There is always more to learn about this. I understand that "Heaven" now is where Jesus is on God's throne, with ones who are loving and praising God. But these in Heaven are spiritual beings, and they have the spiritual nature of God's love. So, Heaven now is where there is only love that is pure and kind and caring in our Father's family caring and sharing way.
We are told by people that their ailments were cured by God. People claim that God made their cancer go into remission, for example. So why can't God do that for everyone?
We are expecting God to do what people already claim that he does.
Does Heaven have evil on random days? Will people in Heaven die of painful cancers?
Some believe in God and have cancer and ask Him to cure it but He does not cure it. God has a specific plan for humanity and this plan entails that some people are not cured from cancer even if they want to be.
God has a specific plan for humanity and this plan entails that for the most part, life is ordered according to certain laws that have been established by God. If a person smokes cigarettes all of their life knowing that they have an increased chance of getting cancer, and then do, then pray to God to cure them and then get mad when He does not, then the person is just being a big baby, crying and whining that they cannot have everything the way they want it.
A loving father does not give their child everything the child asks for. The father knows what's best.
Sure I can. Suffering is defined as "the state of undergoing pain, distress or hardship"
If you're in a state of pure goodness, that's better than being in a state of half evil, half good. It's not that hard to figure out.
So it's an unloving plan... gotcha...
from a human perspective on a physical plain its an unloving plan ....on a spiritual plain over eternity it may not be
That leaves us with the question "Why the heck would God want a physical world to exist?"for me its yin and yang or night and day for a physical world to exist maybe there needs to be both good and bad for life to exist.
...but you have no idea how it possibly could be?from a human perspective on a physical plain its an unloving plan ....on a spiritual plain over eternity it may not be
So it's an unloving plan... gotcha...
How about an actual baby, crying and whining as it dies of ebola in a remote jungle? Is the baby getting what it deserves? Never mind, plenty of Christians I've talked to believe that the baby actually is getting what it deserves.
If I were omnipotent, why wouldn't I give my child everything it asks for? Like when my seven year old is in pain, why wouldn't I relieve that pain if I could?
Various reasons.
Unbelief is one of these reasons.
Those who have cancer and deny God exists, or believe He exists but hate Him do not generally ask God to cure their cancer.
If a person smokes cigarettes all of their life knowing that they have an increased chance of getting cancer, and then do, then pray to God to cure them and then get mad when He does not, then the person is just being a big baby, crying and whining that they cannot have everything the way they want it.
If a person has sex with whoever will give it to them whenever they can get it, and then get an STD and then pray to God to heal them and He does not, then they again, are just attempting to use God like they have used others to get what they want.
God is not bound to bow down and cater to the sinful desires of fallen man or to be there every time you want something.
A loving father does not give their child everything the child asks for.
The father knows what's best.
As I stated, those that do rely in and trust in God's mercy realize that either way it goes, they will one day die. This is inescapable. So even when God does not answer their prayers in the precise manner they would have desired, they still trust Him to do what is right.[/qutoe]
Then what's the point?
And you should expect Him to. He is even now throughout the world.
The testimonies of literally millions exist to bear this out.
As long as you remain in unbelief, you cannot see the Kingdom of Heaven.
You do realize that people have testimonies of gods that you don't believe in, don't you?
Jeremy E Walker said:Non-sequitur.
And they would be wrong. Just because a Christian has a view about something, it does not follow that that view is biblical.
A man died and stood before God and God asks the man why he did not believe in Him and the man replies. "you did not help the suffering babies who were dying from ebola!" God replies, "remember the first time you read about the plight of these children and how you felt a sense of compassion for them?" The man replies, "yes." God then says, "I had arranged for you to personally be able to help in alleviating these children's suffering by giving you the money and the means to help them, but you were too concerned about arguing with a Christian on an internet forum and the window of opportunity came and went. Since you found the children unworthy of your time effort and money, I sent my own followers to help these children and even now, after your death, they are giving their lives, effort, time and money for the sake of these children. So you see, it was you who was evil in not helping when you could have. I wanted to give you the awesome privilege of being able to see a sick child recover and go on to grow up and know that you had a part in it. But you rejected the opportunity. You rejected it because you did not love them."
This Todd, is what you need to think long and hard about.
If your child asks you for a loaded gun or a cup of rat poison you would not give it to them.
What have you done to alleviate the pain of children suffering from ebola?
Then God is immoral. It is immoral to require a child to worship you before you will cure them of a painful and life threatening disease.
Why would you have to ask?
Anyone whose plan requires billions to die of painful cancers is not a moral person.
Smoking only causes you to get cancer sooner. If you live long enough, you will get cancer. It is built into us. At some point, all of the safeguards built into our cells to prevent cancer will fail.
What kind of moral person punishes people with HIV for having sex? If someone decided that their neighbor was immoral, and they stuck them with a needle containing HIV, would they go to jail? Would they themselves be immoral?
Sinful desires? You mean the ones that God gave us?
Does a loving father withhold a cure for cancer from their child out of spite?
Then why are fathers thrown in jail for sexually abusing their children?
Then what's the point?
You do realize that people have testimonies of gods that you don't believe in, don't you?
How does this let God off the hook?
I know a child will die of ebola (I am omniscient).
I can save that child (I am omnipotent).
I know that X could prevent that death, but won't (omniscient)
I know that X won't find out about his wasted opportunity until he's dead, when it's too late to save himself or the child (pesky omniscience, again).
Despite knowing all this, and despite having the power to save the child, I let the child die.
Only conclusion possible here: My omniscience and omnipotence prove that I am not omnibenevolent.
Levi777,
What will you do when die expecting to see Jesus but instead find yourself in the presence of Thor. He will ask you why you didn't help the Aesir wage war against the Giants but instead mocked him by denying his existence! Then you will be cast into Nifelheim the domain of Hel. 《- See how awesome and convincing the "agree with me or suffer for eternity" arguments are when you don't even believe in the said mythology.
Non Sequitur.
That's not even coherent. That child isn't dying from "sin", it's dying from ebola, an in curable and fatal disease which presumably your deity created and set loose on the inhabitants of this planet.
[I]Ebola is the fruit of corruption in this world. God did not cause the corruption. The demonic did. This is the "another will" of which I spoke in my original post in this thread. God alone can create life and sustain life. He also alone has the power to cast a soul into a place where there is death without loss of consciousness. He will not change His standards and perspectives to accept people who object to His existence, and blame Him for all the wrong in the world. This world is a temporary construct, created for a specific purpose....a purpose which appears to be to me, at least in part, the final destruction of "another will", or evil. It is a sorrow that the internet is rife with people who choose "another will". [/I]
Hollywood has made a fortune by depicting various gods as mean and angry. They aren't really concerned about the truth, for that is not the agenda, but when people who do not know Him think of God, the movies is where they get their perspectives. Rightly do they understand that their views of God come from fiction, so they judge theirselves by their arrogant refusal to seek the truth, wherever it may lead.
Doesn't speak well for its "omnipotence" if it can't create a creature that will behave as it wants. More omnipotence problems. And petty finger-pointing. It's a poor craftsman who blames his creations.
Again, another will. Unlike most humans, God plays fair. The accusation was made, and He will answer it completely. In every way, evil will be shown to be evil. And the only way evil can be shown to be evil is by the mature fruit of evil. How do we know that "another will" is evil and worthy of destruction? Look at the fruit of it.
Kinda silly to put the forbidden magick tree in the paradise-garden-thingy in the first place. Looks a whole lot like an unfair set-up. You'd think an omniscient, all-wise being would have worked that out itself.
So you would counsel Eve to take a bite? what's whispering in your ear?
...and what are you doing to help children dying of ebola?
What are you doing to help anyone?
Except for that little nagging part about your story claiming your deity creates everything, including the ebola virus that's killing a child who hasn't "sinned".
As I said above, the backpeddling will be most sorrowful indeed.
God is off the hook because the blame is assigned to the one who is to blame, sinful man, not a Holy God.
It is because of the choice of a man, that sin is in this world, and death through sin. God did not cause Adam to sin. Adam sinned because he wanted something even after being warned what would happen for disobeying God.
If you do not love the children dying of Ebola and have done nothing to alleviate their suffering, then you and everyone else like you are to blame. Not God.
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