The question cessationists must answer.

[YeshuaFan]

Wrong, WOF has not been misrepresented. YOu yourself admit that you dont know what they teach so how would you know? I have listened to WOF preachers, i know what they teach. Its that teaching that made me stop listening to them. It didnt follow the truth of scripture.

Just look in Different Gospel pr Christianity in Crisis, as the WoF teachers spew heresy after heresy from their lips, and yet claim the Holy Spirit guiding them!

 

[Anto9us]

"Apostleship" was not listed in the gifts which were subject to failing, ceasing, or passing away.

The only three gifts subject to that are tongues, prophecy and Word of Knowledge.

To me, a Cessationist is one who claims that the CONDITION which Paul referred to as teleios, the perfect, complete, mature HAS ALREADY OCCURRED.

A Continuationist says No, it is still to come.

 

[Deborah D]

Those statements I gave from them are all to be found in the book, Different Gospel, by DR McConnel, and he was graduate of Oral Roberts, and proves that pretty much of all Wof theology came form a Metaphysical false teacher EM Kenyon, and not of/from God!

Then give direct quotes, not just your take on what they've said!!!! Please!

 

[W2L]

Oh, wow, that's deflection, but not from me!

Are you Roman Catholic?

Im not going to answer any of your questions till you answer mine.

 

[Hillsage]

im in no mood to be disagreeable - i want all to be saved and come to a true knowledge of salvation in Jesus.

and again I say
Salvation is absolutely the first priority, in my book. Water baptism is the next step I then encourage for pursuing Christian maturity. Then, the next step is the baptism of supernatural 'power from the Holy Spirit' which is administered by 'Jesus the baptizer'. Can the last two baptisms be reversed experientially? Yes! That was actually my testimonial experience. I got born again, 6 months later received the baptism of the Spirit with the evidence of 'speaking in prayer tongues from my spirit'. A few months later our home group was studying 'water' baptism' and the Spirit convicted me that being sprinkled, as an unbelieving infant, wasn't His idea. Four others in the home group agreed, when I shared what I believed God was telling me. All 5 of us were then water baptized in the Arkansas river by our home group leader.

so it not in disagreement i add this just passion lol- dont fall for tongues being a lesser gift -it is by no means so.

You misunderstood me. I, in no way consider the prayer tongues as being inferior. THAT was just the line that the 'have nots' have used against me many times in the past, to say we were 'pretty much dumb as well as wrong' with our Charismatic theology. But now they don't like being in the 'idiotes' group as Paul declares. And who can blame them?

some times when in prayer for others ..in tongues.. i increasingly understand what it is i'm saying in prayer though i'm not speaking in English .

That is a biblical principle IMO. And it is one I have experienced even as you just shared.

1CO 14:13 Therefore, he who speaks in a tongue should pray for the power to interpret. 14 For if I pray in a tongue, my spirit prays but my mind is unfruitful.

IOW, I too have 'spoke in a tongue', as verse 13 says. And it was my 'spirit's prayer tongue' I was praying in, even as verse 14 confirms. And there's been times when I've been in those prayer situations, when I do feel like my spirit is praying perfectly, what my "unfruitful mind" doesn't understand. But then I start getting 'revelation'....or should I say "interpretation"....as to what I've been praying in tongues from my spirit. And it is at that time that I can ALSO pray WITH THE UNDERSTANDING in English. Even as the next verse confirms;

15 What am I to do? I will pray with the spirit AND I will pray with the mind also; I will sing with the spirit and I will sing with the mind also.

So you also, testify Alithis to what I'm simply saying is a scriptural principle, even as I've tried to share above.

oops i digress already haha .. my point is don't devalue ANY gift or over value any gift
for they are the attributes of the SAME HOLY Spirit of the loving GOD . he is not lesser and greater ... see the point

My only 'digression' at this point may be this. I don't believe anyone HAS any of the 'gifts of the Holy Spirit'. But if they've opened their lives up to walking in the Holy Spirit's baptism experience for their spirit, then they are qualified priests to be channels for the Holy Spirit to give His giftings/"manifestations"...TO...whoever it is that we are ministering to. IOW, if He is wanting someone healed, that is not my gift, it is His gift and it is given to whoever I'm praying for, as He wills. The only 'gift' I truly have is 'access to the Holy Spirit' Himself. If any of the 'gifts of the Spirit' were truly MINE/ours, I/we could go to the hospital and empty it out as I/we WILL. This is an argument that the 'have nots' hit us with all the time. AND THEY ARE RIGHT!!!! IMO. Nobody who is Spirit baptized and speaks in tongues can do that because the 'Holy Spirit gift of healing' was never 'our gift' to begin with.

 

[W2L]

"Apostleship" was not listed in the gifts which were subject to failing, ceasing, or passing away.

The only three gifts subject to that are tongues, prophecy and Word of Knowledge.

To me, a Cessationist is one who claims that the CONDITION which Paul referred to as teleios, the perfect, complete, mature HAS ALREADY OCCURRED.

A Continuationist says No, it is still to come.

Ok, Lets replace apostle with prophets and teachers. Which church has the real prophets and teachers? It cant be all of them because they all teach different doctrines and do not agree with each other.

 

[Deborah D]

Im not going to answer any of your questions till you answer mine.

The reason that I asked if you're Roman Catholic is the argument you gave about the different denominations is exactly what they've said to me in debates.

 

[AbbaLove]

NBB, There will always be mockers who ridicule what God does. What is sad is that I don't think they will be mocking on Judgment Day.

Think you meant to imply that they are not ridiculing what God does, but rather what they assume the enemy is influencing; especially when it comes to speaking in an [unknown] heavenly tongue (prayer and/or praise--speaking and singing) ...

1 Corinthians 14:2
2 For he that speaketh in an unknown tongue speaketh not unto men, but unto God: for no man understandeth him; howbeit in the spirit he speaketh mysteries. (KJV)
2 for he who is speaking in an unknown tongue -- to men he doth not speak, but to God, for no one doth hearken, and in spirit he doth speak secrets; (YLT)

1 Corinthians 14:15
15 What is it then? I will pray with the spirit, and I will pray with the understanding also: I will sing with the spirit, and I will sing with the understanding also. (KJV)
15 What then is it? I will pray with the spirit, and I will pray also with the understanding; I will sing psalms with the spirit, and I will sing psalms also with the understanding; (YLT)
​

 

[W2L]

Just look in Different Gospel pr Christianity in Crisis, as the WoF teachers spew heresy after heresy from their lips, and yet claim the Holy Spirit guiding them!

I could post many videos showing these "teachers" for what they are, but i wont, im more interested in hearing answers to my questions.

 

[Deborah D]

​

Think you meant to imply that they are not ridiculing what God does, but rather what they assume the enemy is influencing; especially when it comes to speaking in an [unknown] heavenly tongue (prayer and/or praise--speaking and singing) ...

1 Corinthians 14:2
2 For he that speaketh in an unknown tongue speaketh not unto men, but unto God: for no man understandeth him; howbeit in the spirit he speaketh mysteries. (KJV)
2 for he who is speaking in an unknown tongue -- to men he doth not speak, but to God, for no one doth hearken, and in spirit he doth speak secrets; (YLT)

1 Corinthians 14:15
15 What is it then? I will pray with the spirit, and I will pray with the understanding also: I will sing with the spirit, and I will sing with the understanding also. (KJV)
15 What then is it? I will pray with the spirit, and I will pray also with the understanding; I will sing psalms with the spirit, and I will sing psalms also with the understanding; (YLT)
​

Yes, true! But in my mind they end up mocking God like the Pharisees who mocked Jesus.

 

[W2L]

The reason that I asked if you're Roman Catholic is the argument you gave about the different denominations is exactly what they've said to me in debates.

No im not RC. Never would i join RC.

 

[YeshuaFan]

On and on you go! Where's the proof???

Christianity in Crisis, Different Gospel , Seduction of Christianity et all!

 

[YeshuaFan]

More deflection from deborah.

@Deborah D Where are the true apostles today? If they are found in every Church then why do we have calvinism, Lutheranism, Catholicism, Protestantism, Pentecostalism, MJ, EO, Baptists, Anglicans, Methodists, and so on?

true Apostles had sign gifts and were inspired to give forth scripture, none qualified today!

 

[YeshuaFan]

Yes, true! But in my mind they end of mocking God like the Pharisees who mocked Jesus.

Those against WoF theology are actually defending the true theology of God as found in the scriptures alone!

 

[W2L]

true Apostles had sign gifts and were inspired to give forth scripture, none qualified today!

I agree.

 

[Hillsage]

Hillsage, I wouldn't rule out that God would give Roman Catholics the gifts of the Spirit, but some Catholic doctrines are VERY unscriptural. In order for someone to join the Roman Catholic Church, they have to agree with the Catechism of the Catholic Church. This past month, I've spent time reading some of this catechism and other Catholic documents, and I've been shocked at just how unscriptural some their dogma is. I know this is not a thread for addressing this, and I don't mean to sound like I hate Catholics. I don't! But it seems that you may be promoting Roman Catholicism, and I'm concerned about this.

It has been said; "Everyone is someone else's heretic." and I pretty much agree with that statement. I cut my teeth on the RCC catechism. I was born, raised, wed, and divorced as a RCC....then, 4 years after quitting "the Church" I got radically SAVED. My first intellectual "spiritual" pursuit was to go back and find out what was and what wasn't truth....as far as I was concerned in that church. IOW I fully understand your observations and understand your concerns. But I also know that all churches have some ding dong 'statement of faith' you're supposed to believe to be a 'good member'. And I don't think I've ever read one that was 'word for word just like' any other church or denomination. I am of the firm belief that the more these people write, the more 'truly deep/mature Christian people' they exclude, based upon 'their' particular group's level of growth and theological understanding of Christianity.

An elder and I went to a conference in Dallas years ago. Pastor Jack Taylor was one of the 'presenting speakers'. At one point he said; "When man invented 'theology', which is the "study of God" I am almost certain that GOD looked down from heaven and said to the Holy Spirit; "OH BOY, I BET THIS IS GONNA BE GOOD." IOW.....NOT!!!! Centuries of carnal minded theologians, led by the 'spirit of religion' from the devil, have simply divided the church to the point of looking like the divisive splintered thing it has become.

 

[W2L]

It has been said; "Everyone is someone else's heretic." and I pretty much agree with that statement. I cut my teeth on the RCC catechism. I was born, raised, wed, and divorced as a RCC....then, 4 years after quitting "the Church" I got radically SAVED. My first intellectual "spiritual" pursuit was to go back and find out what was and what wasn't truth....as far as I was concerned in that church. IOW I fully understand your observations and understand your concerns. But I also know that all churches have some ding dong 'statement of faith' you're supposed to believe to be a 'good member'. And I don't think I've ever read one that was 'word for word just like' any other church or denomination. I am of the firm belief that the more these people write, the more 'truly deep/mature Christian people' they exclude, based upon 'their' particular group's level of growth and theological understanding of Christianity.

An elder and I went to a conference in Dallas years ago. Pastor Jack Taylor was one of the 'presenting speakers'. At one point he said; "When man invented 'theology', which is the "study of God" I am almost certain that GOD looked down from heaven and said to the Holy Spirit; "OH BOY, I BET THIS IS GONNA BE GOOD." IOW.....NOT!!!! Centuries of carnal minded theologians, led by the 'spirit of religion' from the devil, have simply divided the church to the point of looking like the divisive splintered thing it has become.

Thats why i keep things simple.

 

[Deborah D]

Just look in Different Gospel pr Christianity in Crisis, as the WoF teachers spew heresy after heresy from their lips, and yet claim the Holy Spirit guiding them!

Yeah, well, you're spewing misinformation about their "heresy," so how are you any better than they?

 

[W2L]

Yeah, well, you're spewing misinformation about their "heresy," so how are you any better than they?

Which misinformation is that?

 

[Deborah D]

It has been said; "Everyone is someone else's heretic." and I pretty much agree with that statement. I cut my teeth on the RCC catechism. I was born, raised, wed, and divorced as a RCC....then, 4 years after quitting "the Church" I got radically SAVED. My first intellectual "spiritual" pursuit was to go back and find out what was and what wasn't truth....as far as I was concerned in that church. IOW I fully understand your observations and understand your concerns. But I also know that all churches have some ding dong 'statement of faith' you're supposed to believe to be a 'good member'. And I don't think I've ever read one that was 'word for word just like' any other church or denomination. I am of the firm belief that the more these people write, the more 'truly deep/mature Christian people' they exclude, based upon 'their' particular group's level of growth and theological understanding of Christianity.

An elder and I went to a conference in Dallas years ago. Pastor Jack Taylor was one of the 'presenting speakers'. At one point he said; "When man invented 'theology', which is the "study of God" I am almost certain that GOD looked down from heaven and said to the Holy Spirit; "OH BOY, I BET THIS IS GONNA BE GOOD." IOW.....NOT!!!! Centuries of carnal minded theologians, led by the 'spirit of religion' from the devil, have simply divided the church to the point of looking like the divisive splintered thing it has become.

@Hillsage, I pretty much agree with what you're saying here. What I've tried to explain to diehard Roman Catholics is that for the most part, the Protestant denominations agree on the basics of Bible doctrine. We differ mostly on the more peripheral doctrines like how to baptize, etc. (I would say that the disagreement about cessationism is a big one, though.) On the other hand, some RCC doctrines and dogmas are totally unscriptural. They're based on some supposed oral tradition handed down by the original apostles that fall outside what the Bible teaches. I'm sure that I'm telling you what you already know, and I mean no offense to you in what I'm saying.