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I am a teacher. You can see my picture right there.But where are the true apostles and teachers? Why are they so silent? Can you point me to a real apostle?
No i wouldn't. What about satan deceiving many with lying signs and wonders?
I AM A REAL TEACHER! I mean, I'm real and I'm a teacher. That makes me a real teacher, doesn't it?Get real.
Shes right though. You have compkete faith in the devil to do that stuff here and now todayGet ahold of yourself, i just quoted scripture.
Did not ask you to address it
Just go and do as the lord jesus says to do
Obedience is the only measure of true belief.
For several decades we've followed the model of 'body ministry' as a biblical example for how 'church' is supposed to be done. And the fivefold ministry's job is to equip the saints to do the ministry work. Something I've heard you testify to, and a couple others on our side here also gave testimonies along the same lines, as have I. But the big nay sayer crowd here just seem quote their own theology as well as theologians and try to put down our Charismatic experience along with our personal testimonies of service. Service which often springs forth from a result of that experience. That does sadden me...for their sakes.This has been one of my main complaints in churches. The "pastor" does it all and then complains that no one else does anything.... Of course, many church members expect this of the pastor. Church has become a spectator sport instead of a vibrant, alive body of believers all operating in the spiritual gifts in order to build one another up in the love of Christ. It's so sad.
I try to help the churches all the time and others do as well. We usually are not always in the line light but rather despised and rejected of menI dont believe there are apostles today. That's why the church division is not being fixed. Over 2000 years of division and no apostles to fix it.. That's my point, the evidence does not show that apostles are at work in the church today.
No, this is refering to apostles after the resurrection. Interestingly the word “pastors” in the noun form is only seen once here in the New Testament. If we have so many pastors today and they seek to justify thier gift after Christ rose again then we see this verse shows they are for the church, just as apostles and prophets are. In Acts 13 we see Barnabas being called out and send as an apostle after the resurrection. Also read Acts 14:14The apostles in that verse are referring to the original apostles.
No, this is refering to apostles after the resurrection. Interestingly the word “pastors” in the noun form is only seen once here in the New Testament. If we have so many pastors today and they seek to justify thier gift after Christ rose again then we see this verse shows they are for the church, just as apostles and prophets are. In Acts 13 we see Barnabas being called out and send as an apostle after the resurrection. Also read Acts 14:14
For several decades we've followed the model of 'body ministry' as a biblical example for how 'church' is supposed to be done. And the fivefold ministry's job is to equip the saints to do the ministry work. Something I've heard you testify to, and a couple others on our side here also gave testimonies along the same lines, as have I. But the big nay sayer crowd here just seem quote their own theology as well as theologians and try to put down our Charismatic experience along with our personal testimonies of service. Service which often springs forth from a result of that experience. That does sadden me...for their sakes.
11 And his gifts were that some should be apostles, some prophets, some evangelists, some pastors and teachers, 12 to equip the saints for the work of ministry, for building up the body of Christ,
But, as you said, often it is the pastor doing most things. Sometimes because they're ruled unbiblically by the congregation and the pastor simply ends up being their paid for lackey. Then he just gets to do their jobs which they can't and won't even learn. Other pastors rule even above their biblical authorities. Authorities such as the 'elders' who are really supposed to be a 'pastor's' boss. In the past 40 years I seldom went to church to 'get anything', as much as I went to, 'give everything' I could to help others mature or be set free and be sanctified.
The New Testament type apostles would seem to be Paul, Barnabas, Silvanus, Timoteus and possibly Titus. None of these men as we read had seen Jesus entire life from Johns baptism to his resurrection to be eye witnesses. The apostles in that "group" who saw Jesus life from John till his resurrection had a specific calling to be witnesses of what they saw and of the life of Jesus. But similarly to the OT prophets they had a specific call and sent in a specific way. They do also extend into the meaning of the apostle and prophets and evangelist pastors and teachers of the New testament and their work is connected to that as well. But the apostles, prophets, evangelist, pastors and teachers of Ephesians 4:11, were for the perfecting of the saints, the work of the ministry, the edifying of the body of Christ. This body of Christ is the church as Paul already mentioned in Ephesians 1. The first apostles did not initially have this ministry as the later apostles did, even though they extended into it.There were indeed apostles appointed after the resurrection (Paul, Barnabas, James, and Matthias).
This "closed group" is your made up stuff here and not scriptural. Paul and Barnabas along with the other apostles before the resurrection such as Peter John etc...were not in a closed group. As I mentioned just previous, the work of the original apostles were sent as witnesses to what they had seen from John till Jesus resurrection, the work of the apostles and prophets , evangelist , pastors and teachers was after the resurrection and for the church and perfecting of the saints etc. Some have called these two groups big A apostles and little a apostles, but there is no need for that talk they are just send with different aspects to their ministry.But those plus the Eleven formed a closed group.
And the word 'apostle' in our bibles refers only to that group of men.
There cannot be further apostles since one of the qualifications for being an apostle was being an eye-witness of the resurrected Christ. And Paul said he was the last person to see Christ.
Notice the past tense in Eph 4:11 "And He gave some as apostles". Not 'gives', or 'will give'.
The same as in the previous chapter - "The mystery of Christ....has now been revealed to His holy apostles and prophets" (Eph 3:5). Not is being revealed, or will be revealed to ongoing apostles.
Apostles were authorized to be spokesmen for Christ (Luke 10:16, 2 Peter 3:2, 1 Cor. 14:37, 2 Cor 13:3, 1 Thes 2:13, 1 Thes 4:8, 15) and hence could even write scripture. Nobody today can speak authoritatively for Christ. Otherwise the canon would still be open.
The Church was not given the great commission to cast demons out of Christians, but to witness Jesus and the true Gospel to lost sinners, and to mature and train up those now saved by it!Pastors/ministers need to cast out demons and pray for the sick, so what is your point?
All pastors please stop doing this things because some people not believe they need to do it?
Any of us can pray to God for healing, but none of us are gifted to have that always happen, as God still decides how to heal, and many times the healing comes from physically death!Pastors/ministers need to cast out demons and pray for the sick, so what is your point?
All pastors please stop doing this things because some people not believe they need to do it?
Paul states to us the the Spirit of Jesus is the Holy Spirit Himself, so all saved are indwelt by the Holy Spirit Himself!I appreciate your "don't know" honesty W2L. So let me just start by saying I agree with the division in a family over this "baptism" which Jesus is talking about in Luke. And I don't consider it as 'watered down'. Why? Because I experienced it myself. I was born and raised as a Catholic....not as a Christian. And when I got radically saved and came home to tell my family that they weren't saved either...it didn't fly so well....other than the sparks of a sword fight, that is. I learned later that mom really was saved (during her 12 year old confirmation class, by a nun), even though she never received the baptism from the Holy Spirit until the day she died.
Now, as to you thinking Luke is speaking of the 'baptism of the Spirit', look at the tense of this baptism which Jesus is talking about. This baptism is in His FUTURE not in His PAST.
LUK 12:50 I have a baptism to be baptized with; and how I am constrained until it is accomplished!
Jesus was water baptized and then Spirit baptized in Chapter 3, so neither can be 'the baptism' which Jesus was stressing with....the 'one baptism' which divides saved from unsaved...a point which we both agree upon. This is the baptism of death on the cross which Jesus was wrestling with here, and also in the Garden at Gethsemane. And it is the 'death of Jesus' which is the ONLY BAPTISM that gives all Christians the very same 'born again' and saved holy spirit. And it is this spirit in us, which is just the same as the spirit which was in Jesus when he was born of Mary. And that spirit is the holy spirit of Christ. Not the Holy Spirit of God. That is what makes us ALL one spirit as the body of Christ.
1CO 6:17 But he who is united to the Lord becomes one spirit with him.
Notice that the 'inconsistent' translators correctly did not capitalize spirit here, because it is the spirit of Christ in us which is the new creation of our unsaved spirit.
Notice also that Eph 4 says nothing about the unity of the Church or of Doctrine. Neither does it say that we have to OBTAIN the unity of the spirit, but MAINTAIN it.
EPH 4:3 eager to maintain the unity of the Spirit in the bond of peace.
The biggest problem with understanding this verse in the way I"m sharing is this. As I've shared many time here on CF translators capitalized spirit or holy spirit 52 times when it never should have been. Capitalization is not determined in the Greek grammatically like English. It is added according to the 'theology' and imagination of those translating. And, back to the point of this thread, those early translators never had the baptism of the Spirit to even be able to correctly relate to correct theology confirmed with experience. The spirit of Christ in us all is the only spirit that makes all of us the many membered body of Christ.
That is not a disputed fact. It certainly isn't water baptism because Paul himself wished he'd never water baptized anyone, so how could that be the baptism for "unity of the spirit" (with capitalization corrected) which makes the body of Christ ONE. And not just ONE but also divided from the unsaved spirit of those in the world.
Amen, as one gifted by God to prophesy means to have the enabling to proclaim the scriptures in power and in truth, and to bring out and apply the prophetic scriptures to us today, not to give forth any new ones!Revelation 19:10 (KJV) And I fell at his feet to worship him. And he said unto me, See thou do it not: I am thy fellowservant, and of thy brethren that have the testimony of Jesus: worship God: for the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy.
When we as believers testify our belief in Jesus, that the spirit of prophecy as it exists today. As mentioned all prophecy (predictive) has been sealed up in scripture already.
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