The Patterns And Parallels Of Daniel.

[Just The Facts]

Hi

Quote
How sad it is, that on a false man made teaching, that results in the violation of Rev 22: 18, 19. by changing days into years where that is NOT supported by scripture, if it is then please show me the verses dear Brother Just The Facts?
End Quote


Hi No I have changed nothing.........you on the other hand deny Daniels plain words and just add Kingdom after kingdom to the very plain words of God.......................this is soooo sad.

Please show me how Daniel 9 is 490 years and not 490 weeks.

 

[Prophecy Countdown]

Hello, J T F.
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Just The Facts.
Quotation from Prophecy Countdown.
”How sad it is, that on a false man made teaching, that results in the violation of Rev 22: 18, 19. by changing days into years where that is NOT supported by scripture, if it is then please show me the verses dear Brother Just The Facts?”
End Quote
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Hi No I have changed nothing.........you on the other hand deny Daniels plain words and just add Kingdom after kingdom to the very plain words of God.......................this is soooo sad.
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You say that you quote ‘have changed nothing.’ Dear JTF, it is impossible to change NOTHING because if there is NOTHING, there is NOTHING that can be changed.

Well JTF, IF your statement above is TRUTHFUL and I mean a big IF, you will be able to prove it by backing up ALL your following remarks, EACH with a Bible, verse or two, to substantiate them as biblical.

Dear reader
JTF’s many personal quotations are in need of biblical verification, otherwise they remain meaningless, note that it is within these personal interpretations that he joins two separate kingdoms into one relying on his OWN words, placing them above that of the Bible’s.

JTF, quotations yet to be verified!
1. “These are the same kingdoms Both denoted as Iron”
”7:7: After this I saw in the night visions, and behold a fourth beast, dreadful and terrible, and strong exceedingly; and it had great iron teeth:it devoured and brake in pieces, and stamped the residue with the feet of it:”

2. ”You are ignoring what is said they both are the fourth kingdom on Earth The both are strong as iron and the Both break into pieces the Other Kingdoms before them.” Unquote.

3. JTF quote.
“The First beast of Rev 13 is Rome the deadly head wound is the Fall of that Kingdom in 476AD.”

4. JTF quote.
“It was like Rome's deadly wound was healed and it was reborn.”

5. JTF quote.
”Charlemagne would also disagree he clearly claimed to be Roman Emperor of the West. In fact I believe they had a name for the successive kingdoms that followed.............................Now what was that name................................OH YA……………………….. THE HOLY ROMAN EMPIRE.”

6. JTF quote.
“Out of the fourth beast/Rome comes10 kingdoms/horns.”

7. JTF quote.
“In other words he destroyed their Kingdoms and established the first of seven peeks of power(the other seven horns 10-3=7) of the Holy Roman Empire.”

8. JTF quote.
“What we have is Seven PEAKS OF POWER. The Seven peaks of Power of the Holy Roman Empire or the healed beast/Kingdom.”

“Dan 2:[43] As you saw the iron mixed with miry clay, so they will mix with one another in marriage, but they will not hold together, just as iron does not mix with clay.”

9. JTF quote.
“This is just what the Kings of the Holy Roman Empire do through marriage they try and hold the Empire together but it does not hold. Sometimes it is strong and sometimes it is weak it has seven Peaks or hills of power.”

10. JTF quote.
“Later in Revelation this two horned lamb is referred to as the False prophet.”

11. JTF quote.
“Revelation is the telling of the kingdoms that would rule during the 2000 years.”

12. JTF quote. “We are told in Daniel and Rev that this Kingdom will rule for 1260 years after the deadly wound.”

13. JTF quote. “After this Happens we will see the Final Version of the Holy Roman Empire …………Who is the King of the North……………….Who will build his Palace at Jerusalem …….who will sit in that temple and show himself as God.”
“The king of the North is the revised Roman Empire/ Holy Roman Empire.”

14. JTF quote. “This new Conquering religion (that is a religion that is spread through war and violence and murder of those who do not agree) of the Kings of the North (Holy Roman Empire)”

15. JTF quote. ”Centuries later as the church suffered under the torture and murder of the Roman persecutions as it cried in pain Satan came again offerring control of the kingdom of the Devil (ie Rome) and we all know what happened next.”

16. JTF quote. “The beast of Rev 13 is Rome.”
“Revelation makes this crystal clear.”

17. JTF quote. “The Wound heals and the kingdom comes back as the Holy roman Empire.”

18. JTF quote.
“ALL OTHER DREAMS AND PROPHECY fit within the four Kingdoms described in Daniel 2: All other beasts in Daniel and revelation fit within these four Kingdoms.”

19. JTF quote. “It is very clear that the partly clay partly iron is a part of the fourth kingdom.”

20. JTF quote. “There is nothing after the fourth kingdom It the later days of the fourth kingdom the kingdom of God will be set up.”

21. JTF quote. ”You are ignoring what is said they both are the fourth kingdom on Earth The both are strong as iron and the Both break into pieces the Other Kingdoms before them.”

22. Just the Facts, quote.
“ This Then goes to the feet partly of clay and partly Iron. The feet also represent a stage in Rome ie:the fourth Kingdom.”

23. Just The Facts, quote.
“Do they exists as one continuous government or do they take the form of Several governments or Kingdoms. Are they always strong or are they also weak do they exist as one continuous Kingdom or Power or do they have peaks of Power sometimes strong followed by weak times then another peak of strength.”

24. Just the Facts, makes his own personal view.
Quote.
“All these doctrines that go from Rome to end times, step by almost 2,000 years of History and are just not in line with the promise of God. All is revealed to the Prophets.”

25. Just The Facts, QUOTE.
“ What you need to do is Look at what Followed the Deadly wound to Rome in 476AD ………….Which is the Holy Roman Empire………………..the Claimed Kingdom of God on Earth. Do you not think if some Kingdom was going to claim to be the promised kingdom ofn Earth God would tell us of this Kingdom therough the prophets. That is what rev is a warning against the kingdom that claims it is the Kingdom of God.” Unquote.

26. Just The Facts, quote.
"[27] And I, Daniel, was overcome and lay sick for some days; then I rose and went about the king's business; but I was appalled by the vision and did not understand it."
”So Now Daniel asks another Question because he still does not understand. He wants to know when Messiah will be Born and what will be the end of Jerusalem's desolations and punishment…………. as the 70 Years of the prophecy of Jeremiah was almost over. He wanted to know what every Jewish person wanted to know. When would the promise to Abraham and Isaac and Jacob be fulfilled the promise to The house of Judah and the House of Jacob or Joseph.” Unquote.
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Just The Facts, quote. “.........you on the other hand deny Daniels plain words and just add Kingdom after kingdom to the very plain words of God.......................this is soooo sad.”
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Prove your 26 biblically unsubstantiated, therefore unsound interpretations.
By reading the words of Daniel, he makes your above statements appear absurd.

 

[Prophecy Countdown]

You unsuccessfully try and make a connection of two separate kingdoms into one based on YOUR OWN WORDS then accuse me of not following Daniel’s words?
Since when were YOU called the Prophet Daniel or God?

King Nebuchadnezzar, also had your problem so he made the statue out of gold, maybe you should try the same type of thing by turning the feet of the ‘KINGDOM DIVIDED, MADE OF IRON AND POTTER’S CLAY’ that you refuse to recognise into SOLID IRON and like the king, see how far you get!

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Just The Facts, quote.
”Please show me how Daniel 9 is 490 years and not 490 weeks.” Unquote.
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O yes, here we go again. We have the same old lead up question from a false unbiblical premise of Daniel, supposedly asking about.
JTF Quote “So Now Daniel asks another Question because he still does not understand. He wants to know when Messiah will be Born” Unquote.
Which is nothing more than an added construct, an imposition ADDED BY YOU and NOT FOUND IN THE BIBLE!
A question which Daniel, did NOT ask supposedly about. JTF, quote “WHEN MESSIAH WILL BE BORN” unquote. Is also from YOU!
Based on that none biblical addition you jump over to another false doctrine about the ‘490 years.’ Two mythical statements made by you and you think they are from Daniel!
So if we read what Daniel, actually says in chapter 9 and at verse 24. it should not be concerned with a question never asked by him. So let’s read it and see.
KJV. Daniel 9: 24. “SEVENTY WEEKS are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy.”
NKJV
“SEVENTY WEEKS are determined
For your people and for your holy city,
To finish the transgression,
To make an end of sins,
To make reconciliation for iniquity,
To bring in everlasting righteousness,
To seal up vision and prophecy,
And to anoint the Most Holy.
7620 shabuwa` { shaw-boo’-ah} or shabua` { shaw-boo’-ah} also (fem.) sh^ebu`ah { sheb-oo-aw’}

properly, pass part of 7650 as a denom. of 7651; TWOT - 2318d; n m

AV - week 19, seven 1; 20

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JTF, Bible reference.
[27] And I, Daniel, was overcome and lay sick for some days; then I rose and went about the king's business; but I was appalled by the vision and did not understand it.

Just The Facts quote.” He wants to know when Messiah will be Born and what will be the end of Jerusalem's desolations and punishment…………. as the 70 Years of.”
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Daniel, did NOT ask about quote “WHEN MESSIAH WILL BE BORN.” Unquote.

You made that up, or you were more than likely taught it by someone else Just The Facts, and blindly accepted it out of trust for the person telling it to you, that is why you added it in, yet you say, quote. “ No I have changed nothing.”
You slip it in trying to put words into Daniel’s mouth because on that never asked question you try and lead up to and justify the theory of the ‘490 years’ by asking me about it, and trying to bring it onto this thread. That ‘490 years’ theory is ludicrous and has been proven so biblically.

Why don’t you look and read what Daniel, actually says for a change before making additional assumptions based on what others feed to you about Daniel, supposedly wanting to know. Quote ‘WHEN MESSIAH WILL BE BORN.’ Unquote.

THAT IS adding words to scripture in contravention of Rev 22: 18, 19.
You need to backup your personal statements JTF!
Maranatha.

Prophecy Countdown

 

[Just The Facts]

Hi

You are being ridiculous.

I have already shown verses for each thing I have said. you on the other hand keep dodging the main point.

You claim it is me adding things when it is you. Sorry I am not looking at your right hand I am watching your left hand your continued attempts to change the subject and draw the conversation away from the main point will not work.

You say there are four other Kingdoms after the legs of Iron.

Show where these other Kingdoms are in Daniel 2:

They are not there you insert them.

Daniel 2 makes it clear that the feet and toes are part of the fourth Kingdom.

As I have already pointed out after each new Kingdom in Daniel 2 He says And Then shall arise.

Thou art this head of gold. 39: And after thee shall arise another kingdom inferior to thee, and another third kingdom of brass, which shall bear rule over all the earth.40: And the fourth kingdom shall be strong as iron: forasmuch as iron breaketh in pieces and subdueth all things: and as iron that breaketh all these, shall it break in pieces and bruise. 41: And whereas thou sawest the feet and toes, part of potters' clay, and part of iron, the kingdom shall be divided;

The feet and toes are part of the fourth Kingdom it is not separated as four new kingdoms or even one new kingdom it is clearly explained as part of the fourth kingdom.. ..........................a different time of the fourth Kingdom where it is only strong sometimes Daniel 7 explains this time as a time of ten Kingdoms inside the fourth kingdom which matches with Daniel 2 in that these Kings try and stay strong by marrying their children into each others families.

You are adding that doctrine of men in where it is not in the text.

So please do show these other four kingdoms in Daniel 2:

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

From The Interlinear Translation Bible.
Dan 10: 1. “In the first year of Cyrus king of Persia, a thing was revealed to Daniel, whose name was called Belteshazzar. The thing was true and A GREAT CONFLICT, he understood the thing, and understanding of the chezev.”

Now please remember Daniel 7: 21, 25. Daniel 8: 24, 26, and Daniel 10: 1. That is, so far as w e have studied, where the war is mentioned and ties the chapters within the chezev together as a progression that ‘concerns the time of the end,’ as Gabriel, indicates from Dan 7 right through to Dan 12.
And of course Daniel, had just been given the progression and expansion of the CHEZEV, only this time the number of 70 weeks were right in front of him, broken down by weeks until the last week then down to the last 3 ½ days.

No wonder after he realised the facts about A GREAT CONFLICT, he was sick for three weeks.
Daniel 10: 2, “In those days I Daniel was mourning three full weeks.
3. I ate no pleasant bread, neither came flesh nor wine in my mouth, neither did I anoint myself at all, till three whole weeks were fulfilled.”

Hi Prophecy C. How do you view Daniel 11 since all of it comes to an end in Daniel 12? If, as some say, Daniel 11 concerns Antichous, that is a loooooong time for a time times half a time

Daniel 12:6 And [one] said to the man clothed in linen, who [was] above the waters of the river, "How long shall the fulfillment of these wonders [be?"] 7 Then I heard the man clothed in linen, who [was] above the waters of the river, when he held up his right hand and his left hand to heaven, and swore by Him who lives forever, that [it shall be] for a time, times, and half [a time;] and when the power of the holy people has been completely shattered, all these [things] shall be finished.

 

[Prophecy Countdown]

Hello dear Just The Facts.

JTF quote.
“Hi
You are being ridiculous.
I have already shown verses for each thing I have said. you on the other hand keep dodging the main point.” Unquote.
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As they say ‘offence is the best defence’ Just The Facts.
Aren’t you the one that is quote. “keep dodging the main point?” Unquote.

You have not shown the biblical verses that would verify your 26 interpretations, simply because they are not in the Bible, or on this thread, that is why I have asked you to verify them with scripture several times.
Here is your fourth chance to put up or withdraw your statements on the grounds that you are unable to comply with my simple request to vindicate your statements!

Dear reader
Just The Facts, joins two separate kingdoms into one relying on his own words.

1. “These are the same kingdoms Both denoted as Iron”
”7:7: After this I saw in the night visions, and behold a fourth beast, dreadful and terrible, and strong exceedingly; and it had great iron teeth:it devoured and brake in pieces, and stamped the residue with the feet of it:”

2. ”You are ignoring what is said they both are the fourth kingdom on Earth The both are strong as iron and the Both break into pieces the Other Kingdoms before them.” Unquote.
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Dear Just The Facts, you say four kingdoms then you say ‘both are the fourth?’
If ‘BOTH are the fourth?’
‘both,’ that makes two.
Let’s see GOLD, one. SILVER, two. BRASS, three. Here’s quote’ ‘both,’ IRON, four. Divided kingdom of iron and potter’s clay = 5. Yet you say there is only four.
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3. Just The Facts quote.
“The First beast of Rev 13 is Rome the deadly head wound is the Fall of that Kingdom in 476AD.” Unquote.
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Please verify the last quote numbered 3 with a Bible, verse or two to prove your interpretation?
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4. JTF quote.
“It was like Rome's deadly wound was healed and it was reborn.” Unquote.
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Please verify with a Bible verse or two to prove your last interpretation?
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5. JTF quote.
”Charlemagne would also disagree he clearly claimed to be Roman Emperor of the West. In fact I believe they had a name for the successive kingdoms that followed.............................Now what was that name................................OH YA……………………….. THE HOLY ROMAN EMPIRE.” Unquote.
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Please verify with a Bible. verse or two to prove your last interpretation?
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6. JTF quote.
“Out of the fourth beast/Rome comes10 kingdoms/horns.”

7. JTF quote.
“In other words he destroyed their Kingdoms and established the first of seven peeks of power(the other seven horns 10-3=7) of the Holy Roman Empire.” Unquote.
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You are loosely quoting Dan 7: 8. I considered the horns, and, behold, THERE CAME UP AMONG THEM ANOTHER LITTLE HORN, before whom THERE WERE THREE of the first horns plucked up by the roots: and, behold, in this horn were eyes like the eyes of man, and a mouth speaking great things.
Your statement number 7 is erroneous because it is based on a mathematical equation which is incorrect.
10 horns THERE CAME UP AMONG THEM ANOTHER LITTLE HORN 10 + 1 = 11 - three uprooted = 8. Not 7 as you suggest Just The Facts.
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8. JTF quote.
“What we have is Seven PEAKS OF POWER. The Seven peaks of Power of the Holy Roman Empire or the healed beast/Kingdom.”
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JFT Bible verse.
“Dan 2:[43] As you saw the iron mixed with miry clay, so they will mix with one another in marriage, but they will not hold together, just as iron does not mix with clay.”
9. JTF quote.
“This is just what the Kings of the Holy Roman Empire do through marriage they try and hold the Empire together but it does not hold. Sometimes it is strong and sometimes it is weak it has seven Peaks or hills of power.” Unquote.
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Please, at least show the reader a biblical verse or two that at least verifies your interpretation?
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10. JTF quote.
“Later in Revelation this two horned lamb is referred to as the False prophet.” Unquote.
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Where does the Bible, state that ‘the two horned lamb is referred to as the false prophet?’
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11. JTF quote.
“Revelation is the telling of the kingdoms that would rule during the 2000 years.” Unquote.
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Where in the Bible, is that above last remark?
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12. JTF quote. “We are told in Daniel and Rev that this Kingdom will rule for 1260 years after the deadly wound.” Unquote.
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How do you make the ‘1260 days’ into years? Please show using the Bible, the verses that give you permission to do that?
How do you fit quote ‘1260 years’ unquote, into 2300 ereb boqer?

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13. JTF quote. “After this Happens we will see the Final Version of the Holy Roman Empire …………Who is the King of the North……………….Who will build his Palace at Jerusalem …….who will sit in that temple and show himself as God.”
“The king of the North is the revised Roman Empire/ Holy Roman Empire.” Unquote.
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Please show the biblical verse that says quote. “The king of the North is the revised Roman Empire/ Holy Roman Empire.”
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14. JTF quote. “This new Conquering religion (that is a religion that is spread through war and violence and murder of those who do not agree) of the Kings of the North (Holy Roman Empire)” Unquote.
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Please use at least ONE verse that states such a thing in your above statement?
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15. JTF quote. ”Centuries later as the church suffered under the torture and murder of the Roman persecutions as it cried in pain Satan came again offerring control of the kingdom of the Devil (ie Rome) and we all know what happened next.” Unquote.
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Please explain above quote. “Devil (ie Rome) with a Bible, verse or two?
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16. JTF quote. “The beast of Rev 13 is Rome.”
“Revelation makes this crystal clear.” Unquote.
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Please show how “The beast of Rev 13 is Rome” with at least one ‘crystal clear’ verse?
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17. JTF quote. “The Wound heals and the kingdom comes back as the Holy roman Empire.” Unquote.
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Please show a verse that clearly states that quote. “The Wound heals and the kingdom comes back as the Holy roman Empire.?”
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[Prophecy Countdown]

The following verse says ‘the kingdom shall be divided.’ The Bible, does not say the 4th iron kingdom would be divided into the kingdom of iron and clay, even though you JTF, would like it to, that is the reason you can’t find a verse that implies that idea.

The iron denotes strength and the clay denotes weakness/division within this kingdom’s make up.
You can insist as much as you like but without any key verse it seems you are stuck JTF.
You have to accept that the Bible, is patient and two thousand years is not long even though to you and think it is.

You simply can’t change years into days by using Ezekiel 4: 1-8 or Numbers 14: 34 as we have discussed or rather I have and you have remained silent on that issue.

Daniel 2: 41. And whereas thou sawest the feet and toes, part of potters’ clay, and part of iron, the kingdom shall be divided; but there shall be in it of the strength of the iron, forasmuch as thou sawest the iron mixed with miry clay.
42. And the toes of the feet part of iron, and part of clay, the kingdom shall be partly strong, and partly broken.
43And whereas thou sawest iron mixed with miry clay, they shall mingle themselves with the seed of men: but they shall not cleave one to another, even as iron is not mixed with clay.
44.And IN THE DAYS OF THESE KINGS SHALL THE GOD OF HEAVEN SET UP A KINGDOM, which shall never be destroyed: and the kingdom shall not be left to other people, but it shall break in pieces and consume all these kingdoms, and it shall stand for ever.
45. Forasmuch as thou sawest that the stone was cut out of the mountain without hands, and that it brake in pieces the iron, the brass, the clay, the silver, and the gold; the great God hath made known to the king what shall come to pass hereafter: and the dream is certain, and THE INTERPRETATION THEREOF SURE.
As I said it does not say anything about the ‘church of Rome’ yet you do in some of your many interpretations.

The Bible, says nothing about the iron kingdom at the legs of iron becoming a divided kingdom or the quote, ‘Holy Roman empire.’
The Bible, says only that the kingdom at the feet of iron/strong and clay/divided in Daniel, chapter two.
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JTF quote.
They are not there you insert them.
Daniel 2 makes it clear that the feet and toes are part of the fourth Kingdom.
JTF quote.
As I have already pointed out after each new Kingdom in Daniel 2 He says And Then shall arise.
Thou art this head of gold. 39: And after thee shall arise another kingdom inferior to thee, and another third kingdom of brass, which shall bear rule over all the earth.40: And the fourth kingdom shall be strong as iron: forasmuch as iron breaketh in pieces and subdueth all things: and as iron that breaketh all these, shall it break in pieces and bruise. 41: And whereas thou sawest the feet and toes, part of potters' clay, and part of iron, the kingdom shall be divided; Unquote.
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Again Dear Brother you make interpretations without a single verse of confirmation.
Verses 39, 40 speak of four kingdoms down to the legs of iron.
Verses 41, 42, 43, speaks of the ‘divided kingdom of iron and clay.’
Verse 44 speaks of an everlasting kingdom.
There is no mention of the divided kingdom as being part of the fourth iron kingdom in the guise of the quote ‘Holy Roman church.’
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JTF quote.

The feet and toes are part of the fourth Kingdom it is not separated as four new kingdoms or even one new kingdom it is clearly explained as part of the fourth kingdom.. ..........................a different time of the fourth Kingdom where it is only strong sometimes Daniel 7 explains this time as a time of ten Kingdoms inside the fourth kingdom which matches with Daniel 2 in that these Kings try and stay strong by marrying their children into each others families.
You are adding that doctrine of men in where it is not in the text.
So please do show these other four kingdoms in Daniel 2: Unquote.
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Your timing is way off form, compared to that of the Bible’s.
Where do you place the LION, BEAR, LEOPARD kingdoms.?

Let’s have another look at what the BIBLE, says and then I will ask you some questions.

I’m going to highlight in capitals to show that there are more kingdoms, then ask my questions.
Now we know that you place all these kingdoms in the following verses within the four empire kingdoms.
It is Daniel 7 that expanse the vision of the king Nebuchadezzar of Daniel 2 at the feet of iron and clay.
Daniel 7: 3. And FOUR GREAT BEASTS CAME UP from the sea, diverse one from another.
4.The FIRST like a LION, and had eagle’s wings: I beheld till the wings thereof were plucked, and it was lifted up from the earth, and made stand upon the feet as a man, and a man’s heart was given to it.
The lion is not Babylon as some claim and if you say it is. I will use the Bible, to dispute that.
5. And behold another beast, A SECOND, like to a BEAR, and it raised up itself on one side, and it had three ribs in the mouth of it between the teeth of it: and they said thus unto it, Arise, devour much flesh.
The bear is not the Medo/Persian empire.

6. After this I beheld, and lo ANOTHER, like a LEOPARD, which had upon the back of it four wings of a fowl; the beast had also four heads; and dominion was given to it.

By the way. The leopard is not the Greek empire and I can prove that fact

7. After this I saw in the night visions, and behold A FOURTH BEAST, DREADFUL AND TERRIBLE, and STRONG EXCEEDINGLY; and it had great iron teeth: it devoured and brake in pieces, and stamped the residue with the feet of it: and it was diverse from all the beasts that before it; and it had ten horns.
The above is not ‘the Holy Roman Church ‘as you claim.

Dan 7: 17. THESE GREAT BEASTS, WHICH ARE FOUR, FOUR KINGS shall arise out of the earth.
None of the above in verse 17 represent past empires as some claim.

Dan 7: 18. But the saints of the most High shall take the kingdom, and possess the kingdom for ever, even for ever and ever.

The following verses speaks of a ‘fourth beast kingdom’ that has the LION’S MOUTH, the BEARS CLAWS. The FOURTH beast looks like a LEOPARD and the DRAGON/SATAN gave him AUTHORITY and POWER.
I have identified the dragon as Satan, using Bible, verses earlier on this thread.

Dan 7: 19.”Then I would know the truth of the FOURTH beast, which was diverse from all the others, exceeding dreadful, whose TEETH IRON, and his NAILS OF BRASS; devoured, brake in pieces, and stamped the residue with his feet;”
All these beasts work together to form up and support the beast with the mortal wound who receives that wound from Jesus, see and read carefully, Gen 3: 15.

Rev 13: 2. And the beast which I saw was LIKE unto A LEOPARD, and HIS FEET were as OF A BEAR, and HIS MOUTH as THE MOUTH OF A LION: and THE DRAGON GAVE HIM HIS POWER, and his seat, and great authority.
How long do these powers have supporting the beast kingdom? Well the beast has only ‘42 months.’
Rev 3: 4. And they worshipped the dragon which gave power unto the beast: and they worshipped the beast, saying, Who is like unto the beast? who is able to make war with him? 5And there was given unto him a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies; and power was given unto him to continue FORTY TWO MONTHS.
That is why in Daniel 12: 12. There is only ‘1335 days’ before a promised blessing is given. See Rev 19: 1 to 10.
That time is mentioned along with Dan 12: 11. Where the abomination business is set up for only ‘1290 days.’

The two witnesses are there for only ‘1260 days’ witnessing and are to be murdered by the beast in the MIDDLE of the LAST week then they are raised 3 ½ days later at trumpet seven, resurrection time folks see Rev 11: 7 to 15.
Dan 9: 27 is speaking 70 last weeks and of that same last week and MIDDLE of the LAST WEEK.

Just as the condensed time record of the last week of the life of Jesus, down to the last hour so time will be condensed down into the last seventy weeks down further until eventually the last week then down into the last 3 ½ days of that last week that brings an end to Satan’s realm at trumpet 7.

 

[Prophecy Countdown]

This is the reason why there are two witnesses.
Deuteronomy 17: 6. At the mouth of two witnesses, or three witnesses, shall he that is worthy of death be put to death; but at the mouth of one witness he shall not be put to death.

The Gentiles, will trample on Jerusalem for ‘42 months’ where God’s people are told to get out of Jerusalem Matt 24: 15, when they see this abomination thing is set up.
The woman is hidden from the serpent for ‘1260 days’ in Rev 12: 6 and verse 14 stated as a ‘time’ = one, ‘times’ = two, and a ‘half’ = ½ = 3 ½ years.
It is the Serpent that wants to sit in the Temple mount, and sets up the IMAGE of the beast in that place. See Isaiah 14: 12 to 17.
These unaltered time spans fit into the 2300 ereb/evening boqer/morning, 6 and a bit years representing the ‘time of the end’ span.
Is there anybody out there that can show prophecy without changing the words in this Book?
I am sick and tired of the countless preterist people that do this and ignore Rev 22: 18, 19.
Well, that felt good, I had better get back to the subject matter.
Dan 7: 20. And of the ten horns that were in his head, and of the other which came up, and before whom three fell; even of that horn that had eyes, and a mouth that spake very great things, whose look was more stout than his fellows.

Dan 7: 21. I beheld, and THE SAME HORN MADE WAR WITH THE SAINTS, and prevailed against them;

Dan 7: 22. Until the Ancient of days came, and judgment was given to the saints of the most High; and the time came that the saints possessed the kingdom.

Dan 7: 23. Thus he said, THE FOURTH BEAST SHALL BE THE FOURTH KINGDOM upon earth, which shall be diverse from all kingdoms, and shall devour the whole earth, and shall tread it down, and break it in pieces.
The beast is only ‘given power for 42 months.’ not 622 years.
Now JTF, if the last verse is the same fourth kingdom from Daniel 2: 40 as you claim along with Daniel 7: 7, 19, 23, who are the kingdoms represented by as the
LION,
BEAR
and LEOPARD?
Also, who is the ‘stout horn?’
Who is the dragon?
Please use Bible, verses to verify your answers.
I will do the same.


Maranatha.

Prophecy Countdown.

 

[Prophecy Countdown]

Hi Prophecy C. How do you view Daniel 11 since all of it comes to an end in Daniel 12? If, as some say, Daniel 11 concerns Antichous, that is a loooooong time for a time times half a time

Daniel 12:6 And [one] said to the man clothed in linen, who [was] above the waters of the river, "How long shall the fulfillment of these wonders [be?"] 7 Then I heard the man clothed in linen, who [was] above the waters of the river, when he held up his right hand and his left hand to heaven, and swore by Him who lives forever, that [it shall be] for a time, times, and half [a time;] and when the power of the holy people has been completely shattered, all these [things] shall be finished.

Hi LittleLambofJesus, you are truly a blessing to me, a breath of fresh air.
How good it is to meet someone that states what the Bible, actually says.

I agree with your statements regarding the time times and a half. I like you, think that 3 ½ years for certain time limited events is made very clear and starting it from way back when, simply won’t fit into that allotted time.
In Daniel 8: 14 “And he said unto me, Unto two thousand and three hundred days; then shall the SANCTUARY BE CLEANSED.”

The only time that the sanctuary can be cleansed is when that abomination is gotten rid of, at trumpet seven at the end of the 1290 days.

The words 2300 Ereb Boqer from Aramaic in which Daniel, was written as you most likely know, is a time period of 6 and a bit years commonly counted as ‘7 years’ in Middle Eastern terms and is the longest time span of all of Daniel’s chezev/visions described within a certain event.
From Aramaic ereb/evening, boqer/morning’ cannot be made into years, not with those wards of ‘ereb boqer.’

So reading that verse and understanding its intent as to what is to occur and how the mount of His holiness at the sides of the North gets polluted by the abomination of desolation (Math 24: 15) spoken of by Daniel 12: 11 as lasting 1290 days.

It must be brought to an end at the end of the 1290 days which also closes the 2300 ereb boqer within which the 1335 of Daniel 12: 12 and the time times and a half also the 42 months of the trampling of Jerusalem along with the two witnesses witnessing for 1260 days then being murdered by the beast in the middle of the last week and left for dead in the city of Jerusalem, after THREE AND A HALF DAYS they are raised at trumpet 7 resurrection time see Rev 11:
That is not a coincidence that they are murdered in the middle of that last week.
I think this verse following is also speaking of the same last week below where the middle of the last week is mentioned.
Daniel 9: 27. And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.
I have only touched on a few of the time factors involved but once they are understood it just speaks volumes as it should when left alone and allowed to.
There is one person that wants to sit in that place and set up that image.
Isaiah 14:12. How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!
Isaiah 14:13. For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I WILL SIT ALSO ON THE MOUNT OF THE CONGREGATION, IN THE SIDES OF THE NORTH.
Isaiah 14:14. I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High.
Isaiah 14:15. Yet thou shalt be brought down to hell, to the sides of the pit.
Isaiah 14:16. They that see thee shall narrowly look upon thee, and consider thee, saying, Is THIS IS THE MAN that made the earth to tremble, that did shake kingdoms; 17. That made the world as a wilderness, and destroyed the cities thereof; that opened not the house of his prisoners?

The place is?
Psalms 48: 1. Great is the LORD, and greatly to be praised in the city of our God, in the mountain of his holiness.
Psalms 48: 2. Beautiful for situation, the joy of the whole earth, is mount Zion, on the sides of the north, the city of the great King.

Dear LittleLambofJesus, I see Daniel 11; as occurring at ‘the time of the end.’
Not only on the basis of your very clear and important point about the time factor but also because of what our Lord, said to Hagar.

I will highlight my points in capitals.

Gen 16: 1Now Sarai Abram’s wife bare him no children: and she had an handmaid, an Egyptian, whose name was Hagar.
2. And Sarai said unto Abram, Behold now, the LORD hath restrained me from bearing: I pray thee, go in unto my maid; it may be that I may obtain children by her. And Abram hearkened to the voice of Sarai.
3. And Sarai Abram’s wife took Hagar her maid the Egyptian, after Abram had dwelt ten years in the land of Canaan, and gave her to her husband Abram to be his wife.

4. And he went in unto Hagar, and she conceived: and when she saw that she had conceived, her mistress was despised in her eyes.

5. And Sarai said unto Abram, My wrong be upon thee: I have given my maid into thy bosom; and when she saw that she had conceived, I was despised in her eyes: the LORD judge between me and thee.

6. But Abram said unto Sarai, Behold, thy maid is in thy hand; do to her as it pleaseth thee. And when Sarai dealt hardly with her, she fled from her face.

7. And the angel of the LORD found her by a fountain of water in the wilderness, by the fountain in the way to Shur.

8. And he said, Hagar, Sarai’s maid, whence camest thou? and whither wilt thou go? And she said, I flee from the face of my mistress Sarai.
9. And the angel of the LORD said unto her, Return to thy mistress, and submit thyself under her hands.

10. And the angel of the LORD said unto her, I WILL MULTIPLY THY SEED EXCEEDINGLY, that it shall not be numbered for MULTITUDE.

11. And the angel of the LORD said unto her, Behold, THOU art WITH CHILD, and shalt bear a SON, and shalt call his name ISHMAEL; because the LORD hath heard thy affliction.

12. And HE WILL BE A WILD MAN; HIS HAND will be AGAINST EVERY MAN, and every man’s hand AGAINST HIM; and HE SHALL DWELL IN THE PRESENCE of ALL his BRETHREN.

Ishmael’s children dwell around about each other.
They have his genetic makeup, they are called ‘wild men,’ even today.
They fight everybody and everybody fights them.
Thanks to Sarah, making a big mistake, we have a 1200 million problem on our hands and the Middle East is going to blow up in our faces, it is already starting.
Is this the beginning of the time of sorrows?

They want what Isaac, was promised.
The fanatics hate the Jewish nation, because they think the promise should have been Ishmael’s, the first son.
Esau the first son missed out to the second Jacob there is nothing odd about that in the Bible.
This is all about that mount, in that city Jerusalem, within that 90 mile by 50 mile piece of land called Israel, The Arabs want it!

The Jews built a wall to protect the Temple, a long time ago, now they build a wall again.
What will they do next? Just wait and look at the news and see Daniel’s prophetic written words being unfolded right in front of our eyes.
Whether we are able to see this is another matter.

 

[Prophecy Countdown]

Let me just slip this point in first about Daniel 11:
Earlier in this thread I said this quote.
“Dan 8: Verse 21. is construed by some as meaning the ‘Greek empire under Alexander the great’ as somehow representing the rough goat.
Those ideas are erroneous, because of the TIME factor, the LOCATION factor, involved and the meaning of the word ‘Grecia.’
‘Grecia.’ is not as some claim as being GREEK in this context.

Daniel 8: 21. And the rough goat is the king of Grecia: and the great horn that is between his eyes is the first king.

GREECE, GREEKS, GRE´CIANS.
The histories of Greece and Palestine are little connected with each other. In Gen. 10:2-5 Moses mentions the descendants of JAVAN as PEOPLING THE ISLES OF THE GENTILES; and when the Hebrews came into contact with the Ionians of Asia Minor, and recognized them as the long-lost islanders OF THE WESTERN MIGRATION, it was natural that they should mark the similarity of sound between JAVAN and Iones. Accordingly the Old Testament word which is GRECIA in Authorized Version GREECE, GREECS, etc., IS IN HEBREW JAVAN Dan. 8:21;

“Greeks was a term used for non-Jewish peoples., meaning Gentile nations,” “A Westerner would fit the above description.”
Bible translators have incorrectly translated the word ‘yavan’ from Aramaic, to represent, ‘Greeks’ yet it refers to the words Gentile nations.”
The word ‘Grecia,’ translated from ‘yavan’ from Aramaic can mean Westerner.

I am certain that the goat from the West in Daniel 8 is the alliance ‘yavan,’ ‘nations of Gentiles’ or can mean ‘Gentile nations’ and they are starting to be pushed by the ram and the above last verse is all to do with this situation.
Which of the two horns representing Medo/Iraq ‘the shorter horn that comes up first’ and then the higher representing Persia/Iran, which ‘comes up last’ Dan 8: 3 on the ram is pushing Daniel 8: 4 against the alliance?
The Higher horn’ that comes up last’ called Persia/Iran on the ram is the one pushing.
If the rough goat attacks from the West Dan 8: 5 and vanquishes the Ram yet the horn on the rough goat the number one power is broken what will happen to the LION?
What will happen to the lion’s wings?

Sorry about it being too long. I had better end there for the moment.
I appreciate speaking with you and I hope we can learn from each other and grow in understanding.
I must explain about what is meant by the word ‘power’ used in Dan 12: 7.
It is interesting but I will have to hit the sack I have a big day tomorrow.
Thank you LittleLambofJesus, for taking the time by making some very interesting points and for asking your questions.

Maranatha.

Your Brother in Christ Jesus.

PC.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Hi Prophecy C. How do you view Daniel 11 since all of it comes to an end in Daniel 12? If, as some say, Daniel 11 concerns Antichous, that is a loooooong time for a time times half a time

Daniel 12:6 And [one] said to the man clothed in linen, who [was] above the waters of the river, "How long shall the fulfillment of these wonders [be?"] 7 Then I heard the man clothed in linen, who [was] above the waters of the river, when he held up his right hand and his left hand to heaven, and swore by Him who lives forever, that [it shall be] for a time, times, and half [a time;] and when the power of the holy people has been completely shattered, all these [things] shall be finished.

Hi LittleLambofJesus, you are truly a blessing to me, a breath of fresh air.
How good it is to meet someone that states what the Bible, actually says.

I agree with your statements regarding the time times and a half. I like you, think that 3 ½ years for certain time limited events is made very clear and starting it from way back when, simply won’t fit into that allotted time.
In Daniel 8: 14 “And he said unto me, Unto two thousand and three hundred days; then shall the SANCTUARY BE CLEANSED.”

The only time that the sanctuary can be cleansed is when that abomination is gotten rid of, at trumpet seven at the end of the 1290 days.

Would you say that is rather "quickly"

Revelation 1:1 A revelation of Jesus Christ, that God gave to him, to shew to his servants what things it behoveth to come to pass in swiftness; [#5034]

{WHAT THINGS} dei <1163> (5904) {MUST} genesqai <1096> (5635) {TAKE PLACE} en <1722>{IN} tacei <5034> {SWIFTNESS:}

Reve 22:20 He who testifies to these things says, "Surely I am coming quickly/swifly [#5035]." Amen. Even so, come, Lord Jesus! tacu <5035> {QUICKLY.}

(Young) Mark 13:20 and if the Lord did not shorten [#2856] the days, no flesh had been saved; but because of the chosen, whom He did choose to Himself, He did shorten the days.

2856. koloboo kol-ob-o'-o from a derivative of the base of 2849; to dock, i.e. (figuratively) abridge:--shorten.2849. kolazo kol-ad'-zo from kolos (dwarf); properly, to curtail, i.e. (figuratively) to chastise (or reserve for infliction):--punish.

Couldn't the apostate jewish rulers be considered "gentiles/uncircumcised", such as the "Flesh" instead of the Heart?

Matt 23:38 "See! Your House is left to you a Wilderness;

Let me just slip this point in first about Daniel 11:
Earlier in this thread I said this quote.
&#8220;Dan 8: Verse 21. is construed by some as meaning the &#8216;Greek empire under Alexander the great&#8217; as somehow representing the rough goat.
Those ideas are erroneous, because of the TIME factor, the LOCATION factor, involved and the meaning of the word &#8216;Grecia.&#8217;
&#8216;Grecia.&#8217; is not as some claim as being GREEK in this context.

Daniel 8: 21. And the rough goat is the king of Grecia: and the great horn that is between his eyes is the first king.

GREECE, GREEKS, GRE´CIANS.
The histories of Greece and Palestine are little connected with each other. In Gen. 10:2-5 Moses mentions the descendants of JAVAN as PEOPLING THE ISLES OF THE GENTILES; and when the Hebrews came into contact with the Ionians of Asia Minor, and recognized them as the long-lost islanders OF THE WESTERN MIGRATION, it was natural that they should mark the similarity of sound between JAVAN and Iones. Accordingly the Old Testament word which is GRECIA in Authorized Version GREECE, GREECS, etc., IS IN HEBREW JAVAN Dan. 8:21;

&#8220;Greeks was a term used for non-Jewish peoples., meaning Gentile nations,&#8221; &#8220;A Westerner would fit the above description.&#8221;

 

[Just The Facts]

H Countdown

Wow you are a dancer.

Just answer the Question

Where are these four other kingdoms in Daniel 2: It is a simple question so why do you keep avoiding it with you lengthy diatribes about how I am adding to Daniel 2:


WHERE ARE THE FOUR OTHER KINGDOMS IN DANIEL 2: SHOW THEM IN SCRIPTURE.

Ok so How do you change the Weeks of Daniel into years.?

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

H Countdown

Wowe you are a dancer.

Just answer the Question

Where are these four other kingdoms in Daniel 2: It is a simple question so why do you keep avoiding it with you lengthy diatrabs about who I am adding to Daniel 2:


WHERE ARE THE FOUR OTHER KINGDOMS IN DDANIEL 2: SHOW THEM IN SCRIPTURE.

Ok so How do you change the Weeks of Daniel into years.?

Hi JTF. I am trying to get the jews to explain that also over here:

http://www.christianforums.com/t2791094-question-for-jews.html

 

[Prophecy Countdown]

H Countdown

Wow you are a dancer.

Just answer the Question

Where are these four other kingdoms in Daniel 2: It is a simple question so why do you keep avoiding it with you lengthy diatribes about how I am adding to Daniel 2:


WHERE ARE THE FOUR OTHER KINGDOMS IN DANIEL 2: SHOW THEM IN SCRIPTURE.

Ok so How do you change the Weeks of Daniel into years.?

Hello JTF.

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JTF quote.
&#8220;H Countdown
Wow you are a dancer.&#8221;
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Not as good at prancing around as you are JTF, I am still waiting for your answers to those now 30 questions I asked of you.
It is now clearly obvious that they were made by you without Bible, backup.
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JTF quote.
&#8220;Just answer the Question
Where are these four other kingdoms in Daniel 2: It is a simple question so why do you keep avoiding it with you lengthy diatribes about how I am adding to Daniel 2:&#8221;
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Let me REPEAT the answer to you AGAIN JTF. NOW THIS TIME, PAY ATTENTION!
Dan 2: 41. And whereas thou sawest the feet and toes, part of potters&#8217; clay, and part of iron, the kingdom shall be divided; but there shall be in it of the strength of the iron, forasmuch as thou sawest the iron mixed with miry clay.

Dan 2: 42. And as the toes of the feet were part of iron, and part of clay, so the kingdom shall be partly strong, and partly broken.

Dan 2: 43. And whereas thou sawest iron mixed with miry clay, they shall mingle themselves with the seed of men: but they shall not cleave one to another, even as iron is not mixed with clay.
Dan 2: 44 AND IN THE DAYS OF THESE KINGS SHALL THE GOD OF HEAVEN SET UP HIS KINGDOM, which shall never be destroyed: and the kingdom shall not be left to other people, but it shall break in pieces and consume all these kingdoms, and it shall stand for ever.

Now Dear JTF, DID GOD, SET UP HIS KINGDOM DURING THE GOLD, SILVER, BRASS AND FOURTH ROMAN KINGDOMS?
Now because you are very shy at answering any of my questions, let me answer it for you as simply as I can so that you can grasp the realty of it, if that is at all possible.

NO, JTF GOD, DID NOT SET UP HIS KINGDOM DURING
THE GOLD KINGDOM.
THE SILVER KINGDOM.
THE BRASS KINGDOM.
OR THE FOURTH ROMAN KINGDOM.

JUST THE FACTS, ARE YOU UP TO SPEED WITH ME ON THIS, DO YOU UNDERSTAND THAT SIMPLE FACT?

So after realising that the God, of Heaven did not set up His kingdom DURING the HISTORIC FOUR KINGDOMS, WE MUSY ELIMINATE THEM AS NOMINEES.

We now have to find out where the FOUR KINGDOMS are to be found, don&#8217;t we JTF.
Are you with me, or am I moving too fast for you? I hope not.
Now you surely MUST realise that the 4 historic kingdoms are no longer here TOGETHER, JTF, unlike the four that are around at the same time when God, sets up His kingdom.
Maybe you are having difficulty with that very simple fact, unlike everyone else reading this.
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JTF quote.
&#8220;WHERE ARE THE FOUR OTHER KINGDOMS IN DANIEL 2: SHOW THEM IN SCRIPTURE.&#8221;
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I guess you are having trouble understanding this simple fact. Here they are, I found them just for you JTF, because as I said earlier &#8216;you forgot that Daniel, is a progression.&#8217;

Daniel 7: 5. And FOUR GREAT BEASTS CAME UP from the sea, diverse one from another.

Daniel 7: 4. The FIRST was like a LION, and had eagle&#8217;s wings: I beheld till the wings thereof were plucked, and it was lifted up from the earth, and made stand upon the feet as a man, and a man&#8217;s heart was given to it.

Daniel 7: 5. And behold ANOTHER BEAST, A SECOND, like to a BEAR, and it raised up itself on one side, and it had three ribs in the mouth of it between the teeth of it: and they said thus unto it, Arise, devour much flesh.

Daniel 7: 6. After this I beheld, and lo ANOTHER, like A LEOPARD, which had upon the back of it four wings of a fowl; the beast had also four heads; and dominion was given to it.

Daniel 7: 7. After this I saw in the night visions, and behold A FOURTH BEAST, dreadful and terrible, and strong exceedingly; and it had great iron teeth: it devoured and brake in pieces, and stamped the residue with the feet of it: and it was diverse from all the beasts that were before it; and it had ten horns.

The LION kingdom, BEAR kingdom, LEOPARD kingdom and FOURTH BEAST kingdom, ARE AROUND AT THE TIME God, sets up His kingdom unlike the past historic kingdoms.

God sets up His kingdom at THE FEET OF IRON AND CLAY where these &#8216;time of the end&#8217; FOUR kingdoms are found in Daniel 7: 5, 6, and 7 and as we have just read. The LION, BEAR and LEOPARD outlive the fourth beast kingdom.
How can these beasts represent past historic kingdoms when the first, a LION the second, a BEAR and the third, a LEOPARD outlive the FOURTH BEAST kingdom?
It&#8217;s the other way around with the past historic empires.
The chronology is different.

Daniel 7: 11. I beheld then because of the voice of the great words which the horn spake: I BEHELD TILL THE BEAST WAS SLAIN, and HIS BODY DESTROYED, and given to the burning flame.

Here is where the lion, bear and leopard kingdoms, outlive the fourth beast power.

Daniel 7: 12. AS CONCERNING THE REST OF THE BEASTS, they had their dominion taken away: YET THERE LIVES WERE PROLONGED for a season and time.
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JTF quote.

&#8221;Ok so How do you change the Weeks of Daniel into years.?

= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
AS I SAID, I DON&#8221;T &#8216;CHANGE THE WEEKS OF DANIEL, INTO YEARS.&#8217;
I never have and never will!
They are to occur at &#8216;the time of the end&#8217; and I have explained that before, so I would suggest that you put a little more effort and attention into what you are reading and that would be applicable to your own poor efforts in regards NOT answering any of my questions!

However if you want to, change the words in the Bible, as you have already demonstrated then you go right ahead.
Now I have answered your questions how about you answering mine?

My kindest regards Just The Facts.

Maranatha.

Prophecy Countdown.

 

[Just The Facts]

Hi

Quote
Let me REPEAT the answer to you AGAIN JTF. NOW THIS TIME, PAY ATTENTION!

Dan 2: 41. And whereas thou sawest the feet and toes, part of potters&#8217; clay, and part of iron, the kingdom shall be divided; but there shall be in it of the strength of the iron, forasmuch as thou sawest the iron mixed with miry clay.

Dan 2: 42. And as the toes of the feet were part of iron, and part of clay, so the kingdom shall be partly strong, and partly broken.

Dan 2: 43. And whereas thou sawest iron mixed with miry clay, they shall mingle themselves with the seed of men: but they shall not cleave one to another, even as iron is not mixed with clay.
Dan 2: 44 AND IN THE DAYS OF THESE KINGS SHALL THE GOD OF HEAVEN SET UP HIS KINGDOM, which shall never be destroyed: and the kingdom shall not be left to other people, but it shall break in pieces and consume all these kingdoms, and it shall stand for ever.

Now Dear JTF, DID GOD, SET UP HIS KINGDOM DURING THE GOLD, SILVER, BRASS AND FOURTH ROMAN KINGDOMS?
Now because you are very shy at answering any of my questions, let me answer it for you as simply as I can so that you can grasp the realty of it, if that is at all possible.
End Quote

Hahahahahahahahahaha there is nothing about four kingdoms in Daniel 2 after the legs of Iron.................The only difference in my belief and yours is I say the feet and Toes are the Ten horns of Daniel 7 and you say they are the four beasts and ten horns.


Quote
Daniel, took the explanation of the king&#8217;s chezev right to the feet of iron and clay, he did not stop at the legs of iron, at the FOURTH METAL EMPIRE he continued on the next kingdom made of IRON AND CLAY then on to another everlasting kingdom, so there are more than just four.
End Quote

Lets do this one point at a time.

As I have stated Over and Over each new kingdom is clearly stated as a new kingdom.

37: Thou, O king, art a king of kings: for the God of heaven hath given thee a kingdom, power, and strength, and glory. 38: And wheresoever the children of men dwell, the beasts of the field and the fowls of the heaven hath he given into thine hand, and hath made thee ruler over them all. Thou art this head of gold. 39: And after thee shall arise another kingdom inferior to thee, and another third kingdom of brass, which shall bear rule over all the earth. 40: And the fourth kingdom shall be strong as iron: forasmuch as iron breaketh in pieces and subdueth all things: and as iron that breaketh all these, shall it break in pieces and bruise.43: And whereas thou sawest iron mixed with miry clay, they shall mingle themselves with the seed of men: but they shall not cleave one to another, even as iron is not mixed with clay.

Now You said

Quote Post #18 page 2
Daniel 2: mentions the last kingdom legs of iron in verse 40.
The explanation depicts another kingdom in verse 41.
End Quote.

Please show in the above verses where it says another.............. a fifth Kingdom before the Kingdom of God. Or in the case of your doctrine a sixth seventh and eighth Kingdom as well.

I do not want to hear you say it is another Kingdom. Show me in the text where it says the feet and toes are another kingdom it says the second thrid and fourth are Another Kingdom. Just so we are Clear ................................not your saying............................... IN THE VERSE................ where does it say ANOTHER kingdom.

 

[Prophecy Countdown]

Hello folks.
How are you today brother Just The Facts, I hope you are well.
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After this post, I’m going to continue Daniel, and as I said at the beginning of this thread ‘I’m really not interested in the preterist historic view’ and I also said that ‘I did not want to get bogged down discussing it.’
So this will be my last reply to any of your comments on this matter.
Because you fail to return any answers.
Head. Gold.
Chest arms. Silver.
Thighs. Brass.
Legs. Iron.

Feet. Divided nation of iron and clay.

Thou art this head of gold.
Dan 2: 39. . And after thee shall arise another kingdom inferior to thee, and another third kingdom of brass, which shall bear rule over all the earth.
Dan 2: 40, And the fourth kingdom shall be strong as iron: forasmuch as iron breaketh in pieces and subdueth all things: and as iron that breaketh all these, shall it break in pieces and bruise.
That took just two verses 39 and 40 to get through the four kingdoms.
Now we come to the ‘divided kingdom’ at the feet, made up of ‘iron and miry clay.’
This ‘divided kingdom takes four verses 41 to 44 to describe.

It’s been a long time since the iron kingdom’s demise and scores of kingdoms have risen since then.

Many kingdoms associated with Israel, in the past or into the future are mentioned in the Bible, for that simple reason.
After many, many centuries we now come to the feet of ‘iron and miry clay’ a ‘Divided kingdom.’
This kingdom is not numbered and is not associated with any historic past kingdoms.
Far too long a time has passed, since the demise of the iron kingdom for that to be a consideration.
This kingdom and those involved within it get a mention in Daniel 7:
However let’s get through these next few verses first.
Dan 2: 41. And whereas thou sawest the feet and toes, part of potters’ clay, and part of iron, the kingdom shall be divided; but there shall be in it of the strength of the iron, forasmuch as thou sawest the iron mixed with miry clay.

Dan 2: 42. And as the toes of the feet were part of iron, and part of clay, so the kingdom shall be partly strong, and partly broken.

Dan 2: 43. And whereas thou sawest iron mixed with miry clay, they shall mingle themselves with the seed of men: but they shall not cleave one to another, even as iron is not mixed with clay.

Now the Bible, states certain events are to take place ‘In the days of these kings.’ So I want to know all about ‘these kings’ and the promise of an everlasting kingdom.

Dan 2: 44 AND IN THE DAYS OF THESE KINGS SHALL THE GOD OF HEAVEN SET UP HIS KINGDOM, which shall never be destroyed: and the kingdom shall not be left to other people, but it shall break in pieces and consume all these kingdoms, and it shall stand for ever.
God will set up His kingdom during the ‘divided kingdom of iron and clay’ at the feet of the statue.
I can recognise the LION and BEAR of Dan 7 and the rough goat of Dan 8 and recognise the association of the rough goat and how it effects the LION.
That will be followed up after I close this discussion.
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JTF quote’
“Hahahahahahahahahaha there is nothing about four kingdoms in Daniel 2 after the legs of Iron.................” Unquote
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I wouldn’t laugh too loudly if I were you JTF, you seem to forget that we are at the feet of iron and clay period where there is to be a progression into the time of the “divided kingdom’ and when I describe the ‘divided kingdom’ and the countries involved.
Then, explain what is about to occur shortly, and when it does, we will see whether you laugh so much, then.

Dear readers, the trouble with preterists, is that they are so busy looking back they are unable to recognise the things happening prophetically right in front of their very eyes.
Yes four kingdoms did rise up after the head of gold in succession but the divided kingdom of iron and potter’s clay is yet to form up out of many kingdoms.

Does anyone know where the word ‘SAME kingdom’ is used in the Bible, where JTF, tries to join the fourth and ‘divided kingdom of iron and clay together?
The words ‘SAME kingdom’ is simply not used in the Bible, verses at all to join the iron kingdom at ‘the legs of iron’ and the ‘divided kingdom’ at ‘the feet of iron and clay’ together.

It doesn’t say that this ‘divided kingdom’ in the next verse is ‘the church of Rome’ either, as JTF, also tries to imply.

So on that basis the following kingdom is, ANOTHER kingdom in its own right and there are more of them, they are called ‘horns’ to follow which are spoken of a little later by Daniel.
This following kingdom is not numbered and is different from the last iron kingdom at the legs of iron, which is no longer with us, meeting its demise in the 5th century.
If preterists wish to linger the iron kingdom longer to around 1400AD it is still over 500 years ago.
Also JTF’s suggestion that Rome, lives on by the fact that it had an influence on our culture doesn’t ring true either because the Greek, influence was substantial and that empire along with the Roman empire is also dead.

Dan 2: 41. And whereas thou sawest the feet and toes, part of potters’ clay, and part of iron, the kingdom shall be divided; but there shall be in it of the strength of the iron, forasmuch as thou sawest the iron mixed with miry clay.

Dan 2: 42. And as the toes of the feet were part of iron, and part of clay, so the kingdom shall be partly strong, and partly broken.

Dan 2: 43. And whereas thou sawest iron mixed with miry clay, they shall mingle themselves with the seed of men: but they shall not cleave one to another, even as iron is not mixed with clay.
Dan 2: 44. And IN THE DAYS OF THESE KINGS shall the God of heaven set up a kingdom, which shall never be destroyed: and the kingdom shall not be left to other people, but it shall break in pieces and consume all these kingdoms, and it shall stand for ever.

So where are the four kingdoms that are around at the SAME TIME?
God, is yet to set up His kingdom, and we are waiting for all these kingdoms to support the ,fourth beast power.’

I have mentioned four kingdoms existing at the feet of iron and clay, because I took the time to look for them and I found them in Dan 7:

It is at the time of the feet of iron and clay that God, strikes the statue with a stone (Dan 2: 45.)
How do we find the kingdoms that are the makeup of the ‘divided kingdom today?’
If these events are at hand, then we should be able to recognise at least some of them.
Firstly reading Daniel 7. Three beast kingdoms and another fourth beast kingdom come to prominence.
I say ‘another’ fourth kingdom because I can’t see the iron one hanging around at least not for many, many years.

Four kingdoms, coming up!
Daniel 7: 2. Daniel spake and said, I saw in my vision by night, and, behold, the four winds of the heaven strove upon the great sea.
This is the progression of the chezev/visions of Daniel, that progression does not stop at Dan 2 where four numbered metal kingdoms are mentioned plus a ‘divided kingdom’ also an ‘everlasting kingdom’ Daniel’s chezev is expanded upon, right through to the end of it.

 

[Prophecy Countdown]

When reading Daniel 7. It becomes obvious that it is a run through from four beasts rising, the first being in verse 3, through to God’s everlasting kingdom in verse 27.
This modus operandi is similar in Daniel 2.
However Daniel 2 only goes so far regarding detail.
A ‘divided kingdom of ‘iron and miry clay’ is mentioned with limited detail to the everlasting kingdom.
From Daniel’s time both the ‘divided kingdom’ and the kingdom of God were far into the future. ‘The time appointed long.’
Daniel 7: 3. And FOUR great beasts came up from the sea, diverse one from another.
Dear reader/s I am going to assume that you are cognizant of the word ‘sea,’ or ‘water,’ as meaning multitudes of peoples in many biblical instances.
So these beasts rise and are prominent earthly powers.
Daniel 7: 4. The FIRST was like a lion, and had eagle’s wings: I beheld till the wings thereof were plucked, and it was lifted up from the earth, and made stand upon the feet as a man, and a man’s heart was given to it.

I will explain, after this posting how the lion, loses his wings and who he is and to whom the eagle’s wings belong and tie that in with the rough goat in Dan 8:

Daniel 7: 5. And behold another beast, a SECOND, like to a bear, and it raised up itself on one side, and it had three ribs in the mouth of it between the teeth of it: and they said thus unto it, Arise, devour much flesh.
The bear is to devour/consume, dispose of much flesh.

Dear readers, let me wet your inquisitive appetites even more. What power today is the bear?
I will proceed to Daniel 7 and tell you after this post.

Daniel 7: 6. After this I beheld, and LO ANOTHER, like a leopard, which had upon the back of it four wings of a fowl; the beast had also four heads; and dominion was given to it.
Note in the above verse that dominion is given to the leopard and we have to ask why is that?
The answers are obvious but they have to be found through reading the parallels and patterns of Daniel’s chezev/visions without changing one word of scripture.

Be very cautious of people that change what the Bible, says to fit what they say through being indoctrinated.

I’m looking around for this beast and little horn fellah and he isn’t here just yet but he is coming soon and I will explain how certain events must take place as the 2300 ereb/evening boqer/morning or ‘7 years’ starts.

The progression of Daniel, is interesting as the Ram becomes ‘great’ the rough goat becomes ‘very great’ and the little horn becomes ‘exceedingly great’ in Daniel 8.
The beast with the mortal wound, will show up.
Let me wet your appetites a little more.
Remember what the Bible, said about the leopard earlier in Daniel 7: 6 ‘dominion was given to it?
This wounded fellow is going to suddenly appear, but at what cost to Earth?

Rev 13: 2. And the beast which I saw was like unto A LEOPARD, and his FEET were as of a BEAR, and his mouth as the MOUTH of a LION: and THE DRAGON gave him his POWER, and his SEAT, and GREAT AUTHORITY.
Rev 13: 3. And I saw ONE of HIS HEADS as it were WOUNDED to DEATH; and his DEADLY WOUND was HEALED: and all the world wondered after the BEAST.
Ten horns are ten kings which Daniel, is told by the angel.

Dan 7: 7. After this I saw in the night visions, and behold a fourth beast, dreadful and terrible, and strong exceedingly; and it had great iron teeth: it devoured and brake in pieces, and stamped the residue with the feet of it: and it was diverse from all the beasts that were before it; and it had ten horns.

8. I considered the horns, and, behold, there came up among them another little horn, before whom there were three of the first horns plucked up by the roots: and, behold, in this horn were eyes like the eyes of man, and a mouth speaking great things.

The judgment is set in motion in Heaven.
Dan 7: 9. I beheld till the thrones were cast down, and the Ancient of days did sit, whose garment was white as snow, and the hair of his head like the pure wool: his throne was like the fiery flame, and his wheels as burning fire.

10A fiery stream issued and came forth from before him: thousand thousands ministered unto him, and ten thousand times ten thousand stood before him: the judgment was set, and the books were opened.
The three beasts outlive the fourth beast kingdom.
The beast has a body, he is slain, he is a being. not a church.

Dan 7: 11. I beheld then because of the voice of the great words which the horn spake: I beheld even till the BEAST WAS SLAIN, and HIS BODY destroyed, and given to the burning flame.

Dan 7: 12. As concerning the REST OF THE BEASTS, they had their dominion taken away: yet their LIVES WERE PROLONGED for a season and time.
So there IS ANOTHER beast kingdom a ‘divided kingdom of iron and potter’s clay’ numbered fourth rising after the lion, bear, and leopard = three, at the same ‘time of the end,’ period TOGETHER supporting the fourth beast kingdom until the beast with the mortal wound is killed and his kingdom comes to an abrupt end.
Separated by a long time from the last ‘iron kingdom,’ at the feet of iron and clay the ‘Divided kingdom’ will cease before the prominent lion, bear, leopard kingdoms are left for a little longer.

These three beasts that rise before the divided kingdom represent certain kingdoms, around today.
We have just read this verse earlier.

The fourth Beast kingdom is the divided kingdom of iron and potter’s clay at the feet of the statue.
Daniel 7: 6. After this I beheld, and LO ANOTHER, like a leopard, which had upon the back of it four wings of a fowl; the beast had also four heads; and dominion was given to it.

Daniel 7: 7. After this I saw in the night visions, and behold a fourth beast, dreadful and terrible, and strong exceedingly; and it had great iron teeth: it devoured and brake in pieces, and stamped the residue with the feet of it: and it was diverse from all the beasts that were before it; and it had ten horns.

Here is the same beast repeated made up of the three prominent kingdoms LION, BEAR, LEOPARD, the supporting kingdoms as depicted within the fourth beast’s body makeup.

Rev 13: 2. And THE BEAST which I saw was like unto a LEOPARD, and his FEET were as the feet OF A BEAR, and his mouth as the MOUTH OF A LION: and the dragon gave him his power, and his seat, and great authority.

Rev 13: 3. And I saw ONE OF HIS HEADS as it were WOUNDED TO DEATH; and his DEADLY WOUND WAS HEALED: and all the world wondered after the beast.
There certainly are more kingdoms.
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JTF quote.
“The only difference in my belief and yours is I say the feet and Toes are the Ten horns of Daniel 7 and you say they are the four beasts and ten horns.” Unquote.
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You suggest wrongly as usual Just The Facts, I DON”T say quote “the Ten horns of Daniel 7 are the four beasts,” on any of my postings.
To the reader, I say check me out on that and see for yourself.
Also I am very thankful that my understanding is VERY different from yours and for that I thank the Lord, amen.
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My quoted words from an earlier post.
“Daniel, took the explanation of the king’s chezev right to the feet of iron and clay, he did not stop at the legs of iron, at the FOURTH METAL EMPIRE he continued onto the next kingdom made of IRON AND CLAY then on to another everlasting kingdom, so there are more than just four.”

Now where does the Bible, say that this following kingdom is part of the fourth iron kingdom? Nowhere!

 

[Prophecy Countdown]

Daniel 2: 41. And whereas thou sawest the feet and toes, part of potters’ clay, and part of iron, the kingdom shall be divided; but there shall be in it of the strength of the iron, forasmuch as thou sawest the iron mixed with miry clay.

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JTF quote.
“It is very clear that the partly clay partly iron is a part of the fourth kingdom.” Unquote.
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If the above is so, show the people the verse?
Also the kingdoms called the ‘LION,’ ‘BEAR,’ ‘LEOPARD’ represent three powers around today.

There ARE more kingdoms, the LION is one, the Bear is two, the leopard is three, and following is the fourth BEAST kingdom.
Also there are another ten kingdoms called horns that are involved.
Then the everlasting kingdom.

The little horn is Satan, because it is the little horn that loses his kingdom and the Earthly kingdom is Satan’s until it is taken away from him.

Dan 7: 21. I beheld, and the SAME HORN MADE WAR WITH THE SAINTS, and prevailed against them;
Dan 7: 22. Until the Ancient of days came, and judgment was given to the saints of the most High; and the time came that THE SAINTS POSSESSED THE KINGDOM.
Dan 7: 23. Thus he said, The fourth beast shall be the fourth kingdom upon earth, which shall be diverse from all kingdoms, and shall devour the WHOLE EARTH, and shall tread it down, and break it in pieces.

Dan 7: 25. And he shall speak great words against the most High, and shall WEAR OUT THE SAINTS of the most High, and think to change times and laws: and they shall be given into his hand until a time and times and the dividing of time.

Dan 7: 26. But the judgment shall sit, and they shall TAKE AWAY HIS KINGDOM, to consume and to destroy it unto the end.
The little horn has a dominion.

What dominion does the little horn have, that can be taken away from him?

Dan 7: 27. And the kingdom and dominion, and the greatness of the kingdom under the whole heaven, shall be given to the people of the saints of the most High, whose kingdom is an everlasting kingdom, and all dominions shall serve and obey him
Satan, owns the earthly kingdom, so the little horn is Satan.
In my next study of Daniel, I will answer a few of these questions

What kingdom does the LION represent?

What kingdom does the BEAR represent?

Who is the ram and who is the rough goat?

JTF has answered none of my 34 questions. I simply asked him ‘to verify his many quotations with scripture?’
He had his chance and failed to answer them.

So that is the discussion over with, as far as I’m concerned.

Maranatha.

Prophecy Countdown.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

I think it centers around Israel. There were 4 groups of the 12 tribes of Israel encamped around the Court in the OT. The Priesthool were in control of the inner court and Tabernacle.
I am trying to relate the 4 beasts and Elders to this somehow. Thoughts?

http://www.nsbible.org/sits_ts/v0s1.htm

The Camp--The Court--The Tabernacle--The Brazen Altar--The Laver-- The Table--The Lampstand--The Golden Altar--The Mercy Seat and Ark--The Gate--The First Veil--The Second Veil--The Significance of These and Their Antitypes.

Acts 1:6 Therefore, when they had come together, they asked Him, saying, "Lord, will You at this time restore the kingdom [#932] to Israel?" [not to JUDAH, which represented the Priesthood in Jerusalem]

 

[Just The Facts]

Hi

First off I am not a preterist in any way shape or form.

I do not believe revelation was or is about Jerusalem in 70 Ad.

Nor do I believe Mat 24 and the Abomination is About Jerusalem in 70 AD.

I am a Historical pre-millennialist Like all of the earliest Christians were.

You Need to read Again I never said you said this

“the Ten horns of Daniel 7 are the four beasts,”

What I said is

you say the feet and toes ARE the four beasts.

I say the 10 horns of the last Beast are the feet and toes.

Quote
My quoted words from an earlier post.
“Daniel, took the explanation of the king’s chezev right to the feet of iron and clay, he did not stop at the legs of iron, at the FOURTH METAL EMPIRE he continued onto the next kingdom made of IRON AND CLAY then on to another everlasting kingdom, so there are more than just four.”
End Quote


I quoted you and gave the post # what you said is "ANOTHER" kingdom

First off You can not even answer one single question let alone 34

Second I addressed ever single point in my previous posts just because you choose to ignore it does not mean I did not answer.

So Once again WHERE IN DANIEL 2 DOES IT SAY ANOTHER KINGDOM

You do not need to post three pages of diatribe just show the verse where it says another kingdom after the fourth kingdom.

It really is simple

If you can not show the simplest thing as where it says another Kingdom after the fourth in Daniel 2:then it just shows your whole doctrine is just your opinion unsupported by scripture.