The Pluto Issue

[CabVet]

What's this then?

Jude 13 Raging waves of the sea, foaming out their own shame; wandering stars, to whom is reserved the blackness of darkness for ever.

That was a little after Adam's time ... but God's translators took care of it.

Sorry, planets are not stars.

 

[Lucy Stulz]

planets as stars and fowled bats. It all gets so hard to be a literalist.

 

[durangodawood]

Seems SO simple.

The Bible was written in an age when knowledge of many natural phenomena was superficial.

 

[Strathos]

Um, like I said, that verse actually does refer to planets, in fact the Greek term used there is the very same term from which the English word "planet" derives from.

 

[Split Rock]

"Star" in the Bible can mean: star (Matthew 2:2), planet (Jude 13), or asteroid (Revelation 8:11).

Binary stars?

How about "earth" in the bible can mean: "land?" Why did the perfected and guided writers of the KJV1611 not properly translate "wandering stars" to "planets" in Jude or to something more appropriate in Revelations? Afterall, you claim that since bats are referred to as "fowl" in GEN that it must be a different kind of bat, rather than just a different definition of "fowl."

 

[Split Rock]

Um, like I said, that verse actually does refer to planets, in fact the Greek term used there is the very same term from which the English word "planet" derives from.

I'm sure it does, but I am arguing with AVET over his selective use of literal translation of scripture. He insists that the KJV1611 bible is specially perfect in its translation into english and thus terms like "earth" cannot be referring to "land" (eg. the flood) and the term "fowl" cannot be referring to winged animals of any type (eg. bats in GEN).

 

[pgp_protector]

Sorry, planets are not stars.

Also using the First Definition (That AV seems to like doing, ignoring other possible definitions)

wandering present participle of wan·der (Verb)
Verb
1) Walk or move in a leisurely, casual, or aimless way.
20 Move slowly away from a fixed point or place: "please don't wander off again".

So they don't Wonder either as it's not a leisurely , casual or aimless way.

aim·less Adjective Without purpose or direction.

so they're neither wondering or stars.

 

[Standing_Ultraviolet]

Whether you like the new definition of "planet" or not, it's a term that badly needed to be defined scientifically at some point, so that it would have a specific meaning in a time when we're discovering extraterrestrial bodies that the ancient Greeks couldn't have had in mind when they were calling moving pinpoints of light "wandering stars".

I kind of like it, though. It goes a long way toward avoiding a solar system that ends up with planets the majority of whose names are strings of numbers and letters.

 

[Davian]

Well, your Wham-O Magic Planet Finder™ shoulda done a better job.

Clyde Thompson got too much credit, didn't he?

And imagine Mr. Lowell, lending his initials to something he thought was another planet.

You say that, after your fellow creationist "pwned" those scientists using the Magic Window(tm)?

 

[AV1611VET]

And yet God didn't provide any documentation as to what a Planet is.
Or did Adam forget to write that down in English?

< science bologna >

Sorry, planets are not stars.

I'm going to end this conversation by agreeing with PGP on a technical note.

You're right, God didn't provide any documentation as to what a planet is that would suit the ... um ... academically-elite here.

He sends us instead, to explain it to you guys.

[youtube]8Vx1BTBhg4c[/youtube]

 

[AV1611VET]

It all gets so hard to be a literalist.

Um ... it does? have you tried it?

 

[AV1611VET]

How about "earth" in the bible can mean: "land?"

If you're talking about the Flood, maybe God didn't want to see you guys harping on why Noah was aboard the Ark for a year, or why birds had to board the Ark, or why the drowned just didn't vacate the area, or why the Ark was even built, or ...

You know? Occam's razor and all?

Why did the perfected and guided writers of the KJV1611 not properly translate "wandering stars" to "planets" in Jude or to something more appropriate in Revelations?

So you could whine the word didn't exist until the 1630's? therefore the KJB was written much later?

Don't you guys do that with the word "steel" in the Bible?

Afterall, you claim that since bats are referred to as "fowl" in GEN that it must be a different kind of bat, rather than just a different definition of "fowl."

Leviticus, chief -- Leviticus 11.

 

[AV1611VET]

Also using the First Definition (That AV seems to like doing, ignoring other possible definitions)

wandering present participle of wan·der (Verb)
Verb
1) Walk or move in a leisurely, casual, or aimless way.
20 Move slowly away from a fixed point or place: "please don't wander off again".

So they don't Wonder either as it's not a leisurely , casual or aimless way.

aim·less Adjective Without purpose or direction.

so they're neither wondering or stars.

I'll say this much ... if this is you guys' ideas of interpreting the Bible literally, I'd stay an allegorist, if I were you.

 

[Lucy Stulz]

I'll say this much ... if this is you guys' ideas of interpreting the Bible literally, I'd stay an allegorist, if I were you.

So when faced with the kind of stuff you commonly do you are offended?

You hypothesized a FOWLED BAT fer crying out loud!

As if the wise translators working hand in glove with God couldn't even conceive of a phrase that would describe an animal that no longer existed?

 

[Lucy Stulz]

Um ... it does? have you tried it?

Yeah, when I was about 5 years old.

 

[Lucy Stulz]

You're right, God didn't provide any documentation as to what a planet is that would suit the ... um ... academically-elite here.

He sends us instead, to explain it to you guys.
]

I personally believe that God could find more appropriate ways to communicate with people who made it past high school.

I suspect you are working overtime to stroke your ego if you think the stuff you peddle has value to "academically elite".

 

[Mr Strawberry]

He sends us instead, to explain it to you guys.

Wait...you are a messenger of God? Oh my goodness, let me savour that one.

Poor old God. He just can't get the staff these days.

 

[CabVet]

< science bologna >

I'm going to end this conversation by agreeing with PGP on a technical note.

You're right, God didn't provide any documentation as to what a planet is that would suit the ... um ... academically-elite here.

He sends us instead, to explain it to you guys.

Did you have to explain it to your academically-elite pastor too? He has one PhD more than I do, so he probably needs to hear the explanation twice.

EDIT: He sent you? I will take this with a grain of salt then:

Um ...

Psalm 118:8 It is better to trust in the LORD than to put confidence in man.

 

[AV1611VET]

As if the wise translators working hand in glove with God couldn't even conceive of a phrase that would describe an animal that no longer existed?

You can't, either -- so quit whining about those who at least do come up with something.

Until you come up with something better, I'll go with either avian bat or fowled bat.

 

[AV1611VET]

I personally believe that God could find more appropriate ways to communicate with people who made it past high school.

... Solid aurum.

Isaiah 48:5 I have even from the beginning declared it to thee; before it came to pass I shewed it thee: lest thou shouldest say, Mine idol hath done them, and my graven image, and my molten image, hath commanded them.
6 Thou hast heard, see all this; and will not ye declare it? I have shewed thee new things from this time, even hidden things, and thou didst not know them.
7 They are created now, and not from the beginning; even before the day when thou heardest them not; lest thou shouldest say, Behold, I knew them.
8 Yea, thou heardest not; yea, thou knewest not; yea, from that time that thine ear was not opened: for I knew that thou wouldest deal very treacherously, and wast called a transgressor from the womb.