The Preservation of the Holy Scriptures

[Hammster]

That's a very good question, I'm sure you can look it up because you are very smart. I'm not interested in that question so I'm not going to look it up for you.

Of course you're not interested. It would destroy your argument.

 

[SaintJoeNow]

Of course you're not interested. It would destroy your argument.

You are a wonderful person, very smart and an excellent Christian with wonderful concern for everybody, I think it's great how you are helping everybody to encourage them to be strong in faith like you are.

You don't have to believe the King James Bible is the Bible, you can believe it is an erroneous version of the Bible just like all the other erroneous versions, and you can pick whichever version you like the best and use that version along with any other version you like to try to hear from God. It is very possible and very likely that you will hear from God through all of those erroneous versions along with the King James Version which you may think is equally or more erroneous than other versions.

That does not make you a bad person or a bad Christian, and it does not make you a better Christian than me or others who believe God preserved the scriptures without error in the version commissioned by the man He set up to rule over England, King James.

It's really not something worth fighting over. You can't take away my King James Bible. You can have all your versions, I don't want to take them away from you. If I had them, I would throw them in the trash because the smoke from burning papers is stinky so you can keep them and I hope God speaks to you loud and clear through them. Enjoy, and have a blessed day.

 

[SaintJoeNow]

Of course you're not interested. It would destroy your argument.

You are a very intelligent and wonderful Christian.

 

[Hammster]

You are a wonderful person, very smart and an excellent Christian with wonderful concern for everybody, I think it's great how you are helping everybody to encourage them to be strong in faith like you are.

You don't have to believe the King James Bible is the Bible, you can believe it is an erroneous version of the Bible just like all the other erroneous versions, and you can pick whichever version you like the best and use that version along with any other version you like to try to hear from God. It is very possible and very likely that you will hear from God through all of those erroneous versions along with the King James Version which you may think is equally or more erroneous than other versions.

That does not make you a bad person or a bad Christian, and it does not make you a better Christian than me or others who believe God preserved the scriptures without error in the version commissioned by the man He set up to rule over England, King James.

It's really not something worth fighting over. You can't take away my King James Bible. You can have all your versions, I don't want to take them away from you. If I had them, I would throw them in the trash because the smoke from burning papers is stinky so you can keep them and I hope God speaks to you loud and clear through them. Enjoy, and have a blessed day.

Like I said, the KJV is an okay translation, despite the added words and changes from the original argument. I believe God can speak through it, despite its deficiencies.

 

[SaintJoeNow]

So the KJV has ADDED words? I guess that's one more reason not to use it.

Thank you for your response. You are a great Christian doing a great job here!

 

[Hammster]

You are a very intelligent and wonderful Christian.

The jury is still out on that one

 

[Hammster]

Thank you for your response. You are a great Christian doing a great job here!

No problem. Just trying to point out the failures of the KJV only crowd.

 

[tall73]

I answered you in Post 91.

But you didn't answer the question.

Do you have any Bible verse that says you would have the perfect Bible in English?

Do you have any reason to exclue 1,500 years of people from the earlier Scripture text you promised?

What evidence do you present that the KJV actually is perfect, the right manuscripts, etc.?

You have not given satisfactory answers to any of those.

 

[tall73]

It's really not something worth fighting over. You can't take away my King James Bible. You can have all your versions, I don't want to take them away from you. If I had them, I would throw them in the trash because the smoke from burning papers is stinky so you can keep them and I hope God speaks to you loud and clear through them. Enjoy, and have a blessed day.

If you didn't want to talk about it you could have left the thread ages ago. This is a discussion forum. Folks are going to discuss.

Now the basis for you saying that you have the perfect word of God in English is that God preserved His word. But you don't think anyone else for 1,500 years had God's word...didn't He promise them too?

And how do you know yours is the perfect one? You have no other similar manuscript in history.

What we do see is that God preserved His word, but there are variations in about 2 percent of the text. All the doctrines are still there. Many of those variations are rather minor and may not even be something translatable. It can be debated which is the original reading in those 2 percent. However, you assurance that yours is the exact perfect one, when you can find no other like it in history is quite questionable.

If your argument was that God preserved His word throughout history, then we could see similar texts to the KJV throughout history. We don't see that. However, your argument is that God ignored His church for 1,500 years and refused to give them a perfect Bible, but then decided to get around to it in 1611, only in English. And for that you have essentially zero evidence.

 

[SaintJoeNow]

Like I said, the KJV is an okay translation, despite the added words and changes from the original argument. I believe God can speak through it, despite its deficiencies.

I think it's great that you believe God can speak through deficient translations in all the deficient versions, and I'm glad you know His voice. If you know His voice, you are my brother and we will be in heaven with Jesus, forever changed to be like Him, serving Him in perfect harmony in Heaven. Isn't that wonderful?

 

[brinny]

No problem. Just trying to point out the failures of the KJV only crowd.

Thank you kindly for sharing your opinion, brother.

 

[Hammster]

I think it's great that you believe God can speak through deficient translations in all the deficient versions, and I'm glad you know His voice. If you know His voice, you are my brother and we will be in heaven with Jesus, forever changed to be like Him, serving Him in perfect harmony in Heaven. Isn't that wonderful?

Agreed. He spoke (and speaks) to many using the demonstrable deficient KJV, as He does so through modern, more accurate (though not perfect) translations.

 

[SaintJoeNow]

If you didn't want to talk about it you could have left the thread ages ago. This is a discussion forum. Folks are going to discuss.

Now the basis for you saying that you have the perfect word of God in English is that God preserved His word. But you don't think anyone else for 1,500 years had God's word...didn't He promise them too?

And how do you know yours is the perfect one? You have no other similar manuscript in history.

I think it's great that you want to discuss this issue. You are a wonderful man and a tremendous disciplined scholar with a lot of great things to say. I am not going to argue with you, and I have clearly stated why (in post 91 and many other times in many other posts) As far as I'm concerned, there really is nothing to argue about. If you want to believe all versions are erroneous, that's fine. That does not make you a bad Christian. My beloved and much missed mentor believed all versions are erroneous and he was the most godly man and the most wonderful Christian I have ever been honored to keep company with. Why don't you discuss with Hammster until Jack Koons comes back to entertain your scholasticism? I think you and Hammster will have a lot in common on the issue. I don't want to fight about it.

 

[Hammster]

Thank you kindly for sharing your opinion, brother.

I'm never short of those.

 

[brinny]

Originally Posted by brinny View Post
Thank you kindly for sharing your opinion, brother.

I'm never short of those.

I noticed.

It's lovely that we can all share our opinions on how God did or did not preserve His Word that He vowed would never ever return to Him void, amen? Even now, as we speak, His Word can always defend itself, for it is GOD Who mooooves through it, amen?

There was a quote i noticed just yesterday and i had to chuckle at its profundity:

"Defend the Bible? I would as soon defend a lion! Unchain it and it will defend itself." ~C. H. Spurgeon

Thank you kindly.

 

[PrincetonGuy]

Dr. S. Franklin Logsdon, who wrote the preface for the NASB, also had no problem with the King James Bible. His comments after comparing differences between the NASB and the KJV were these:

"I must under God renounce every attachment to the New American Standard Version....I'm afraid I'm in trouble with the Lord....We laid the groundwork; I wrote the format; I helped interview some of the translators; I sat with the translators; I wrote the preface...I'm in trouble. I can't refute these arguments (referring to the arguments presented in "Which Bible" Which Bible Is God's Word?: Gail Riplinger: 9780963584588: Amazon.com: Books it's wrong; it's terribly wrong; it's frighteningly wrong; and what am I going to do about it?....you can say the Authorized Version (KJV) is absolutely correct."

This is just another of the thousands of lies that the KJO crowd is circulating about translations of the Bible. Here is the truth from the publishers of the NASB, The Lockman Foundation,

The Board of Directors of The Lockman Foundation launched the New American Standard Bible translation work in the late 1950’s following the completion of the Amplified New Testament. Dr. S. Franklin Logsdon was acquainted with Dewey Lockman, president of The Lockman Foundation, prior to Mr. Lockman’s death in 1974. Mr. Logsdon was never a member of the Board of Directors, nor was he an employee of The Lockman Foundation. Mr. Logsdon had no authority to hire employees or translators for the Foundation, to set policy, to vote, to hold office, to incur expenses, etc. He cannot be considered ‘co-founder’ of the NASB, nor part of the Lockman Foundation, nor part of the NASB translation team, nor did he write the forward to the NASB. According to our records, he was present at board meetings on two occasions—once to hear a travel report; and once to deliver an ‘inspirational thought.’

Mr. Logsdon last wrote to Mr. Lockman in fall of 1973 that he was moving to Florida. Mr. Lockman replied that he was surprised and saddened by his decision to leave the area. Mr. Lockman passed away in January of 1974, and no further correspondence was exchanged between Frank Logsdon and The Lockman Foundation. He resided in Florida until his passing some years ago.
​

 

[SaintJoeNow]

Agreed. He spoke (and speaks) to many using the demonstrable deficient KJV, as He does so through modern, more accurate (though not perfect) translations.

Wow, it's great that you are getting closer to God's accurate word. Keep trying to find it and I know you will get it. Even if you stop trying to find it, I know you will have it entirely accurate in heaven and we can talk about it full of joy there with Jesus when we are changed into His likeness forever. Isn't that a wonderful thought? You and me in heaven with Jesus? Wouldn't it be wonderful if we can bring some more people to see how they can be saved from Hell and know NOW that their sins are forgiven and heaven is their home?
Until you have God's accurate word, on Earth or in heaven, please pray for me, brother. I'm sure you mean well for me and for everybody else here. I covet your prayers. Satan wants to tear us to pieces. I pray God protects you always for His own name's sake as His child.

I believe God has given me His word in English, and I thank God for that. I'm sorry if this bothers you. I don't want to fight with you about it. You will never convince me that the King James Bible is not the word of God. You will never convince me that any other version is the word of God. Please don't try to make me fight about it. We are brothers in Christ, are we not? Are we not commanded to love each other? I can tolerate you believing the King James Bible is not the word of God, can you tolerate me believing it is the word of God?

 

[Hammster]

I noticed.

It's lovely that we can all share our opinions on how God did or did not preserve His Word that He vowed would never ever return to Him void, amen? Even now, as we speak, His Word can always defend itself, for it is GOD Who mooooves through it, amen?

There was a quote i noticed just yesterday and i had to chuckle at its profundity:

"Defend the Bible? I would as soon defend a lion! Unchain it and it will defend itself." ~C. H. Spurgeon

Thank you kindly.

 

[Hammster]

Wow, it's great that you are getting closer to God's accurate word. Keep trying to find it and I know you will get it. Even if you stop trying to find it, I know you will have it entirely accurate in heaven and we can talk about it full of joy there with Jesus when we are changed into His likeness forever. Isn't that a wonderful thought? You and me in heaven with Jesus? Wouldn't it be wonderful if we can bring some more people to see how they can be saved from Hell and know NOW that their sins are forgiven and heaven is their home?
Until you have God's accurate word, on Earth or in heaven, please pray for me, brother. I'm sure you mean well for me and for everybody else here. I covet your prayers. Satan wants to tear us to pieces. I pray God protects you always for His own name's sake as His child.

I believe God has given me His word in English, and I thank God for that. I'm sorry if this bothers you. I don't want to fight with you about it. You will never convince me that the King James Bible is not the word of God. You will never convince me that any other version is the word of God. Please don't try to make me fight about it. We are brothers in Christ, are we not? Are we not commanded to love each other? I can tolerate you believing the King James Bible is not the word of God, can you tolerate me believing it is the word of God?

I've not tried to convince you that it's not the word of God, even though you've tried to convince us that other translations are not. So please don't make that false accusation against me.

 

[SaintJoeNow]

This is just another of the thousands of lies that the KJO crowd is circulating about translations of the Bible. Here is the truth from the publishers of the NASB, The Lockman Foundation,

The Board of Directors of The Lockman Foundation launched the New American Standard Bible translation work in the late 1950’s following the completion of the Amplified New Testament. Dr. S. Franklin Logsdon was acquainted with Dewey Lockman, president of The Lockman Foundation, prior to Mr. Lockman’s death in 1974. Mr. Logsdon was never a member of the Board of Directors, nor was he an employee of The Lockman Foundation. Mr. Logsdon had no authority to hire employees or translators for the Foundation, to set policy, to vote, to hold office, to incur expenses, etc. He cannot be considered ‘co-founder’ of the NASB, nor part of the Lockman Foundation, nor part of the NASB translation team, nor did he write the forward to the NASB. According to our records, he was present at board meetings on two occasions—once to hear a travel report; and once to deliver an ‘inspirational thought.’

Mr. Logsdon last wrote to Mr. Lockman in fall of 1973 that he was moving to Florida. Mr. Lockman replied that he was surprised and saddened by his decision to leave the area. Mr. Lockman passed away in January of 1974, and no further correspondence was exchanged between Frank Logsdon and The Lockman Foundation. He resided in Florida until his passing some years ago.
​

You are distorting Dr. Logsdon's words in order to say he lied.
So you are calling the late Dr. Logsdon a liar, and using that as an excuse to ignore the tens of thousands of changes and deletions between only two editions of the NASB one year apart.

This is typical of people like Dr. White, ignore evidence, twist words, and trash the character of the person you disagree with.