D, God just wanted another flower for his garden in the sky." Now I know that he meant well with that comment. But spiritually what happened to me, was he opened a door for the devil to plant a seed of bitterness toward God in my heart, from that day forth. I never forgot telling God that "If you wanted a stinking flower all YOU had to do was create one. You sure didn't have to kill my brother to get one."

Exactly, thanks.
I have seen similar this many times, and it is one of the most evil of Satan's catalogue of Doctrines of demons.
Shame on those who perpetuate it.

 

[swordsman1]

Prophecy today runs from absolute certainty of what we speak, down to hesitant words that need checking and confirmation.

That is not prophecy. There was never any uncertainty in the prophets in the bible that God had spoken to them. And it was never feelings or thoughts popping into their heads, it was God speaking actual words to the prophet to pass on. Show me anywhere in scripture where prophecy was 'hesitant words that need checking and confirmation'.

 

[Francis Drake]

And are the apostles you say we have today the same type as 2000 years ago ie. miracle working, eye-witness, infallible spokesmen for Christ? If not then you must agree that particular gift has ceased.

You are quoting rules of men, not the Lord Jesus.

Same with prophecy. One form of prophecy is scripture writing. Unless you say the canon is open, then you agree that form of the gift ceased.

Again you are making stuff up.
Not all apostles wrote scripture, and some scripture was written by those not listed as apostles. ie. Mark and Luke.
And I have repeatedly stated that the gifts today are not about adding to the canon, so please stop making that idiotic accusation.

You are a cessationist to some degree.

Nothing I have ever said makes me remotely like you or any other cessationist.

Cessationism is a doctrine of demons. ​

 

[Francis Drake]

But that same dead mortal body in the ground will be raised and changed into a glorious incorruptible body that will have no sickness, pain, or disabilities.

Someone who has suffered from a painful disability all their lives will be fully restored in the life to come.

"There shall be no more pain, for the former things have passed away." Rev. 22:4

All of which has nothing to do with the demonic claim that dying is healing.
I challenge you to show me anywhere in scripture that says dying is any form of healing.

John10v10“The thief comes only to steal and kill and destroy; I came that they may have life, and have it abundantly.

According to Jesus, the antithesis of death is abundant life. But according to your sick theology, someone dying is the same as abundant life.

 

[Francis Drake]

You are making assumptions. It doesn't say these 2 prophets would be raised up in Jerusalem. Nor does it say there were no other prophets in Jerusalem. And even if was in Jerusalem and there weren't any prophets there that wouldn't stop God from bringing in 2 existing prophets from elsewhere.

It is you who has made false assumptions here. Go back and read again.
Revelation11 is centred around the Temple. And it states clearly that their ministry is in that city and that is where they will be killed.
Rev11v8And their body will be upon the street of the great city, which is called spiritually Sodom and Egypt, where also their Lord was crucified.

God would only need to raise up 2 prophets if there were none around to begin with.

This certainly doesn't disprove cessationism as continuists like to claim. Ironically it is more the opposite.

I didn't bring the subject up. I was just, and am still, rejecting the false idea that it somehow proved your cessationism. It does nothing of the sort.

 

[swordsman1]

As such they are a wonderful gift to the church, and it is so sad to see you rejecting such a blessing.

A blessing to the church???!!! You're joking aren't you. Nothing could be further from the truth. What people call prophecy today is a great danger to the church.

Fuzzy feelings and thoughts popping into people's heads is not prophecy. And then to presumptuously declare them to be a 'word from the Lord' when it is no such thing is nothing less than false prophecy - a crime punishable by death in the Old Testament. And innocent Christians thinking it really is a message from God are coerced into making disastrous decisions which can, and often do, wreck their lives.

 

[swordsman1]

You are quoting rules of men, not the Lord Jesus.

No, that is how scripture describes apostles. Do we still have miracle working, eyewitness, infallible spokesmen for Christ today?

No? Then you are a cessationist to some degree.

Again you are making stuff up.
Not all apostles wrote scripture, and some scripture was written by those not listed as apostles. ie. Mark and Luke.

I'm not making it up. Any kind of scripture writing is a form of prophecy.

2 Peter 1:20-21 "But know this first of all, that no prophecy of Scripture is a matter of one’s own interpretation, for no prophecy was ever made by an act of human will, but men moved by the Holy Spirit spoke from God."​

Do we still have that kind of prophecy today?

No? Then you are a cessationist to some degree.

 

[swordsman1]

All of which has nothing to do with the demonic claim that dying is healing.
I challenge you to show me anywhere in scripture that says dying is any form of healing.

I never said dying is healing.

According to Jesus, the antithesis of death is abundant life. But according to your sick theology, someone dying is the same as abundant life.

Not death itself, but what follows death is abundant pain-free life.

 

[swordsman1]

Revelation11 is centred around the Temple. And it states clearly that their ministry is in that city and that is where they will be killed.
Rev11v8And their body will be upon the street of the great city, which is called spiritually Sodom and Egypt, where also their Lord was crucified.

As I said, even if they were in Jerusalem, it doesn't say there were no other prophets there as you presumptuously claimed. And even if there weren't any that wouldn't stop God from bringing prophets in from outside.

So the lack of prophets in Jerusalem is not the reason God has to raise up 2 prophets. More likely it is the lack of prophets anywhere - because the gift has ceased just as scripture says it would.

I didn't bring the subject up. I was just, and am still, rejecting the false idea that it somehow proved your cessationism. It does nothing of the sort.

It doesn't prove cessationism, but I just find it ironic that people use the 2 witnesses as a proof text for continuationism, when if anything it demonstrates the opposite.

 

[Francis Drake]

That is not prophecy. There was never any uncertainty in the prophets in the bible that God had spoken to them. And it was never feelings or thoughts popping into their heads, it was God speaking actual words to the prophet to pass on.

Again you speak from complete ignorance.
You have no idea what happened outside of what is written down in scripture.

No one man has all the answers or revelations in the body of Christ. That's why Paul laboured to show how the body works together as one, rather than one man at the front lording it over the flock.

1Cor13v9For we know in part and we prophesy in part; 10but when the perfect should come, the partial will be done away.
As stated previously, my prophetic insight isn't always as sharp as at other times. I see things partly and sometimes struggle to describe what I see in visions or dreams.
That's not surprising given that we prophesy in part.

Show me anywhere in scripture where prophecy was 'hesitant words that need checking and confirmation'.

​

1Cor14v29Let two or three prophets speak, and let the others pass judgment.
The fact that others had to weigh the prophecies indicates that human error can creep in. The collective responsibility of the mature believers was to discern if that had happened.
I have seen that happen and have been involved in bringing it back on course.

v32and the spirits of prophets are subject to prophets;
We have command over our voices, whether its prophecy or describing a vision we have been given.

 

[Francis Drake]

I never said dying is healing.

Everything you have said in this discourse implies that's what you meant, and you are still trying it on here.

Not death itself, but what follows death is abundant pain-free life.

Or if not saved, a pain filled eternity.

But this has absolutely nothing to do with healing a sick body has it, and you should stop perpetuating such deception.

When a person's spirit departs from a sick body because it can no longer sustain life, to describe it as a healing is out and out lies of the most underhand and ungodly nature.
That person is now totally dead to all his relatives and loved ones etc.

Imagine a doctor or surgeon trying such deception on the relatives of a now dead patient. He would be run out of the profession, yet Christians think they can get away with such lies.

And you still haven't shown me where you prove this from scripture.

 

[swordsman1]

You have no idea what happened outside of what is written down in scripture.

Well at least you admit that today's prophecy goes beyond what is written.

1Cor13v9For we know in part and we prophesy in part; 10but when the perfect should come, the partial will be done away.
As stated previously, my prophetic insight isn't always as sharp as at other times. I see things partly and sometimes struggle to describe what I see in visions or dreams.
That's not surprising given that we prophesy in part.

That is just a plain distortion of scripture. Prophesying 'in part' does not mean 'in uncertainty'.

In scripture God spoke to the prophets loudly and clearly. There was never any doubt.

The fact that others had to weigh the prophecies indicates that human error can creep in. The collective responsibility of the mature believers was to discern if that had happened.
I have seen that happen and have been involved in bringing it back on course.

No, they had to pass judgement because false prophecy was rife in those days. Just as it is today. If people made a false prophecy it proves they do not have the gift of prophecy. How can a true prophet make false prophecies?

Proverbs 30:5 says “Every word of God is flawless"

If prophecy can be false how can it be for the 'common good' (1 Cor 12:7)?

 

[NBB]

But these are not prophecies where God speaks actual words to a prophet who then passes those words on. They are 'sensed' - ie clairvoyance.

What? when the Holy spirit reveals something, you somehow need to know it, is in your interior most of the time, i don't think the prophets heard an audible voice of God when prophetizing.

 

[swordsman1]

What? when the Holy spirit reveals something, you somehow need to know it, is in your interior most of the time, i don't think the prophets heard an audible voice of God when prophetizing.

When prophecy is quoted in scripture it is along the lines of 'Thus said the Lord "<exact words here>" '. If the Lord did not say those exact words, the Bible is lying.

 

[NBB]

That is not prophecy. There was never any uncertainty in the prophets in the bible that God had spoken to them. And it was never feelings or thoughts popping into their heads, it was God speaking actual words to the prophet to pass on. Show me anywhere in scripture where prophecy was 'hesitant words that need checking and confirmation'.

If you never heard the spiritual voice of Jesus or the Holy spirit, You missing a lot and have some way to go. All this you say is just an opinion because you have not experienced this things, and to experience something from God we must believe a bit first. We are not lying here, you can be touched by God, and he can make us understand things, he is not mute! if you don't want this things, that is bad for you!

 

[NBB]

When prophecy is quoted in scripture it is along the lines of 'Thus said the Lord "<exact words here>" '. If the Lord did not say those exact words, the Bible is lying.

God can speak to you to your interior, an audible voice or something is not neccesary.

 

[NBB]

When prophecy is quoted in scripture it is along the lines of 'Thus said the Lord "<exact words here>" '. If the Lord did not say those exact words, the Bible is lying.

I say you have not experienced being filled with the Holy spirit, if you would, he can make you understand a lot of things, and that can be described as God speaking to us.

I recommend you open up a bit to spiritual things from God, tell the Holy spirit that you want to understand or something... for your own progress and sake, being filled with the Holy spirit is a very nice thing to happen to a christian, and of course i wish that to every christian!

 

[NBB]

A blessing to the church???!!! You're joking aren't you. Nothing could be further from the truth. What people call prophecy today is a great danger to the church.

Fuzzy feelings and thoughts popping into people's heads is not prophecy. And then to presumptuously declare them to be a 'word from the Lord' when it is no such thing is nothing less than false prophecy - a crime punishable by death in the Old Testament. And innocent Christians thinking it really is a message from God are coerced into making disastrous decisions which can, and often do, wreck their lives.

The Holy spirit is not close to you if you call hes sweet touches and voice, a 'fuzzy feeling'

 

[RDKirk]

The Holy Spirit teacher is promised to all those who keep the words of Christ. In the apostles day teachers were sent to teach those words. We need no teacher today because we have the words Christ wanted us to have. Men in the Church have added to that word their traditions and have caused great divisions in the body. They think they are apostles and teachers but they cant discern this truth . For this reason i seek guidance from God Himself, not any teacher.

If those men who claim to be teachers don't have the truth, what makes you think you are any less deluded than they are?

And why should we not think what you're saying here isn't as wrong as you claim them to be? Just because you're saying something different? There are a million ways to be wrong.

 

[W2L]

If those men who claim to be teachers don't have the truth, what makes you think you are any less deluded than they are?

And why should we not think what you're saying here isn't as wrong as you claim them to be? Just because you're saying something different? There are a million ways to be wrong.

Im not claiming to be an apostle or a prophet or teacher. Im just some lowly man asking why these modern apostles/'prophets/teachers are following divided denominations with man made traditions instead of teaching us the PURE truth. You can try to dodge the question but you cant. Just admit you have no answer please.