The Problem of Evil

[quatona]

No, because benevolence is ultimately directed towards the best possible goal for the universe. For example, if bacteria were the center of the universe, antibiotics would be a horrible thing. If we are the center of the universe, antibiotics are great.

My position is that clearly neither man nor microbe is the true center of the universe, so to ascertain benevolence by either measure would be extremely illogical. And, until we have a compelling reason to feel that we know that man is indeed the center of the universe, there isn't even a problem of evil. Evil befalling us would be a side show.

You didn´t answer my question.

 

[abacabb3]

You didn´t answer my question.

I explicitly did. No, it is not necessarily directed towards specific beings within the creation, because to make that assertion requires those beings to be in effect the center of the universe, a claim which I don't think can be demonstrated.

 

[quatona]

I explicitly did. No, it is not necessarily directed towards specific beings within the creation, because to make that assertion requires those beings to be in effect the center of the universe, a claim which I don't think can be demonstrated.

It was not a yes/no question. It asked "What or whom could God´s alleged benevolence possibly be directed to (if not towards his sentient creatures)?".
And since you talk so much about the center of the universe that your God is allegedly concerned with most: What is this center of the universe that it revolves around?

 

[abacabb3]

It was not a yes/no question. It asked "What or whom could God´s alleged benevolence possibly be directed to (if not towards his sentient creatures)?".

aND i ANSWERED NOT THE CREATURES UNLESS THE CREATURES ARE THE FOCAL POINT OF THE UNIVERSE. (Sorry, all caps)

And since you talk so much about the center of the universe that your God is allegedly concerned with most: What is this center of the universe that it revolves around?

Great question. We don't know empirically, but in my opinion an omniscient, omnipotent, omnibenevolent God would center the unvierse around the greatest of all possible beings...which would be the omniscient, omnipotent, omnibenevolent God. There is no better center.

However, I can't prove that.

 

[quatona]

aND i ANSWERED NOT THE CREATURES UNLESS THE CREATURES ARE THE FOCAL POINT OF THE UNIVERSE.

Well, I asked "what is...?" and not "what is not...?"

(Sorry, all caps)

Try the caps (un)lock key.
.

Great question. We don't know empirically, but in my opinion an omniscient, omnipotent, omnibenevolent God would center the unvierse around the greatest of all possible beings...which would be the omniscient, omnipotent, omnibenevolent God. There is no better center.

So when saying "God is benevolent" this means that God is benevolent towards Himself? That´s word salad.

 

[fireof god98]

Yay, I agree with Loudmouth on something!

Man's free will is not why there is evil. God has clearly ordained evil and has veto power over man's free will, that He directs it (or ignores it) as He pleases according to the Scriptures, in order to work out His purposes.

I have written in much more detail about it here.

that sounds like determinism

 

[PsychoSarah]

that sounds like determinism

Well, he is a determinist.

 

[Chany]

Well, he is a determinist.

I didn't know abacabb was a determinist.

 

[abacabb3]

So when saying "God is benevolent" this means that God is benevolent towards Himself? That´s word salad.

Can't prove the notion, but would be internally inconsistent about it?

 

[abacabb3]

What's determinism as you define it?

 

[PsychoSarah]

What's determinism as you define it?

-_- all events are on a set path from which they cannot deviate. Path might not be the best word though because it somewhat suggests something set it up.

 

[abacabb3]

-_- all events are on a set path from which they cannot deviate. Path might not be the best word though because it somewhat suggests something set it up.

Roughly, yes I agree with that. If there isn't a god and everything occurs because of the laws of physics, it stands to reason that everything is essentially an elaborate game of domino rally.

If my theological world view is correct, God decrees alle vents and knows how they will turn out.

I think the only way to not be a determinist is to believe there is a god that ordains free will and that there are realities beyond the material reality, and that same god purposely does not mess with stuff or if it does it does so not all the time and at a whim, but it is not the God found in the Bible.

 

[durangodawood]

Roughly, yes I agree with that. If there isn't a god and everything occurs because of the laws of physics, it stands to reason that everything is essentially an elaborate game of domino rally....

It appears that the laws of physics permit certain random events.

 

[PsychoSarah]

Roughly, yes I agree with that. If there isn't a god and everything occurs because of the laws of physics, it stands to reason that everything is essentially an elaborate game of domino rally.

If my theological world view is correct, God decrees alle vents and knows how they will turn out.

I think the only way to not be a determinist is to believe there is a god that ordains free will and that there are realities beyond the material reality, and that same god purposely does not mess with stuff or if it does it does so not all the time and at a whim, but it is not the God found in the Bible.

I am not a determinist

 

[abacabb3]

It appears that the laws of physics permit certain random events.

It appears for now, jury is still out.

 

[abacabb3]

I am not a determinist

Good for you!

 

[durangodawood]

It appears for now, jury is still out.

If so, your picture of the material universe cannot reasonably exclude random events.

 

[abacabb3]

If so, your picture of the material universe cannot reasonably exclude random events.

True, it doesn't bother me that much either way. If my whole worldview is wrong and the universe is chaotic, then moral evils really don't even exist.

 

[Loudmouth]

From this discussion, it appears that we can establish two things.

First, God is not omnipotent. Things are going to turn out a specific way, and there is nothing God can do about it.

Second, God can't stop evil.

If God can't change events and can't stop evil, then why call him God?

 

[Neogaia777]

From this discussion, it appears that we can establish two things.

First, God is not omnipotent. Things are going to turn out a specific way, and there is nothing God can do about it.

Second, God can't stop evil.

If God can't change events and can't stop evil, then why call him God?

You are wrong on both accounts...

Things are turning or are going to turn out a specific way cause that's the way God planned it.

Secondly I already mentioned before how god will go against the laws of nature, even in the laws of sin and death, even his own plans sometimes, which are like a law of physics or nature in some cases, sometimes, when he chooses to and he has proven this...

God Bless!