The Patterns And Parallels Of Daniel.

[LittleLambofJesus]

If you can not show the simplest thing as where it says another Kingdom after the fourth in Daniel 2:then it just shows your whole doctrine is just your opinion unsupported by scripture.

Hi JTF. I don't think that previous post was directed at me. But................

Note Dan 2 and Matt 21. Do you see that. The Nation that the Kingdom is being given to grows into that Great Mountain of Dan 2!!! A new kingdom of Spirit filled Royal Priests and Kings of our Lord Jesus Christ.

Daniel 2:35 "Then the iron, the clay, the bronze, the silver, and the gold were crushed together, and became like chaff from the summer threshing floors; the wind carried them away so that no trace of them was found. And the stone that struck the image became a Great Mountain and filled the whole earth.

Zech 4:7 'Who [are] you, O great mountain? Before Zerubbabel [you shall become] a plain! And he shall bring forth the capstone With shouts of "Grace, grace to it!" ' "

Matthew 21:43 "Therefore I say toYOU, the kingdom of God will be taken from YOU and given to a NATION bearing the fruits of it.

 

[Just The Facts]

Hi Little

Is it your contention that the mountain is Christianity............................. of yesterday or today

 

[Prophecy Countdown]

JTF quote.
First off I am not a preterist in any way shape or form.
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If it barks like a dog. Looks like a dog, it’s a dog. A preterist is a preterist is a preterist.
Fanatics never admit to being fanatical.
‘Know alls’ never think that they are ‘know all bullies’ they think they are doing God’s work for Him.
They even tell Jesus and Gabriel, how to write the Bible, and change words to suite their indoctrinated ideas and I’m still waiting for those 34 pieces of preterist nonsense that you put out to be backed up by the Bible.
There is a saying it goes like this quote “put up or shut up!’
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JTF quote.
What I said is

”you say the feet and toes ARE the four beasts.”
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I have never said that! You are wrong again JTF.
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PC Quote
My quoted words from an earlier post.
“Daniel, took the explanation of the king’s chezev right to the feet of iron and clay, he did not stop at the legs of iron, at the FOURTH METAL EMPIRE he continued onto the next kingdom made of IRON AND CLAY then on to another everlasting kingdom, so there are more than just four.”
End Quote
JTF quote.
I quoted you and gave the post # what you said is "ANOTHER" kingdom
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Read Dan 7. To find out about the ‘divided kingdom of Dan two, it tells of its make up which proves it is as I said ‘another kingdom.’
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JTF quote.
First off You can not even answer one single question let alone 34
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’First off.’ I have answered it above and several times now. However if you wish to remain imperceptive, that’s your problem.
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JTF quote.
Second I addressed ever single point in my previous posts just because you choose to ignore it does not mean I did not answer. Unquote.
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COME OFF IT! Where are the your answers? On what posts? Don’t try and pull the wool over people’s eyes. YOU HAVE NEVER ANSWERED ONE OF MY 34 QUESTIONS. Or backed up your 26 statements.
I will give you another chance but you WILL NOT reply because you can’t because you will put yourself even into a hole.
You got carried away with the moment and now you realise that you can’t find a verse that backs up all that raving and ranting nonsense about as you say quote “Now what was that name................................OH YA……………………….. THE HOLY ROMAN EMPIRE.” Unquote.
LOL. You actually think that the above is a quote ‘name for the successive kingdoms that followed?’
I said back it up so you slip and slide and sneak around avoiding answering the questions and then state that you have answered them. LOL.
That is desperation stuff. LOL.
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JTF
So Once again WHERE IN DANIEL 2 DOES IT SAY ANOTHER KINGDOM
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Once again read Dan 2: about the ”DIVIDED KINGDOM” of iron and clay. That’s the one after the iron kingdom, then go back and read Dan 7: there you will find another kingdom, in detail.
NOW YOU. Show the verse in the Bible, that states that the ‘divided kingdom’ is the quote “SAME kingdom.” unquote. As you like to say.
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JTF
You do not need to post three pages of diatribe just show the verse where it says another kingdom after the fourth kingdom.
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Who do you think you are coming here on this thread telling me how long or short my replies should be?
You change the words in the Bible, even telling God, the correct words that HE, should have used into years instead of His stated days and that is another question you avoid answering by NOT explaining how you get to do that with Bible, backup.
I told you the Bible, verses, that stated not to do it and the consequences of doing so in Rev 22: 18, 19 yet you go right on ahead and ignore the authority of the Bible.
You change the words of Jesus in Revelation from days into years and in Daniel, also. They were told to him by Gabriel and Jesus, yet you impose your own changes which is NOT your right or position.
Then have the audacity to say that you quote ‘haven’t changed nothing’ unquote for want of a better terminology.
Then you get pedantic about others. LOL
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JTF quote
It really is simple
If you can not show the simplest thing as where it says another Kingdom after the fourth in Daniel 2:then it just shows your whole doctrine is just your opinion unsupported by scripture.
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Again read Dan 2: then read Dan 7: for the answer you require. If you wish to see it that is but you do not, so the problem of comprehension is with you, not anyone else.
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Seeing as you like ‘hair splitting.’
Please show the biblical backup for your following statements with the page and post numbers because they just aren’t there.
So don’t tell porkies by pretending that you have answered them, when you know full well that you have NOT used the Bible, in doing that!
I asked these question first and will continue to ask.

JTF, quotations STILL to be verified by Bible, verses!

1. “These are the same kingdoms Both denoted as Iron”
”7:7: After this I saw in the night visions, and behold a fourth beast, dreadful and terrible, and strong exceedingly; and it had great iron teeth:it devoured and brake in pieces, and stamped the residue with the feet of it:”

2. ”You are ignoring what is said they both are the fourth kingdom on Earth The both are strong as iron and the Both break into pieces the Other Kingdoms before them.” Unquote.

3. JTF quote.
“The First beast of Rev 13 is Rome the deadly head wound is the Fall of that Kingdom in 476AD.”

4. JTF quote.
“It was like Rome's deadly wound was healed and it was reborn.”

5. JTF quote.
”Charlemagne would also disagree he clearly claimed to be Roman Emperor of the West. In fact I believe they had a name for the successive kingdoms that followed.............................Now what was that name................................OH YA……………………….. THE HOLY ROMAN EMPIRE.”

6. JTF quote.
“Out of the fourth beast/Rome comes10 kingdoms/horns.”

7. JTF quote.
“In other words he destroyed their Kingdoms and established the first of seven peeks of power(the other seven horns 10-3=7) of the Holy Roman Empire.”

8. JTF quote.
“What we have is Seven PEAKS OF POWER. The Seven peaks of Power of the Holy Roman Empire or the healed beast/Kingdom.”

“Dan 2:[43] As you saw the iron mixed with miry clay, so they will mix with one another in marriage, but they will not hold together, just as iron does not mix with clay.”

9. JTF quote.
“This is just what the Kings of the Holy Roman Empire do through marriage they try and hold the Empire together but it does not hold. Sometimes it is strong and sometimes it is weak it has seven Peaks or hills of power.”

10. JTF quote.
“Later in Revelation this two horned lamb is referred to as the False prophet.”

11. JTF quote.
“Revelation is the telling of the kingdoms that would rule during the 2000 years.”

12. JTF quote. “We are told in Daniel and Rev that this Kingdom will rule for 1260 years after the deadly wound.”

13. JTF quote. “After this Happens we will see the Final Version of the Holy Roman Empire …………Who is the King of the North……………….Who will build his Palace at Jerusalem …….who will sit in that temple and show himself as God.”
“The king of the North is the revised Roman Empire/ Holy Roman Empire.”

14. JTF quote. “This new Conquering religion (that is a religion that is spread through war and violence and murder of those who do not agree) of the Kings of the North (Holy Roman Empire)”

15. JTF quote. ”Centuries later as the church suffered under the torture and murder of the Roman persecutions as it cried in pain Satan came again offerring control of the kingdom of the Devil (ie Rome) and we all know what happened next.”

16. JTF quote. “The beast of Rev 13 is Rome.”
“Revelation makes this crystal clear.”

 

[Prophecy Countdown]

17. JTF quote. “The Wound heals and the kingdom comes back as the Holy roman Empire.”

18. JTF quote.
“ALL OTHER DREAMS AND PROPHECY fit within the four Kingdoms described in Daniel 2: All other beasts in Daniel and revelation fit within these four Kingdoms.”

19. JTF quote. “It is very clear that the partly clay partly iron is a part of the fourth kingdom.”

20. JTF quote. “There is nothing after the fourth kingdom It the later days of the fourth kingdom the kingdom of God will be set up.”

21. JTF quote. ”You are ignoring what is said they both are the fourth kingdom on Earth The both are strong as iron and the Both break into pieces the Other Kingdoms before them.”

22. Just the Facts, quote.
“ This Then goes to the feet partly of clay and partly Iron. The feet also represent a stage in Rome ie:the fourth Kingdom.”

23. Just The Facts, quote.
“Do they exists as one continuous government or do they take the form of Several governments or Kingdoms. Are they always strong or are they also weak do they exist as one continuous Kingdom or Power or do they have peaks of Power sometimes strong followed by weak times then another peak of strength.”

24. Just the Facts, makes his own personal view.
Quote.
“All these doctrines that go from Rome to end times, step by almost 2,000 years of History and are just not in line with the promise of God. All is revealed to the Prophets.”

25. Just The Facts, QUOTE.
“ What you need to do is Look at what Followed the Deadly wound to Rome in 476AD ………….Which is the Holy Roman Empire………………..the Claimed Kingdom of God on Earth. Do you not think if some Kingdom was going to claim to be the promised kingdom ofn Earth God would tell us of this Kingdom therough the prophets. That is what rev is a warning against the kingdom that claims it is the Kingdom of God.” Unquote.

26. Just The Facts, quote.
"[27] And I, Daniel, was overcome and lay sick for some days; then I rose and went about the king's business; but I was appalled by the vision and did not understand it."
”So Now Daniel asks another Question because he still does not understand. He wants to know when Messiah will be Born and what will be the end of Jerusalem's desolations and punishment…………. as the 70 Years of the prophecy of Jeremiah was almost over. He wanted to know what every Jewish person wanted to know. When would the promise to Abraham and Isaac and Jacob be fulfilled the promise to The house of Judah and the House of Jacob or Joseph.” Unquote.
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That last statement numbered 26 where you actually put words into Daniel’s mouth, which he never ever uttered, is a real piece of fictional nonsense.
I thought it was from just the fiction.

Then this part from your statement numbered 25. quote “ What you need to do is Look at what Followed the Deadly wound to Rome in 476AD” Unquote.
Where did that come from? You assume that Rome was given the mortal wound? I would send that strange indoctrination book you purchased back to the publishers and get your money back. LOL.

Just retract them JTF and swallow your pride or back them.
Or are you going to do NOTHING as you have done so far.
I know what you are doing.
You are trying to wait it out and hope that all you said will all go away, aren’t you. But I will keep posting and asking until you retract or back them up.
If the fourth beast power is as you incorrectly believe the ‘fourth kingdom of Dan 2 then you should know the answer to these SIMPLE questions.
Who is the lion?
Who is the bear?
Who is the Leopard?

‘IT IS THAT SIMPLE’ JTF.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

That last statement numbered 26 where you actually put words into Daniel’s mouth, which he never ever uttered, is a real piece of fictional nonsense.
I thought it was from just the fiction.

Then this part from your statement numbered 25. quote “ What you need to do is Look at what Followed the Deadly wound to Rome in 476AD” Unquote.
Where did that come from? You assume that Rome was given the mortal wound? I would send that strange indoctrination book you purchased back to the publishers and get your money back. LOL.

Why does everyone pick on either Rome or the US? Sigh.

 

[Just The Facts]

Hi

Quote
JTF quote.
I quoted you and gave the post # what you said is "ANOTHER" kingdom
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Read Dan 7. To find out about the ‘divided kingdom of Dan two, it tells of its make up which proves it is as I said ‘another kingdom.’
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End Quote


Please I am on the floor ............................I showed you that the feet and Toes were explained in Daniel 7 you said Where!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Then you gave me 30 whatever questions Asked me to show it in Daniel 2: Now you are saying they are fulfilled in Daniel 7:

Quote
"[27] And I, Daniel, was overcome and lay sick for some days; then I rose and went about the king's business; but I was appalled by the vision and did not understand it."
”So Now Daniel asks another Question because he still does not understand. He wants to know when Messiah will be Born and what will be the end of Jerusalem's desolations and punishment…………. as the 70 Years of the prophecy of Jeremiah was almost over. He wanted to know what every Jewish person wanted to know. When would the promise to Abraham and Isaac and Jacob be fulfilled the promise to The house of Judah and the House of Jacob or Joseph.” Unquote.
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That last statement numbered 26 where you actually put words into Daniel’s mouth, which he never ever uttered, is a real piece of fictional nonsense.
End Quote

I am not putting words in Daniels mouth at all..

Here are HIS WORDS

2: In the first year of his reign I Daniel understood by books the number of the years, whereof the word of the LORD came to Jeremiah the prophet, that he would accomplish seventy years in the desolations of Jerusalem.

Daniel says he is considering Jeremiah and HOW COME it was 70 years of Desolations.

The reason it is 70 years is because of the Books of the Covenant.

Daniel says this here

11: Yea, all Israel have transgressed thy law, even by departing, that they might not obey thy voice; therefore the curse is poured upon us, and the oath that is written in the law of Moses the servant of God, because we have sinned against him.

It is the words of the Covenant that make this prophecy 490 Years. But you would have to read and trust God you seem incapable of doing either..

What Daniel wants to know is what everybody is asking, YOU KNOW CONSIDER THE BOOKS.

24: Considerest thou not what this people have spoken, saying, The two families which the LORD hath chosen, he hath even cast them off? thus they have despised my people, that they should be no more a nation before them. 25: Thus saith the LORD; If my covenant be not with day and night, and if I have not appointed the ordinances of heaven and earth; 26: Then will I cast away the seed of Jacob, and David my servant, so that I will not take any of his seed to be rulers over the seed of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob: for I will cause their captivity to return, and have mercy on them.

Quote
JTF quote.
First off I am not a preterist in any way shape or form.
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If it barks like a dog. Looks like a dog, it’s a dog. A preterist is a preterist is a preterist.
Fanatics never admit to being fanatical.
‘Know alls’ never think that they are ‘know all bullies’ they think they are doing God’s work for Him.
They even tell Jesus and Gabriel, how to write the Bible, and change words to suite their indoctrinated ideas and I’m still waiting for those 34 pieces of preterist nonsense that you put out to be backed up by the Bible.
There is a saying it goes like this quote “put up or shut up!’
End Quote

[FONT=&quot]Wow you really are lost aren’t you. If you had a clue you might be dangerous. But alas not even a clue. Ya I’m a preterist……………….and with that you have shown how clueless you really are. Which just continues on to your endless Diatribe.[/FONT]

 

[Just The Facts]

Hi Little

Is it your contention that the mountain is Christianity............................. of yesterday or today

 

[Prophecy Countdown]

JTF quote.
I quoted you and gave the post # what you said is "ANOTHER" kingdom
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YES, I DID SAY ‘ANOTHER KINGDOM’ It is the Bible, that mentions the ‘KINGDOM DIVIDED, made up of IRON and POTTER’S CLAY.’
Which is yet to rise and is not a follow on in a conquering succession as were the four that followed, each taking over the previous.
I explained that fact starting with Daniel 2: and progressing through to some of Daniel 7:
If you are unable to comprehend those details, then that is your problem. If you don’t agree then who cares?

Also the suggestion of the beast with the mortal wound as being quote.
“Now what was that name................................OH YA……………………….. THE HOLY ROMAN EMPIRE.” Unquote. Is not from the Bible, but from a strange book of indoctrination based on old preconceived notions.
If as you claim to know who the fourth beast power is, then you must also know who the preceding beasts are.
So who is the LION?
Who is the BEAR?
Who is the leopard?
Please answer the questions, please don’t keep ignoring them by side stepping them.
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JTF quote.
Please I am on the floor ............................I showed you that the feet and Toes were explained in Daniel 7 you said Where!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Then you gave me 30 whatever questions Asked me to show it in Daniel 2: Now you are saying they are fulfilled in Daniel 7:
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Rather dramatic having to go on the floor JTF, is that because you are shocked that someone dare disagree with your doctrine?
You seem to have a selective memory problem regarding your last above statement.
The chronology of your last account is not in the correct order of actual events.
You assumed something that I supposedly believed, which was never stated by me.
Yet on that false assumption of yours you argue a point?
Let me refresh your some what diminished memory on these matters.
I have never typed or said quote “Where!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!” unquote. in answer to your statements about the ‘ten horns.’
In fact I agree.
You said quote “The First beast of Rev 13 is Rome the deadly head wound is the Fall of that Kingdom in 476AD.” Unquote.
I said, Where does it say that in the Bible?

I ASKED YOU, FIRSTLY to substantiate your 30 statements biblically BEFORE you even suggested that the ten toes were ten kings.
So as I said your memory like your timing is way off and is very selective.

Also, I never said the following statement.
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JTF Quote. “Now you are saying they are fulfilled in Daniel 7:” unquote.
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You need to be more careful and at least be accurate when trying to quote someone and at least do it within the correct sequence of events and within context and not within your memory’s jumbled order of things that are unrelated.
Several times I have asked you to substantiate your 30 or so statements you then came up with this following false statement and attributed it to me.

JTF quote.
“The only difference in my belief and yours is I say the feet and Toes are the Ten horns of Daniel 7 and you say they are the four beasts and ten horns.” Unquote.
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Now, I had not even mentioned the ten toes at that time.
Yet you falsely make this statement quote “you say they are the four beasts and ten horns.” Unquote
My previous reply was as follows.
“You suggest wrongly as usual Just The Facts, I DON”T say quote ‘the Ten horns of Daniel 7 are the four beasts,’ on any of my postings.”
“To the reader, I say check me out on that and see for yourself.”

Then I said this.
Quote “There ARE more kingdoms, the LION is one, the Bear is two, the leopard is three, and following is the fourth BEAST kingdom.
Also there are another ten kingdoms called horns that are involved.
Then the everlasting kingdom.” Unquote.
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I vehemently disagree with this, your following statement!
JTF quote.
“Out of the fourth beast/Rome comes10 kingdoms/horns.” Unquote.
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You assume that the beast is Rome.
Rome took over many EXISTING kingdoms none of them came out of Rome.
Rome was pushed out from among those existing kingdoms.
Now for the 4th time let me ask you these questions.
If the quote ‘fourth beast is Rome.’ Unquote. As you claim.
Then who are these preceding beasts representative of?

What kingdom does the LION represent?

What kingdom does the BEAR represent?

What kingdom does the LEOPARD represent?

Dan 7: 17. These great beasts, which are four, are FOUR KINGS, which SHALL ARISE out of the earth.
Dan 7: 18. But the saints of the most High shall take the kingdom, and possess the kingdom for ever, even for ever and ever
______________________________________

Who is the RAM?

Who is the ROUGH GOAT of Dan 8?

Who is the little horn?

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JTF, Quote
"[27] And I, Daniel, was overcome and lay sick for some days; then I rose and went about the king's business; but I was appalled by the vision and did not understand it." Unquote.

”So Now Daniel asks another Question because he still does not understand. He wants to know when Messiah will be Born and what will be the end of Jerusalem's desolations and punishment…………. as the 70 Years of the prophecy of Jeremiah was almost over. He wanted to know what every Jewish person wanted to know. When would the promise to Abraham and Isaac and Jacob be fulfilled the promise to The house of Judah and the House of Jacob or Joseph.” Unquote.

“I am not putting words in Daniels mouth at all..”

“Here are HIS WORDS”

2: In the first year of his reign I Daniel understood by books the number of the years, whereof the word of the LORD came to Jeremiah the prophet, that he would accomplish seventy years in the desolations of Jerusalem.

“Daniel says he is considering Jeremiah and HOW COME it was 70 years of Desolations.”

“The reason it is 70 years is because of the Books of the Covenant.”

”Daniel says this here”

“11: Yea, all Israel have transgressed thy law, even by departing, that they might not obey thy voice; therefore the curse is poured upon us, and the oath that is written in the law of Moses the servant of God, because we have sinned against him.”

“It is the words of the Covenant that make this prophecy 490 Years. But you would have to read and trust God you seem incapable of doing either..”

“What Daniel wants to know is what everybody is asking, YOU KNOW CONSIDER THE BOOKS.”

”24: Considerest thou not what this people have spoken, saying, The two families which the LORD hath chosen, he hath even cast them off? thus they have despised my people, that they should be no more a nation before them. 25: Thus saith the LORD; If my covenant be not with day and night, and if I have not appointed the ordinances of heaven and earth; 26: Then will I cast away the seed of Jacob, and David my servant, so that I will not take any of his seed to be rulers over the seed of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob: for I will cause their captivity to return, and have mercy on them.” Unquote.
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[Prophecy Countdown]

Emperor of the West. In fact I believe they had a name for the successive kingdoms that followed.............................Now what was that name................................OH YA……………………….. THE HOLY ROMAN EMPIRE.”

6. JTF quote.
“Out of the fourth beast/Rome comes10 kingdoms/horns.”

7. JTF quote.
“In other words he destroyed their Kingdoms and established the first of seven peeks of power(the other seven horns 10-3=7) of the Holy Roman Empire.”

8. JTF quote.
“What we have is Seven PEAKS OF POWER. The Seven peaks of Power of the Holy Roman Empire or the healed beast/Kingdom.”

“Dan 2:[43] As you saw the iron mixed with miry clay, so they will mix with one another in marriage, but they will not hold together, just as iron does not mix with clay.”

9. JTF quote.
“This is just what the Kings of the Holy Roman Empire do through marriage they try and hold the Empire together but it does not hold. Sometimes it is strong and sometimes it is weak it has seven Peaks or hills of power.”

10. JTF quote.
“Later in Revelation this two horned lamb is referred to as the False prophet.”

11. JTF quote.
“Revelation is the telling of the kingdoms that would rule during the 2000 years.”

12. JTF quote. “We are told in Daniel and Rev that this Kingdom will rule for 1260 years after the deadly wound.”

13. JTF quote. “After this Happens we will see the Final Version of the Holy Roman Empire …………Who is the King of the North……………….Who will build his Palace at Jerusalem …….who will sit in that temple and show himself as God.”
“The king of the North is the revised Roman Empire/ Holy Roman Empire.”

14. JTF quote. “This new Conquering religion (that is a religion that is spread through war and violence and murder of those who do not agree) of the Kings of the North (Holy Roman Empire)”

15. JTF quote. ”Centuries later as the church suffered under the torture and murder of the Roman persecutions as it cried in pain Satan came again offerring control of the kingdom of the Devil (ie Rome) and we all know what happened next.”

16. JTF quote. “The beast of Rev 13 is Rome.”
“Revelation makes this crystal clear.”

17. JTF quote. “The Wound heals and the kingdom comes back as the Holy roman Empire.”

18. JTF quote.
“ALL OTHER DREAMS AND PROPHECY fit within the four Kingdoms described in Daniel 2: All other beasts in Daniel and revelation fit within these four Kingdoms.”

19. JTF quote. “It is very clear that the partly clay partly iron is a part of the fourth kingdom.”

20. JTF quote. “There is nothing after the fourth kingdom It the later days of the fourth kingdom the kingdom of God will be set up.”

21. JTF quote. ”You are ignoring what is said they both are the fourth kingdom on Earth The both are strong as iron and the Both break into pieces the Other Kingdoms before them.”

22. Just the Facts, quote.
“ This Then goes to the feet partly of clay and partly Iron. The feet also represent a stage in Rome ie:the fourth Kingdom.”

23. Just The Facts, quote.
“Do they exists as one continuous government or do they take the form of Several governments or Kingdoms. Are they always strong or are they also weak do they exist as one continuous Kingdom or Power or do they have peaks of Power sometimes strong followed by weak times then another peak of strength.”

24. Just the Facts, makes his own personal view.
Quote.
“All these doctrines that go from Rome to end times, step by almost 2,000 years of History and are just not in line with the promise of God. All is revealed to the Prophets.”

25. Just The Facts, QUOTE.
“ What you need to do is Look at what Followed the Deadly wound to Rome in 476AD ………….Which is the Holy Roman Empire………………..the Claimed Kingdom of God on Earth. Do you not think if some Kingdom was going to claim to be the promised kingdom ofn Earth God would tell us of this Kingdom therough the prophets. That is what rev is a warning against the kingdom that claims it is the Kingdom of God.” Unquote.

26. Just The Facts, quote.
"[27] And I, Daniel, was overcome and lay sick for some days; then I rose and went about the king's business; but I was appalled by the vision and did not understand it."
”So Now Daniel asks another Question because he still does not understand. He wants to know when Messiah will be Born and what will be the end of Jerusalem's desolations and punishment…………. as the 70 Years of the prophecy of Jeremiah was almost over. He wanted to know what every Jewish person wanted to know. When would the promise to Abraham and Isaac and Jacob be fulfilled the promise to The house of Judah and the House of Jacob or Joseph.” Unquote.
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
That last statement numbered 26 where you actually DO put words into Daniel’s mouth, he never ever uttered this quote. “when Messiah will be Born”
Just retract them JTF and swallow your pride or back them.
Or are you going to do NOTHING as you have done so far.
I know what you are doing.
You are trying to wait it out and hope that all you said will all go away, aren’t you. But I will keep posting and asking until you retract or back them up.
If the fourth beast power is as you incorrectly believe the ‘fourth kingdom of Dan 2 then you should know the answer to these SIMPLE questions.

WHO IS THE LION?

WHO IS THE BEAR?

WHO IS THE LEOPARD?

Who is the ram in Daniel 8?

Who is the rough goat?

Show how you get the fictional ‘490 years?’

IT’S THAT SIMPLE’ JTF.

 

[Just The Facts]

HI

Quote
I know what you are doing.
You are trying to wait it out and hope that all you said will all go away, aren’t you.
End Quote

Dear Brother Countdown I have explained this dozens of times on this site and I have explained every question you list below as well. I have not repeated myself because I do not think you are even interested in looking at this unless it fits your pretty little picture. However in the hope that the spirit will teach you I will provide the information again. Daniel is not about many different things Daniel is about Daniel TRYING but failing to understand the Kings dream in Daniel 2: each dream or vision after Daniel 2 is Given to Daniel as he asks God to explain the Kiungs dream of Daniel 2: Each time Daniel ends with I did not understand . In fact he ends the chapter that way and is told he will never understand.

What you do not seem to understand is what the Bible is about. It is all about the covenant with Abraham Isaac and Jacob and the Blessing that is given to them.

It starts with this

Gen:26:4: And I will make thy seed to multiply as the stars of heaven, and will give unto thy seed all these countries; and in thy seed shall all the nations of the earth be blessed;

Above God promises that Jesus will be born of His Seed, in addition there is a promise of many Nations being of his seed.

Isaac gets this promise given to him.

Gen:17:19: And God said, Sarah thy wife shall bear thee a son indeed; and thou shalt call his name Isaac: and I will establish my covenant with him for an everlasting covenant, and with his seed after him.

Then Jacob gets it because Esau sells it to him and because he goes to Isaac disguised as Esau.

Gen:25:33: And Jacob said, Swear to me this day; and he sware unto him: and he sold his birthright unto Jacob.

19: And Jacob said unto his father, I am Esau thy firstborn; I have done according as thou badest me: arise, I pray thee, sit and eat of my venison, that thy soul may bless me. 20: And Isaac said unto his son, How is it that thou hast found it so quickly, my son? And he said, Because the LORD thy God brought it to me. 21: And Isaac said unto Jacob, Come near, I pray thee, that I may feel thee, my son, whether thou be my very son Esau or not.
22: And Jacob went near unto Isaac his father; and he felt him, and said, The voice is Jacob's voice, but the hands are the hands of Esau. 23: And he discerned him not, because his hands were hairy, as his brother Esau's hands: so he blessed him. 24: And he said, Art thou my very son Esau? And he said, I am. 25: And he said, Bring it near to me, and I will eat of my son's venison, that my soul may bless thee. And he brought it near to him, and he did eat: and he brought him wine, and he drank. 26: And his father Isaac said unto him, Come near now, and kiss me, my son. 27: And he came near, and kissed him: and he smelled the smell of his raiment, and blessed him, and said, See, the smell of my son is as the smell of a field which the LORD hath blessed: 28: Therefore God give thee of the dew of heaven, and the fatness of the earth, and plenty of corn and wine: 29: Let people serve thee, and nations bow down to thee: be lord over thy brethren, and let thy mother's sons bow down to thee: cursed be every one that curseth thee, and blessed be he that blesseth thee.

After a long struggle with God represented in the dream of Jacob ladder Jacob finally turns to God.

Now Jacob has a great blessing on him. Jesus will be born from his seed . And His seed will possess the fattest parts of the earth and rule over the world. This is a two fold promise. That is divided up between the Two hoses of Israel. The Hose of Judah and the House of Israel/Ephraim also referred to as Joseph.

This birth right is divided up at Jacobs death.

Judah gets this

9: Judah is a lion's whelp: from the prey, my son, thou art gone up: he stooped down, he couched as a lion, and as an old lion; who shall rouse him up? 10: The sceptre shall not depart from Judah, nor a lawgiver from between his feet, until Shiloh come; and unto him shall the gathering of the people be.

This is where Judah gets the promise of Messiah being born of his seed. A side note it is from Jacobs blessing that the Tribes also got their ensigns (banners) Judah’s being the lion.

The house of Ephraim gets the material birth right of great wealth and power and the fatness of the Earth.

48:14: And Israel stretched out his right hand, and laid it upon Ephraim's head, who was the younger, and his left hand upon Manasseh's head, guiding his hands wittingly; for Manasseh was the firstborn.15: And he blessed Joseph, and said, God, before whom my fathers Abraham and Isaac did walk, the God which fed me all my life long unto this day,
16: The Angel which redeemed me from all evil, bless the lads; and let my name be named on them, and the name of my fathers Abraham and Isaac; and let them grow into a multitude in the midst of the earth.17: And when Joseph saw that his father laid his right hand upon the head of Ephraim, it displeased him: and he held up his father's hand, to remove it from Ephraim's head unto Manasseh's head.18: And Joseph said unto his father, Not so, my father: for this is the firstborn; put thy right hand upon his head.19: And his father refused, and said, I know it, my son, I know it: he also shall become a people, and he also shall be great: but truly his younger brother shall be greater than he, and his seed shall become a multitude of nations.

Now God did not say WHEN he would accomplish all of this just a promise that he would do it.

Now the Hebrews end up in Egyptian slavery does God come to rescue the Hebrews because they have done something because they themselves are worthy. No he does not he does it because of the covenant.

Exodus:2:24: And God heard their groaning, and God remembered his covenant with Abraham, with Isaac, and with Jacob.

So God leads the Hebrews out into the wilderness and makes a covenant with them. He promises to fulfill his promise to Abraham Isaac and Jacob IN THEIR GENERATION IF they Keep his covenant.

Ex:6:8: And I will bring you in unto the land, concerning the which I did swear to give it to Abraham, to Isaac, and to Jacob; and I will give it you for an heritage: I am the LORD.

God makes a deal with the Whole congregation. However they do not even keep it 30 days. And Instead have a golden calf made up. So they have already Violated it. But God is a forgiving God and lays out the terms of the covenant for them in writing.

Lev 26:3: If ye walk in my statutes, and keep my commandments, and do them; 4: Then I will give you rain in due season, and the land shall yield her increase, and the trees of the field shall yield their fruit. 5: And your threshing shall reach unto the vintage, and the vintage shall reach unto the sowing time: and ye shall eat your bread to the full, and dwell in your land safely. 6: And I will give peace in the land, and ye shall lie down, and none shall make you afraid: and I will rid evil beasts out of the land, neither shall the sword go through your land. 7: And ye shall chase your enemies, and they shall fall before you by the sword. 8: And five of you shall chase an hundred, and an hundred of you shall put ten thousand to flight: and your enemies shall fall before you by the sword. 9: For I will have respect unto you, and make you fruitful, and multiply you, and establish my covenant with you.


However if they fail to keep the Covenant then they will be denied this greatness and denied fulfillment of the covenant for a set period of time.

14: But if ye will not hearken unto me, and will not do all these commandments; 15: And if ye shall despise my statutes, or if your soul abhor my judgments, so that ye will not do all my commandments, but that ye break my covenant: 16: I also will do this unto you; I will even appoint over you terror, consumption, and the burning ague, that shall consume the eyes, and cause sorrow of heart: and ye shall sow your seed in vain, for your enemies shall eat it. 17: And I will set my face against you, and ye shall be slain before your enemies: they that hate you shall reign over you; and ye shall flee when none pursueth you. 18: And if ye will not yet for all this hearken unto me, then I will punish you seven times more for your sins. 19: And I will break the pride of your power; and I will make your heaven as iron, and your earth as brass: 20: And your strength shall be spent in vain: for your land shall not yield her increase, neither shall the trees of the land yield their fruits. 21: And if ye walk contrary unto me, and will not hearken unto me; I will bring seven times more plagues upon you according to your sins. 22: I will also send wild beasts among you, which shall rob you of your children, and destroy your cattle, and make you few in number; and your highways shall be desolate. 23: And if ye will not be reformed by me by these things, but will walk contrary unto me; 24: Then will I also walk contrary unto you, and will punish you yet seven times for your sins. 25: And I will bring a sword upon you, that shall avenge the quarrel of my covenant: and when ye are gathered together within your cities, I will send the pestilence among you; and ye shall be delivered into the hand of the enemy. 26: And when I have broken the staff of your bread, ten women shall bake your bread in one oven, and they shall deliver you your bread again by weight: and ye shall eat, and not be satisfied. 27: And if ye will not for all this hearken unto me, but walk contrary unto me; 28: Then I will walk contrary unto you also in fury; and I, even I, will chastise you seven times for your sins. 29: And ye shall eat the flesh of your sons, and the flesh of your daughters shall ye eat. 30: And I will destroy your high places, and cut down your images, and cast your carcases upon the carcases of your idols, and my soul shall abhor you. 31: And I will make your cities waste, and bring your sanctuaries unto desolation, and I will not smell the savour of your sweet odours.
32: And I will bring the land into desolation: and your enemies which dwell therein shall be astonished at it. 33: And I will scatter you among the heathen, and will draw out a sword after you: and your land shall be desolate, and your cities waste. 34: Then shall the land enjoy her sabbaths, as long as it lieth desolate, and ye be in your enemies' land; even then shall the land rest, and enjoy her sabbaths. 35: As long as it lieth desolate it shall rest; because it did not rest in your sabbaths, when ye dwelt upon it. 36: And upon them that are left alive of you I will send a faintness into their hearts in the lands of their enemies; and the sound of a shaken leaf shall chase them; and they shall flee, as fleeing from a sword; and they shall fall when none pursueth. 37: And they shall fall one upon another, as it were before a sword, when none pursueth: and ye shall have no power to stand before your enemies. 38: And ye shall perish among the heathen, and the land of your enemies shall eat you up. 39: And they that are left of you shall pine away in their iniquity in your enemies' lands; and also in the iniquities of their fathers shall they pine away with them.

Notice above the emphasis that is put on his Sabbaths. I say this because this is why Jeremiah was told 70 years it was punishment for seventy Sabbaths missed.

End of Part 1

 

[Just The Facts]

Part 2:


Now as we all know the Two houses split up after Solomon. And We end up with the Northern Kingdom of Israel which is made up of the 9.5 tribes of the House of Israel / Ephraim / Joseph and the Southern kingdom of the House of Judah.

God confirms this is his doing.

1Kgs:12: 12:21: And when Rehoboam was come to Jerusalem, he assembled all the house of Judah, with the tribe of Benjamin, an hundred and fourscore thousand chosen men, which were warriors, to fight against the house of Israel, to bring the kingdom again to Rehoboam the son of Solomon……………………….24: Thus saith the LORD, Ye shall not go up, nor fight against your brethren the children of Israel: return every man to his house; for this thing is from me.

So Now we have the promise split into to families IE Two Nations. The Kingdom of Judah in the South holds the promise of Jesus being Born of the House of Judah and the kingdom of Israel in the North holds the promise of Many nations and great power.

First Israel/Ephraim is Carried Away for violating the Covenant.

2Kings 17:7: For so it was, that the children of Israel had sinned against the LORD their God, which had brought them up out of the land of Egypt, from under the hand of Pharaoh king of Egypt, and had feared other gods, 8: And walked in the statutes of the heathen, whom the LORD cast out from before the children of Israel, and of the kings of Israel, which they had made.9: And the children of Israel did secretly those things that were not right against the LORD their God, and they built them high places in all their cities, from the tower of the watchmen to the fenced city. 10: And they set them up images and groves in every high hill, and under every green tree: 11: And there they burnt incense in all the high places, as did the heathen whom the LORD carried away before them; and wrought wicked things to provoke the LORD to anger: 12: For they served idols, whereof the ………………18: Therefore the LORD was very angry with Israel, and removed them out of his sight: there was none left but the tribe of Judah only.

Notice the terms of the Covenant are listed and it is proclaimed by God they have Violated the Covenant So now the Curse of the Covenant as stated in Leviticus 26: comes upon them.


After A few more years the House of Judah violates the Covenant. And So their promise that Jesus would be born of their House is also put to the curse.

Daniel 9: is about Daniel asking about the punishment of this covenant. What is at the other end of the punishment is the Fulfilment of the Covenant. For the Jews the fulfillment of the covenant is Jesus being born of the House of Judah.

Jer: 34:18: And I will give the men that have transgressed my covenant, which have not performed the words of the covenant which they had made before me, when they cut the calf in twain, and passed between the parts thereof, 19: The princes of Judah, and the princes of Jerusalem, the eunuchs, and the priests, and all the people of the land, which passed between the parts of the calf;

Dan 9:11: Yea, all Israel have transgressed thy law, even by departing, that they might not obey thy voice; therefore the curse is poured upon us, and the oath that is written in the law of Moses the servant of God, because we have sinned against him

It is not just Daniel that wants to know what about the covenant ALL of the People are saying the same thing.

Jer :33:24: Considerest thou not what this people have spoken, saying, The two families which the LORD hath chosen, he hath even cast them off? thus they have despised my people, that they should be no more a nation before them. 25: Thus saith the LORD; If my covenant be not with day and night, and if I have not appointed the ordinances of heaven and earth; 26: Then will I cast away the seed of Jacob, and David my servant, so that I will not take any of his seed to be rulers over the seed of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob: for I will cause their captivity to return, and have mercy on them.

Daniel 9: IS ALL ABOUT THE COVENANT.

Now Jeremiah had prophesied 70 years…………..this is not a random amount of time. It is for the Seventy Sabbath years they had not kept. The 70 years they had not let the land rest.

Remember in the Covenant it says.

34: Then shall the land enjoy her Sabbaths, as long as it lieth desolate, and ye be in your enemies' land; even then shall the land rest, and enjoy her Sabbaths.

Now we are also told in the covenant that once they are led to their enemies land that if they still refuse to repent this will happen to them.

18: And if ye will not yet for all this hearken unto me, then I will punish you seven times more for your sins.

They will be punished 7 times more for their sins. 70 years x 7 = 490years

So did the House of Judah repent in Babylon or did all but four men bow down to the Statue.

Dan:3:10: Thou, O king, hast made a decree, that every man that shall hear the sound of the cornet, flute, harp, sackbut, psaltery, and dulcimer, and all kinds of musick, shall fall down and worship the golden image:

Dan:3:12: There are certain Jews whom thou hast set over the affairs of the province of Babylon, Shadrach, Meshach, and Abed-nego; these men, O king, have not regarded thee: they serve not thy gods, nor worship the golden image which thou hast set up.

Now Daniel is of the House of Judah.

6: Now among these were of the children of Judah, Daniel, Hananiah, Mishael, and Azariah:

In Daniel 9: he is asking when this punishment will be over and when God will fulfill the Covenant. Remember the covenant to his house is Jesus is Born and everlasting rightousness comes forth.

Now Look at the Answer Daniel gets

[24] "Seventy weeks of years are decreed concerning your people and your holy city, to finish the transgression, to put an end to sin, and to atone for iniquity, to bring in everlasting righteousness, to seal both vision and prophet, and to anoint a most holy one.

We are told that it will take 490 yrs. To finish the sin of the Jews "upon thy people" "to finish the transgressionand to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity". And to seal up and finish this prophecy. It looks like Jesus knew that people would try and stretch this prophecy to over 2500yrs. So he clearly states this prophecy ends in 490yrs.

490 years to make an end of their sins to fulfil God's covenant with Abraham, and to reconcile them to God by Jesus "and to anoint the most Holy One. "This prophecy clearly states that the 490 years is a further punishment period of the Jews. In this prophecy at the end of 490 years Jesus arrives and this part of the covenant with Abraham is fulfilled.


This is the Truth of Daniel 9: and the 490 years.

Now on to the Four Beasts. As I stated earlier it is not new info Daniel is getting in Daniel 7: it is a further explanation of the kings dream in Daniel 2: because Daniel Does not understand it.

Quote
Who is the ram in Daniel 8?

Who is the rough goat?
End Quote

[20] As for the ram which you saw with the two horns, these are the kings of Media and Persia. [21] And the he-goat is the king of Greece; and the great horn between his eyes is the first king. [22] As for the horn that was broken, in place of which four others arose, four kingdoms shall arise from his nation, but not with his power.

God tells us in plain language who it is The great horn is the first King of the Grecian Empire IE Alexander: the Four Horns are the Four Generals that take over his Kingdom at his death and create the Four Kingdoms.

That of Seleucid Kingdom to the north of Judea in Syria Turkey, and modern day Lebanon, the Ptolemaic Kingdom to the South in Egypt, the Pontus Kingdom at the Black Sea and the Antigonid Kingdom in Greece.

Now We know from Daniel 2: that Babylon is the First kingdom after we know from history Comes Persia………….then A third Kingdom Greece which is then divided into four Kingdoms as we are told this in very plain language in Daniel 8:

So


Quote
WHO IS THE LION?

WHO IS THE BEAR?

WHO IS THE LEOPARD?
End Quote

Let us concentrate on the Third kingdom here the leopard.

6: After this I beheld, and lo another, like a leopard, which had upon the back of it four wings of a fowl; the beast had also four heads; and dominion was given to it.

Notice this beast has four heads……..what do these heads mean in prophetic scripture.

9: And here is the mind which hath wisdom. The seven heads are seven mountains, on which the woman sitteth. 10: And there are seven kings:

revelation tells us that in prophecy a head is a king or kingdom.

So the four heads of Daniel’s third beast represent four kingdoms that grow out of the Third kingdom. This is EXACTLY what Daniel is told in Daniel 8:

Daniel 8 is a FURTHER explanation of Daniel 2 and 7: Which are both about the same thing. The four Kingdoms that will rule the Earth before God sets up his kingdom.

Daniel 11: is a detailed explanation about two of the four kingdoms of Daniel’s third beast. IE the King of the North and the king of the South.

So the lion is the first Kingdom Babylon

We are told it is the Law of the Land that those who do not worship are given to the Lion

Dan:6:7: All the presidents of the kingdom, the governors, and the princes, the counsellers, and the captains, have consulted together to establish a royal statute, and to make a firm decree, that whosoever shall ask a petition of any God or man for thirty days, save of thee, O king, he shall be cast into the den of lions.

The bear is the Second Kingdom Persia. Since we know the Lion is Babylon and the Leopard is Greece and Daniel 8 tells us the kingdom greece takes ofver is Persia.

Now I have explained this all yet again I will leave it up to the spirit to decide if you are to see this truth, for it is the Spirit that teaches I am only a witness to the Truth. I have given you the Witness of God’s word on this subject So I suggest you pray and ask for understanding and if the Spirit decides it is time for you to see then so be it. For all in their time and A time for all.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Hi JTF. I don't think that previous post was directed at me. But................

Note Dan 2 and Matt 21. Do you see that. The Nation that the Kingdom is being given to grows into that Great Mountain of Dan 2!!! A new kingdom of Spirit filled Royal Priests and Kings of our Lord Jesus Christ.

Daniel 2:35 "Then the iron, the clay, the bronze, the silver, and the gold were crushed together, and became like chaff from the summer threshing floors; the wind carried them away so that no trace of them was found. And the stone that struck the image became a Great Mountain and filled the whole earth.

Zech 4:7 'Who [are] you, O great mountain? Before Zerubbabel [you shall become] a plain! And he shall bring forth the capstone With shouts of "Grace, grace to it!" ' "

Matthew 21:43 "Therefore I say toYOU, the kingdom of God will be taken from YOU and given to a NATION bearing the fruits of it.

Hi Little

Is it your contention that the mountain is Christianity............................. of yesterday or today

I would think it is both jewish and christian believers in Christ. I can't get the jews or muslims view on it, so I was hoping to get views on it here. Peace.

(Young) John 1:29 on the morrow John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, `Lo, the Lamb of God, who is taking away the sin of the world;

http://www.christianforums.com/t2825585-question-for-jews-muslims-on-daniel-12.html

Daniel is part of the Ketuvim (a.k.a. The Writings). The book is not a part of the Nevi'im (the Prophets), and is thus not necessarily considered a book of prophesy according to the Christian POV. A Prophet in Judaism spoke to his/her generation. Daniel does not do that.

As for the interpretation of Daniel from a Jewish perspective - let's just say it differs from the Christian perspective.

 

[Prophecy Countdown]

Capital letters for emphasis only.
Daniel 7: is an overview in brief from four kingdoms that rise to the ‘everlasting kingdom in verse 27.
Daniel 7: 1. In the first year of Belshazzar king of Babylon Daniel had a dream and visions of his head upon his bed: then he wrote the dream, and told the sum of the matters.

Daniel 7: 2. Daniel spake and said, I saw in my vision by night, and, behold, the four winds of the heaven strove upon the great sea.

When studying I found myself having to go back to Daniel 2: 41-44, simply to remind myself of the fact that God, will set up His kingdom, during the time of the feet of iron and clay period and at the time of theses kings.

Daniel 2: 44. “And in the DAYS OF THESE KINGS THE GOD OF HEAVEN WILL SET UP HIS KINGDOM which shall never be destroyed; and the kingdom shall not be left to other people; it shall break in pieces and consume all these kingdoms, and it shall stand forever.

Now being satisfied as to the TIME of these events in which these last kings would arise and during their reign God,
would set up His everlasting kingdom, which is when the stone is to be cast at the feet of iron and clay period because this did not happen during the historic kingdoms.
See Daniel 2: 34, 35.
I found that I could pinpoint the vision’s period on the metal empire time statue of where four beast powers rise. The fact that His kingdom was not set up during any of the past kingdoms before the feet of iron and clay means these beast kingdoms are not representative of Babylon, Medo/Persia, Greece or Rome. Now just history book names.

The angel in chezev took Daniel, to the “time of the end,” at the feet of the statue. The Angel didn’t waste much time getting there either.
So, it is after the legs of iron, which is representative of the now finished Roman empire, that the vision can proceed to its ultimate fulfilment of the setting up of His kingdom at THE FEET of IRON and CLAY.
It is only right that the descriptions of the beasts should be recognisable today if we are at “the time of the end” not only by their symbols but by their behaviour, which should reflect the events mentioned by Daniel.

Jesus, never claimed that this Earth was His kingdom during His time here at the time of the legs of iron. Remember the Lord’s prayer, ‘Thy kingdom come.’ If it were His, at the time of the Roman empire, His servants would fight for it, in fact He said just that.

John 18: 36. Jesus answered, My kingdom is NOT of this world: if my kingdom were of this world, then would my servants FIGHT, that I should not be delivered to the Jews: but now is my kingdom not from hence.

The four beasts that come up together, are divers one from another, so comparisons are made of each as they rise up.
Daniel 7: 3. And four great beasts came up from the sea, diverse one from another.
Daniel 7: 4. The first was like a lion, and had eagle’s wings: I beheld till the wings thereof were plucked, and it was lifted up from the earth, and made stand upon the feet as a man, and a man’s heart was given to it.

The kingdoms at the feet of iron and clay at “the time of the end,” are described by using identifying symbols that will only be known to people living during the reign of these last kingdoms.
The powers that are mentioned did not exist as powerful nations, before or during the last great Roman empire.
The symbols of the lion, bear, leopard and fourth beast, would have been meaningless to previous empire generations.
The book of Daniel, was to remain sealed, to the understanding of earlier generations than those living at the specific time.
Daniel, was told to ‘seal up the Book until the time of the end.’
Daniel 12:3. But you, Daniel, keep this prophecy a secret; seal up the book UNTIL THE TIME OF THE END. Many will rush here and there, and knowledge will increase.”

In plain English, lock up the Book from anyone understanding it, seal it from being understood, until that TIME of the end. Lots of people will go backwards and forwards over the words trying to understand it and they will increase their knowledge of it, but it won’t be understood until that specific time period.

So the many historic’ views of Daniel, by those living before the allocated time, who have since died to them the chezev was to remain unfathomable.
They lived way too early to fit the conditional requirements of the Chezev.

Daniel 7: 3. And four great beasts came up from the sea, diverse one from another.

Daniel 7: 4. The first was like a LION, and had EAGLE’S wings: I beheld till the wings thereof were plucked, and it was lifted up from the earth, and made stand upon the feet as a man, and a man’s heart was given to it.

When America was attacked on the 11th September 2001, the British Prime Minister Tony Blaire, on the 12th, the very next day, stood by the American President and said. “We are with you 100%.”
The Symbols of Britain, is the lion and the U S A, the EAGLE and they came together, to be known as the ‘alliance.’

Somehow Great Britain, will lose its alliance wings, its great and powerful partner America.

Britain also loses its great brave lion’s heart, and is given the heart of a man and is made to stand on its own like a man, weaker.
Now what happens in a power vacuum created by The United States of America either pulling up the draw bridge and letting the rest of the world get on with it without its help? What of Britain, if America goes broke, because of these war costs?

We can only consider the symbols applying to the powers at the time of the end because that is the time that the vision is concerned with as Gabriel, stated several times to Daniel.

Earth doesn’t like a political vacuum, so up stands the BEAR,
What country has the BEAR as its symbol today?
RUSSIA!
Daniel 7: 5. And behold another beast, a second, like to a BEAR, and it raised up itself on one side, and it had three ribs in the mouth of it between the teeth of it: and they said thus unto it, Arise, DEVOUR MUCH FLESH.

I’m not sure about this one. Could it be Asia, Japan or CHINA?
This is a personal opinion, but I think it’s China.
We are told of the LEOPARD.
It has “four wings of a fowl.” It can’t fly as far or as swiftly as the eagle’s wings.
Daniel 7: 6. After this I beheld, and lo another, like a LEOPARD, which had upon the back of it four wings of a fowl; the beast had ALSO FOUR HEADS; and DOMINION was GIVEN TO IT.
The next beast, the fourth has a little of all the other beasts in its makeup.
Daniel 7: 7.After this I saw in the night visions, and behold a FOURTH BEAST, DREADFUL and TERRIBLE, and STRONG EXCEEDINGLY; and it had great iron teeth: it devoured and brake in pieces, and STAMPED the RESIDUE with the FEET of it: and it was diverse from all the beasts that were before it; and it had ten horns.

The FOURTH BEAST is a culmination, or a coming together of all the strengths and power of the LION with the BEAR and LEOPARD under the dictatorship of the 1st beast with the mortal wound. It has ten horns, meaning ten leaders/kings.
This same fourth beast kingdom is made up of the lion, bear, leopard, and the beast with the mortal wound, equals four prominent kingdoms.

 

[Prophecy Countdown]

Rev 13: 2. And the beast which I saw was like unto a LEOPARD, and his FEET were as the feet OF A BEAR, and HIS MOUTH as the mouth OF A LION: and the dragon gave him his power, and his seat, and great authority.
Rev 13: 3. And I saw ONE OF HIS HEADS as it were WOUNDED to death; and his DEADLY WOUND WAS HEALED: and all the world wondered after the BEAST.
Three of the leaders are removed forcibly by the little horn.
Daniel 7: 8. I considered the horns, and, behold, there came up among them another little horn, before whom there were three of the first horns plucked up by the roots: and, behold, in this horn were eyes like the eyes of man, and a mouth speaking great things.

Now ten horns three plucked up to be replaced by one leaves eight.
10 minus 3 = 7 plus horn that replaces them = 8.
This one HORN starts saying things, as a result the ANCIENT of DAYS reacts.
It is at that time that Jesus/Lamb of God, is to be found worthy to judge and receive back His ‘power,’ ‘glory’ and ‘kingdom.’
Daniel 7: 9. I beheld till the thrones were cast down, and the ANCIENT of DAYS did sit, whose garment was white as snow, and the hair of his head like the pure wool: his throne was like the fiery flame, and his wheels as burning fire.

Daniel 7: 10. A fiery stream issued and came forth from before him: thousand thousands ministered unto him, and ten thousand times ten thousand stood before him: the JUDGMENT WAS SET, and the BOOKS WERE OPENED.

Everything is to be carried out precisely within the law.
LEGALLY, in and away from Heaven and as a result, the beast with the mortal wound that was healed is to be dealt with on Earth, at the second coming of Christ.

Daniel 7: 11. I beheld then because of the voice of the great words which the horn spake: I beheld even till the BEAST was SLAIN, and his BODY destroyed, and GIVEN TO THE BURNING FLAME.

Knowing that the LION, BEAR and LEOPARD become PART OF THE FOURTH BEAST MOST TERRIBLE, that is the fourth beast world kingdom, under the direction of the FIRST BEAST with the mortal wound that was healed.
We can now see, that when the beast is to be killed, his followers the three prominent beast kingdoms LION, BEAR, LEOPARD and other kingdoms, will be left to live for a short time waiting all at the SAME time to be killed at the SAME time.
Daniel 7 :12. As concerning the REST OF THE BEASTS, they had their DOMINION taken away: yet THEIR LIVES were PROLONGED FOR A SEASON AND TIME.

The lion, bear, leopard, are prominent nations being a part of many nations making up the fourth beast power, are allowed to live for a ‘season’ and ‘a time,’ which is not too much longer after the beast is killed.
May I just say this for a moment about the ‘historic view’ of these ‘time of the end’ powers, supposedly representing historic powers.

Please note that they are around in verse 12, at the SAME time so the lion, bear, leopard and fourth beast powers can’t be representative of past empires. These kingdoms/nations are all around at the time of the feet of iron and clay.
Dan 7: 13. I saw in the night visions, and, behold, one like the SON OF MAN came with the clouds of heaven, and came TO THE ANCIENT OF DAYS, and they brought HIM near before HIM.
Dan 7: 14. And there was given HIM DOMINION, and GLORY, AND A KINGDOM, that all people, NATIONS, and languages, should serve him: his dominion is an everlasting dominion, which shall not pass away, and HIS KINGDOM that which shall not be destroyed.

Dan 7: 15. I Daniel was grieved in my spirit in the midst of my body, and the visions of my head troubled me.
Dan 7: 16. I came near unto one of them that stood by, and asked him the truth of all this. So he told me, and made me know the interpretation of the things.

Now we have had the vision/hazon, the angel then gave Daniel, the enlargement of it called the mar’eh or explanation/expansion of the vision.
From the lion, rising to the second advent.

Dan 7: 17. These great beasts, which are four, are four kings, which shall arise out of the earth.

These kings or leaders, will lose their inheritance to the Saints. Which never happened to historic kingdoms.

Dan 7:18. But the SAINTS of the most High shall TAKE THE KINGDOM, and possess the kingdom for ever, even for ever and ever.
God’s children do just that, they will fight the lion, bear and leopard powers and other supporters at Armageddon.
Jesus, did say ”For if this were my kingdom, my servants would fight.”
See Rev 19 as to what happens after the wedding supper.
Verse 19 shows how the 4th beast is diverse or different, it is made up out of the previous prominent 3 beast kingdoms by their support along with other kingdoms.
Daniel, was interested in the fourth beast.
Dan 7: 19. Then I would know the truth of the fourth beast, which was diverse from all the others, exceeding dreadful, whose teeth were of iron, and his nails of brass; which devoured, brake in pieces, and stamped the residue with his feet;
Daniel was also interested in ‘that horn.’
Daniel 7: 20. And of the ten horns that were in his head, and of the other which came up, and before whom three fell; even of THAT HORN that had eyes, and a mouth that spake very great things, whose look was more stout than his fellows.
There can’t be ‘a pre-tribulation rapture.’ Because Satan/horn prevails against the SAINTS.

Dan 7: 21. I beheld, and the same HORN MADE WAR WITH THE SAINTS, and PREVAILED AGAINST THEM;

However, the Saints will possess the kingdom.
Daniel 7: 22. UNTIL the Ancient of days came, and judgment was given to the saints of the most High; and the time came that the SAINTS POSSESSED THE KINGDOM.
Dan 7: 23. Thus he said, The fourth beast shall be the fourth kingdom upon earth, which shall be diverse from all kingdoms, and shall DEVOUR THE WHOLE EARTH, and shall tread it down, and BREAK IT IN PIECES.

Dan 7: 24. And the ten horns out of this kingdom are ten kings that shall arise: and another shall rise after them; and he shall be diverse from the first, and he shall subdue three kings.

The horn/Satan who speaks against the Most High, wears out the Saints, when they are given into his hand for 3 ½ years until the Ancient Of Days returns.

Dan 7: 25. And he shall speak great words against the most High, and shall WEAR OUT THE SAINTS of the most High, and THINK TO CHANGE TIMES and LAWS: and THEY SHALL BE GIVEN INTO HIS HAND until a time and times and the dividing of time.
3 ½ years into Satan’s hands.

Satan’s realm will come to an end on Earth
Dan 7: 26. But the judgment shall sit, and they shall take away his dominion, to consume and to destroy it unto the end.

Dan 7: 27. And the kingdom and dominion, and the greatness of the kingdom under the whole heaven, shall be GIVEN to the people of the SAINTS of the MOST HIGH, whose KINGDOM is an EVERLASTING, and all dominions shall serve and obey him.

 

[Prophecy Countdown]

Dan 7: 28. Hitherto is THE END OF THE MATTER. As for me Daniel, my cogitations much troubled me, and my countenance changed in me: but I KEPT THE MATTER in my heart.

Daniel 8 continues the progression, and I want to know why the lion loses his wings.
What will shortly happen to the Western ‘alliance?’
Will it change?
Daniel 8 is a clarification of the wars that lead up to the LION losing his wings.

I realise that some of you hold that ‘the rough goat is Greece’ in verse 5 of Daniel, chapter 8.
However the following is but one of many inconsistencies with that historic idea.

From ‘THE EVERY DAY Bible Dictionary.’
Grecian. “Gre’cian, The term Grecian, Hellenist, denotes a Jew by birth or religion who spoke Greek. It is used chiefly of foreign Jews and proselytes in contrast with the Hebrews speaking the vernacular Hebrew or Aramaean. Greeks was the TERM USED FOR NON-JEWISH PEOPLE.”

‘THE EVERY DAY Bible Dictionary.’(formerly published as Peloubet’s Bible Dictionary) Copyright 1947 by Holt, Rinehart and Winston, IncCcopyright 1925, 1913 by Holt, Rinehart and Winston1967., Inc.
Copyright 1971by Zondervan Publishing House. Assigned to Zondervan Publishing House, Grand rapids Michigan,

GREECE, GREEKS, GRE´CIANS.
The histories of Greece and Palestine are little connected with each other. In Gen. 10:2-5 Moses mentions the descendants of JAVAN as PEOPLING THE ISLES OF THE GENTILES; and when the Hebrews came into contact with the Ionians of Asia Minor, and recognized them as the long-lost islanders OF THE WESTERN MIGRATION, it was natural that they should mark the similarity of sound between JAVAN and Iones. Accordingly the Old Testament word which is GRECIA in Authorized Version GREECE, GREECS, etc., IS IN HEBREW JAVAN Dan. 8:21;
William Smith; revised and edited by F.N. and M.A. Peloubet, Smith’s Bible dictionary [computer file], electronic ed., Logos Library System, (Nashville: Thomas Nelson) 1997.


“Greeks was a term used for non-Jewish peoples., meaning Gentile nations,” “A Westerner would fit the above description.”
”Bible translators have incorrectly translated the word ‘yavan’ from Aramaic, to represent, ‘Greeks’ yet it refers to the words Gentile nations.”
“The word ‘Grecia,’ translated from ‘yavan’ from Aramaic can mean Westerner.”
Credit to “THE EVERYDAY BIBLE DICTIONARY.”

Also Alexander, being involved does not fit the geographical location laid down by the chezev because Alexander, fought the Medo/Persians on the plains of Arbella, some 1000 miles from the Ulai river which is now named the ‘Karun,’ located in Iran, which will become significant later in Daniel 8:
Also the time factor of the vision by Gabriel, is made clear as being the time of the end in verse 17, 18.
Set time.
Dan 8: 17. So he came near where I stood: and when he came, I was afraid, and fell upon my face: but he said unto me, Understand, O son of man: FOR THE TIME OF THE END shall be THE VISION.
Dan 8: 19. And he said, Behold, I will make thee know what shall be in THE LAST END of the indignation: for AT THE TIME APPOINTED THE END shall be.
Set location.
Dan 8. 2. And I saw in a vision; and it came to pass, when I saw, that I was at SHUSHAN in the palace, which is in the province of ELAM; and I saw in a vision, and I WAS BY THE RIVER of ULAI.
Dan 8. 3. Then I lifted up mine eyes, and saw, and, behold, there stood BEFORE THE RIVER a RAM which had two horns: and the two horns were high; but one was higher than the other, and the higher came up last.

The symbols used in Daniel 8. Point to particular powers that rise at the time of the feet of iron and clay and certain locations are given as to where wars are to take place.

We are given geographical locations, readily recognisable named powers such as Medo/Iraq and Persians/Iran, and the belligerent dispositions of some powers at the time of the end.
I recognise the lion with eagle’s wings, as the alliance and now we will see what the alliance achieves before the lion loses its alliance partner America, therefore its wings.
The vision of Daniel 8 is a cause and effect situation. The ram is pushing North, West, and South, and there will be a reaction by the goat/yavan, from the West.

The rough goat, the American alliance will win the battle absolutely and completely, vanquishing utterly the ram, but it will be a pyrrhic victory, maybe resulting in an economic world economic depression.

The RAM I believe is a push religion, I believe it to be the Moslem religion.

Daniel 8. Certainly helps me verify my claims of the ‘lion with eagle’s wings,’ being the alliance of the UK, and USA.

Some two years had passed by since Daniel’s last dream.
The translation from Greek in verse 1. Does not mean after in time, that is a poor rendering of it. It means ‘after in kind.’
The second vision is similar, in kind, or likeness too that of the first.
Daniel Chapter 8:1. In the third year of the reign of king Belshazzar a vision appeared unto me, even unto me Daniel, AFTER THAT WHICH APPEARED UNTO ME AT THE FIRST.

Past and future Gentile powers associated with Israel, either positively or negatively, are mentioned in the Bible just because of that fact. After all it is NOT a Gentile book it is a Jewish Book, however Daniel 4, was written by king Nebuchadnezzar.

In Dan 8: 1. The angel reappears, and shows Daniel, more progression.
Daniel Chapter 8:1. “In the third year of the reign of king Belshazzar a vision appeared unto me, even unto me Daniel, after that which appeared unto me at the first.”

In the third year of Belshazzar’s reign Daniel, notes the time of the vision. It was only around two years, after the first vision recorded as chapter 7.

Daniel, did not apply this vision to the time of Belshazzar, Darius, Cyrus, Xerxes, or Artaxerxes, it is not mentioned that he had an audience with these kings to explain the vision, because Daniel, himself did not understand the meaning of Dan 7: 8: and even 9: until he got to Dan 10: 1 and then says I understood the chezev.
However, when the chezev progresses and is explained to him, he states that he does not understand it at the point it has reached in Daniel 12: 8, which is only five verses from the end of the entire book of Daniel.
So he only understands certain parts of the chezev progression and makes that clear.
Daniel 12: 8. And I heard, but I UNDERSTOOD NOT, then said I, O my Lord, WHAT THE END OF THESE?
Daniel 8:
Daniel, deep in vision finds himself standing at Shushan, in the Palace.
Shushan was in the extreme South Western part of PERSIA, Persia now called IRAN.
Now understanding that this vision is concerned with ‘THE TIME OF THE END,’ where the time marker has now come to rest, at ‘the feet of iron and clay’ on the metal time empire statue, we now have the location of this prophecy directly in Iran, so obviously therefore Iran, must be the country concerned, with the vision, that’s just plain common sense.

In the next verse we are told by Daniel, “I was by the river ULAI,” the modern name for this river is KARUN. So we have KARUN, and of course the Karun river being in IRAN.

Daniel is looking at himself in vision, standing in a clearly identified geographical location.

Daniel 8:2 And I saw in a vision; and it came to pass, when I saw, that I was at SHUSHAN in the palace, which is in the province of ELAM; and I saw in a vision, and I WAS AT THE RIVER ULAI.

 

[Prophecy Countdown]

In verse 3 we now see a ram with two horns, standing at the same geographical location. It has two horns. One of the two horns is larger and we are told that it ‘comes up last.’ After the smaller of the two.
As you know The Medes and Persians were rolled up into one Empire, that put an end to King Belshazzar and his Babylonian empire.
Now Shushan under Cyrus, was the first capital of the Medo- Persian empire.
The Persian side that is, now called Iran.
The Medes were conquered in 558 BC by Cyrus and the two countries blended into one power.
The modern name for the Medes of course is Iraq.

Interestingly we should note that Afghanistan was part of Iraq, at that time.
ELAM where the Elamites lived (highlands.) This province lay South of Assyria and East of Persia proper.
The ULAI river (modern name Karun) is in IRAN as I have already stated, however it originates in the highlands and becomes part of the Tigress & Euphrates river system known as Perath, in Hebrew.
Daniel, went into great detail as to where he was located, and where the ram was standing, and where the goat met it in combat.

We have a clear unmistakable geographical location, which is inherent within the prophecy vision and is therefore intrinsically, part of the vision being fulfilled.

We are also told what countries are to be involved, Medes/Iraqis and Persians/Iranians.
We are told of the alliance in Daniel 7 the lion with eagle’s wings and what happens to that alliance, Lion loses his wings.
Daniel, is also told when this vision is to take place. “At the time of the end.” at the feet of iron and clay. That is just before the stone is cast at the statue. Where God sets up His everlasting kingdom.

The Little horn IRAQ comes up first then the larger horn IRAN comes up later.
IRAQ has come up causing trouble, however IRAN may help IRAQ as the vision seems to imply with the two standing together as the RAM by the river Ulai/Karun which could be through the Moslem religion.
The smaller horn, Iraq came up first against Israel, with missiles and of course Israel, is an ally of America.
Iraq pushed into Kuwait which triggered problems for the Western powers and retaliation was swift.
The rough goat will deal proper, with the ram Iraq and Iran, when pushed hard enough.
Now we see on the news that the smaller horn Iraq, is in fact standing up and Iran is pushing the limits and patience of the West.
Daniel 8: 3.Then I lifted up mine eyes, and saw, and, behold, there stood before the river a ram which had two horns: and the two horns were high; but ONE WAS HIGHER than the other, and the HIGHER CAME UP LAST.

Daniel 8: 4, says that the ram was PUSHING. In the directions
Westward, Northward, and Southward.
He does not push East!
The Iranians are pushing the alliance, and are interfering in Iraq, Afghanistan and Pakistan, they are Shiite Moslems and live right through that area.
The ram “BECOMES GREAT.” He can do what he likes.

The ram with TWO HORNS becomes, ‘GREAT.’
The rough goat ONE LARGE HORN becomes, ‘VERY GREAT.’
The little horn, STOUTER THAN HIS FELLOWS becomes, ‘EXCEEDINGLY GREAT.’
I know that the Moslem religion is a push religion.
They have started to push and when the Americans find out, if they haven’t already, that it is Iran, that is in the thick of this Moslem terror business then, look out Iran!

The President of America, the most powerful nation on earth, said that the axis of evil involves ‘IRAN, IRAQ and North Korea.’
Daniel 8:4. I saw the ram pushing westward, and northward, and southward; so that no beasts might stand before him, neither was there any that could deliver out of his hand; but he did according to his will, and became GREAT.

A cause and effect situation.
Cause, The RAM will start pushing North, South and West. Maybe trying to subdue other nations like Iraq, around him. He does as he likes, he is a local bully and will become GREAT!

The effect!
He pushes too far. He does something to push the rough Goat, America to counter his belligerence.
The American alliance has had some dealings with Iran and is concerned about Israel’s safety and the possibility of Iran, having the ability to produce nuclear weapons is of great concern to the UN.
What makes America, so angry that it rushes across the whole Earth from the West to Iran?
The Goat does not touch the face of the whole Earth, travelling fast from the west.
That means ships, aircraft and missiles!
The goat has one HORN, He is so angry, no hesitation this time, he will go straight in, there is absolute determination in the goat’s attack.

Daniel 8: 5. And as I was considering, behold, an he GOAT came from the WEST on the face of the WHOLE EARTH, and touched not the ground: and the goat had a notable horn between his eyes.
The Rough Goat from the West
to finish off the smaller/Iraq which comes up first, then the higher/Iran last.
The goat doesn’t touch the ground!
Aircraft and ships and plenty of them, covering the “WHOLE EARTH.”
The powerful goat rushes straight into the ram’s territory.

Daniel 8: 6. And he came to the ram that had two horns, which I had seen standing before the river, and ran unto him in the fury of his power.

As the Goat, gets closer to the Ram, the goat is moved with choler, which is an old English word for anger, the goat moves with such force and rage against the Ram, he annihilates him.
Puts him down permanently. No power on earth will be able to stop the rough goat from doing what he likes to the two horned ram Iraq /Iran.

Daniel 8: 7. And I saw him come close unto the ram, and he was moved with choler against him, and smote the ram, and brake his two horns: and there was no power in the ram to stand before him, but he cast him down to the ground, and stamped upon him: and there was none that could deliver the ram out of his hand

The two horns are broken Iraq and Iran and the ram the Moslem religious forces are fixed to the ground and held their.
Will America survive this?
Will this cause the break up of the alliance?
Will the alliance now represented as the goat, lose power?
The financial burden of these Eastern wars is crippling for the economy of the United States and to Britain and others within the alliance.
At the point where the victors, become ‘very great’ at the pinnacle of their power, the great horn on the goat is broken and is divided four ways, ‘four notable ones toward the four winds of heaven rise up.’

Daniel 8: 8.Therefore the he goat waxed VERY GREAT: and when he was strong, the great horn was broken; and for it came up four notable ones toward the four winds of heaven.

 

[Prophecy Countdown]

Something divides the alliance between Britain and America where the lion, loses his wings and so the one very great horn breaks and four notable ones rise up.
A power division. A vacuum is created for other world powers to fill the vacant spot left by the alliance.
The lion loses his wings and given the heart of a man and made to stand like a man the bear/Russia rises. Then the leopard rises until the beast with the mortal wound shows up and the fourth beast power rises and the little horn becomes ‘exceedingly great.’

America pays out millions of dollars and has done so, to the Turks, Also to Afghanistan and other nations.
Billions of dollars to rebuild the infrastructure of Iraq.
This has cost the U S dearly. How does the greatest nation on earth that becomes “VERY GREAT” suddenly lose its power?
What a mess we are going into and what an opportunity for Satan, and the beast, to take advantage of.
Could we be going into a world financial catastrophic nightmare, is it just waiting to happen and who would take advantage of it?

Rev 13: 17. And that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name.

Will America survive?
This war with Iraq/Iran will be won by America, no doubt about it, however it will be a pyrrhic victory?

A political power vacuum will be the result for only a short time, we will see the lion stand alone without his eagle’s wings as the bear/Russia rises up then the leopard power rise up.
I have an idea but I am not sure what power is represented by the leopard.
Now we see a bleep on the radar screen.

Daniel 8: 9. And out of one of them came forth a LITTLE HORN, which waxed exceedingly great
toward the south, and toward the east, and toward the pleasant land.
Which way is he pushing? He is pushing SOUTH and EAST and toward the pleasant land. Israel.

Why does this fellow, the LITTLE HORN want to get into Israel?
What is his motive?
Where does he want to sit?
Could it be where he ought not?

Isaiah 14: 12. How art thou fallen from heaven, O LUCIFER, SON OF THE MORNING! how art thou cut down to the GROUND, which didst WEAKEN THE NATIONS!

It is Lucifer, ‘angel of the morning,’ that is to weaken THE NATIONS on earth.
He wants to sit on that mount.
Isaiah 14: 13. For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the MOUNT OF THE CONGREGATION, in the SIDES OF THE NORTH:

The MOUNT IN THE SIDES OF THE NORTH of the CONGREGATION.
That is The TEMPLE MOUNT of the CONGREGATION.
In Jerusalem, in the ‘PLEASANT LAND.’

Why does Satan, sit where he ought not? He wants to be like God. He wants the Temple mount as his.
Psalm 48: 1. Great is the LORD, and greatly to be praised in the city of our God, in the mountain of his holiness.
2. Beautiful for situation, the joy of the whole earth, is MOUNT ZION, on the sides of the north, the city of the great King.

Daniel 8: 10. And it waxed great, even to the host of heaven; and it cast down some of the host and of the stars to the ground, and stamped upon them.

Satan, the accuser grows, increases, swells, becomes ‘exceedingly great’ even to the host.

Daniel 8: 11. Yea, he magnified himself even to the prince of the host, and by him THE DAILY WAS TAKEN AWAY, and the place of HIS SANCTUARY WAS CAST DOWN.

The word (sacrifice ) in the King James version was added by the translators however Daniel, did not use it, so I have removed it.
Daniel 8: 12. And an host was given him against the daily by reason of transgression, and it cast down the truth to the ground; and it practised, and prospered.

The translation should read.
A host is given AGAINST THE PLACE OF THE DAILY BY REASON OF TRANSGRETION. ( violating a rule or law)

Daniel 8: 13. Then I heard one saint speaking, and another saint said unto that certain saint which spake, How LONG SHALL BE THE VISION CONCERNING the DAILY, and THE TRANSGRETION of DESOLATION, to give both the SANCTUARY and the HOST to be TRODDEN UNDER FOOT?

In plain English one Angel asks. How long is the vision and how long will he get away with all this?

Daniel 8:14. And he said unto me, Unto two thousand and three hundred days; then shall the sanctuary be cleansed.

Now the proper translation is 2300 EREB/BOQER meaning
evening and morning. Which equals six and a bit years and not ‘2300 years’ as some try to claim which is not correct from the words ereb boqer

We are told that Satan, shall seek to change laws and times and that God’s people will be given into his hands for 3 ½ years.
So as I have said, the ‘pre- rapture’ doesn’t ring quite true.
Daniel 7: 25. And he shall speak great words against the most High, and shall wear out the saints of the most High, and think to change TIMES AND LAWS: and they shall be given into his hand until a time and times and the dividing of time.

Satan, mimics Jesus, he looks like a lamb but speaks like a dragon. He also looks like an angel of light.
Satan, seeks to change the laws and times, he has to beat the fullness of time set by the Father.
Satan, will have laws changed.
Daniel 9: 27. 27. And he shall confirm the COVENANT with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.
Can we expect a counterfeit?
Yes we can.
2 Cor 11: 14. And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light.
2 Cor 11:15. no great thing if his ministers also be transformed as the ministers of righteousness, whose end shall be according to their works.

When Jesus, gets rid of Lucifer, the ”abomination that causes desolation,” from the Temple mount at the sides of the North, the mount of the congregation, and the Gentiles out of the place of the daily. Then and only then will the Sanctuary be cleansed.
As I said, 2300 ereb/evening and boqer/morning. That’s about 6 and a bit years for the troubles on Earth to end for the Saints.
Eccept for the lion, bear, leopard powers, they will be put to the sword.
Dan 8; 15. And it came to pass, when I, even I Daniel, had seen the vision, and sought for the meaning, then, behold, there stood before me as the appearance of a man.

Daniel, like us all wanted to know the meaning of the chezev not just part of it, BUT ALL OF IT!.

 

[Prophecy Countdown]

Dan 8; 16. And I heard a man’s voice between the banks of ULAI, which called, and said, Gabriel, make this man to understand the vision.

Now the Angel Gabriel, is a big Angel, however he is not the Arc angel. However he is awesome to Daniel, and Daniel, doesn’t realise how big, until he gets really close to him to make a CERTAIN POINT, even before he gets into the hazon/explanation of the vision.
THE POINT he made was very clear!
’Understand, O son of man: FOR AT THE TIME OF THE END SHALL BE THE VISION.’
So that statements puts paid to the Alexander, idea.
Gabriel, this mighty Angel was making that point, and he scared the living daylights out of Daniel, doing so.
Daniel, by that time was quite elderly.

Daniel 8: 17. He came NEAR where I stood: and when he came, I was afraid, and fell upon my face: but he said unto me, UNDERSTAND, O son of man: FOR AT THE TIME OF THE END SHALL BE THE VISION.

The CLEAR UNMASTAKABLE message is made so let me repeat it so the historian’s view of interpreting the vision can be put to rest.
“UNDERSTAND, O son of man: “FOR AT THE TIME OF THE END shall be THE VISION.”
And that is at the feet of the time metal empire statue. The time marker is now SET and resting at the feet of iron and clay.
We have yet to see the stone cast at the statue when Jesus, brings in His kingdom.

Daniel 8: 18. Now as he was speaking with me, I was in a deep sleep on my face toward the ground: but he touched me, and set me upright.

Daniel 8: 19. And he said, Behold, I will make thee know what shall be in THE LAST END OF THE INDIGNATION: FOR AT THE TIME APPOINTED THE END shall be.

For the Life of me, I can’t understand why some insist that this vision has been fulfilled long ago in the past. Time after time after time Gabriel, states the TIME concerned, how can those that push the historic interpretation ignore that fact?

Here we have Iraq and Iran, mentioned by name as the two horns on the ram.

Daniel 8: 20. The ram which thou sawest having two horns are the kings of Media and Persia.
How clear is that? The previous verse to the last states the time of the end shall be the vision and the last verse names the powers involved.

Verse 21. is construed by some as meaning the ‘Greek empire under Alexander the great’ as somehow representing the rough goat.
Those ideas are erroneous as we have studied earlier because of the TIME and LOCATION factor, involved and the meaning of the word ‘yavan.’
‘Grecia.’ is not as some claim as being GREEK in this context.

Daniel 8: 21. And the rough goat is the king of Grecia: and the great horn that is between his eyes is the first king.

“Greeks was a term used for non-Jewish peoples., meaning Gentile nations,” “A Westerner would fit the above description.”
Bible translators have incorrectly translated the word ‘yavan’ from Aramaic, to represent, ‘Greeks’ yet it refers to the words Gentile nations.”
The word ‘Grecia,’ translated from ‘yavan’ from Aramaic can mean Westerner.
Credit to “THE EVERYDAY BIBLE DICTIONARY.”

Daniel 8: 22. Now that being broken, whereas four stood up for it, four kingdoms shall stand up out of the nation, but not in his power.

Some argue that the above verse represents ‘Alexander the Great who defeated the Medo/Persians.’

However Daniel 8 clearly indicates that the battle between the GOAT and RAM will occur at the river ULAI.

As I said the problem with the historic view is that Alexander, defeated the Medes and Persians in 321BC on the PLAINS OF ARBELLA around 1000 MILES FROM THE ULAI RIVER, modern name Karun in Iran.

So, the TIMING is off, which is much too early and not at ‘the time of the end’ concerning the vision.

Also the LOCATION of the battle, is way off by some 1000 miles on the plains of Arbella!

Now for another point , let’s look at the identification of the “first king.”

Daniel 8: 21. And the rough goat is the king of Grecia: and the great horn that is between his eyes is the FIRST KING.

Alexander was NOT the “first king” he followed his father Philip 3.
The only ‘first king’ leader or president who is number one at ‘the time of the end,’ top man within the western Gentile nations, at the feet of the empire metal time statue, is the President of the most powerful nation ever known on Earth. Number ONE the United States of America.

Also when we add the alliance nations it packs a huge wallop but America, could easily do it alone but restraint and control of its power is the thing that makes America ‘very great’ as a nation. The alliance Lion with eagles wings from the West, Gentile nations fits the translation of Grecian/yavan.

Daniel 8: 23. And in the latter time of their kingdom, when the transgressors are come to the full, a king of fierce countenance, and understanding dark sentences, shall stand up.

Daniel 8: 24. And his power shall be mighty, but not by his own power: and he shall destroy wonderfully, and SHALL PROSPER , and practise, and shall destroy THE MIGHTY and THE HOLY PEOPLE.
A ‘pre-tribulation rapture?” I’m afraid is not in the script.
The word ‘peace’ is used but it should translate by his PROSPERITY shall destroy many.

Daniel 8: 25. And through his policy also he shall cause CRAFT to prosper in his hand; and he shall magnify himself in his heart, and by PEACE shall destroy many: he shall also stand up against the Prince of princes; but he shall be broken without hand.

Craft is an old English word for witchcraft, magic.
“By peace shall destroy many.” The Greek translation reads,
By his prosperity he shall destroy many.
This is speaking of those who accept the mark of the beast to be able to buy or sell. It’s all tied up with Rev 13:17.

Rev 13: 17. And that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name.
Are people going to trade their freedom for prosperity?

France had supported the war of American independence and in supporting America the French franc was rendered worthless.
Napoleon came along offering prosperity but at the price of freedom and as a consequence, a dictatorship took over. France. Madam guillotine and all its horrors were witnessed. Spies were everywhere finger pointers. The dictator wanted to expand his power. War broke out in Europe and in Russia. For France, it was a disaster.

 

[Prophecy Countdown]

Another example.
Germany, after the first world war was cold stony broke. It took a bucket loads of German marks to by a loaf of bread, the standard of living went through the basement.
Adolf Hitler, came along and said ‘I have all the economic answers for prosperity’ and at the cost of freedom for promised prosperity, Germany became a dictatorship.
As in France, then in Germany, and conquered countries innocent victims were murdered, over six million Jews.

War in Europe broke out as Hitler, wanted to expand his power and for Germany, it was a disaster.

Please don’t tell me that people won’t trade their freedom for economic prosperity, if they have no idea of prophecy warnings of these things, some will do just that to keep their standard of living, and ‘by his prosperity shall destroy many.’
There shall be wars and disaster that will follow.
Now back to Daniel 8.
Again the time concerning the vision, is stated that it is not for many days.
Note, when we study Daniel, further we must understand that the time of understanding of the chezev is SET for ‘the time of the end.’ Even though knowledge will be increased by the study of it, the understanding of it completely, will happen at that time only.
Shut it up, lock the understanding of the vision until….‘The time of the end’
The 2300 ereb/boqer is at ‘the time of the end’ and it will not be understood until that time.
Daniel 8: 26. And the vision of the evening and the morning which was told is true: wherefore shut thou up the vision; for it shall be for many days.

Daniel 8: 27. And I Daniel fainted, and was sick certain days; afterward I rose up, and did the king’s business; and I was astonished at the vision, but NONE UNDERSTOOD IT.

Poor Daniel, he wanted to understand but how could he? There were no powers or circumstances back then, to even hazard a guess, that would even mildly conform to the last vision and Daniel, started to realise that fact and it caused him upset and worry.
Now If you have the time, please read Revelation, following and the characters and their devious plans and see if it is familiar to you. It is the same story only the little book is opened in Revelation and has everything to do with the study of Daniel.

Rev 13: 1. And I stood upon the sand of the sea, and saw a beast rise up out of the sea, having seven heads and ten horns, and upon his horns ten crowns, and upon his heads the name of blasphemy.

The now familiar powers named the lion, bear, leopard become part of the fourth kingdom
Rev 13: 2. And the beast which I saw was like unto a LEOPARD, and his feet were as of a BEAR, and his mouth as the mouth of a LION: and the DRAGON gave him his power, and his seat, and great AUTHORITY.

Rev 13: 3.. And I saw ONE OF THE HEADS as it were WOUNDED TO DEATH, and his deadly WOUND WAS HEALED: and all the world wondered after the BEAST.

There are some that claim that “the mortal wound was given to pope Pius V1in 1798 when Napoleon, sent Berthier, in to take over.” “Now that the catholic church has recovered, the mortal wound is now healed.”
Others claim that the mortal wound was given to Rome in 476AD.
There are many varied historic versions and all claim to be right.
However this is what the Bible says.
Gen 3: 15. And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall BRUISE THY HEAD, and thou shalt bruise HIS HEEL.

Rev 13: 4. And they worshipped THE DRAGON WHICH GAVE POWER UNTO THE BEAST: and they worshipped the beast, saying, Who is like unto the beast? who is able to make war with him?

Does the time span of this next verse seem familiar to you?

Rev 13: 5. And there was given unto him a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies; and power was given unto him to continue FORTY TWO MONTHS.
He blasphemes God and all that are in Heaven and God’s tabernacle.
Rev 13: 6. And he opened his mouth in blasphemy against God, to blaspheme his name, and HIS TABERNACLE, and them that dwell in heaven.

The next verse states clearly that the power of the Saints is to be scattered for ‘a time times and a half a time Dan 12: 7.
Let’s have a quick look at Daniel 12: 7 again.

Dan 12:7. And I heard the man clothed in linen, which was upon the waters of the river, when he held up his right hand and his left hand unto heaven, and sware by him that liveth for ever that it shall be for a TIME, TIMES, , and AN HALF; and when he shall have accomplished to scatter the power of the holy people, all these things shall be finished.
The Saints on Earth will be given over to him.
Rev 13: 7. And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations.

All the unsaved will worship the beast.

Rev 13: 8. And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are NOT written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.

Rev 13: 9. If any man have an ear, let him hear.
Rev 13: 10. He that leadeth into captivity shall go into captivity: he that killeth with the sword must be killed with the sword. Here is the patience and the faith of the saints.

Satan, will appear as an angel of light. He will appear after the first beast with the mortal wound shows up.
Rev 13: 11. And I beheld another beast coming up out of the earth; and he had two horns like a LAMB, and he spake as a dragon.

Rev 13: 12. And he exerciseth all the power of the FIRST beast before him, and causeth the earth and them which dwell therein to worship the first beast, whose deadly wound was healed.
A false angel of light performing wonders in the sight of men.
Rev 13: 13. And he doeth great wonders, so that he maketh fire come down from heaven on the earth in the sight of men.
There is a danger in believing that ‘every miracle is from God.’
How many people believe that blood and tears from statues is a miracle from God?
Or that the so called ‘appearances of mother Mary, are miracles from God?’
What about Fatima, appearing in front of Moslems?
Millions upon millions of them and they are wide open to being deluded by satanic forces.

Rev 13: 14. And deceiveth them that dwell on the earth by the means of those miracles which he had power to do in the sight of the beast; saying to them that dwell on the earth, that they should make an IMAGE OF THE BEAST, which had the wound by a sword, and did live.

Rev 13: 15. And HE HAD POWER TO GIVE LIFE UNTO THE IMAGE OF THE BEAST, that the IMAGE of the beast should both SPEAK, and cause that as many as would not worship the image of the beast should be killed.
Pre-tribulation rapture, is still not in the script.

 

[Prophecy Countdown]

Rev 13: 16. And he causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their right hand, or in their foreheads:
Rev 13: 17. And that no man might BUY OR SELL, save he that had the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name.

Rev 13: 18. Here is wisdom. Let him that hath understanding count the number of the beast: for it is the number of a man; and his number is Six hundred threescore and six.
Satan, will become a man.
Isaiah 14: 12. How art thou fallen from heaven, O LUCIFER, son of the morning! how ART THOU CUT DOWN TO THE GROUND which didst weaken the nations!
Isaiah 14: 13. For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I WILL SIT ON THE MOUNT OF THE CONGREGATION, in the SIDES OF THE NORTH:
Isaiah 14: 14. I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be LIKE THE MOST HIGH.
Isaiah 14: 15. Yet thou shalt be brought down to hell, to the sides of the pit.
Isaiah 14: 16. THEY THAT SEE THEE SHALL NARROWLY LOOK UPON THEE, and CONSIDER THEE, saying, Is THIS THE MAN that made the EARTH TREMBLE, that did shake kingdoms;

There was no vision given to Daniel, about the 70 years of captivity, just the writings of Jeremiah.
Daniel 9.
Darius the Mede an Iraqi was in power, the Medo/Persian empire reigned supreme.
The Head of Gold Babylon had been replaced with the arms and shoulders of silver Medo/Persian empire. (Dan 2: 32. Dan 2: 38)
The Medo/Persian empire was now firmly established, see Dan 2 : 39.

Nebuchadnezzar’s son Belshazaar, was now dead and the Babylonian empire, had faded in history right before Daniel’s eyes.
Darius the Mede was now king over the Chaldeans.
Daniel 9:1. In the first year of Darius the son of Ahasuerus, of the seed of the Medes, which was made king over the realm of the Chaldeans;

Jeremiah’s books were diligently studied by Daniel.
Daniel, came to the conclusion that the fulfilment of the 70 years of captivity for Israel, was about up.

The cause of her captivity was simple.
Jeremiah 25: 8. Therefore thus saith the LORD of hosts; Because ye have NOT HEARD MY WORDS,
Jeremiah 25: 9. Behold, I will send and take all the families of the north, saith the LORD, and Nebuchadnezzar the king of Babylon, my servant, and will bring them against this land, and against the inhabitants thereof, and against all these nations round about, and will utterly destroy them, and make them an astonishment, and an hissing, and perpetual desolations.

Jeremiah 25: 10. Moreover I will TAKE FROM THE voice of mirth, and the voice of gladness, the voice of the BRIDEGROOM, and the voice of the BRIDE, the sound of the millstones, and the light of the candle.
Jeremiah 25: 11. And this whole land shall be a desolation, and an astonishment; and these nations shall SERVE THE KING OF BABYLON SEVENTY YEARS.

At the time when Israel, was taken to Babylon Daniel, was a very young man but now, he was an old man.
Dan 9: 2. “In the first year of his reign I Daniel understood BY BOOKS the NUMBER OF THE YEARS, whereof the word of the LORD came to Jeremiah the prophet, that he would accomplish SEVENTY YEARS in the desolations of Jerusalem.”

Jeremiah 25: 12. And it shall come to pass, WHEN THE SEVENTY YEARS ARE ACCOMPLISHED, I will PUNISH THE KING OF BABYLON, and that NATION, saith the LORD, for their iniquity, and the land of the Chaldeans, and will make it perpetual desolations.
Jeremiah 25: 13. And I will bring upon that land all my words which I have pronounced against it, even all that is written in this book, which JEREMIAH HATH PROPHESIED against all the nations.

Jeremiah 29:8. “For thus saith the LORD of hosts, the God of Israel; Let not your prophets and your diviners, that in the midst of you, deceive you, neither hearken to your dreams which ye cause to be dreamed.”

The Lord, gave warnings through Jeremiah, about false prophetic statements.
Jeremiah 29: 9 “For they prophesy falsely unto you in my name: I have not sent them, saith the LORD.”
Daniel, held on to the promise that Israel, would be free after the seventy years of captivity.
Jeremiah 29: 10. “For thus saith the LORD, That AFTER SEVENTY YEARS BE ACCOMPLISHED at BABYLON I will VISIT YOU, and perform MY GOOD WORD TOWARD YOU, in CAUSING you to RETURN to this place.”

Daniel, believed that they were about to go home and no doubt would have been pleased about this promise. “AFTER SEVENTY YEARS BE ACCOMPLISHED at BABYLON I WILL VISIT YOU, and perform MY GOOD WORD TOWARD YOU, in CAUSING you to RETURN to this place.”

There was not a vision given to Daniel, about the 70 YEARS OF CAPTIVITY, just the writings from the Prophet Jeremiah, yet Daniel, believed it was to happen soon and enquired of God, in prayer and supplication.
Jeremiah 29: 11. “For I know the thoughts that I think toward you, saith the LORD, thoughts of PEACE, and NOT OF EVIL, to give you an EXPECTED END.”
Jeremiah 29: 12. THEN SHALL YE CALL UPON ME, and YE SHALL GO AND PRAY UNTO ME, and I WILL HEARKEN unto you.

Straight away Daniel, started earnestly seeking God in prayer. Because God, states that He will listen, there were petitions and pleadings needed, because the prophecy was conditional on that happening and of course, it did.
Jeremiah 29: 13. And ye shall SEEK ME, and FIND ME, when ye shall SEARCH FOR ME with ALL YOUR HEART.

Daniel, was earnest in his pleadings, searching for the promised intentions of God to be fulfilled.
Jeremiah 29: 14. “And I will be found of you, saith the LORD: and I will turn away your CAPTIVITY, and I will GATHER you from ALL the NATIONS, and from ALL the PLACES whither I have driven you, saith the LORD; and I WILL bring you again INTO THE PLACE whence I caused you to be carried away captive.”

The Israelites were scattered all around that region and it was now time for them to return to Israel. This Daniel, understood!
Dan 9. 3 “And I set my face unto the Lord God, to seek by prayer and supplications, with fasting, and sackcloth, and ashes:”

Daniel, now pleading for his people, and did so for quite a few verses.
How humble Daniel the Prophet was. He was an honourable man who was ‘highly thought of in Heaven.’
Dan 9 .4 “And I prayed unto the LORD my God, and made my confession, and said, O Lord, the great and dreadful God, keeping the covenant and mercy to them that love him, and to them that keep his commandments;”

Daniel, was very careful to admit and recognise Israel’s failings in its sins but recognising the MERCY of God, which God, loves to demonstrate he confessed his own sins.
Dan 9: 5 “We have sinned, and have committed iniquity, and have done wickedly, and have rebelled, even by departing from thy precepts and from thy judgements:”
Dan 9: 6. “Neither have we hearkened unto thy servants the prophets, which spake in thy name to our kings, our princes, and our fathers, and to all the people of the land.”
Dan 9: 7. “O Lord, righteousness unto thee, but unto us confusion of faces, as at this day; to the men of Judah, and to the inhabitants of Jerusalem, and unto all Israel, near, and far off, through all the countries whither thou hast driven them, because of their trespass that they have trespassed against thee.”

Daniel 9: 8. “O Lord, to us confusion of face, to our kings, to our princes, and to our fathers, because we have sinned against thee.”
Daniel 9: 9. “To the Lord our God mercies and forgivenesses, though we have rebelled against him;”
Daniel 9: 10. “Neither have we obeyed the voice of the LORD our God, to walk in his laws, which he set before us by his servants the prophets.”

Daniel 9: 11. “Yea, all Israel have transgressed thy law, even by departing, that they might not obey thy voice; therefore the curse is poured upon us, and the oath that written in the law of Moses the servant of God, because we have sinned against him.”

Daniel, was not only praying for Israel, but he places himself beneath them, as a chief sinner. The humility of this man is astonishing, and the righteousness of Daniel, cannot be denied, he was such a good man and humble Servant of God.
Daniel 9: 12. “And he hath confirmed his words, which he spake against us, and against our judges that judged us, by bringing upon us a great evil: for under the whole heaven hath not been done as hath been done upon Jerusalem.”
Daniel 9: 13. “As it is written in the LAW OF MOSES, all this evil is come upon us: yet made we not our prayer before the LORD our God, that we might turn from our iniquities, and understand thy truth.”

Matt 18: 21. “Then came Peter to him, and said, Lord, how oft shall my brother sin against me, and I forgive him? till seven times? 22Jesus saith unto him, I say not unto thee, Until seven times: but, Until SEVENTY TIMES SEVEN.”
The above is why I don’t see God, as a hard seventy times seven punishing task master. Daniel, knew that too, that’s why he asked for mercy from the law of Moses.