The Palestinian-Jewish issue in a nutsell

[mark46]

Israel has had a consistent set of military policies since 1947. There have many wars, with many citizens of many nations fighting against Israel. Israel survives.

I agree that Israel will not "stop" Hamas. Israel can only buy time until the next conflict.

You suggest that removing all military presence in Palestine and all threats to Hamas (and presumably also to Hezbollah) will bring peace to the region, apparently because you believe that the Palestinians, Arabs and Persians will abandon their violent opposition to that state of Israel.

I understand your analysis. I don't agree.

Israel will not stop Hamas. Their tactics will fail, as they always have, and more Palestinians will grow up believing Israel to be a barbaric enemy that must be fought, like they always have. I think that Israel could win more flies with honey and should immediately withdraw from all settlements and immediately stop any efforts to isolate the Palestinians from the outside world. My Church recently hosted a group of Palestinian Catholics, according to them, they have much more to fear from Israelis than they do from their Muslim neighbors, who treat them quite well. Israel interferes with their freedom of travel and commerce and heavily restricts shipments coming in and out. That might put Israeli minds at ease, but it will not make Israel safer in the long term - just the opposite in fact.

 

[S.ilvio]

Yes, that's exactly what I said....

Just like you'll give a complete pass to Hamas for whatever actions they deem fit.

*Shakes head in resignation...*

 

[LoAmmi]

*Shakes head in resignation...*

Well, when you decide to deliberately misreport what someone has said in order to make them look bad, that's lying. I'd avoid it personally.

 

[AMDG]

What was said is that Hamas bears the responsibility for ALL injured and killed in this fight. They started this and they use women, children, hospitals, schools, mosques, and apartment buildings as shields.

We should be concentrating on getting HAMAS to stop it's violence.

 

[AvilaSurfer]

*Shakes head in resignation...*

Your most reasonable post so far.

 

[S.ilvio]

Well, when you decide to deliberately misreport what someone has said in order to make them look bad, that's lying. I'd avoid it personally.

I'm a liar now. Sweet. Self delusion is a coping mechanism. For someone like yourself, who is a well balanced, intelligent bloke, it must be required in order to justify the slaughter of innocent children...

 

[S.ilvio]

We should be concentrating on getting HAMAS to stop it's violence.

I couldn't agree more. Do you thinkthe IDF massacring hundreds of children will weaken or strenhthen their position among the Gazan people..?

 

[LoAmmi]

I'm a liar now. Sweet. Self delusion is a coping mechanism. For someone like yourself, who is a well balanced, intelligent bloke, it must be required in order to justify the slaughter of innocent children...

So far you haven't so much read what I've written as jumped to a series of conclusions I can only assume is filed under your brain for anybody who doesn't automatically think that the situation is one-sided and Israel is an evil monstrous thing. Your third sentence is exactly correct.

 

[AvilaSurfer]

A terrorist is only as strong as the fear he creates. The ban on flights to Tel Aviv increased that fear. Striking back, and striking back hard will decrease that fear. Hamas is being decimated now. That is a good thing.

 

[MikeK]

Hamas grows stronger with every civilian that IDF forces kill.

 

[AvilaSurfer]

Hamas grows stronger with every civilian that IDF forces kill.

Wow, what a warped sense of reality.

 

[MikeK]

Wow, what a warped sense of reality.

Contribute something to the discussion, please. Do you not believe that indiscriminate killing of civilians by the IDF (and there are certainly examples of indiscriminate killing - the boys playing soccer on the beach a few days ago come to mind) results in Hamas gaining sympathy and eventually, members? Hamas would cease to exist as an organization if they were no longer as to convince people that Israel was a danger to them.

 

[LivingWordUnity]

Do you not believe that indiscriminate killing of civilians by the IDF (and there are certainly examples of indiscriminate killing

Can you prove that Israel targets innocent civilians? Just because civilians die doesn't mean they were targeted by Israel. Innocent civilians get killed in war no matter how careful a country is in trying to avoid it. How many innocent civilians have been killed by US drone strikes? As AMDG pointed out, Hamas often hides behind these civilians and uses them as human shields.

 

[S.ilvio]

Hamas grows stronger with every civilian that IDF forces kill.

Lets not fool ourselves here. The Israeli movers and shakers know this as much as we.

So the real question is what does Israel have to gain from having a bogeyman firing nickel and dime missiles into Israeli territory.

Wait a minute. Aren't they getting billions of dollars from the American Taxpayer who thinks they're under threat?

If the threat is removed would that threaten the cashflow?

If there was one way to ensure the money keeps rolling, the continued threat from Hamas must remain constant.

The best way to ensure this? Kill a thousand or so of their children. That should keep those dang A-rabs riled up for another decade or so.

Am I being too cynical here...?

 

[MikeK]

Can you prove that Israel targets innocent civilians? Just because civilians die doesn't mean they were targeted by Israel. Innocent civilians get killed in war no matter how careful a country is in trying to avoid it. How many innocent civilians have been killed by US drone strikes? As AMDG pointed out, Hamas often hides behind these civilians and uses them as human shields.

I didn't claim they were targeted, I claimed they were indiscriminately killed. I don't think Israel is targeting civilians, I think they simply don't care if they kill civilians. You should read up on the moral guidance given to us by Christ's Church concerning just war, especially the bits about proportionality and collateral damage.

 

[brewmama]

Lets not fool ourselves here. The Israeli movers and shakers know this as much as we.

So the real question is what does Israel have to gain from having a bogeyman firing nickel and dime missiles into Israeli territory.

Wait a minute. Aren't they getting billions of dollars from the American Taxpayer who thinks they're under threat?

If the threat is removed would that threaten the cashflow?

If there was one way to ensure the money keeps rolling, the continued threat from Hamas must remain constant.

The best way to ensure this? Kill a thousand or so of their children. That should keep those dang A-rabs riled up for another decade or so.

Am I being too cynical here...?

Yes you are, absolutely.

 

[LivingWordUnity]

I didn't claim they were targeted, I claimed they were indiscriminately killed. I don't think Israel is targeting civilians, I think they simply don't care if they kill civilians. You should read up on the moral guidance given to us by Christ's Church concerning just war, especially the bits about proportionality and collateral damage.

I haven't seen proof that they don't care if they kill innocent civilians. Do you have proof of this? If someone bombs indiscriminately then it is an evil act. The bombing of Japan by the US was an evil act even though it ended WWII. Do you agree?

See the following:
Israel’s efforts to spare civilians have been exemplary

 

[eastcoast_bsc]

Contribute something to the discussion, please. Do you not believe that indiscriminate killing of civilians by the IDF (and there are certainly examples of indiscriminate killing - the boys playing soccer on the beach a few days ago come to mind) results in Hamas gaining sympathy and eventually, members? Hamas would cease to exist as an organization if they were no longer as to convince people that Israel was a danger to them.

How did this current round of hostilities begin? I notice no mention from you or the liberal media in regards to the Israeli boys who were kidnapped and murdered.

So If I slap you in the mouth, and you decide to defend yourself, then you are only contributing to my hatred of you? Where is the logic in that?

I would rather die defending myself than sit around in cowardice and fear.

 

[mark46]

I agree with Israel in this struggle and in others against the Arabs and Persians.

That being said, the issue is proportionality. Three teens were murdered and without even knowing who the culprits were, Israel started the attacks on Hamas.

How did this current round of hostilities begin? I notice no mention from you or the liberal media in regards to the Israeli boys who were kidnapped and murdered.

So If I slap you in the mouth, and you decide to defend yourself, then you are only contributing to my hatred of you? Where is the logic in that?

I would rather die defending myself than sit around in cowardice and fear.

 

[AvilaSurfer]

Contribute something to the discussion, please. Do you not believe that indiscriminate killing of civilians by the IDF (and there are certainly examples of indiscriminate killing - the boys playing soccer on the beach a few days ago come to mind) results in Hamas gaining sympathy and eventually, members? Hamas would cease to exist as an organization if they were no longer as to convince people that Israel was a danger to them.

LOL - and the LOL is at the first sentence, not the situation, just in case there's any confusion.