The pre-advent Investigative Judgment of Daniel 7

[YeshuaFan]

I am certainly not in favor of A-mill but they made up for it by being historicists which was the correct model in the days of Christ for predicting the first coming of Christ based on Daniel 9. Once a method is proven to be correct -- stick with it.



Not according to the proven method of real life. As we see in Daniel 9:1-8 regarding Jeremiahs 70 year prophecy, and the Dan 7 490 year (70 weeks of years) prophecy only historicist works. So we can see those prophecies today and that same historicist model continues to give the right result.

Go with what works ... so then less creative writing will be needed.

Jesus entered into Jerusalem 483 weeks of the prophecy of Daniel, and the remaining 7 weeks/years are to be fulfilled still at end of this age!

 

[YeshuaFan]

Again, we see by your exegesis why so much of your theology is wrong.
It has its roots in Replacement Theology which is totally wrong!

Romans 2 DOES NOT explain the Bema Seat of Christ.

However Romans 14:10-17 says...……
“For we will all stand before God’s judgment seat. . . . So then, each of us will give an account of himself to God” .

2nd Corth. 5:10 tells us, ………..
“We must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ, so that each of us may receive what is due us for the things done while in the body, whether good or bad.”

The judgment seat of Christ, therefore, involves believers giving an account of their lives to Christ after they were saved.

The judgment seat of Christ does not determine salvation; that was determined by Christ’s sacrifice on our behalf and our faith in Him. All of our sins are forgiven, and we will never be condemned for them. We should not look at the judgment seat of Christ as God judging our sins, but rather as God rewarding us for our lives.

Then as for Daniel 7 being the Bema seat...….NO!

Daniel 7 speaks of the "SAINTS" which are the JEWS.

The error of replacement theology has the Church replaceing the Jews and that is completely non-Biblical.

I do see Spiritual Israel as being the church, but, the big error is when we see Israel as always meaning church in Bible, and also when we say that God never again will deal with the Jews regarding Jesus!

 

[YeshuaFan]

True -- and all judgment deals with the exact deeds done. As recorded in the books of heaven --

Romans 2
4 Or do you think lightly of the riches of His kindness and tolerance and patience, not knowing that the kindness of God leads you to repentance? 5 But because of your stubbornness and unrepentant heart you are storing up wrath for yourself in the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God, 6 who will render to each person according to his deeds:

2 Cor 5
10 For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ, so that each one may be recompensed for his deeds in the body, according to what he has done, whether good or bad.

And what is the "reward" for "bad deeds"?
Rom 6:23 "the wages of sin is death"

Maybe per EW, but per the inspired Apostle Paul, bad works means forfeiture of eternal rewards, but that person still would be saved into heaven!

 

[BobRyan]

Again, we see by your exegesis why so much of your theology is wrong.
It has its roots in Replacement Theology which is totally wrong!

Until you read Daniel 7 and Romans 2.

Dan 7
The Ancient of Days

9 “I kept looking
Until thrones were set up,
And the Ancient of Days took His seat;
His vesture was like white snow
And the hair of His head like pure wool.
His throne was ablaze with flames,
Its wheels were a burning fire.
10 “A river of fire was flowing
And coming out from before Him;
Thousands upon thousands were attending Him,
And myriads upon myriads were standing before Him;
The court sat,
And the books were opened.

11 Then I kept looking because of the sound of the boastful words which the horn was speaking;...

The Son of Man Presented
13 “I kept looking in the night visions,
And behold, with the clouds of heaven
One like a Son of Man was coming,
And He came up to the Ancient of Days
And was presented before Him.

Dan 7:
21 I kept looking, and that horn was waging war with the saints and overpowering them 22 until the Ancient of Days came and judgment was passed in favor of the saints of the Highest One, and the time arrived when the saints took possession of the kingdom.

Romans 2 DOES as does Daniel 7 explain the Bema Seat of Christ.
===========================
======================

Details in Daniel 7

1. the judgment of vs 9-10 happens after the fall of the 4th empire in the list given in Daniel 7. So then after the fall of pagan Rome - which is long after the fall of Jerusalem in 70 A.D -- and before the second coming

2. The judgment of Daniel 7 involves "judgment passed in favor of the saints"

3. Persecution of the saints on Earth continues until that judgment completes.

4. The second coming happens after the judgment completes.

5. Myriads and myriads in the courtroom in heaven -- the court sits, the books are opened and judgment takes place.

6. All apocalyptic timelines are contiguous as are all prophetic timelines in the Bible -- apocalyptic or not.

7. All apocalyptic timelines use "day for year" expansion just as does Daniel 9 and the 70 weeks that are 490 years not 490 solar days.

Maybe per EW, but per the inspired Apostle Paul, bad works means forfeiture of eternal rewards, but that person still would be saved into heaven!

For someone not familiar with Daniel 7 and Romans 2 it may look like these chapters were written by Ellen White - but they were not.

 

[BobRyan]

I do see Spiritual Israel as being the church,

True

 

[BobRyan]

, the reformers did great in area of salvation, but pretty much kept intact A mil theology in regards to eschatology!

I am certainly not in favor of A-mill but they made up for it by being historicists which was the correct model in the days of Christ for predicting the first coming of Christ based on Daniel 9. Once a method is proven to be correct -- stick with it.

Jesus entered into Jerusalem 483 weeks of the prophecy of Daniel, and the remaining 7 weeks/years are to be fulfilled still at end of this age!

That would be the hatchet chop of a 490 year Bible timeline -- not allowed.

the 483 years ended at Christ's baptism in 27 A.D.
then 3.5 years later he was "cut off" - crucified.
Then 3.5 years later the probation given to Israel ended.

6. All apocalyptic timelines are contiguous as are all prophetic timelines in the Bible -- apocalyptic or not.

7. All apocalyptic timelines use "day for year" expansion just as does Daniel 9 and the 70 weeks that are 490 years not 490 solar days.

 

[YeshuaFan]

Until you read Daniel 7 and Romans 2.

Dan 7
The Ancient of Days

9 “I kept looking
Until thrones were set up,
And the Ancient of Days took His seat;
His vesture was like white snow
And the hair of His head like pure wool.
His throne was ablaze with flames,
Its wheels were a burning fire.
10 “A river of fire was flowing
And coming out from before Him;
Thousands upon thousands were attending Him,
And myriads upon myriads were standing before Him;
The court sat,
And the books were opened.

11 Then I kept looking because of the sound of the boastful words which the horn was speaking;...

The Son of Man Presented
13 “I kept looking in the night visions,
And behold, with the clouds of heaven
One like a Son of Man was coming,
And He came up to the Ancient of Days
And was presented before Him.

Dan 7:
21 I kept looking, and that horn was waging war with the saints and overpowering them 22 until the Ancient of Days came and judgment was passed in favor of the saints of the Highest One, and the time arrived when the saints took possession of the kingdom.

Romans 2 DOES as does Daniel 7 explain the Bema Seat of Christ.
===========================
======================

Details in Daniel 7

1. the judgment of vs 9-10 happens after the fall of the 4th empire in the list given in Daniel 7. So then after the fall of pagan Rome - which is long after the fall of Jerusalem in 70 A.D -- and before the second coming

2. The judgment of Daniel 7 involves "judgment passed in favor of the saints"

3. Persecution of the saints on Earth continues until that judgment completes.

4. The second coming happens after the judgment completes.

5. Myriads and myriads in the courtroom in heaven -- the court sits, the books are opened and judgment takes place.

6. All apocalyptic timelines are contiguous as are all prophetic timelines in the Bible -- apocalyptic or not.

7. All apocalyptic timelines use "day for year" expansion just as does Daniel 9 and the 70 weeks that are 490 years not 490 solar days.



For someone not familiar with Daniel 7 and Romans 2 it may look like these chapters were written by Ellen White - but they were not.

Daniel refers to Jewish Israel of end times, and Chapter 7 is same as revelation 20!

 

[YeshuaFan]

I am certainly not in favor of A-mill but they made up for it by being historicists which was the correct model in the days of Christ for predicting the first coming of Christ based on Daniel 9. Once a method is proven to be correct -- stick with it.



That would be the hatchet chop of a 490 year Bible timeline -- not allowed.

the 483 years ended at Christ's baptism in 27 A.D.
then 3.5 years later he was "cut off" - crucified.
Then 3.5 years later the probation given to Israel ended.

6. All apocalyptic timelines are contiguous as are all prophetic timelines in the Bible -- apocalyptic or not.

7. All apocalyptic timelines use "day for year" expansion just as does Daniel 9 and the 70 weeks that are 490 years not 490 solar days.

The last 7 weeks of Daniel still yet to be fulfilled!

 

[BobRyan]

Daniel refers to Jewish Israel of end times, and Chapter 7 is same as revelation 20!

That speculation is not supported by the details in the chapter -- in fact the details you are ignoring in Daniel 7 outright refute your suggestion.

 

[BobRyan]

The last 7 weeks of Daniel still yet to be fulfilled!

Not even close - since all Bible prophetic timelines are contiguous as we already proved in the case of Daniel 9:1-10..

Bible details matter.

 

[BobRyan]

“Facts do not cease to exist because they are ignored.”
― Aldous Huxley, Complete Essays 2, 1926-2

How true. If only I get get a few more people on board with that.