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The pre-advent Investigative Judgment of Daniel 7

Discussion in 'Denomination Specific Theology' started by BobRyan, Dec 20, 2018.

  1. DaDad

    DaDad Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Well I don't particularly agree, but then again I don't disagree. -- Perhaps it would help if "church" doctrines (ALL church doctrines) agreed with Scripture, -- including the SDA's. Unfortunately churches are run by man and thus are fallible, some more than others, but ALL are fallible.

    And so we should depend on a careful rendering of Scripture, and in many cases it helps to go back to the Original text, rather than using a "nearest match" in a different language (i.e., English translation).

    Or possibly the SDA doctrines supersede Scripture, which would make EVERYONE ELSE WRONG, -- including me ... and even Jesus.

    DaDad
     
  2. BobRyan

    BobRyan Junior Member

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    The issue is not "what do you think of such-and-such denomination" the issue on this thread is Daniel 7 and in the post of historic dates and events... what do you know about those dates/events and how they line up with Daniel 7.

    No matter the list of pejoratives and name-calling or accusations - the basic facts/claims in the posts should be addressed at some point.
     
  3. BobRyan

    BobRyan Junior Member

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    All Bible timelines are contiguous - so then the 70 years of Daniel 9:1-8 are all contiguous. And the 70 weeks of years (490 years) at the end of Daniel 9 are all contiguous -- each time line remains in tact.

    Your proposal in your post requires imagining that Bible timelines can be sliced-diced and spread all over history with bits and pieces of them dropped hear and there as per whim or fancy.
     
  4. liberty of conscience

    liberty of conscience created anew

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    Truth.

    All (every single one of the) time prophecies in scripture are indeed 'contiguous', and not a single one not so.

    [1] Genesis prophecy (Genesis 1-2; Isaiah 46:9-10; Matthew 13:35) of six days and the 7th of rest - being "a day with the LORD is as a thousand years" (2 Peter 3:8; Psalms 90:4), and 1000 years as a watch in the night (4 watches at night, leading into day, Jesus is the Sun of Righteousness, after 4,000 years of the darkness of sin, He came to deliver from sin), thus 6,000 years and the 7,000th (final 1,000) of earth's battle with sin is over (Revelation 20:1-7) - see TinyUpload.com - best file hosting solution, with no limits, totaly free

    There are numerous typological aspects as well of this.

    [2] Noah's prophecy of "an hundred and twenty years" years for the flood, coming at the death of Methuselah, unto the very "day" - 120 years (Genesis 6:3, 7:11,13)

    [3] Joseph's "seven years of great plenty" (Genesis 41:29) and "seven years of famine" (Genesis 41:27) - which were 14 years together back to back, consecutive (Genesis 41:17-36,47,53-54)

    [4] Moses' prophecy of wandering the desert in relation to spying the land of Canaan - 40 days = 40 years; (Numbers 14:34)

    [5] David's prophecy of "three days" of pestilence - 3 days exactly (2 Samuel 24:13-25; 1 Chronicles 21:12-30)

    [6] Isaiah's prophecy unto Hezekiah "add unto thy days fifteen years" - and Hezekiah died after that time of exactly 15 years (2 Kings 20:6,21)

    [7] Isaiah's prophecy unto Moab, "three years" - fulfilled (Isaiah 16:14)

    [8] Isaiah's prophecy unto Kedar "within a year" - fulfilled (Isaiah 21:16)

    [9] Isaiah's prophecy unto Tyre - 70 years; (Isaiah 23:15,17).

    [10] Jeremiah's prophecy of the captivity - 70 years; (2 Chronicles 36:21; Jeremiah 25:11,12, 29:10; Daniel 9:2)

    [11] Jeremiah's prophecy of the death of Hananiah "this year" - fulfilled (Jeremiah 28:16-17)

    [12] Ezekiel's prophecy of the sins of Israel and Judah in the siege [Israel] "three hundred ninety days", and [Judah] "forty days" - 390 days = 390 years, and 40 days = 40 years, for a grand total of 430 days = 430 years (Ezekiel 4:4-8)

    [13] Daniel's prophecy of "a time and times and the dividing of time" (Daniel 7:25), "a time, times, and an half" (Daniel 12:7) which combined with Revelation's prophecy of "forty and two months" (Revelation 11:2), "a thousand two hundred and threescore days" (Revelation 11:3), "a thousand two hundred and threescore days" (Revelation 12:6), "a time, and times, and half a time" (Revelation 12:14), "forty and two months" (Revelation 13:5), also known as "the times of the Gentiles" (Luke 21:24), "the Gentiles" (Revelation 11:2) - which are all the same timeframe of 1,260 years, which is a subsection of 2,300 of Daniel 8:13,14,26; Revelation 9:15, 10:6, 14:6-7.

    [14] Daniel's prophecy of the "two thousand and three hundred days" - 2,300 years encompassing the whole of the time from the start in the Persian-Median Kingdom, through Grecia, into Roman Kingdom, and it's divisions, the uprising of the little horn to power, its deadly wound, and the entering in of Christ Jesus into the Most Holy Place with the Father and the opening of the books in Heaven - Daniel 8:13,14,26; Revelation 9:15, 10:6, 14:6-7.

    [15] Daniel's prophecy of the "seventy weeks" (Daniel 9:24) which is subdivided into "seven weeks" (Daniel 9:25a) and "threescore" (Daniel 9:25b) "and two weeks" (Daniel 9:25c), of which the final "one week" (70th; Daniel 9:27) is again subdivided into two parts, "in the midst of the week" (Daniel 9:27), being exacly 3 1/2 and 3 1/2 days of the final week - 490 years, being subdivided into 49 years, 434 years = 483 years with 7 years left, half of the 7 final years being fulfilled and confirmed by Jesus from Baptism (Messiah the Prince) unto Crucifixion ("cut off"), which is 3 1/2 years from AD 27 to AD 31 ("causing the sacrfice and oblation to cease", which was "after threescore" "and two weeks" (Daniel 9:26), which has no 'gaps'), and the final portion of the final week, being confirmed by the apostles/disciples in Jesus' stead (John 20:21; Hebrews 2:3, etc) unto the toning of Stephen, in AD 34. This 70 weeks is merely a portion ("determined" (Daniel 9:24), for Jesus is the "certain" saint (the wonderful numberer; Daniel 8:13, which sections, "determines" (Acts 17:26) the times unto man from the greater time (Genesis) alotted) see also Daniel 8:1,15,16,17,19, 27, 9:21,22, "vision", "understand", "Gabriel", "at the first", etc) of the greater time prophecy of 2,300 (Daniel 8:13,14,26; Revelation 9:15, 10:6, 14:6-7).

    [16] Daniel's prophecy of the "a thousand two hundred and ninety days" - being 1,290 years, ending the same time as the 1,260 (Daniel 12:11)

    [17] Daniel's prophecy of "the thousand three hundred and five and thirty days" - being 1,335 years, beginning the same time as the 1,290, and ending the same time as the 2,300 (Daniel 12:11; Revelation 14:13, "blessed")

    [18] Jonah's "forty days" - Ninevah was given this exact time to repent or perish (Jonah 3:4)

    [19] Jesus' prophecy of "three days" - in three days Jesus was resurrected (Matthew 16:21; Luke 18:33, 24:7,21; John 2:19-20, etc), no 'gaps' (inspite of all those erroneous wednesday/thursday crucifictionists convoluted ideas)

    [20] Jesus' prophecy of his final days of ministry, "I do cures to day and to morrow, and the third day I shall be perfected (finished, completed)" and "to day, and to morrow, and the day following" - which refers to his last 3 days of workings of miracles among the people before being taken captive - (Luke 13:32-33).

    [21] Jesus prophecy of "this generation" - within 40 years exactly Jerusalem and the Temple were destroyed (Matthew 23:36; Luke 11:50,51)

    [22] Revelation's prophecy of the "ten days" - 10 years (Revelation 2:10)

    [23] Revelation's prophecy of the "five months", "those days" - Pentecost to Trumpets (Revelation 9:5,6,10; (type) Luke 1:24; (type) Genesis 7:24, 8:3; Leviticus 23:15-25)

    [24] Revelation's prophecy of the "an hour, and a day, and a month, and a year" - the exact date of the day of Atonement, with the golden Altar in the Most Holy Place; (Revelation 9:13-15)

    [25] Revelation's prophecy of the "three days and a half" - 3 1/2 years (Revelation 11:9,11)

    [26] Revelation's prophecy of the "thousand years" (Revelation 20:1,2,3,4,5,6,7) - is literally a thousand years (Daniel 7:22; Isaiah 24:22; as it is the final "day" of the cosmic Week, foretold in Genesis; 2 Peter 3:8; Psalms 90:4; Isaiah 46:9-10; Matthew 13:35, etc)

    Also those time prophecies, even when divided into smaller portions, are always 'contiguous':

    [1] Joseph's "seven years of great plenty" (Genesis 41:29) and "seven years of famine" (Genesis 41:27) - which were 14 years together back to back, consecutive with no 'gaps' (Genesis 41:17-36,47,53-54)

    [2] Jeremiah's prophecy of captivity (2 Chronicles 36:21), in which it says "threescore and ten" years. There is no 'gap' between the "threescore" and the "ten" years.

    [3] Ezekiel's prophecy of the sins of Israel and Judah, though given in two portions, [Israel] 390 & [Judah] 40, are a total of 430 years. There is no 'gap' betwen the "three hundred and ninety" and "forty" years.

    [4] Daniel's prophecy of the "seventy weeks" (Daniel 9:24) which is subdivided into "seven weeks" (Daniel 9:25a) and "threescore" (Daniel 9:25b) "and two weeks" (Daniel 9:25c) (which has no 'gaps' between "threescore" and "two"), of which the final "one week" (70th; Daniel 9:27) is again subdivided into two parts, "in the midst of the week" (Daniel 9:27), being exacly 3 1/2 and 3 1/2 days of the final week - 490 years, being subdivided into 49 years, 434 years = 483 years with 7 years left, half of the 7 final years being fulfilled and confirmed by Jesus from Baptism (Messiah the Prince) unto Crucifixion ("cut off"), which is 3 1/2 years from AD 27 to AD 31 ("causing the sacrfice and oblation to cease", which was "after threescore" "and two weeks" (Daniel 9:26), which has no 'gaps'), and the final portion of the final week, being confirmed by the apostles/disciples in Jesus' stead (John 20:21; Hebrews 2:3, etc) unto the stoning of Stephen, in AD 34. This 70 weeks is merely a portion ("determined" (Daniel 9:24), for Jesus is the "certain" saint (the wonderful numberer; Daniel 8:13, which sections, "determines" (Acts 17:26) the times unto man from the greater time (Genesis) alotted) see also Daniel 8:1,15,16,17,19, 27, 9:21,22, "vision", "understand", "Gabriel", "at the first", etc) of the greater time prophecy of 2,300 (Daniel 8:13,14,26; Revelation 9:15, 10:6, 14:6-7). And for those which erroneously teach that the 7 final years (of the 70 weeks) take place at the end of time ('separated' from the first 69 weeks by over 2 millenia (2,000 years)), they generally accept 'no gaps', even though the final week of the 70 weeks is divided into two, with "in the midst of the week".

    They are inconsistent across the board in Daniel 9.

    [bonus] Even the "years" foretold in the days of Elijah, was exactly 3 years and six months, which went from the two times of rains, early (3 years) and latter (6 months): 1 Kings 17:1 "these years"; 1 Kings 18;1, "third year"; Luke 4:25 "three years and six months"; James 5:17 "space of three years and six months".
     
    Last edited: Dec 28, 2018
  5. YeshuaFan

    YeshuaFan Well-Known Member

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    Sda accord to Ellen White the same status as the Apostle John/peter/Paul in regards to doctrines and practices!
     
  6. YeshuaFan

    YeshuaFan Well-Known Member

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    Jesus came and was put to death 483 year after the decree, so the final 7 years are still yet to happen!
    The prophecy of Daniel concerns Israel right before the Second Coming Event happens!
     
  7. liberty of conscience

    liberty of conscience created anew

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    John, Peter, Paul had the same 'status ... in regards doctrines and practices' as Daniel, Ezekiel, Jeremiah, Isaiah, Samuel, & Moses. :swoon:
     
  8. liberty of conscience

    liberty of conscience created anew

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    Indeed. Now, let's look more specifically at the exact when of said "decree" (Daniel 9:24-25). We need a starting date don't we? Where, oh where shall we find it do you think?

    Jesus being put to death, is the "cut off" of Daniel 9:26, which took place "in the midst of the (final, 70th) week" of the 70 weeks, wherein Jesus brought an end to the "sacrifice and oblation" as Hebrews, etc bodly declare. Therefore, based on that alone, you are in error, and further you are in error, and do not have a single leg to stand upon, since there is not a single time prophecy in the scriptures which is non-contiguous, and that is specifically evidenced here - The pre-advent Investigative Judgment of Daniel 7

    Feel free to actually quote scripture otherwise.

    As has been shown to you on numerous occasions, Jesus is the true Israel (Matthew 2:13-15; Hosea 11:1; Hebrews 2:13; Isaiah 8:16,18; Genesis 32:28; John 16:33; Revelation 3:21) and the everlasting covenant was made with Him, and thus those in Him (Hebrews 3:6; Jeremiah 31:33; Hebrews 8:10, 10:16, etc)

    The 'jews' en masse (in spite of what your 'pastor' may have told you) are not looking to build any temple in earthly palestine, etc (Ezekiel's Temple is the church itself, the body of Christ Jesus, made of living stones, living pillars, living windows, living altars, and Paul says this on numerous occasions, as does John in the Revelation). Those which call themselves 'jews' are not looking to re-institute sacrifice, for most 'jews' today want nothing to do with it, and have endless traditions already in place instead, and there is no knowledge of the Levitical line long since scattered to the winds, mixed and mingled, there is no priestly, nor high preistly office, there is no Ark of the covenant (still buried from the days of Jeremiah).

    Don't believe me? Contact the US Embassy in Jerusalem, contact the archeological community therein, contact the leading 'Rab' in Jerusalem, contact the local 'synagogues', 'churches' and 'mosques' therein and speak with anyone, and ask them if there is any such plans, ever. You will get a resounding, "No."

    Modern so-called 'evangelical' baptist have swallowed Jesuit futurism (Link & Link & Link) (along with a bunch of other Romish doctrines) and live in an imaginary realm of fiction concerning this and they constantly have to hype themselves up every few weeks with some new phantastical date.

    Genesis 40:8; 2 Peter 1:20 says that it is God which interprets His own prophecy, and therefore, what is the name of your 'pastor'? Is it JEHOVAH Elohiym? If not, a bit of advice, stick with what God did say in His word, not merely repeat what you heard at the stump.
     
    Last edited: Dec 28, 2018
  9. PROPHECYKID

    PROPHECYKID Veteran Supporter

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    Actually it did not. His death made the provision for the atonement of sins. Everyone's sins was not automatically atoned for when Jesus died. The bible says in 1 John 1:9 that if you confess your sins he is faithful and just to forgive you and cleanse you from unrighteousness and 1 John 2 says that if you sin you have an advocate who is Jesus Christ.

    Plus your statement is very arrogant. Who are you that God cannot investigate? If you consider yourself to be a part of the house of God didn't you know that judgement begins with you?

    1Pe 4:17 For the time is come that judgment must begin at the house of God: and if it first begin at us, what shall the end be of them that obey not the gospel of God?
     
  10. BobRyan

    BobRyan Junior Member

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    Amen. It does not say "if Jesus died on the cross then you are forgiven of sin - so don't confess, don't repent.."
     
  11. BobRyan

    BobRyan Junior Member

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    Creative writing is fascinating.

    Ellen White was a prophet and has the status that the Bible says a prophet has. Sola scriptura matters.
     
  12. YeshuaFan

    YeshuaFan Well-Known Member

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    There were all inspired by God, unlike EW!
     
  13. YeshuaFan

    YeshuaFan Well-Known Member

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    Great tribulation and Antichrist yet to come, and THEN end of Daniel prophecy is to be fulfilled!
     
  14. YeshuaFan

    YeshuaFan Well-Known Member

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    God placed ALL of my sins upon Jesus, and he bore IN FULL the penalty for my sins, so once saved by Him, he is my High priest, and the Holy Spirit seals me unto the day of full redemption as in glorification, so eternally secured. There will be NO judgment made by god ever against his own saved in regards to loss of salvation, just in regards to loss of rewards!
     
  15. YeshuaFan

    YeshuaFan Well-Known Member

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    There have been NO Prophets/Apostles given by God after John the Apostle died off!
     
  16. BobRyan

    BobRyan Junior Member

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    You say that as if you are God and know what you have done every minute of the last 2000 years. Why not "at least" reference something in the Bible so it is not all "you quoting you"?? Why do that?
     
  17. BobRyan

    BobRyan Junior Member

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    Nope.

    All Bible timelines are contiguous so that they have meaning. This is true - without exception.
     
  18. BobRyan

    BobRyan Junior Member

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    His death is the "atoning sacrifice" 1 John 2:2 NIV that the Lev 16 "Day of Atonement" chapter depicts in the death of the sin offering. But the "Day of Atonement" does not end with the death of the sin offering because the work of the High Priest is also needed. In fact that work "is the main point" according to Hebrews 8:1
     
  19. BobRyan

    BobRyan Junior Member

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    As much as I do enjoy your exercises in "creative writing" - try to stick to the topic of this thread as much as possible.
     
  20. BobRyan

    BobRyan Junior Member

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    And not ONLY for your sins but "for the sins of the WHOLE WORLD" 1 John 2:2 --

    Bible details matter.

    OSAS fails the test of scripture.
     
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