The problem of evil

[ToddNotTodd]

the thief cannot blame the lawmaker for his punishment when he gets caught, nor can he lay the fault at the judge's feet for his sentence. It is his fault, his decision, and any attempt to muddle the issue is just that; an attempt to muddy the waters so as to confuse and redirect someone from the truth.

If the lawmaker could have created the thief so that he exercised his free will in never choosing to steal, then yes, the lawmaker is entirely culpable for any consequences from the thief's actions, and completely illogical in meting out any punishment towards the thief.

Tell me, if I let a rabid dog in an elementary school, am I culpable for any mauling that might occur? I mean, I'M not the one doing anything. It's the dog...

 

[Dan Bert]

As the Scriptures say....there is but One Good. ////People say God is good....where do you think this is inspired from?

believe what you will....But I need to warn you the meaning of words as defined by the wisdom of man is not necessary the same meaning in Heaven. Satan change many things over the many centuries. That is one reason why it is said the whole world is deceived...(Except for the Elect because these are taught of God instead of man and his wisdom)

dan

The English word "God" does not derive from "good" — the two are etymologically unrelated. "God" appears to the etymologists to derive from ancient verbal roots connected to meanings "to pour" or "to summon".

 

[Dan Bert]

One cannot demonstrate the Spiritual....that is where truth comes from. That is how a belief is transformed into knowledge. Many do not understand that "beliefs" are not necessary true because many people say so. A belief is transformed into knowledge by either living a law...and tasting its fruits and finding them sweet and by Experiencing it Spiritually. Paul said the Spiritual can only be compared by those who were Spiritual...Scriptures by private interpretation failed Israel in the olden days and shall fail Christians in our day. As proof of what I say...every Christian nations is under the wrath of God today and heading towards destruction.

dan

Thats cool that you personally know this to be true. But, if you cant demonstrate this truth in an objective verifiable way, you understand why others dont agree with you, correct?

 

[Dan Bert]

Everything God does for us and to us and allow to happen to us is for our Good. God by Isaiah said he Created good and Evil...because we need opposition and duality in all things...so that we can measure, weigh and evaluate all things including moral behaviors. Good exist because evil Exist. There would be no way to be judged without having a scale of Good at one end and evil at the other.

The Elect would view things not happening to world as Good and Evil or what is happening to them as good and evil...as this belong on the tree of knowledge of good and evil....the Elect would view things from the tree of life as positive life experiences or painful life experiences for our good.

The way we view our fellow man and view the world determines the degree of Spirituality we have achieved. Unity is the goal and as long as we continue to think in terms of good and evil....which is divisive we have a long way to go. Sometime after the fall man came to associate things like pain as bad and evil ...rather than chastisement for our good...and this actually cause to feel separated from God when anything "bad" happens to us or to the world.

dan

So if the Nazi's titled Hitler "Hitler the Good", everything he did would have been good? If someone said, "Hitler can't do anything bad, it is impossible," would you accept that explanation?

Just because people claim God can only do good does not make it true.



Writing stuff in books doesn't make it true. Surely you understand that.

 

[bhsmte]

One cannot demonstrate the Spiritual....that is where truth comes from. That is how a belief is transformed into knowledge. Many do not understand that "beliefs" are not necessary true because many people say so. A belief is transformed into knowledge by either living a law...and tasting its fruits and finding them sweet and by Experiencing it Spiritually. Paul said the Spiritual can only be compared by those who were Spiritual...Scriptures by private interpretation failed Israel in the olden days and shall fail Christians in our day. As proof of what I say...every Christian nations is under the wrath of God today and heading towards destruction.

dan

Sounds entirely subjective based on your personal experience and perception.

It applies to you alone and if that works for you, thats cool.

 

[Resha Caner]

And again with the non argument...

Come, come. Let's keep this fun. I may be unable to explain myself well, but it will be fun to try as long as we all keep our head.

For my part, we only need consider one of the horns. There is no objective standard independent of God's will. There is nothing over which God's sovereignty does not extend. I don't know/recall your position regarding whether morality is objective or subjective, so it would help for you to state your position. But, again, as far as I'm concerned we need only discuss the other horn ...

The other horn being that supposedly a morality extending only from God's will is arbitrary. I don't think that's the case simply because God is also the creator. As such, he knows the purpose for which everything was created and knows what is best for everything that is created. I don't see how it is arbitrary for him to express a morality that fulfills those purposes and achieves what is best.

That's the short version, though I expect you may want to unpack it and pursue where some aspect or another leads.

 

[Picky Picky]

As the Scriptures say....there is but One Good. ////People say God is good....where do you think this is inspired from?

believe what you will....But I need to warn you the meaning of words as defined by the wisdom of man is not necessary the same meaning in Heaven. Satan change many things over the many centuries. That is one reason why it is said the whole world is deceived...(Except for the Elect because these are taught of God instead of man and his wisdom)

dan

We are fortunate, perhaps, that you have been able to inform us of the heavenly derivation of an English word, otherwise we might have been stuck with the derivation discovered by etymologists, Satan, and the Oxford English Dictionary.

Dan Bert, it really doesn't matter that you were mistaken about the derivation of the word "God". I put in my picky little correction simply for the sake of the record. Popular etymologies like yours are common enough, and harmless so long as not too much is made of them and so long as the means of correction exists.

The best thing to have done would have been to ignore me, or acknowledge what I said, or to counter it with fact. To cover your mistake with fanciful nonsense about the OED being the work of Satan does you no favours.

 

[Dan Bert]

Truth is from the Spirit of truth....You are right the books point to GOD and to the Spirit of truth. The Elect are taught of God not from books and not from mans wisdom and interpretation of the Scriptures.

Dan

So if the Nazi's titled Hitler "Hitler the Good", everything he did would have been good? If someone said, "Hitler can't do anything bad, it is impossible," would you accept that explanation?

Just because people claim God can only do good does not make it true.



Writing stuff in books doesn't make it true. Surely you understand that.

 

[Dan Bert]

There is no way to transform "beliefs" into knowledge with experiencing it. Those that have belief are at the belief stage...when we say I Believe this ....concerning the Spiritual it is the Ego speaking...when someone that has undergone the process...says I know this to be true...it is the Spirit speaking. You are right concerning Spiritual experiences....it cannot be transferred to another....each must seek to transform their beliefs into knowledge...or else they remain at the belief stage without really knowing if their beliefs are true or not.

bert10

Sounds entirely subjective based on your personal experience and perception.

It applies to you alone and if that works for you, thats cool.

 

[Dan Bert]

Example....the word "believe" in heaven it means "to be" and "to live" the teachings and saying of Christ. That is faith..as in power. The word "Faith" now days...is use to mean one's set of beliefs...but faith is not a set of beliefs ...a religion is a set of beliefs...faith is the power that gets things done.

Those that follow after the Jews for truth in the Scriptures will err like them...those who follow after the Greeks for meaning of their Scriptures will end up damming themselves by logic like they did and those who use the Oxford dictionary for truth will go on to make even greater error....Information that does not come from the Spirit is of man....and man's wisdom. Which God calls foolishness. The world is deceived because Satan has had thousand of years to introduce errors. Just watch the Da Vinci Code movie in the beginning as the Professor shows how symbols were reversed in meaning over time...

Only the Spirit of God has the truth and is not deceived and only those who get their truth from the Spirit of God will not be deceived. The books dictionaries are merely tools not the truth ....given to us by God to point in the direction...the rest is filled in by the Spirit of God.

dan

We are fortunate, perhaps, that you have been able to inform us of the heavenly derivation of an English word, otherwise we might have been stuck with the derivation discovered by etymologists, Satan, and the Oxford English Dictionary.

Dan Bert, it really doesn't matter that you were mistaken about the derivation of the word "God". I put in my picky little correction simply for the sake of the record. Popular etymologies like yours are common enough, and harmless so long as not too much is made of them and so long as the means of correction exists.

The best thing to have done would have been to ignore me, or acknowledge what I said, or to counter it with fact. To cover your mistake with fanciful nonsense about the OED being the work of Satan does you no favours.

 

[Dan Bert]

Being stuck with the wrong definition is the least of your problems. You have noticed that things are getting worse in all Christians countries around the world right? Even in the Southwest USA and generally in the bible belt right? And as a sign to you that I am telling the truth things will continue to get worse..No matter what Christians do. In fact things will be again worse and more terrible once this pause is over.

dan

We are fortunate, perhaps, that you have been able to inform us of the heavenly derivation of an English word, otherwise we might have been stuck with the derivation discovered by etymologists, Satan, and the Oxford English Dictionary.

Dan Bert, it really doesn't matter that you were mistaken about the derivation of the word "God". I put in my picky little correction simply for the sake of the record. Popular etymologies like yours are common enough, and harmless so long as not too much is made of them and so long as the means of correction exists.

The best thing to have done would have been to ignore me, or acknowledge what I said, or to counter it with fact. To cover your mistake with fanciful nonsense about the OED being the work of Satan does you no favours.

 

[Picky Picky]

Example....the word "believe" in heaven it means "to be" and "to live" the teachings and saying of Christ. That is faith..as in power. The word "Faith" now days...is use to mean one's set of beliefs...but faith is not a set of beliefs ...a religion is a set of beliefs...faith is the power that gets things done.

Those that follow after the Jews for truth in the Scriptures will err like them...those who follow after the Greeks for meaning of their Scriptures will end up damming themselves by logic like they did and those who use the Oxford dictionary for truth will go on to make even greater error....Information that does not come from the Spirit is of man....and man's wisdom. Which God calls foolishness. The world is deceived because Satan has had thousand of years to introduce errors. Just watch the Da Vinci Code movie in the beginning as the Professor shows how symbols were reversed in meaning over time...

Only the Spirit of God has the truth and is not deceived and only those who get their truth from the Spirit of God will not be deceived. The books dictionaries are merely tools not the truth ....given to us by God to point in the direction...the rest is filled in by the Spirit of God.

dan

Ah, the da Vinci Code. I offer you the Oxford English Dictionary, one of the world's greatest works of scholarship, and you offer me the da Vinci Code.

 

[Picky Picky]

Being stuck with the wrong definition is the least of your problems. You have noticed that things are getting worse in all Christians countries around the world right? Even in the Southwest USA and generally in the bible belt right? And as a sign to you that I am telling the truth things will continue to get worse..No matter what Christians do. In fact things will be again worse and more terrible once this pause is over.

dan

Nope, things are better than they have ever been, possibly even in the Southwest USA. There are certainly very serious problems to be dealt with — the violence spawned by religion, the threat to the world's climate — but we might be able to deal with these if we concentrate on what is important.

 

[zippy2006]

And thank God for that This is one pointy horn of the Euthyphro Dilemma - if 'what is good' is defined as, 'what God is, says, does, or tells you to do', then it becomes autocratic and arbitrary; by substitution, 'what God is, says, does, or tells you to do is good' becomes simply, 'what God is, says, does, or tells you to do is what God is, says, does, or tells you to do'; 'good' sublimes away... and if God has the prerogative to do things that man is not allowed to do, there's a double standard of 'good', as in, "do as I say, not as I do"; and if good is defined that way, it may also be contradictory to our own inner moral compass, which is likely to be problematic. Other than that, it's fine

Light is shed on these questions in this post and this post.

 

[Archaeopteryx]

Light is shed on these questions in this post and this post.

It seems to me that this lends support to what FrumiousBandersnatch has said, rather than detracting from it, particularly the reply to objection 1.

 

[Dan Bert]

1.You mean the news made up all that stuff up from last summer and last winter storms this year dragging each state down further toward bankruptcy?
2.The states and the Federal governments are already taking steps in cut back of Benefits. Social Benefits are an unfunded asset....so they will have to cut back. Do you have a TV or at least a computer? 9 million Americans who are most vulnerable will directly feel the cut back...from bills have been passed this year.

Are you sure you are living in the USA?

How many times you have to see Americans run for their lives from giant tormados,,,,,Or the Crops dying from the drought,,,watch more of California burn and dry up?

dan

Nope, things are better than they have ever been, possibly even in the Southwest USA. There are certainly very serious problems to be dealt with — the violence spawned by religion, the threat to the world's climate — but we might be able to deal with these if we concentrate on what is important.

 

[Dan Bert]

You are still not getting it...the world greatest works of Scholarship is what God calls foolishness. God is going to burn the world before the millennium....and the all the works of man including their dictionaries will be burned.

bert10

Ah, the da Vinci Code. I offer you the Oxford English Dictionary, one of the world's greatest works of scholarship, and you offer me the da Vinci Code.

 

[Picky Picky]

1.You mean the news made up all that stuff up from last summer and last winter storms this year dragging each state down further toward bankruptcy?
2.The states and the Federal governments are already taking steps in cut back of Benefits. Social Benefits are an unfunded asset....so they will have to cut back. Do you have a TV or at least a computer? 9 million Americans who are most vulnerable will directly feel the cut back...from bills have been passed this year.

Are you sure you are living in the USA?

How many times you have to see Americans run for their lives from giant tormados,,,,,Or the Crops dying from the drought,,,watch more of California burn and dry up?

dan

No, I'm sure I'm not living in the USA.

It's always dangerous to think weather is climate, but yes I am told that there is evidence of the climate change that has been predicted. We could say that's just God being nasty, or we could try to deal with the output of greenhouse gases. I suggest the latter would be the more productive choice.

 

[Picky Picky]

You are still not getting it...the world greatest works of Scholarship is what God calls foolishness. God is going to burn the world before the millennium....and the all the works of man including their dictionaries will be burned.

bert10

That'll be the God of Love we're always being told about?

 

[Chriliman]

That'll be the God of Love we're always being told about?

Yes, it's the kind of burning which refines something to perfection. Its not a pointless heartless kind of burning. God will make His creation into what He desires it to be and this involves burning away what's useless and keeping what's valuable.