The Problem of Evil

[durangodawood]

How could I possibly know what limits Santa Claus?

the existence of god is not even an issue here.

The question is: how reliable is reasoning about God... a being defined as mysterious. You cant reason about mystery, by definition. You can intuit, though, for better or worse.

 

[quatona]

You are not accounting for possibilities that you cant even imagine.

I see no basis to think we can reliably imagine things from the "Gods eye view". Its God, ultimately mysterious!

I wish that people who - at some point in the discussion - are willing to escape to the "it´s ultimately mysterious" defense, would do that right at the beginning. It would spare us the illusion that all participants are trying to have a reasoned and meaningful discussion.

I also wish that these people wouldn´t make claims about god, in the first place (only to eventually tell us that these claims are - due to the mystery of it all - ultimately meaningless).

 

[RDKirk]

I know that a light cannot be both on and off at the same time (no dimmer switch on this one) in our universe. To violate some things is to tear the universe apart.

It might. Heisenberg Uncertainty Principle.

 

[durangodawood]

Once again . . . Santa Claus is mysterious.


Look . . . by now, you should know enough about me to know who you're dealing with.





Were you recently a Christian? Why do you blatantly demonstrate that you are trying to wedge-in what anyone in their right mind knows as nonsense?



I will easily recant any of my previous posts if you can convince me to do so.


Seriously.

No. I've never been a God believer. At least not in the typical sense of God as a being, let alone omni-this and omni-that...

(And Santa Claus is fiction. Can we agree on that and move on?)

As for omnipotence and omniscience, people shouldnt even reason about those concepts. We can all "say the words" of their definitions. But who really even what they really mean, or imply. I claim nonsense is embedded in the DNA of this whole discussion.

 

[PsychoSarah]

You want the God who can make an omelette without breaking eggs.

Is that too much to ask???

I don't want any specific trait in a deity. I am just saying that an all powerful and all good deity would make an omelette without breaking any eggs, so to speak, because it would want to, and it was able to.

I reject the idea that any deity could possibly exist that is both all powerful and all good; but I do not feel that this is a rejection of deities entirely nor do I feel that it makes something lesser to not have both of these traits. Especially I feel that the complete benevolence is overrated in value.

 

[RDKirk]

I don't want any specific trait in a deity. I am just saying that an all powerful and all good deity would make an omelet without breaking any eggs, so to speak, because it would want to, and it was able to.

You're basically saying that God should be a "helicopter parent," and that being a helicopter parent is the best way to raise children who will become adults who can make proper judgments as adults.

 

[Hetta]

Though it may appear that way to us, God's benevolence may not be defined in the way that our benevolence is. His love may not be the same (some times) as our what our idea of love is. It may appear He doesn't care. What is actually occurring is the unfolding of His plan, which apparently sometimes involves people being raped.

I have a HUGE problem with the perspective that God's plan "sometimes involves people being raped." Huge. To where I would quit Christianity completely if I believed such a thing. Thankfully I don't.

 

[PsychoSarah]

You're basically saying that God should be a "helicopter parent," and that being a helicopter parent is the best way to raise children who will become adults who can make proper judgments as adults.

No, I am not. All I am saying is that no deity that is both all powerful and all good exists, period. I never stated that sort of deity would be better than the actual possibilities.

 

[RDKirk]

No, I am not. All I am saying is that no deity that is both all powerful and all good exists, period.

You seem to be defining "good" as "nice."

 

[quatona]

You're basically saying that God should be a "helicopter parent," and that being a helicopter parent is the best way to raise children who will become adults who can make proper judgments as adults.

I don´t find the parent-god analogy to be omitting core differences, to begin with: parents aren´t the creators of the world, parents aren´t omnipotent, aren´t omniscient and aren´t omnibenevolent (actually the very traits that are the premises of the PoE argument).

 

[quatona]

You seem to be defining "good" as "nice."

...whereas you seem to prefer leaving it undefined.

 

[Deidre32]

I have a HUGE problem with the perspective that God's plan "sometimes involves people being raped." Huge. To where I would quit Christianity completely if I believed such a thing. Thankfully I don't.

One of the many things that I found/find troublesome about the Abrahamic 'God.'

 

[Hetta]

It looks like you might be quitting soon.

That kind of loving, positive and uplifting response is another reason I think about quitting.

Think about it. I would rather be raped than drowned in a flood.

I would rather neither.

ETA: I just realized that you weren't being ironic. The name/avatar were misleading. Never mind.

 

[Hetta]

nm

 

[Hetta]

parents aren´t the creators of the world, parents aren´t omnipotent, aren´t omniscient and aren´t omnibenevolent.

Shhhh. Some of our children haven't figured this out yet.

 

[PsychoSarah]

You seem to be defining "good" as "nice."

Then define it then.

 

[PsychoSarah]

It looks like you might be quitting soon.

Think about it. I would rather be raped than drowned in a flood.

I don't know, a violent rape can lead to death, and drowning would be faster and wouldn't leave you damaged for life.

 

[Loudmouth]

You're basically saying that God should be a "helicopter parent," and that being a helicopter parent is the best way to raise children who will become adults who can make proper judgments as adults.

We are saying that God should be a responsible parent. Would a responsible parent allow their child to die a horrible and painful death when all they had to do is snap their fingers to end their suffering? Would a responsible parent watch as their 3 year old child wandered onto a busy street?

How can they learn to be proper adults when they never make it to adulthood?

 

[abacabb3]

The "problem of evil" is not a problem, it is a false construct. No one says the nature of the creature is reflection by its creation. Case in point, an architect is not anymore of a house than God is evil because what he created has evil in it.

 

[durangodawood]

The "problem of evil" is not a problem, it is a false construct. No one says the nature of the creature is reflection by its creation. Case in point, an architect is not anymore of a house than God is evil because what he created has evil in it.

I agree that the "problem of evil" is not problem.... for different reasons.

But for sure a creation is a reflection of its creator. Author's intent is absolutely evident. In a building, in a song, in a painting, in a novel.

And carelessness in a creation is evident too.