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The Partial Preterist Believers Safe House

Discussion in 'Eschatology - Endtimes & Prophecy Forum' started by 1disciple, Apr 15, 2013.

  1. ebedmelech

    ebedmelech My dog Micah in the pic Supporter

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    In my mind the one most important point that Christ made happened with the "woman at the well" in John 4.

    This is where Christ makes the point that it is the spiritual that becomes the reality in the NT.

    The Lord ushered in the spiritual view of the NY as he clearly told the woman at the well what time it was in John 4:21-26:
    21 Jesus *said to her, “Woman, believe Me, an hour is coming when neither in this mountain nor in Jerusalem will you worship the Father.
    22 You worship what you do not know; we worship what we know, for salvation is from the Jews.
    23 But an hour is coming, and now is, when the true worshipers will worship the Father in spirit and truth; for such people the Father seeks to be His worshipers.
    24 God is spirit, and those who worship Him must worship in spirit and truth.”
    25 The woman *said to Him, “I know that Messiah is coming (He who is called Christ); when that One comes, He will declare all things to us.” 26 Jesus *said to her, “I who speak to you am He.”


    Jesus has shifted the focus here!!! Clearly worship locations are no longer prominent because Jesus has come. Now it's the "Jerusalem above" where our focus of worship should be.

    This is why Jerusalem has no significance prophetically in my view. Contrary to what most think "partial preterism" has diverse views within it also.

    I started my Christian walk in an "Independent Fundamental Baptist" (Scofield Reference Bible) church, I remember all the questions I had about the literal futurist approach to the scriptures.

    It has huge problems.
     
    Last edited: Nov 2, 2013
  2. zeke37

    zeke37 IMO...

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    neither do I

    oh, I do. Zec14 seems pretty strait forward

    well, that beast is not done imo

    ok, we disagree, because I look to a day when He physically comes
    a lot of the NT speaks repeatedly of that time of His future Coming,
    as being with angels and with vengeance

    it cannot be at thing of the past, when the NT writers use the same Coming, as something to look forward to, even themselves who already know Christ

    how so?
    how is post trib, dispensational?
    I mean, by definition, we are not dispy's.

    wow, ok then.
    imo you guys miss the mark in one key category
    but I can't say here in your safe house without debate.
    and I guess the point is that you don't want outsiders in here debating

    so, i'll tell ya in another thread someday
     
  3. A New Dawn

    A New Dawn God is bigger than the boogeyman!

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    I have stuck this thread. Please remember that as a safehouse, there is no debate by those who do not hold to the theology of the members referenced in the thread title.

    God bless![/c]
     
  4. Fenwick

    Fenwick Non Nisi Te Domine

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    Yea for sober discussion!
     
  5. 1disciple

    1disciple Active Member

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    It is a joyful day, indeed. :amen:

    Verily, verily, I say unto you, That ye shall weep and lament, but the world shall rejoice: and ye shall be sorrowful, but your sorrow shall be turned into joy. -- John 16:20

    Heavenly - Ode To Joy - YouTube
     
  6. 1disciple

    1disciple Active Member

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    Just a bit of encouragement and reminder for those who dwell in heavenly places to keep walking the Road, even though it may be the minority and often lonely. :) Do not conform to this world, but be transformed by the renewal of your mind. Then you will soar on wings of eagles. Dare to stand above the Crystaline Abyss! And wage a good warfare for the Faith!
    And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins; Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience: Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others. But God, who is rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us, Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved). And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus: That in the ages to come he might shew the exceeding riches of his grace in his kindness toward us through Christ Jesus. For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast. For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them. -- Ephesians 2:1-10

    Vagabond - Ready for Chaos HD - YouTube
     
  7. Fenwick

    Fenwick Non Nisi Te Domine

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    So I'm assuming as a Safe House it should be a constructive and productive thread and not one that merely bashes other viewpoints. With that said, what are some of your preferred apologists and theologians that describe or defend the historic Eschatological view of the church best?

    I've heard Dr. Kim Riddlebarger's name dropped quite a few times and I think NT Wright presents of a holistic, interconnected Eschatological model (which includes Partial-Preterist/Amillennialist notes).

    Also, for those that are interested in participating in this Safe House, what's your theological background? I always find it interesting the general theological purview that Partial-Preterists and/or Amillennialists come from.

    I myself am a former Evangelical of which futurism tends to be the predominant view. I consider myself to have exited that demographic and am currently trying to figure out whether I'm destined for Eastern Orthodoxy or Roman Catholicism—at this point things are slightly leaning towards the latter. I know both Churches hold an Amillennial view, as do most Reformed churches and I believe the Anglican and Lutheran churches do as well (feel free to correct me if I'm wrong—I'm not well versed on each churches doctrines and dogmas).
     
  8. 1disciple

    1disciple Active Member

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    Well, now this enters into a discussion of liturgics as well. I've spent years trying to trace it down and, yes, it does appear that the earliest that was adopted was the liturgy of James. The Eastern and Western Rites have the right idea in focusing on Eucharist (though transubstantiation seems to have been blended in from the Mithraic Mystery). In fact, the Eastern Rite has even preserved the proper mode of baptism by immersion in the Name of Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. However, the great problem with these 'Katholisims' is that they were and are all tied to the statist, imperialist model of Constantine. Here's where the rubber meets the road. You have to decide in your life whether or not you're going to follow Rome. And it is very hard. Because a lot of the liturgy is perfectly correct, it's just not understood spiritually. I wouldn't even have a problem necessarily if Mary were understood as the embodiment of New Jerusalem. But the masses are generally carnal, earthly minded. They enter by the Greater Entrance, and so few if any seem to comprehend the Lesser Entrance of the Spirit.

    Personally, I'm convinced at this time that all these earthly 'churches' are simply sheep pens. The True Bishop and Shepherd of the Sheep calls out His own and leads them to pastures beyond. As for the rest, they remain in the sheep pens and don't ever quite make it out. This is an introduction to a topic of liturgics and ecclesiology that we could honestly spend years on. As far at the eschatology of the Eastern and Western Rites, it is generally correct. Eastern & Western Catholicism isn't deceptive because so much of it is wrong. It's deceptive because so much of it is right! The church at large is in crisis today. It would appear that the only two real options are either the road back to Rome or the road leading the the sheer lunacy and profanity of modern Evangelical Charismata. The Reformation has failed in its purpose mainly because it stopped reforming and has gone into autopilot mode of going along to get along. And so the general understanding in the churches today is nebulous at best and utterly ignorant in reality.

    If you want an indepth study of the traditional Orthodox view of eschatology, I suggest reading Olson's 'Will Catholics Be Left Behind'. It absolutely trounces Dispensationalism and leaves it in shreds. However, more importantly, it gives a good introduction to Biblical eschatology. Not a bad read and resource on the subject, I might say.
     
    Last edited: Apr 19, 2013
  9. ebedmelech

    ebedmelech My dog Micah in the pic Supporter

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    There are varied amill views out there. This is a huge mistake that futurist make in thinking all preterist are in agreement.

    I have:

    *Kim Riddlebarger's exposition of Matthew 24

    *D A Carson does a great exposition on Matthew 24

    I heard them on the site monergism.com, it's a great website to have as a resource: Monergism.com :: Classic Articles and Resources of the Historic Christian Faith


    Books
    *R C Sproul has a great book "The Last Days According to Jesus"

    *Hank Hannegraf's book "The Apocalypse Code" is quite good too.


    Here are some free books available in .pdf format:

    *Kenneth Gentry - "Before Jerusalem Fell" - 1989 (The dating of Revelation).

    *Phillip Mauro - "The Seventy Weeks and the Great Tribulation A Study of the Last Two Visions of Daniel, and of the Olivet Discourse of the Lord Jesus Christ - 1944

    *Stuart Russell - "The Parousia" - 1878

    When it comes to amill, I don't like the term, it suggest there's no millennium when the fact is I believe the millennial reign started when Christ was raised, and it continues until He returns in judgment of the world. I view the 1000 years are symbolic of that time period.
     
  10. hiscosmicgoldfish

    hiscosmicgoldfish Liberal Anglican

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    congratulations on getting your Partial Preterist Non-Pre-Mid-Trib-Post-Trib Rapture Believers Safe House, as a sticky.
     
  11. 1disciple

    1disciple Active Member

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    @ebedmelech

    Agreed. I hate the term 'amillenialism', first, because it's a misnomer. One thing that all Partial Preterists can agree on, though, is that the 1000 year reign is done from Heaven, not earth.

    That Jesus would return to earth and reign in some 3rd Temple is a false doctrine invented straight out of John Nelson Darby's own imagination.
     
  12. 1disciple

    1disciple Active Member

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    Well, I don't care that it's a sticky. I just care that it's a place where people can actually discuss eschatology in some sensible and coherent way. I never want it to be my thread. In fact, if it is my thread, I'm going to run from it. :)
     
  13. 1disciple

    1disciple Active Member

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    Then those who had reverence for IHVH began speaking often one to another: and IHVH listened to it, and heard it. Then a Book of Remembrance was written before Him of those who had reverence for IHVH and who contemplated on His Name. And they shall be mine, says IHVH Sabaoth, in that Day when I have formed my own Jewels. And I will spare them as a man spares his own son who serves Him. Then you will return and will be able to discern between the just and the wicked, between one who serves God and one who does not serve Him. -- Malachi 3:16-18
    Pink Floyd - Shine On Your Crazy Diamond - YouTube
     
  14. Fenwick

    Fenwick Non Nisi Te Domine

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    Yeah, I've been hearing for a long time that Amillennialism is inaccurate and it should more appropriately be called "realized millennialism" or something along those lines.

    I would wager though that ultimately Partial-Preterists and Amillennialists are more unified in their theology than futurists. Futurism is so fragmented, and while there may be a few details that Partial-Preterists disagree on the bigger picture tends to be the same.
     
  15. 1disciple

    1disciple Active Member

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    That's because in Futurism there is no real hermeneutic. You can pretty much interpret anything according to the whim of the moment. I would describe it as being based upon an anti-hermeneutic. It's the best publishing house and pop eschatology to ever come along. There is an endless river of nonsense that can be promoted from year to year, and the best part is that everyone has to be right because not one of them has a clue as to what they are talking about. The means that a total and abject moron can be as much of an eschatology expert as someone who's studied the Scriptures for decades.
     
  16. ebedmelech

    ebedmelech My dog Micah in the pic Supporter

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    You definitely jump through some hoops with the futurist view. It's worse than a jigsaw puzzle with no picture on the box...but at least with a jigsaw puzzle you have the edges to work from... ^_^
     
  17. 1disciple

    1disciple Active Member

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    And he showed me a Pure River of Water of Life, Clear as Crystal, proceeding out of the throne of God and of the Lamb. In the midst of the Street of it, and on either side of the River, was there the Tree of Life, which bare Twelve manner of Fruits, and yielded her Fruit every Month: and the Leaves of the Tree were for the healing of the Nations. And there shall be no more Curse: but the Throne of God and of the Lamb shall be in it; and His Servants shall serve him: And they shall see His Face; and His Name shall be written in their Foreheads. -- Rev. 22:1-4
    OceanLab I Am What I Am (Lange Remix) - YouTube
     
    Last edited: Apr 20, 2013
  18. 1disciple

    1disciple Active Member

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    And it shall be in that Day, that Living Waters shall flow forth from Jerusalem; half of them toward the former sea, and half of them toward the hinder sea: in summer and in winter shall it be. And IHVH shall be King over all the earth: in that Day there shall be ACHAD IHVH, and His Name shall be ACHAD. -- Zech. 14:8-9
    There is a Fountain - (DJ Jireh Remix) - YouTube
     
    Last edited: Apr 22, 2013
  19. LittleLambofJesus

    LittleLambofJesus PESKY DEVIL! GIT! l SAID GIT! Supporter

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    :D



    .
     
  20. 1disciple

    1disciple Active Member

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    כי אני אמר לכם ראה לא תראוני מעתה עד אשר תאמרו ברוך הבא בשם יהוה׃

    Robbie Williams- Jesus In A Camper Van with lyrics - YouTube
     
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