The Purpose of the Rapture.

[Timtofly]

Not sure why your asking this question… is it a trick question?

Many saints bodies now lay dissolved in the graves and the period has been some 1993 years but a time will come when they will receive there heavenly eternal tabernacle by way of rapture possibly in the near future

I think you are hung up on theology, or the scientific understanding of the word.

When a marriage is dissolved, does it take thousands of years? It is not a trick question. Should you not understand God's Word before jumping to man's theological nonsense?

That building not made by human hands, eternal in the heavens, was immediately available to the thief on the Cross, that day His soul left Adam's dead flesh. The Greek word means an immediate change, not one put off for thousands of years.

If you go by the scientific use of the word, do those cremated get their new body sooner than those embalmed in a casket? That is a trick question to show how to interpret that verse incorrectly.

No one is currently asleep in Christ. Is the word sleep found in Revelation 7? Jesus used the word sleep when referring to Lazarus, who was dead, yes. That was prior to the Cross. Paul used the word, sleep yes, because that generation understood terms prior to the Cross. Should the church 1900 years later, still use pre-Cross human understanding, No!

The only dead in Christ according to biblical terminology are those still in Adam's dead corruptible flesh. Because to be alive in Christ means we have on that building not made by hands, eternal in the heavens. The only resurrection out of death was for the OT redeemed resurrected out of Abraham's bosom at the Cross. They have been in Paradise in incorruptible permanent physical bodies since they ascended with Jesus on Sunday morning.

Paul was pointing out in 2 Corinthians 5, that when the soul dissolved the union with Adam's dead corruptible flesh, the soul immediately took up the union with God's permanent incorruptible physical body. At the Second Coming, the 6th Seal, the church was already glorified in the 5th Seal. Jesus brought with Him those in Paradise to meet those rising from the earth, and all put on white robes in the sight of the entire earth, that was then baptized in fire, and Jesus continued to the Mount of Olives per Zechariah 14.

For all we know, the 4th, 5th, and 6th Seal could all happen within an hour. John slows down the camera speed, to show us more detail, than the actual time it would take for everything to happen.

Then chapter 7 tells us about the time between the 6th and 7th Seal, while also going back to the time of the Cross until the Second Coming, what has taken place in heaven. Serving God day and night in the temple has been ongoing since the Cross. It will continue for the next 1,000 year period. The Second Coming did not change that fact. The Second Coming ended the church being on earth, as the fulness of the Gentiles was complete. Now we see Israel restored and the rest of humanity redeemed out of Adam's dead corruptible flesh as Millennium Kingdom firstfruits. The church remains in Paradise. Jesus reigns as King on earth while Satan is bound for a thousand years. The thousand years does not limit the authority of Jesus. The thousand years is the judgment of Satan in the pit.

The Second Coming does not limit the restoration of the church to a resurrection from death. The Resurrection from death, was completed at the Cross. Jesus pointed out that after the Cross, none of His would taste death. Jesus did not call Stephen out of the grave. Jesus called Stephen out of Adam's dead physical body. The only death those in Christ face is this human mortal body. The only resurrection is out of this dead union of soul and body.

 

[dfw69]

I

When a marriage is dissolved, does it take thousands of years? It is not a trick question. Should you not understand God's Word before jumping to man's theological nonsense?

I knew you were leading me on …typical…

we are not in a marriage that ends at one’s death for the promises He made with us exist until the completion and our death does not dissolve the covenant He made with us …

That building not made by human hands, eternal in the heavens, was immediately available to the thief on the Cross,

Another assumption.. you misunderstood what the text is saying

that day His soul left Adam's dead flesh. The Greek word means an immediate change, not one put off for thousands of years.

It’s an immediate change when it takes place at the rapture not at death

If you go by the scientific use of the word, do those cremated get their new body sooner than those embalmed in a casket? That is a trick question to show how to interpret that verse incorrectly.

They both get their new bodies at the rapture it’s not hard for god to resurrect a cremated man or dust into a mortal then change it so that it’s eternal … nor less difficult for Him to change an embalm … this is a silly question

No one is currently asleep in Christ.

The bodies that lay in the graves are asleep and at rest so to speak … your going against Paul and he’s more qualified than you are

Is the word sleep found in Revelation 7? Jesus used the word sleep when referring to Lazarus, who was dead, yes.

Truth

That was prior to the Cross.

Lol ..so what

Paul used the word, sleep yes, because that generation understood terms prior to the Cross. Should the church 1900 years later, still use pre-Cross human understanding, No!

If those in Christ are still dead and their bodies were put down in whatever manor and their resurrection has not yet taken place because Jesus has yet to appear in the sky to sound off 2 trumpets then saying asleep is fine to say because Paul carried over the understanding of what asleep means to the church

This is a weak argument… Timtofly

The only dead in Christ according to biblical terminology are those still in Adam's dead corruptible flesh.

Symbolism? Oh boy .. here we go … lol you go on and believe this nonsense … but asleep mean dead in the graves …go try to fool someone else with that nonsense

Because to be alive in Christ means we have on that building not made by hands, eternal in the heavens.

Nope your missing the mark

The only resurrection out of death was for the OT redeemed resurrected out of Abraham's bosom at the Cross.

Sure and Paul’s rapture when Jesus sounds the 2 trumpets to awake the dead and change the living is just a metaphor for whatever you guys want it to be to purposely deceive right? … come on man what are you doing?

They have been in Paradise in incorruptible permanent physical bodies since they ascended with Jesus on Sunday morning.

We really don’t know if they received immortal bodies such as Jesus did or if they were resurrected like lazareth was and are now in heaven awaiting a return with Him

Paul was pointing out in 2 Corinthians 5, that when the soul dissolved the union with Adam's dead corruptible flesh, the soul immediately took up the union with God's permanent incorruptible physical body.

And with this type of thinking you are taking away from Gods word

At the Second Coming, the 6th Seal, the church was already glorified in the 5th Seal. Jesus brought with Him those in Paradise to meet those rising from the earth, and all put on white robes in the sight of the entire earth, that was then baptized in fire, and Jesus continued to the Mount of Olives per Zechariah 14.

I disagree

For all we know, the 4th, 5th, and 6th Seal could all happen within an hour. John slows down the camera speed, to show us more detail, than the actual time it would take for everything to happen.

I disagree

Then chapter 7 tells us about the time between the 6th and 7th Seal, while also going back to the time of the Cross until the Second Coming, what has taken place in heaven. Serving God day and night in the temple has been ongoing since the Cross. It will continue for the next 1,000 year period. The Second Coming did not change that fact. The Second Coming ended the church being on earth, as the fulness of the Gentiles was complete. Now we see Israel restored and the rest of humanity redeemed out of Adam's dead corruptible flesh as Millennium Kingdom firstfruits. The church remains in Paradise. Jesus reigns as King on earth while Satan is bound for a thousand years. The thousand years does not limit the authority of Jesus. The thousand years is the judgment of Satan in the pit.

The Second Coming does not limit the restoration of the church to a resurrection from death. The Resurrection from death, was completed at the Cross. Jesus pointed out that after the Cross, none of His would taste death. Jesus did not call Stephen out of the grave. Jesus called Stephen out of Adam's dead physical body. The only death those in Christ face is this human mortal body. The only resurrection is out of this dead union of soul and body.

Yea I’m done entertaining such mutilation of Gods word

Peace

 

[dfw69]

I think you are hung up on theology, or the scientific understanding of the word.

When a marriage is dissolved, does it take thousands of years? It is not a trick question. Should you not understand God's Word before jumping to man's theological nonsense?

That building not made by human hands, eternal in the heavens, was immediately available to the thief on the Cross, that day His soul left Adam's dead flesh. The Greek word means an immediate change, not one put off for thousands of years.

If you go by the scientific use of the word, do those cremated get their new body sooner than those embalmed in a casket? That is a trick question to show how to interpret that verse incorrectly.

No one is currently asleep in Christ. Is the word sleep found in Revelation 7? Jesus used the word sleep when referring to Lazarus, who was dead, yes. That was prior to the Cross. Paul used the word, sleep yes, because that generation understood terms prior to the Cross. Should the church 1900 years later, still use pre-Cross human understanding, No!

The only dead in Christ according to biblical terminology are those still in Adam's dead corruptible flesh. Because to be alive in Christ means we have on that building not made by hands, eternal in the heavens. The only resurrection out of death was for the OT redeemed resurrected out of Abraham's bosom at the Cross. They have been in Paradise in incorruptible permanent physical bodies since they ascended with Jesus on Sunday morning.

Paul was pointing out in 2 Corinthians 5, that when the soul dissolved the union with Adam's dead corruptible flesh, the soul immediately took up the union with God's permanent incorruptible physical body. At the Second Coming, the 6th Seal, the church was already glorified in the 5th Seal. Jesus brought with Him those in Paradise to meet those rising from the earth, and all put on white robes in the sight of the entire earth, that was then baptized in fire, and Jesus continued to the Mount of Olives per Zechariah 14.

For all we know, the 4th, 5th, and 6th Seal could all happen within an hour. John slows down the camera speed, to show us more detail, than the actual time it would take for everything to happen.

Then chapter 7 tells us about the time between the 6th and 7th Seal, while also going back to the time of the Cross until the Second Coming, what has taken place in heaven. Serving God day and night in the temple has been ongoing since the Cross. It will continue for the next 1,000 year period. The Second Coming did not change that fact. The Second Coming ended the church being on earth, as the fulness of the Gentiles was complete. Now we see Israel restored and the rest of humanity redeemed out of Adam's dead corruptible flesh as Millennium Kingdom firstfruits. The church remains in Paradise. Jesus reigns as King on earth while Satan is bound for a thousand years. The thousand years does not limit the authority of Jesus. The thousand years is the judgment of Satan in the pit.

The Second Coming does not limit the restoration of the church to a resurrection from death. The Resurrection from death, was completed at the Cross. Jesus pointed out that after the Cross, none of His would taste death. Jesus did not call Stephen out of the grave. Jesus called Stephen out of Adam's dead physical body. The only death those in Christ face is this human mortal body. The only resurrection is out of this dead union of soul and body.

1 Corinthians 15:12 But if it is preached that Christ has been raised from the dead, how can some of you say that there is no resurrection of the dead? 13 If there is no resurrection of the dead, then not even Christ has been raised.14 And if Christ has not been raised,our preaching is useless and so is your faith. 15 More than that, we are then found to be false witnesses about God, for we have testified about God that he raised Christ from the dead. But he did not raise him if in fact the dead are not raised. 16 For if the dead are not raised, then Christ has not been raised either. 17 And if Christ has not been raised, your faith is futile; you are still in your sins.18 Then those also who have fallen asleep in Christ are lost. 19 If only for this life we have hope in Christ, we are of all people most to be pitied.

20 But Christ has indeed been raised from the dead, the firstfruits of those who have fallen asleep. 21 For since death came through a man, the resurrection of the dead comes also through a man. 22 For as in Adam all die, so in Christ all will be made alive.23 But each in turn: Christ, the firstfruits; then, when he comes,those who belong to him. 24 Then the end will come, when he hands over the kingdom to God the Father after he has destroyed all dominion, authority and power. 25 For he must reign until he has put all his enemies under his feet. 26 The last enemy to be destroyed is death. 27 For he “has put everything under his feet.”Now when it says that “everything” has been put under him, it is clear that this does not include God himself, who put everything under Christ.28 When he has done this, then the Son himself will be made subject to him who put everything under him,so that God may be all in all.

35 But someone will ask, “How are the dead raised? With what kind of body will they come?” 36 How foolish! What you sow does not come to life unless it dies. 37 When you sow, you do not plant the body that will be, but just a seed, perhaps of wheat or of something else. 38 But God gives it a body as he has determined, and to each kind of seed he gives its own body. 39 Not all flesh is the same: People have one kind of flesh, animals have another, birds another and fish another. 40 There are also heavenly bodies and there are earthly bodies; but the splendor of the heavenly bodies is one kind, and the splendor of the earthly bodies is another. 41 The sun has one kind of splendor, the moon another and the stars another; and star differs from star in splendor.

42 So will it be with the resurrection of the dead. The body that is sown is perishable, it is raised imperishable;43 it is sown in dishonor, it is raised in glory; it is sown in weakness, it is raised in power; 44 it is sown a natural body, it is raised a spiritual body.

If there is a natural body, there is also a spiritual body. 45 So it is written: “The first man Adam became a living being”; the last Adam, a life-giving spirit. 46 The spiritual did not come first, but the natural, and after that the spiritual. 47 The first man was of the dust of the earth; the second man is of heaven. 48 As was the earthly man, so are those who are of the earth; and as is the heavenly man, so also are those who are of heaven. 49 And just as we have borne the image of the earthly man, so shall we bear the image of the heavenly man.

 

[Timtofly]

1 Corinthians 15:12 But if it is preached that Christ has been raised from the dead, how can some of you say that there is no resurrection of the dead? 13 If there is no resurrection of the dead, then not even Christ has been raised.14 And if Christ has not been raised,our preaching is useless and so is your faith. 15 More than that, we are then found to be false witnesses about God, for we have testified about God that he raised Christ from the dead. But he did not raise him if in fact the dead are not raised. 16 For if the dead are not raised, then Christ has not been raised either. 17 And if Christ has not been raised, your faith is futile; you are still in your sins.18 Then those also who have fallen asleep in Christ are lost. 19 If only for this life we have hope in Christ, we are of all people most to be pitied.

20 But Christ has indeed been raised from the dead, the firstfruits of those who have fallen asleep. 21 For since death came through a man, the resurrection of the dead comes also through a man. 22 For as in Adam all die, so in Christ all will be made alive.23 But each in turn: Christ, the firstfruits; then, when he comes,those who belong to him. 24 Then the end will come, when he hands over the kingdom to God the Father after he has destroyed all dominion, authority and power. 25 For he must reign until he has put all his enemies under his feet. 26 The last enemy to be destroyed is death. 27 For he “has put everything under his feet.”Now when it says that “everything” has been put under him, it is clear that this does not include God himself, who put everything under Christ.28 When he has done this, then the Son himself will be made subject to him who put everything under him,so that God may be all in all.

35 But someone will ask, “How are the dead raised? With what kind of body will they come?” 36 How foolish! What you sow does not come to life unless it dies. 37 When you sow, you do not plant the body that will be, but just a seed, perhaps of wheat or of something else. 38 But God gives it a body as he has determined, and to each kind of seed he gives its own body. 39 Not all flesh is the same: People have one kind of flesh, animals have another, birds another and fish another. 40 There are also heavenly bodies and there are earthly bodies; but the splendor of the heavenly bodies is one kind, and the splendor of the earthly bodies is another. 41 The sun has one kind of splendor, the moon another and the stars another; and star differs from star in splendor.

42 So will it be with the resurrection of the dead. The body that is sown is perishable, it is raised imperishable;43 it is sown in dishonor, it is raised in glory; it is sown in weakness, it is raised in power; 44 it is sown a natural body, it is raised a spiritual body.

If there is a natural body, there is also a spiritual body. 45 So it is written: “The first man Adam became a living being”; the last Adam, a life-giving spirit. 46 The spiritual did not come first, but the natural, and after that the spiritual. 47 The first man was of the dust of the earth; the second man is of heaven. 48 As was the earthly man, so are those who are of the earth; and as is the heavenly man, so also are those who are of heaven. 49 And just as we have borne the image of the earthly man, so shall we bear the image of the heavenly man.

Genesis 5:1-3

"This is the book of the generations of Adam. In the day that God created man, in the likeness of God made he him; Male and female created he them; and blessed them, and called their name Adam, in the day when they were created. And Adam lived an hundred and thirty years, and begat a son in his own likeness, and after his image; and called his name Seth:"

 

[dfw69]

Genesis 5:1-3

"This is the book of the generations of Adam. In the day that God created man, in the likeness of God made he him; Male and female created he them; and blessed them, and called their name Adam, in the day when they were created. And Adam lived an hundred and thirty years, and begat a son in his own likeness, and after his image; and called his name Seth:"

So what it’s still does not take away from the fact that Jesus is the second Adam who gives us eternal life through the coming resurrection to receive spiritual bodies

 

[Timtofly]

So what it’s still does not take away from the fact that Jesus is the second Adam who gives us eternal life through the coming resurrection to receive spiritual bodies

The point is we are in Adam's image, not God's image.

Those currently in Paradise are in God's image with a physical body, like Adam was before he disobeyed God, and physically died. Adam was given a corruptible temporal body of death. In Paradise, they have a permanent incorruptible physical body like Jesus has. That was the firstfruits resurrection at the Cross, and they all ascended to Paradise in that permanent incorruptible physical body.

The reason Abraham's bosom was emptied, a resting place for the soul, is because since the Cross, that permanent incorruptible physical body from God has been available. They have been waiving palm branches and serving God day and night in that heavenly temple for over 1993 years.

The rapture gives us, any alive and remain on the earth, that permanent incorruptible physical body, at the Second Coming.

 

[dfw69]

The point is we are in Adam's image, not God's image.

Then you missed the teachings of Paul which says just as we now bear the image of the first Adam we will also bear the image of the second Adam from heaven

Those currently in Paradise are in God's image with a physical body, like Adam was before he disobeyed God, and physically died. Adam was given a corruptible temporal body of death. In Paradise, they have a permanent incorruptible physical body like Jesus has.

Wrong again Jesus was resurrected with and incorruptible body and glorified to become the child of God and now sits at Gods right hand

Jesus was the first to put on and receive a heavenly body over His earthly body so that He is both a son of David and a son of God

That was the firstfruits resurrection at the Cross, and they all ascended to Paradise in that permanent incorruptible physical body.

your teaching that new body from heaven is not made in the image of God yet the first Adam was made in the image of god but it was according to the flesh for dust was made flesh and the spirit breathed into it and it lived but the tree of life sustained the flesh survival

The new Adam body is eternal also made in the image of God but through His Son.. Its an eternal heavenly body for Spirit gives birth to Spiritual beings making it possible to become the children of God.

The reason Abraham's bosom was emptied, a resting place for the soul, is because since the Cross, that permanent incorruptible physical body from God has been available. They have been waiving palm branches and serving God day and night in that heavenly temple for over 1993 years.

It’s possible the firstfruits may have received a body like Jesus did at His resurrection since the sacrifice was completed for them idk

But I know we too will be the completion of that transformation at the rapture which does not take place at His second coming but before it

The rapture gives us, any alive and remain on the earth, that permanent incorruptible physical body, at the Second Coming.

Not at the second coming but before it

So you believe that Adam was like god incorruptible yet flesh before he fell and death corrupted his body ?

The only difference between Adam body and Christ body is death? One dies one no longer dies? So an incorruptible body is eternal because death has no power over it?

I disagree.. why? Because Jesus is the Son of God through the Holy Spirit giving Him a body of flesh through Mariam ..so just as much a part of God and just as much a part of Man …

Through His manhood he saved man (flesh) from death by becoming our Passover

His resurrection from death gives Him the power over the graves … so He is able to resurrect man

But He is from heaven and a citizen of heaven and a relative of God having received all power and all glory and all authority over Gods creation

Since we are heirs according to the promise we too will bear the image of God to become like God by inheriting it from our Father

We will bear the heavenly image of the Son of God to become Gods children

When the flesh received the Spirit in the past they were able performed miracles through the Holy Spirit as the sons of God but when one becomes born again by the Spirit they will become like the children of God

 

[Timtofly]

So you believe that Adam was like god incorruptible yet flesh before he fell and death corrupted his body ?

your teaching that new body from heaven is not made in the image of God yet the first Adam was made in the image of god but it was according to the flesh for dust

Which is it?

These two quotes do not say the same thing.

No verse states a "new" body from heaven. The only body from heaven was the one created on the 6th day. That is not new. That is the only image of God ever.

Adam disobeyed God, and became death. Jesus obeyed God to restore God's original life, the image of God.

There is not some third body type that Adam started with, different than what Jesus was born with. Jesus was not born into death. Jesus was born with a permanent incorruptible physical body like Adam was originally created with. Jesus was human yet without Adam's sin and death body. Jesus was the begotten son of God in God's image. Adam was the created son of God in God's image, not begotten. Same body type, not two different body types. The other body type is after Adam disobeyed, and was given a temporal corruptible physical body of death. Seth and all from Adam had that second body type, except Jesus. Jesus was not born into Adam's dead corruptible image. Jesus was the only begotten son of God in God's image, not Adam's.

"For the love of Christ constraineth us; because we thus judge, that if one died for all, then were all dead: And that he died for all, that they which live should not henceforth live unto themselves, but unto him which died for them, and rose again. For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him."

When was Jesus made sin for us? On the Cross, or at birth? When did Jesus become the begotten son of God, after the resurrection or at conception?

You are missing the point that Adam and Eve did indeed physically die. Instead of the permanent incorruptible physical body they once had, they were now in a temporal corruptible physical body, the body of death. Their body did not change. Their soul left one body via death, and was placed in the other body of death. God took away His image and gave them Adam's dead image. The only part left was the soul. They lost their spirit as well. They were indeed, literally physically and spiritually dead totally seperated from God's image of life, and now they were the image of death, both physically and spiritually.

The Holy Spirit is more than just air. Our spirit is more than just air. "Air" is used as the human understanding of how the Holy Spirit works. But the Holy Spirit and our spirit is not just simply air. The Holy Spirit is the third person of the trinity. Our spirit is the third part of who we are. Until we are rejoined with our spirit, God has given us His Holy Spirit as a substitute. While the soul is at home in Adam's image, it cannot be in God's image. Those in Christ, since the Cross, can now experience the soul in God's image, the permanent incorruptible physical body. That is no longer tasting death, but tasting eternal life. We will pass from death into life immediately, not wait for eternal life until a designated event. That is Paul's point in 2 Corinthians 5:1.

 

[dfw69]

No verse states a "new" body from heaven.

I do not believe we will become like Adam before his fall …Paul made a distinction between the first man of earth verse the second Adam from heaven

Those Jesus was born into flesh and bore Adam body of flesh His resurrection was an Incorruptible body from heaven through the Holy Spirit

Could Adam walk through walls appear and disappear fly up to heaven did he have eyes as a flames of fire was adams continence like the sun?


Only a Son of God is able to do such things

The only body from heaven was the one created on the 6th day.

Where is that scripture?

That is not new. That is the only image of God ever.

Adam was not glorified ..Jesus was after the cross and Rev reveals His appearance which differs from Adam

Adam disobeyed God, and became death.

He was still in the likeness of God after his fall death did not change that

Jesus obeyed God to restore God's original life, the image of God.

Jesus is doing away with death which will be the last enemy to be dealt with

Adam did not change in appearance after sinning any more than we change in appearance after sinning for we still bear the image of God in our flesh and death has not changed that fact .. this is nonsense and silly

If Adam was made in heaven in the image of God then he would have a heavenly image but he was created on earth to have an earthly image of God

Jesus on the other hand, because He was Gods Son recieve the heavenly image of God and the first to have obtained such splendor …as shall we obtain one day but you wish to take away from the teachings of Paul and deny the truth

There is not some third body type that Adam started with,

Adam is not Jesus

Adam is flesh made in the image of God

Jesus was made flesh died made Spirit in the image of God through the rebirth of the Holy Spirit , the same one nicodemus could not fathom and it seems your having troubles as well

different than what Jesus was born with.

Jesus was born with flesh
Then
Jesus was born with Heavenly body through the Spirit
Spirit gives birth to Spirit

adam flesh gives birth to adams flesh

Jesus was not born into death.

Born into death ? Did he die on the cross or not?

Jesus was born with a permanent incorruptible physical body like Adam was originally created with.

No Jesus died and his flesh began to corrupt for 3 days and 3 nights like adams flesh

Jesus was human yet without Adam's sin and death body.

human ..yes
Without sin .. yes
Died ..yes
Resurrected to become the Son of God … yes

Jesus was the begotten son of God in God's image.

According to the flesh yes

After His resurrection He became the Son of God according to the Spirit

Adam was the created son of God in God's image, not begotten.

Correct according to the flesh was Adam made in Gods image

Christ also was made in Gods image according to the flesh
But obtained the rebirth through the Spirit to obtain the heavenly image of God

Same body type, not two different body types.

The rebirth came after the cross

The other body type is after Adam disobeyed, and was given a temporal corruptible physical body of death.

No Adam was still in the image of God even after death was pronounced on him

Seth and all from Adam had that second body type, except Jesus.

If this were true Jesus could not have saved man .. no … Jesus became man to redeem man

Your following false doctrine

Jesus was not born into Adam's dead corruptible image.

If this were true Jesus wouldn’t have been able to die

You do not understand Paul’s teaching the body of flesh is corruptible because of death but the Spirit body is incorruptible and eternal and death has no power over it because Gods Spirit is Holy and Eternal and He cannot die

Jesus was the only begotten son of God in God's image, not Adam's.

Yes through the Spirit union with a woman Jesus was born and Adam was created by earthly materials

One body is from the earth the other from heaven

"For the love of Christ constraineth us; because we thus judge, that if one died for all, then were all dead: And that he died for all, that they which live should not henceforth live unto themselves, but unto him which died for them, and rose again. For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him."

When was Jesus made sin for us? On the Cross, or at birth?

He was given to us at birth to become the Savior of our flesh but on the cross He was made a sin offering and paid our death penalty once and for all

When did Jesus become the begotten son of God, after the resurrection or at conception?

He became the Son of God at birth and obtained the physical attributes of God after His resurrection

You are missing the point that Adam and Eve did indeed physically die. Instead of the permanent incorruptible physical body they once had, they were now in a temporal corruptible physical body, the body of death. Their body did not change. Their soul left one body via death, and was placed in the other body of death. God took away His image and gave them Adam's dead image. The only part left was the soul. They lost their spirit as well. They were indeed, literally physically and spiritually dead totally seperated from God's image of life, and now they were the image of death, both physically and spiritually.

Mumbo jumbo

The Holy Spirit is more than just air.

Of course

Our spirit is more than just air.

Sure

"Air" is used as the human understanding of how the Holy Spirit works.

Yes

But the Holy Spirit and our spirit is not just simply air.

Agree

The Holy Spirit is the third person of the trinity.

Yep

Our spirit is the third part of who we are.

Yep

Until we are rejoined with our spirit, God has given us His Holy Spirit as a substitute.

Huh??? Didn’t you mean to say God has given us His Spirit until our full transformation to receive our heavenly bodies takes place ..God has given us the Holy Spirit as a sample of greater things to come ? 1 Corinthians 1:22

While the soul is at home in Adam's image, it cannot be in God's image.

So when the enemy of God looks on humanity they see sinners dead lost corrupted immoral and all manor of evil according to the flesh and they cannot see that they are in the image of God ?
Nor do they see brethren through Adam ?

Only the enemy of God thinks this way

Those in Christ, since the Cross, can now experience the soul in God's image, the permanent incorruptible physical body. That is no longer tasting death, but tasting eternal life.

The incorruptible body is yet to be manifested ..

We still taste death even now …

Eternal life is yet to be manifested ..

We have a sure hope and a sure promise of these things in the future

We will pass from death into life immediately,

Not until the rapture takes place

not wait for eternal life until a designated event.

That is our helmet the hope of salvation yet to come from heaven

That is Paul's point in 2 Corinthians 5:1.

You do not understand Paul but perhaps if you keep searching you may find the truth in his words I hope you do

 

[Timtofly]

He was still in the likeness of God after his fall death did not change that

No.

God does not embody death and sin.

You have everything backwards.

Adam was perfect and glorified prior to disobedience. Adam's disobedience caused death and separation from God.

 

[dfw69]

No.

Yes

God does not embody death and sin.

God does not embody anyone He has His own body

Death can be resurrected
Sin can be atoned

Paul taught a corrupting body can put on an incorruptible body and
A mortal body can put on an immortal body through faith in the atonement and adoption of Messiah

You have everything backwards.

I do not

Adam was perfect and glorified prior to disobedience.

Where is the scripture that he was glorified before his fall ? My Bible says he became a mortal a man

Adam's disobedience caused death and separation from God.

I’ve heard this false doctrine before and I’m no scholar but even I can see that it takes away from what Paul is teaching

The first Adam became a living soul and produced other living souls in what we call humanity

The last Adam became a quickening Spirit who will beget other quickening spirits by way of Rapture

 

[Timtofly]

I’ve heard this false doctrine before and I’m no scholar but even I can see that it takes away from what Paul is teaching

The first Adam became a living soul and produced other living souls in what we call humanity

What does the first point have to do with the second point?

You deny that the image of God was perfect. I get it. But that is a false doctrine.

You are proclaiming that the image of God does not define being glorified. What image do you think we put on then if not God's image?

My Bible says he became a mortal a man

May I ask where in your Bible God created death, and called death, mankind. You do know that the word mortal means death, right?

Obviously Adam became mortal when he disobeyed God. He went from a permanent incorruptible physical body to a temporal corruptible physical body, we call mortal flesh. God said he would die, and Adam and Eve physically died and spiritually died. That is why they are called mortals.

Sons of God are not mortals. They are the living image of God. We are the dead image of Adam. At least until the soul leaves this body, and enters God's body in Paradise.

 

[dfw69]

You deny that the image of God was perfect. I get it. But that is a false doctrine.

I deny that Adam was a son of God according to the heavenly man , to have a heavenly body which was not made possible until Jesus death and resurrection

You are proclaiming that the image of God does not define being glorified. What image do you think we put on then if not God's image?

Paul says one was made of flesh such as the first Adam in the image of God

The one we put on is the one Jesus obtained through His obedience which is a heavenly body in the image of God …He is the second Adam

May I ask where in your Bible God created death, and called death, mankind. You do know that the word mortal means death, right?

No mortal means a living being, such as a human, that is subject to death … Adam was mortal and needed to eat of the tree of life to prolonged his existence

Obviously Adam became mortal when he disobeyed God.

Yes only because the tree of life was taken from him

He went from a permanent incorruptible physical body to a temporal corruptible physical body,

No he was always mortal and death came as a punishment when the tree of life was taken from him

we call mortal flesh.

And mortal will put on immortal bodies at the rapture

God said he would die, and Adam and Eve physically died and spiritually died. That is why they are called mortals.

They eventually died because the nutrients from the tree of life was taken away from them

They were always mortal

Sons of God are not mortals.

Adam was … so was Jesus..
You do realize they both experienced death right?

They are the living image of God. We are the dead image of Adam. At least until the soul leaves this body, and enters God's body in Paradise.

Jesus came to do away with the death sentence and give us eternal life through the Holy Spirit of God which will be given to us so that we may become the children of God at the rapture

 

[Timtofly]

I deny that Adam was a son of God according to the heavenly man , to have a heavenly body which was not made possible until Jesus death and resurrection

So where is this third type of body found then? Only prior to Adam eating the fruit?

Being in the image of God tends to state that Adam did have have that heavenly image. Adam was in the image of the resurrected Jesus Christ. Is there another image out there other than that of Jesus Christ?

You really need to look up the definition of mortal. Adam became mortal when he disobeyed God. Adam was placed in a body of dead flesh, the epitome of the word mortal.

mortal: a human being subject to death.

It comes from the Latin word that literally means death.


Having a mortal body, the adjective form is still death: "subject to death".

Adam would have never died. He only died as the result of disobedience to God. God declared Adam would die. You can assume the fruit killed him, or that death was the punishment for disobedience. I will go with the point that God said he would die, because that is the punishment of disobedience. The command was not to eat. God did not put a disclaimer out there that the fruit was poisonous and would kill them.

So you make it miraculous that Adam would live forever in a dead body. I will stick with the point that Adam was a son of God created with a permanent incorruptible physical body.

 

[Timtofly]

You do realize they both experienced death right?

Jesus was not killed. John 10:17-18

"Therefore doth my Father love me, because I lay down my life, that I might take it again. No man taketh it from me, but I lay it down of myself. I have power to lay it down, and I have power to take it again. This commandment have I received of my Father."

Jesus did not commit suicide either. When Jesus declared it was finished, He gave up the breadth of life all on His own. The same way He arose from death all on His own. No human killed Jesus, and no human gave Jesus back His life.

Jesus did not experience death because He was a mortal in a mortal body. Jesus took His life as God, as the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world. Jesus had the power to lay his life down, experience death, and the power to restore that life, experience the resurrection. Jesus was the Resurrection and the Life. Jesus was the Lamb of God. Jesus was the begotten son of God in a permanent incorruptible physical body, since conception, on the Cross, in the grave, and back out of the grave. The same body from conception throughout eternity. Jesus was not born in Adam's mortal image. It was the other way around. Adam was created in the perfect image of Jesus Christ, the only begotten of God in human flesh, meaning a physical body. Not in human flesh meaning Adam's dead corruptible physical body. Jesus did not leave a dead body laying around somewhere. The body he had still had the scars.

 

[dfw69]

Jesus was not killed. John 10:17-18

"Therefore doth my Father love me, because I lay down my life, that I might take it again. No man taketh it from me, but I lay it down of myself. I have power to lay it down, and I have power to take it again. This commandment have I received of my Father."

Jesus did not commit suicide either. When Jesus declared it was finished, He gave up the breadth of life all on His own. The same way He arose from death all on His own. No human killed Jesus, and no human gave Jesus back His life.

Jesus did not experience death because He was a mortal in a mortal body. Jesus took His life as God, as the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world. Jesus had the power to lay his life down, experience death, and the power to restore that life, experience the resurrection. Jesus was the Resurrection and the Life. Jesus was the Lamb of God. Jesus was the begotten son of God in a permanent incorruptible physical body, since conception, on the Cross, in the grave, and back out of the grave. The same body from conception throughout eternity. Jesus was not born in Adam's mortal image. It was the other way around. Adam was created in the perfect image of Jesus Christ, the only begotten of God in human flesh, meaning a physical body. Not in human flesh meaning Adam's dead corruptible physical body. Jesus did not leave a dead body laying around somewhere. The body he had still had the scars.

Jesus was not killed. John 10:17-18

"Therefore doth my Father love me, because I lay down my life, that I might take it again. No man taketh it from me, but I lay it down of myself. I have power to lay it down, and I have power to take it again. This commandment have I received of my Father."

Jesus did not commit suicide either. When Jesus declared it was finished, He gave up the breadth of life all on His own. The same way He arose from death all on His own. No human killed Jesus, and no human gave Jesus back His life.

Jesus did not experience death because He was a mortal in a mortal body. Jesus took His life as God, as the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world. Jesus had the power to lay his life down, experience death, and the power to restore that life, experience the resurrection. Jesus was the Resurrection and the Life. Jesus was the Lamb of God. Jesus was the begotten son of God in a permanent incorruptible physical body, since conception, on the Cross, in the grave, and back out of the grave. The same body from conception throughout eternity. Jesus was not born in Adam's mortal image. It was the other way around. Adam was created in the perfect image of Jesus Christ, the only begotten of God in human flesh, meaning a physical body. Not in human flesh meaning Adam's dead corruptible physical body. Jesus did not leave a dead body laying around somewhere. The body he had still had the scars.

Acts 2:23 This man was handed over to you by God’s deliberate plan and foreknowledge; and you, with the help of wicked men, put him to death by nailing him to the cross.

Luke 9:22 And he said, “The Son of Man must suffer many things and be rejected by the elders, the chief priests and the teachers of the law, and he must be killed and on the third day be raised to life.”

Man killed Jesus because they rejected His message and refused to believe that He is the Son of God

He is the lamb slain (by men) because He was mortal like Adam

Adam was made flesh from earth materials and able to give life through consummation with a woman through birthing to becomes the children of Adam

Jesus was made flesh but
is from heaven and able to give eternal life through the birthing of the Holy Spirit to become the children of God

 

[dfw69]

So where is this third type of body found then? Only prior to Adam eating the fruit?

God is not of flesh but has a heavenly body and the angels as well

Adam is made of flesh and it’s an earthly body to live on earth

Jesus has and earthly body but changed into a heavenly body to be able to live in heaven

Being in the image of God tends to state that Adam did have have that heavenly image.

Then why create him out of flesh? Was not Adam a new creation? Was he God? Did God create God? why put him on earth? why not create him in heaven?
Was he created as equal as the angels? Or a little lower life form?

Adam was in the image of the resurrected Jesus Christ. Is there another image out there other than that of Jesus Christ?

There’s Adam -flesh
God -Spirit
Jesus -flesh an spirit

You really need to look up the definition of mortal. Adam became mortal when he disobeyed God. Adam was placed in a body of dead flesh, the epitome of the word mortal.

Show me where Adam was placed in a body of dead flesh in scripture

mortal: a human being subject to death.

Correct

It comes from the Latin word that literally means death.

Latin shmatin

Having a mortal body, the adjective form is still death: "subject to death".

Bible says Adam became a living soul …which was not subject to death yet because sin has not been committed…so he was allowed to remain in the garden with the tree of life to eat of its fruits

Adam would have never died. He only died as the result of disobedience to God.

I notice you ignore the tree of life and taking away the garden from him as if it has no significance

God declared Adam would die.

God knowing what punishment was decreed for him for disobedience

You can assume the fruit killed him, or that death was the punishment for disobedience. I will go with the point that God said he would die, because that is the punishment of disobedience. The command was not to eat. God did not put a disclaimer out there that the fruit was poisonous and would kill them.

God told them exactly what would happen if they eat of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil …. They would die …

So you make it miraculous that Adam would live forever in a dead body. I will stick with the point that Adam was a son of God created with a permanent incorruptible physical body.

What is a permanent incorruptible body in your mind? To be like God? In what way?

So Adam was no different from Jesus other than Adam was created and Jesus was conceived?

 

[Timtofly]

Acts 2:23 This man was handed over to you by God’s deliberate plan and foreknowledge; and you, with the help of wicked men, put him to death by nailing him to the cross.

Luke 9:22 And he said, “The Son of Man must suffer many things and be rejected by the elders, the chief priests and the teachers of the law, and he must be killed and on the third day be raised to life.”

Man killed Jesus because they rejected His message and refused to believe that He is the Son of God

He is the lamb slain (by men) because He was mortal like Adam

Adam was made flesh from earth materials and able to give life through consummation with a woman through birthing to becomes the children of Adam

Jesus was made flesh but
is from heaven and able to give eternal life through the birthing of the Holy Spirit to become the children of God

So you take human reasoning over Jesus' own words?

Jesus was God, and God willed that He was the Lamb. No human endeavored to work as the one to sacrifice the only Lamb that God deemed necessary. It was God and Jesus as God in a physical body who did everything that led up to the placing of Jesus on the Cross. That was never thought out nor planned by any human, nor Satan.

No man killed Jesus, and especially not because they rejected Jesus as the Messiah. Jesus would have not been the Messiah if the Cross never happened. The only reason why there is a Messiah, was for Jesus to willingly take His own life on the Cross as the Lamb of God. That act of death on the Cross was the Messiah.

Everything in creation is made up of the tiniest parts of creation. That is physics, the world of the physical. Even the spiritual is part of creation with the same physical makeup as "building blocks" of physics. That is not really the point though. You totally seperate what is understood as spiritual from physical.

The point is not that separation. The difference is between Adam's dead corruptible physical body, and God's permanent incorruptible physical body. That is what you refuse to acknowledge; 2 Corinthians 5:1.

Adam had God's permanent incorruptible physical body when he was created. He disobeyed God and lost that physical body and was given the temporal corruptible physical body described today as mortal. In his new body, Adam would decay and eventually die. Jesus always had God's permanent incorruptible physical body. Jesus could do everything before the Cross, that He did after the Cross. The only difference is now that same body had the scars of being the Messiah.

So all born to Adam in Adam's dead image do have to receive the second birth into God's family, and will receive back Adam's original image he was created with, when the soul leaves one body on earth, and enters the other body in Paradise. At the point of Jesus' earthly ministry all they knew and understood was Adam's dead corruptible image. No one, not even those in Abraham's bosom understood the restoration back to Adam's created state. They all were waiting for a physical resurrection. Some like the Sadduceess claimed there was no such thing as a resurrection, nor ever would be a resurrection at any time. Now, most accept a resurrection, they are still in the dark about how it actually works. By in the dark, I mean all they are going by is human theology that totally contradicts God's Word. So they think they know something.

 

[Timtofly]

I notice you ignore the tree of life and taking away the garden from him as if it has no significance.

No, not ignoring anything. We were talking about Adam's disobedience. Adam could eat from the Tree of Life. But that is not what kept Adam alive. Nor did the tree of life prevent Adam from disobedience.

Why would eating from the Tree of Life keep Adam from disobeying God? You make no sense.

Adam had to leave the Garden, because eating from the Tree of Life would heal his new dead body. That is what Life is, no? Life is the opposite of death, no?

The tree of Life is still in Paradise, and will be in the New Jerusalem. The tree of Life is not the topic, but if you like avoiding the topic, you are free to do so.

God told Adam he would die the instant he disobeyed God. Do you need more proof that Adam died than God's Word? Genesis 2:17.

"But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die."

You will probably come up with some human theology or human reasoning, or even Satan's deception that tries to explain that verse away, and it really does not mean what the verse states. Obviously, you think Adam was already in a state of death and a mortal even before he disobeyed God. What verse declares that reasoning?

 

[Timtofly]

So Adam was no different from Jesus other than Adam was created and Jesus was conceived?

At creation, physically, no. Adam was no different than the baby Jesus. Except Adam was not created as a baby.

Adam was not God, obviously. Adam was in the image of God. Jesus had a physical body and was both God, and in the image of God.

Adam was tasked with obeying God, and failed. Jesus was God and obeyed God as a human and succeeded.