The Pastor King (New)

[truefiction1]

I speak the truth from the holy scripture and you act as if you don't want to be bothered with the facts. You have already decided that your religion is right despite what any say or what the scriptures say.

This is great error and your whole ritualistic traditions of men is contrary to the New testament church order and understanding of the real mystery.

The communion of the saints has always been in Christ and eating and drinking his spiritual meat and drink (1 Cor 10:3-5) and we are one bread and partakers of that one bread

Jesus said he would come into them and sup with them . This inward supper is the participation with him. and with one another.

Sadly in a ritualistic, dry man made religious form. This body ministry where Christ is the head is quenched often. It is dominated by a one man pastor, or priest who is exalted over all and who alone has freedom of the ministry and speaking in the assembly. This cuts off the one bread and one body aspect and the mutual edifying and partaking of that one bread in the spirit as Christ leads.

Paul warns of those who have a form of godliness but deny the power, from such to withdraw from

The power of the Holy Spirit in the body will give gifts and unction to those who wait on the Lord. Every joint supplies according to the effectual working in the measure of every part when the body ifs free to function under Christ headship.

Then God works in every part to make them perfect unto all good works.

As all the body draws night unto God in their hearts he draws nigh unto us. As we let the peace of God rule (govern in our hearts) then we can Let the word of Christ dwell in us richly teaching and admonishing one another (Col 3:15,16 1 Cor 14:26-38, 1 Peter 4:10,11 etc etc).

Then we can have true fellowship and communion in Christ and with one another

No. Your religion is the product of your prelest. The rites practiced in the Church were instituted by Christ and established by the Apostles. The fact that their are many "long robe wearing hypocrites" milling about in the Church does nothing to effect a rejection of the Apostolic Way, no matter what you think. Sorry.

 

[LoveofTruth]

Jesus said "my flesh is meat indeed and my blood is drink indeed", and "Take, eat, this is my body" and "Drink of it all of you, this is my blood". His body and His blood save us. He says so. So you are simply misapplying his teachings against the carnality of this fallen world to deny what He says of His own "Life giving" body and blood. You shouldn't do that.

John 6:27
"Labour not for the meat which perisheth, but for that meat which endureth unto everlasting life, which the Son of man shall give unto you: for him hath God the Father sealed."

John 4:32
"But he said unto them, I have meat to eat that ye know not of."

John 4:34
Jesus saith unto them, My meat is to do the will of him that sent me, and to finish his work."

and we read

"58 This is that bread which came down from heaven: not as your fathers did eat manna, and are dead: he that eateth of this bread shall live for ever."

Here we see that the bread Jesus speaks of was from heaven and came down. The bread that they did eat was the "manna" and this is not the true bread that Jesus speaks of. Yet the Manna in the wilderness was a physical small cakes of bread. This is not the true bread from heaven. If the so called "host" of many assemblies is the true bread, then what difference is it from the manna in the wilderness?

 

[LoveofTruth]

No. Your religion is the product of your prelest. The rites practiced in the Church were instituted by Christ and established by the Apostles. The fact that their are many "long robe wearing hypocrites" milling about in the Church does nothing to effect a rejection of the Apostolic Way, no matter what you think. Sorry.

show me in the New testament such long robes and rites in scripture. I said from scripture, not from man made traditions.

The early believers were simple humble men and women who gathered in homes and loved others, spreading the gospel.

 

[truefiction1]

"Thy word was found and I did eat"

Jesus said the flesh profiteth nothing, the words he spoke they are spirit and they are life.

Man shall not live by bread alone but by every word of God.

Note that you made no mention of the role of the Holy Spirit in any way here. I noticed it right off. This is the characteristic of those who are afflicted with "pride of intellect". To such, their thoughts alone are enough to save them, so all they need are the right words and proper understandings of the words. The need for the intercession of the Holy Spirit is forgotten about.

This is Prelest of the most awful sort. A miracle is needed to save them who become afflicted with this most foul of spiritual diseases. I am honestly hoping that you are not truly afflicted in this way so that you still learn from God about His Divine Mysteries.

show me in the New testament such long robes and rites in scripture. I said from scripture, not from man made traditions.

The early believers were simple humble men and women who gathered in homes and loved others, spreading the gospel.

Times changed, and the conditions under which the Christians live and worship have changed many times throughout the 2000 plus years since Christ established His Church. It's still the same Church. It had sinners in it causing various problems from the beginning, all throughout, and even now. There were always hypocrites practicing religion alongside those who were not hypocrites. A long robe doesn't make a person a hypocrite. Hypocrisy is in the heart.

This that I will now say is important: If hypocrisy subtly exists in our own hearts (i.e. the passion of vainglory), we will refuse to be aware of its existence in ourselves and project it onto other people whose appearance give us justification for doing so. My Lord has a saying: "Judge not, lest you be judged" (Matthew 7:2) because He knows that all such judgment springs from a heart full of evil.

If we automatically condemn a person for their appearance, it's only by the evil within our own hearts that we don't own up to. The Orthodox faith is the practice of spiritual warfare. You fight the passions in your heart and the demons bringing evil thoughts with all the weapons and protections God has given. The Holy Spirit intervenes and rewards with victory and the heart is purified. The log of passions thus being removed from your own spiritual eye, you see clearly, with Love, and can remove the splinter in your brother's eye. If you judge, you are not seeing things as they really are: you are only seeing things as you are, in your heart. I have to say this because of your "blanket" condemnation of all Christians wearing long robes. It's obvious that something is amiss in this recurring concern of yours. This is like if I refuse to wear a robe and then point at people who do and say, "see, I'm righteous because I listen to the word of God and don't go about in long robes to be seen in the marketplace to be someone special! O, how superior my spiritual qualities are to those proud hypocrites in those fancy religious garments! They are children of their father, the devil, like the Pharisees before them,while I, on the other hand, know how to live according to the law spoken by Jesus. I thank Thee, O Lord, that I am not like those Pharisees... those vain hypocrites... but I read and listen to your words and do not do the things that they do."

The Orthodox say instead... Lord, have mercy on me, the most wretched and useless of all Your servants. They are able to say this and really believe it because of the grace of the Holy Spirit, Who fills them with True humility.

 

[truefiction1]

Once filled with the Holy Spirit, your heart pure and mind illumined by the uncreated Light that radiates from the essence of God, You will be able to recognize the presence of the same Holy Spirit in many of those long robe wearing men of God. Then you will know that some of those in the long robes have knowledge of God beyond what you've ever imagined or realized as being possible. This is the spiritual state that you need to acquire. I implore you to resist all this evil judgment of those people and things that your heart and mind, in its current state, compels you to engage in. It's not the sort of life that God wills for us.

 

[LoveofTruth]

Once filled with the Holy Spirit, your heart pure and mind illumined by the uncreated Light that radiates from the essence of God, You will be able to recognize the presence of the same Holy Spirit in many of those long robe wearing men of God. Then you will know that some of those in the long robes have knowledge of God beyond what you've ever imagined or realized as being possible. This is the spiritual state that you need to acquire. I implore you to resist all this evil judgment of those people and things that your heart and mind, in its current state, compels you to engage in. It's not the sort of life that God wills for us.

I simply believe Jesus words I’m not judging the hearts of any,

Luke 20 - 46. Beware of the scribes, which desire to walk in long robes, and love greetings in the markets, and the highest seats in the synagogues, and the chief rooms at feasts;”

Obviously this was important enough for Jesus to warn about. He is warning against men exalting themselves over others in their functions and who love to be the highest over others and the chief seats over others.

Jesus said the greatest shall be servants not as Lord’s over others and he warned those in the church of having dominion over others and authority upon others like the Gentile rulers.

“

 

[LoveofTruth]

The Eucharist is the Kingdom of Heaven. But it cannot be the Kingdom of Heaven for those who cannot discern the presence of God in it.

Acts 7 - 48. Howbeit the most High dwelleth not in temples made with hands; as saith the prophet, 49. Heaven is my throne, and earth is my footstool: what house will ye build me? saith the Lord: or what is the place of my rest? 50. Hath not my hand made all these things? 51. Ye stiffnecked and uncircumcised in heart and ears, ye do always resist the Holy Ghost: as your fathers did, so do ye.”

 

[FireDragon76]

I have to agree with @truefiction1. You're needlessly judging 500+ million Christians based on externalities like vestments and church order.

 

[truefiction1]

I simply believe Jesus words I’m not judging the hearts of any,

Luke 20 - 46. Beware of the scribes, which desire to walk in long robes, and love greetings in the markets, and the highest seats in the synagogues, and the chief rooms at feasts;”

Obviously this was important enough for Jesus to warn about. He is warning against men exalting themselves over others in their functions and who love to be the highest over others and the chief seats over others.

Jesus said the greatest shall be servants not as Lord’s over others and he warned those in the church of having dominion over others and authority upon others like the Gentile rulers.

“

Times have changed since Jesus spoke those words. That is not how every shepherd who wears a long robe is, in the Church of Jesus Christ. Have you ever been to Mt. Athos? Everybody who resides there wears a long black robe. It is the dress code of all monks, and that is all. There, you are not special if you wear a black robe, you are just like everyone else there. You would be special if you wore bright colored clothing to attract attention to yourself. That is why everybody wears the same long black robe. If you wore a long black robe to the supermarket in any American city today you would be very out of place and probably an object of scorn and ridicule. In my Lord's day, fasting was considered a thing that a hypocrite could show as a sign of their worth, which is why Jesus said "they disfigure their faces so as to be seen as fasting". Today nobody fasts for religious reasons, and people don't even have the slightest idea why anyone would do such a stupid thing. As a matter of fact, where I am, people consider it silly and foolish to the utmost degree to believe in God, let alone fast for religious reasons. I haven't met a single person outside the Orthodox Church who knows why fasting ought to be done, and what is even more ridiculous to almost everyone of my peers in society, is to believe that Jesus is risen from the dead. To them, You are just insane and an imbecile to believe such nonsense these days. Things have changed, and long robes aren't a code of honor in our world. They are a sign of a fool. Vainglory lives in dead hearts, not in long robes. Jesus denounced the passions of pride and vainglory, which he saw when looking into the hearts of the scribes and Pharisees of His day. He never said that the ordained leaders in His Church could not adhere to a dress code, or that doing so turned them into hypocrites.

 

[truefiction1]

Acts 7 - 48. Howbeit the most High dwelleth not in temples made with hands; as saith the prophet, 49. Heaven is my throne, and earth is my footstool: what house will ye build me? saith the Lord: or what is the place of my rest? 50. Hath not my hand made all these things? 51. Ye stiffnecked and uncircumcised in heart and ears, ye do always resist the Holy Ghost: as your fathers did, so do ye.”

Human beings are not temples made with human hands. They are fashioned by God in His image, in order to become in His likeness by the indwelling of the Holy Spirit. The Kingdom of heaven is "within you".

 

[LoveofTruth]

Human beings are not temples made with human hands. They are fashioned by God in His image, in order to become in His likeness by the indwelling of the Holy Spirit. The Kingdom of heaven is "within you".

I was talking about your bread God made with your hands and a few words and actions to make the bread God.

Jesus also said

Luke 17:21
Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you."

that very verse you quoted I own and it rebukes your doctrine of a bread God and literal blood to drink,

Jesus said

Matthew 24:23
"Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there; believe it not."

But yet you can say as you point to your altar and your priest sacrificing your Jesus on the altar,

you can say "lo there is Christ" as you point to the altar and bow down in worship to the bread. But Jesus warns against your doctrine. Jesus told us to believe not, and i do not believe you, or the Roman catholics who are almost identical to your order.

The Jesus you speak of is "another Jesus" , the gospel you speak of is "another gospel", and we are warned of these things.

My Jesus Christ lives in every heart by faith.

"That Christ may dwell in your hearts by faith; that ye, being rooted and grounded in love,"(Ephesians 3:17)

"5 Examine yourselves, whether ye be in the faith; prove your own selves. Know ye not your own selves, how that Jesus Christ is in you, except ye be reprobates?"(2 Cor 13:5 KJV)

and my Jesus Christ is seated literally in heaven

Acts 7:55
"But he, being full of the Holy Ghost, looked up stedfastly into heaven, and saw the glory of God, and Jesus standing on the right hand of God,"

and my Jesus Christ the Son of God shall come again in like manner as he left the earth,

"11 Which also said, Ye men of Galilee, why stand ye gazing up into heaven? this same Jesus, which is taken up from you into heaven, shall so come in like manner as ye have seen him go into heaven."( Acts1:11 KJV)

and yet you say he comes in the bread literally and it is changed into God and worshiped.

Yes i may have been burned at the stake by groups like your or the Romans catholics in times past , but I would have stood for the truth of God as my other brothers and sister did who were killed for such a belief as they followed the spirit of God and the Holy scripture.

 

[LoveofTruth]

I have to agree with @truefiction1. You're needlessly judging 500+ million Christians based on externalities like vestments and church order.

I simply quoted Jesus and take heed to his warning and I am aware of such dangers.

As I have observed for many years the function and role of such men over the flock and the unbiblical roles and order they follow. The body ministry where every part of the body can supply and edify each other whenever they gather is quenched and almost non existent in most of these places where a man over all call a priest or pastor or Reverend etc, is exalted as the head over all and does most of the ministry.

I dont condemn any.

And I do not speak to the many believers who are bound up under Babylon. I pray for them to come out of her. But I speak more specifically to those who are over them as Lords and exalted men called priest or pastors. I am not even judging their hearts, many may love God and be bound up in the false order and tradition of men. But I speak to the order and function they have and how they fight against the body ministry and God's order and function for true biblical elders and all the body function in the church.

Again,Jesus warned of this for a reason. I was a Roman catholic and when I was saved God called me out of that group and showed me many things. But I saw clearly that many of the "priest" were very similar to the pharisees in the scriptures. I am not judging the hearts of any, but I did see them similar by Jesus words.

Luke 20 - 46. Beware of the scribes, which desire to walk in long robes, and love greetings in the markets, and the highest seats in the synagogues, and the chief rooms at feasts;”

That wird "beware" is spoken in the New Testament writings of Paul also,

"8 Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ. 9 For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily
10 And ye are complete in him, which is the head of all principality and power:"(Colossians 2:8-10 KJV)

"For I say, through the grace given unto me, to every man that is among you, not to think of himself more highly than he ought to think; but to think soberly, according as God hath dealt to every man the measure of faith."(Romans 12;3 KJV)


consider Pauls words here

"6 And these things, brethren, I have in a figure transferred to myself and to Apollos for your sakes; that ye might learn in us not to think of men above that which is written, that no one of you be puffed up for one against another.
7 For who maketh thee to differ from another? and what hast thou that thou didst not receive? now if thou didst receive it, why dost thou glory, as if thou hadst not received it? 8 Now ye are full, now ye are rich, ye have reigned as kings without us"(1 Cor. 4:6-8 KJV)

 

[LoveofTruth]

I have to agree with @truefiction1. You're needlessly judging 500+ million Christians based on externalities like vestments and church order.

You originally said,

"I have to agree with @truefiction1. You're needlessly judging 500+ million Christians based on externalities like vestments by weaponizing the Scriptures."

The weapons of my warfare are spiritual and mighty through God to the pulling down of strongholds.

2 Corinthians 10:4
"(For the weapons of our warfare are not carnal, but mighty through God to the pulling down of strong holds”


The word of God is the sword of the Spirit

Ephesians 6:17
"And take the helmet of salvation, and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God:"

and sharper than any two edged sword, piercing and dividing asunder...

Hebrews 4:12
"For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart."

and God says as much about His word

"29 Is not my word like as a fire? saith the Lord; and like a hammer that breaketh the rock in pieces?"(Jeremiah 23:29 KJV)

 

[LoveofTruth]

Human beings are not temples made with human hands. They are fashioned by God in His image, in order to become in His likeness by the indwelling of the Holy Spirit. The Kingdom of heaven is "within you".

and I was referring to the bread God you make with your hands and cook the bread.

Also that verse is referring to many who call buildings made by mans hands the house of God etc.

This would also relate to the bread God you make. The bread is the house of God so to speak for you is it not?. Does not the bread become God after you make the bread with your hands and say a formula of words?

I think you can tell how much i am against the false religions of man made order that fight against the truth of God.I am also against anything that would lead believers into idolatry and error and that would bind them up and hinder them from using their gifts every time they gather and anything that fights against the true order and function of the Church where Jesus Christ is the head.

Yes, let every thing that can be shaken, be shaken, so that all we see is that glorious image of Christ.

 

[FireDragon76]

You're formerly Roman Catholic. That doesn't make you an expert on all things sacramental or liturgical. You're just rehashing tired polemics to somebody that belongs to a church that has centuries more experience than you do knowing about spiritual things.

 

[LoveofTruth]

Times have changed since Jesus spoke those words. That is not how every shepherd who wears a long robe is, in the Church of Jesus Christ. Have you ever been to Mt. Athos? Everybody who resides there wears a long black robe. It is the dress code of all monks, and that is all. There, you are not special if you wear a black robe, you are just like everyone else there. You would be special if you wore bright colored clothing to attract attention to yourself. That is why everybody wears the same long black robe. If you wore a long black robe to the supermarket in any American city today you would be very out of place and probably an object of scorn and ridicule. In my Lord's day, fasting was considered a thing that a hypocrite could show as a sign of their worth, which is why Jesus said "they disfigure their faces so as to be seen as fasting". Today nobody fasts for religious reasons, and people don't even have the slightest idea why anyone would do such a stupid thing. As a matter of fact, where I am, people consider it silly and foolish to the utmost degree to believe in God, let alone fast for religious reasons. I haven't met a single person outside the Orthodox Church who knows why fasting ought to be done, and what is even more ridiculous to almost everyone of my peers in society, is to believe that Jesus is risen from the dead. To them, You are just insane and an imbecile to believe such nonsense these days. Things have changed, and long robes aren't a code of honor in our world. They are a sign of a fool. Vainglory lives in dead hearts, not in long robes. Jesus denounced the passions of pride and vainglory, which he saw when looking into the hearts of the scribes and Pharisees of His day. He never said that the ordained leaders in His Church could not adhere to a dress code, or that doing so turned them into hypocrites.

When I plant a church in homes by the grace of God, all can wear what they would in their daily lives. There is no special clothing for anyone over another. No outward false sign of authority or some positional authority . True authority flows from Christ to the body as they speak and live the word of God.

I teach them the order of God as revealed in scripture and by the Spirit. All must wait on the Lord for all things and love one another. We are all brothers and sisters and no man should puff himself up over others. The elders should be servants and helpers of their joy, not as lords or in false dominion and false authority over them.

To put a man over all and have all face the front to an exiled place often called an "altar", and to force all to look at the back of each others heads, cuts off body ministry in just the form alone. They are all directed if not "forced" to listen to the one man at the front who does all the ministry. This is very wrong and fights against the commandment of the Lord and the very function of the church.

But many love to have it so. They are captured by the stain glass windows and large fancy buildings. They marvel at false icons and other images that are not the people whom they claim to be.

Man made Religion captures the hearts and draws men from body ministry in the spirit as they let the peace of God rule in their hearts and seek to be led by the Spirit, where all are to let the word of Christ dwell in them richly, teaching and admonishing one another.

consider if you have ears to hear and eyes to see,

The harlot

"3 For the lips of a strange woman drop as an honeycomb, and her mouth is smoother than oil:...10 Lest strangers be filled with thy wealth; and thy labours be in the house of a stranger;...14 I was almost in all evil in the midst of the congregation and assembly."(Proverbs 5:3,10,14 KJV)

"24 To keep thee from the evil woman, from the flattery of the tongue of a strange woman. 25 Lust not after her beauty in thine heart; neither let her take thee with her eyelids.26 For by means of a whorish woman a man is brought to a piece of bread: and the adultress will hunt for the precious life...."(Proverbs 6:24-26 KJV)

"5 That they may keep thee from the strange woman, from the stranger which flattereth with her words. 6 For at the window of my house I looked through my casement, 7 And beheld among the simple ones, I discerned among the youths, a young man void of understanding, 8 Passing through the street near her corner; and he went the way to her house, 9 In the twilight, in the evening, in the black and dark night: 10 And, behold, there met him a woman with the attire of an harlot, and subtil of heart. 11 (She is loud and stubborn; her feet abide not in her house: 12 Now is she without, now in the streets, and lieth in wait at every corner.) 13 So she caught him, and kissed him, and with an impudent face said unto him, 14 I have peace offerings with me; this day have I payed my vows. 15 Therefore came I forth to meet thee, diligently to seek thy face, and I have found thee. 16 I have decked my bed with coverings of tapestry, with carved works, with fine linen of Egypt. 17 I have perfumed my bed with myrrh, aloes, and cinnamon. 18 Come, let us take our fill of love until the morning: let us solace ourselves with loves. 19 For the goodman is not at home, he is gone a long journey: 20 He hath taken a bag of money with him, and will come home at the day appointed. 21 With her much fair speech she caused him to yield, with the flattering of her lips she forced him. 22 He goeth after her straightway, as an ox goeth to the slaughter, or as a fool to the correction of the stocks; 23 Till a dart strike through his liver; as a bird hasteth to the snare, and knoweth not that it is for his life. 24 Hearken unto me now therefore, O ye children, and attend to the words of my mouth. 25 Let not thine heart decline to her ways, go not astray in her paths. 26 For she hath cast down many wounded: yea, many strong men have been slain by her. 27 Her house is the way to hell, going down to the chambers of death."(Proverbs 7:5-21 KJV)

 

[LoveofTruth]

You're formerly Roman Catholic. That doesn't make you an expert on all things sacramental or liturgical. You're just rehashing tired polemics to somebody that belongs to a church that has centuries more experience than you do talking about spiritual things. That's the height of arrogance.

No, I am teaching the order of God according to scripture. Yes it shatters man made traditions and forms, but let everything that can be shaken be shaken. Don;t hold onto old man made traditions that were never reformed.

Didn't Luther say himself

"Please do not use my name do not call yourself Lutherans, "

Just this fact alone today that men follow after a man shows somewhat of what i am saying in this entire post.

 

[LoveofTruth]

You're formerly Roman Catholic. That doesn't make you an expert on all things sacramental or liturgical. You're just rehashing tired polemics to somebody that belongs to a church that has centuries more experience than you do knowing about spiritual things.

It is time for a new reformation

 

[LoveofTruth]

You're formerly Roman Catholic. That doesn't make you an expert on all things sacramental or liturgical. You're just rehashing tired polemics to somebody that belongs to a church that has centuries more experience than you do knowing about spiritual things.

What are you talking about? the Pharisees could have used the same argument you are using to the new Christian assemblies.

And you know very little about what spiritual things I know of. I have only touched on the order of God and body ministry there is much more

 

[LoveofTruth]

You're formerly Roman Catholic. That doesn't make you an expert on all things sacramental or liturgical. You're just rehashing tired polemics to somebody that belongs to a church that has centuries more experience than you do knowing about spiritual things.

It is strange you speak this way. You should understand somewhat of what i am saying.

Luther was just one man against the entire massive superstructure of the Roman Catholic church. I can imagine he would have had words like yours to me often, and had men say to him "who are you Luther, our church has centuries more experience than you do knowing about spiritual things, you are arrogant".

I can almost hear the arguments, "who is Luther how dare he try to think he is right against all the tradition and centuries of learning of the Roman Catholic church"

Men judge wrongly often. Jesu said not to judge by outward appearance. But many do

They look at one man and then they look at their superstructure and buildings and history behind them and often they will reject the one man speaking truth boldly and follow the crowds.

But God has often used simple people to stand against a Giant