The Purpose of the Rapture.

[dfw69]

So you take human reasoning over Jesus' own words?

No Jesus laid down His life for us He was given that power that authority that right to do so

Jesus was God, and God willed that He was the Lamb.

Yes but in order to become the lamb He had to become mortal to save mortal made little lower than the angels such as we are so that He could be killed after man’s judgement upon Him by the law to set man free from the law

God became flesh that is why He is called the Son of Adam the Son of man

No human endeavored to work as the one to sacrifice the only Lamb that God deemed necessary. It was God and Jesus as God in a physical body who did everything that led up to the placing of Jesus on the Cross. That was never thought out nor planned by any human, nor Satan.

True

No man killed Jesus,

Not true … man judged Him ,man condemned Him ,man scarred Him ,man crucified Him and because of His mortal injuries He died as a lamb slain at the hands of one doing the slaughtering

With His dying breath He cried out it is finished and His body gave up the Ghost because He was mortal

If he truly was the Son of man then He could be killed

and especially not because they rejected Jesus as the Messiah.

The High priest asked

Jesus would have not been the Messiah if the Cross never happened. The only reason why there is a Messiah, was for Jesus to willingly take His own life on the Cross as the Lamb of God. That act of death on the Cross was the Messiah.

Everything in creation is made up of the tiniest parts of creation. That is physics, the world of the physical. Even the spiritual is part of creation with the same physical makeup as "building blocks" of physics. That is not really the point though. You totally seperate what is understood as spiritual from physical.

The point is not that separation. The difference is between Adam's dead corruptible physical body, and God's permanent incorruptible physical body. That is what you refuse to acknowledge; 2 Corinthians 5:1.

Adam had God's permanent incorruptible physical body when he was created. He disobeyed God and lost that physical body and was given the temporal corruptible physical body described today as mortal. In his new body, Adam would decay and eventually die. Jesus always had God's permanent incorruptible physical body. Jesus could do everything before the Cross, that He did after the Cross. The only difference is now that same body had the scars of being the Messiah.

So all born to Adam in Adam's dead image do have to receive the second birth into God's family, and will receive back Adam's original image he was created with, when the soul leaves one body on earth, and enters the other body in Paradise. At the point of Jesus' earthly ministry all they knew and understood was Adam's dead corruptible image. No one, not even those in Abraham's bosom understood the restoration back to Adam's created state. They all were waiting for a physical resurrection. Some like the Sadduceess claimed there was no such thing as a resurrection, nor ever would be a resurrection at any time. Now, most accept a resurrection, they are still in the dark about how it actually works. By in the dark, I mean all they are going by is human theology that totally contradicts God's Word. So they think they know something.

I still don’t understand what that body will look like ? What it’s capable of? What is your understanding of that body can you distinguish it from one another?

 

[dfw69]

No, not ignoring anything. We were talking about Adam's disobedience. Adam could eat from the Tree of Life. But that is not what kept Adam alive. Nor did the tree of life prevent Adam from disobedience.

Then why is it called the tree of Life?

Why would eating from the Tree of Life keep Adam from disobeying God? You make no sense.

Ai glitching again

Eating of the tree of life keeps one alive and it was allowed

Eating of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil was forbidden and it brought death by taking away the tree of life

Adam had to leave the Garden, because eating from the Tree of Life would heal his new dead body. That is what Life is, no? Life is the opposite of death, no?

Or eating of it would sustain his mortal life forevermore

The tree of Life is still in Paradise, and will be in the New Jerusalem. The tree of Life is not the topic, but if you like avoiding the topic, you are free to do so.

Lol ok moving on

God told Adam he would die the instant he disobeyed God. Do you need more proof that Adam died than God's Word? Genesis 2:17.

"But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die."

The announcement of death for disobedience
The punishment to bring death upon them was taking away the tree of life

You will probably come up with some human theology or human reasoning,

Come now let us reason together…

or even Satan's deception that tries to explain that verse away, and it really does not mean what the verse states.

Ah now I’m working for satan because I disagree with you …it’s not a sin to disagree especially if it’s not the truth you speak

Obviously, you think Adam was already in a state of death and a mortal even before he disobeyed God. What verse declares that reasoning?

The first man became a living soul …His body made from earthly materials

There is a heavenly body and an earthly body one is eternal one is mortal

I rest my case

 

[dfw69]

At creation, physically, no. Adam was no different than the baby Jesus. Except Adam was not created as a baby.

I agree only they were both mortal and their deaths proved it

Adam was not God, obviously. Adam was in the image of God. Jesus had a physical body and was both God, and in the image of God.

Yes but both mortal

Adam was tasked with obeying God, and failed. Jesus was God and obeyed God as a human and succeeded.

Amen

 

[Timtofly]

I still don’t understand what that body will look like ? What it’s capable of? What is your understanding of that body can you distinguish it from one another?

Jesus had that body His whole life. He was a human, but not in dead flesh. He had no sin nature, which is part of being mortal in a body of death.


Of course that body can stop living. God can take life and give life back. Being permanent just means it cannot naturally die. As Paul stated a building compared to a tent. Both a building and tent can be destroyed. One more easily than the other.

One is of incorruption. The other of corruption, we call sin. One is of God, the other of sin passed down from Adam.

Hebrews 4:15

"For we have not an high priest which cannot be touched with the feeling of our infirmities; but was in all points tempted like as we are, yet without sin."

Of course Jesus had a physical body. But he never sinned nor had a sin body. He was still tempted like we are.

 

[dfw69]

Jesus had that body His whole life. He was a human,

Yes

but not in dead flesh.

The only dead flesh i know of is the one in the grave that has given up the ghost

He had no sin nature, which is part of being mortal in a body of death.

Jesus was able to sin but refused to disobey His Father

If He had no sin inclination it was because of His Father's genes in Him

But if He couldn’t sin then what’s the point of satan’s temptations?

Of course that body can stop living. God can take life and give life back. Being permanent just means it cannot naturally die.

The Permanent body the eternal body the heavenly body only comes by Christ

To say Adam had that permanent body in the beginning and needed nothing to sustain Him takes away from Paul’s teaching of the 2 types of bodies

As Paul stated a building compared to a tent. Both a building and tent can be destroyed. One more easily than the other.

No the heavenly building cannot be destroyed it’s eternal

One is of incorruption. The other of corruption,

Yes and One is made of the flesh one is made of the Spirit

I think we are going in circles

we call sin. One is of God, the other of sin passed down from Adam.

Adams sin passed down to us only in the sense that we have obtained death because of his failure

But through Christ we have obtained righteousness and eternal life and the resurrection to come will fulfill that truth

Hebrews 4:15

"For we have not an high priest which cannot be touched with the feeling of our infirmities; but was in all points tempted like as we are, yet without sin."

Of course Jesus had a physical body. But he never sinned nor had a sin body. He was still tempted like we are.

Are you trying to spiritualize what body man will receive from Heaven because I don’t see the point in any of this ?

I’m still missing your point what are you trying to say ?

That Adam incorruptible body he had before his fall will be restored in us when Jesus sounds off 2 trumpets?

Jesus had a God like body at resurrection are you saying Adam had a godlike body as well?

 

[Timtofly]

now I’m working for satan because I disagree with you …it’s not a sin to disagree especially if it’s not the truth you speak

Not disagreeing with me. Disagreeing with God.

 

[Timtofly]

I agree only they were both mortal and their deaths proved it
Yes but both mortal.

I disagree with the claim you make that Jesus was a sinner.

But if He couldn’t sin then what’s the point of satan’s temptations?

That is not even a reasonable question. Adam disobeyed God. That was not sinning nor being a sinner. There was no sin, nor death, until after Adam disobeyed God.

Most people can obey rules, even though they are sinners. You don't have to be a sinner to be obedient.

Satan's temptation was to have God worship Satan. You are not God, so those temptations would not even make sense to you. No one is forcing you to worship Satan, even if you are a sinner.

No the heavenly building cannot be destroyed it’s eternal

Yet in Revelation 20:11, both heaven and earth are no longer found. Seems God can end anything, even this eternal body that you claim cannot be destroyed. Where does God store all these bodies that are not in use? If God can create something instantly, certainly He can cause it to stop existing just as easily. It is permanent only as long as God declares it part of His will to be permanent.

 

[Timtofly]

Jesus had a God like body at resurrection are you saying Adam had a godlike body as well?

There are only two types of physical bodies.

One is from Adam in Adam's image. The other is from God in God's image.

Adam was in God's image. Then God took away that physical body, and gave Adam this body we call mortal.

Sons of God are restored back to the original physical body Adam was created with.

The rest of the dead remain dead in the LOF.

 

[dfw69]

Not disagreeing with me. Disagreeing with God.

Your not God …are you a self proclaiming prophet? I’m disagreeing with your belief in your interpretation of Gods word

 

[dfw69]

I disagree with the claim you make that Jesus was a sinner.

No it does not ….and you know I do not believe Jesus sinned against God

Just because Jesus had a mortal body like ours does not automatically make Him a sinner because He is in a mortal body

Committing sins makes one a sinner

That is not even a reasonable question.

It is though Had Jesus accepted Satans offer Hevwould have sinned against God … since He refused He remained true to His Father

Adam disobeyed God.

Jesus did not

That was not sinning nor being a sinner. There was no sin, nor death, until after Adam disobeyed God.

The sin was disobeying the command to not eat of the tree of forbidden fruit

Most people can obey rules, even though they are sinners.

Yes

You don't have to be a sinner to be obedient.

Huh?

Satan's temptation was to have God worship Satan.

No Satan was temping the flesh of Jesus wanting Him to turn sides

You are not God, so those temptations would not even make sense to you.

I don’t need to be God to understand scripture

No one is forcing you to worship Satan, even if you are a sinner.

It’s a choice to believe in the Son of God or follow darkness

Yet in Revelation 20:11, both heaven and earth are no longer found. Seems God can end anything, even this eternal body that you claim cannot be destroyed. Where does God store all these bodies that are not in use? If God can create something instantly, certainly He can cause it to stop existing just as easily. It is permanent only as long as God declares it part of His will to be permanent.

Perhaps nonetheless we will obtain eternal heavenly bodies by the will of God

 

[dfw69]

There are only two types of physical bodies.

One is of flesh made in the image of God

One is from heaven made in the image of Christ who was made in the image of God

One is from Adam in Adam's image.

Adam was made flesh in the image of God

The other is from God in God's image.

Yes and Jesus was the firstborn and first fruit to obtain that heavenly body

Adam was in God's image.

According to the flesh ..And God breathe into it to become a living soul

Then God took away that physical body, and gave Adam this body we call mortal.

No God took away the tree of life from his already mortal ,human , of the flesh body and he began to die from lack of nutrition

Sons of God are restored back to the original physical body Adam was created with.

No sons of God are given bodies to become the children of God through the transformation from flesh to spirit from mortal to immortal form natural to spiritual

And just as we been given adams flesh to bear ..we will also be given Christ heavenly body to bear so that we may live in heaven in new Jerusalem where many abodes exist for us to fill

The rest of the dead remain dead in the LOF.

The rest of the dead are also resurrected and will live eternally in the lake of fire

I disagree with your teachings so will see

 

[Timtofly]

Your not God …are you a self proclaiming prophet? I’m disagreeing with your belief in your interpretation of Gods word

I quoted Scripture, and you disagreed with the verse. Do you even understand that verse in which God declared Adam would die?

I never claimed to be God, nor a prophet. You like to change the subject a lot, no?

 

[Timtofly]

No Satan was temping the flesh of Jesus wanting Him to turn sides

What verse do you get that from?

Jesus did not have a mortal body, because Adam was not the father, neither was Joseph.

"Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:"

Being mortal is being in death. This body is corruption. Does your body become mortal because you sin? Do you have a mortal body because Adam passed one down to you?

Jesus did not have to listen to Satan at all.

You are declaring a result, Jesus being mortal, on what fact? You have not yet produced one Scripture to point out your opinion. You have posted facts from Scripture that really have nothing to do with Jesus being mortal. Having a mortal body does mean corruption and death, whether we sin or not. But having a propensity to sin comes with the desires of this body of corruption.

Jesus did not have to have such desires to be tempted. As you pointed out, Jesus was directly tempted by Satan. That does not prove Jesus had a mortal body. The world has a way of presenting itself and displaying it's offerings that presents any temptation that any one would face. The body does have to experience what the world offers to form an appetite. Jesus was able to avoid falling into the snares this world offers, and never once experienced sin, so never developed a craving for worldly things, that tends to bog us sinners down.

He had to be without sin, and blemish to be the Lamb of God. He only experienced death when He Himself gave up that breadth of life, not that something external caused Him to die. Jesus being God, could have hung on the Cross for years in pain and agony and never succumbed to death. Even in dying, Jesus was not defeated by death, but defeated death itself. Jesus did not have a mortal body. Jesus had a physical body, but the same body that all will receive from God, after leaving Adam's dead flesh that returns to dust. Jesus' body did not return to dust, nor was changed. It was the same body with the exact same wounds received on the Cross.

 

[Timtofly]

One is of flesh made in the image of God

One is from heaven made in the image of Christ who was made in the image of God


Adam was made flesh in the image of God

Yes and Jesus was the firstborn and first fruit to obtain that heavenly body

According to the flesh ..And God breathe into it to become a living soul


No God took away the tree of life from his already mortal ,human , of the flesh body and he began to die from lack of nutrition

No sons of God are given bodies to become the children of God through the transformation from flesh to spirit from mortal to immortal form natural to spiritual

And just as we been given adams flesh to bear ..we will also be given Christ heavenly body to bear so that we may live in heaven in new Jerusalem where many abodes exist for us to fill

The rest of the dead are also resurrected and will live eternally in the lake of fire

I disagree with your teachings so will see

Jesus was conceived with that body. First born, not first resurrected. You know the difference between birth and resurrection, no?

Adam lost that original body. Adam was created in a permanent incorruptible physical body. Then Adam died and was given a temporal corruptible physical body. You are not paying attention to what death means.

We are in Adam's dead corruptible image, nor God's.

Upon the soul leaving Adam's dead corruptible physical body, the soul then enters God's permanent incorruptible physical body. Read 2 Corinthians 5:1 a couple more tines.

Adam was not created into a mortal body, and neither was Jesus born into a mortal body. Adam was created with the body Jesus was born with. Adam died, which placed all of his offspring into a mortal body. Except Jesus, because Jesus was the firstborn of Adam's offspring into God's permanent incorruptible physical body. Firstborn, not first resurrected. Jesus left the tomb through all that dirt and stone, in the same body they placed in that tomb, which was them sealed with a huge stone. Jesus was already gone, when the stone was rolled away. And there was not a pile of dust or bones.

Why do you deny that Adam died and went from God's image to a mortal corruptible physical body?

Why do you deny that Jesus was born in God's image, which was also Adam's original physical body?

Why do you deny that as sons of God, we have that image of God immediately after leaving Adam's dead image that only returns to dust?

"For we know that if our earthly house of this tabernacle were dissolved, we have a building of God, an house not made with hands, eternal in the heavens."

Two types of physical bodies. Adam's dead corruptible physical body. God's permanent incorruptible physical body.

Adam lost the physical body God gave him. Christ gave back that physical body starting with Lazarus, and all those souls in Abraham's bosom.

Being made alive is leaving this tabernacle for the building prepared by God.

I have no teachings. I only point out the Word of God.

 

[dfw69]

I quoted Scripture, and you disagreed with the verse. Do you even understand that verse in which God declared Adam would die?

It’s pretty basic the command was …don’t eat of it…the punishment you will die … they disobeyed.. the garden was taken away from them… eventually they die from malnutrition

I never claimed to be God, nor a prophet. You like to change the subject a lot, no?

I ask a lot of questions to get where your coming from and to understand you better yes

 

[Timtofly]

It’s pretty basic the command was …don’t eat of it…the punishment you will die … they disobeyed.. the garden was taken away from them… eventually they die from malnutrition

I ask a lot of questions to get where your coming from and to understand you better yes

900 years seems a long time to starve to death from malnutrition:

"And all the days that Adam lived were nine hundred and thirty years: and he died."

 

[dfw69]

900 years seems a long time to starve to death from malnutrition:

"And all the days that Adam lived were nine hundred and thirty years: and he died."

He still had the tree of life nutrients in His system

 

[Timtofly]

He still had the tree of life nutrients in His system

You claimed he starved to death of malnutrition. Can you make up your mind?

 

[dfw69]

You claimed he starved to death of malnutrition. Can you make up your mind?

We eat every day Adam did too …but without the tree of life we eventually die because we are mortal

 

[dfw69]

What verse do you get that from?

From the temptations of Jesus by satan .. he showed all the kingdoms in his power and offered it to Jesus if he would worship Him…Jesus basically said no .. he wanted Jesus to side with Him and the kingdoms would be given to Him

Jesus did not have a mortal body, because Adam was not the father, neither was Joseph

Then He would not be able to die nor suffer the pain of being whipped and crucified

"Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:"

Correct Adam’s fall and separation from the garden cause us to experience death and separation from the tree of life

Being mortal is being in death.

Adam was created mortal and was subjected to death but the tree of life and water kept him alive …

If he was not mortal and subject to death then why give him food and water in the garden? What’s the purpose of those items?

This body is corruption.

Because of death

Does your body become mortal because you sin?

We are born mortal and eventually we die

Do you have a mortal body because Adam passed one down to you?

Yes

Jesus did not have to listen to Satan at all.

But He could have chosen to rebel against God but was wise enough not to knowing what was coming to Him for obedience

You are declaring a result, Jesus being mortal, on what fact?

The fact that He died lol

You have not yet produced one Scripture to point out your opinion.

You know the scriptures I’m referring to

You have posted facts from Scripture that really have nothing to do with Jesus being mortal. Having a mortal body does mean corruption and death, whether we sin or not. But having a propensity to sin comes with the desires of this body of corruption.

Jesus ate and drank so He was mortal

Jesus did not have to have such desires to be tempted. As you pointed out, Jesus was directly tempted by Satan. That does not prove Jesus had a mortal body. The world has a way of presenting itself and displaying it's offerings that presents any temptation that any one would face. The body does have to experience what the world offers to form an appetite. Jesus was able to avoid falling into the snares this world offers, and never once experienced sin,

Amen

so never developed a craving for worldly things, that tends to bog us sinners down.

He had to be without sin, and unblemish to be the Lamb of God.

Right

He only experienced death when He Himself gave up that breadth of life, not that something external caused Him to die. Jesus being God, could have hung on the Cross for years in pain and agony and never succumbed to death.

No giving up the ghost is just another way is saying he died

Even in dying, Jesus was not defeated by death, but defeated death itself.

By His resurrection

Jesus did not have a mortal body.

There is a mortal body and Jesus had one

And there is a heavenly body and Jesus obtained one after His resurrection

Jesus had a physical body, but the same body that all will receive from God, after leaving Adam's dead flesh that returns to dust. Jesus' body did not return to dust, nor was changed. It was the same body with the exact same wounds received on the Cross.

It was glorified… how can He be eternal if it was the same mortal body ? how can He fly up to heaven to sit at Gods right side? How is He still be alive ? How can He appear inside the room with closed doors to appear before His disciples?

Paul’s say we will a body from heaven to recieve heavenly bodies … is this truth what your fighting against ?