The Palestinian-Jewish issue in a nutsell

[LoAmmi]

I believe they do sometimes. I don't believe that the Palestinian children playing soccer on the beach the other day were aware that they were about to be murdered in a most brutal way. Even if they were warned, where would they go? This is their home. They have a right to their home. If Israel wishes to arrest or kill Palestinian aggressors (and they have every right to), let them go in and get them. There is no excuse for artillery and air strikes when targeting individuals. The Israelis have some of the best paramilitary forces in the world, let them go after the bad individuals, not target city blocks.

Seems like they are going in. There is a ground offensive, yes?

The children thing is pretty terrible, I agree. No idea what happened there. Seems like someone screwed up royally.

 

[AMDG]

The Israelis are targeting the weapons that Hamas uses to rain down upon the Israeli citizens. The Israelis are also targeting the tunnels that Hamas has honeycombed into Israel using the U.N. cement supposedly for the building of schools. One of the tunnels went right by a kindergarten. (Now why would that be? Plans to kidnap and murder some more innocent children like Hamas did to the three boys? I hear that those brutal murders were what started this mess.)

 

[AvilaSurfer]

The Israelis are targeting the weapons that Hamas uses to rain down upon the Israeli citizens. The Israelis are also targeting the tunnels that Hamas has honeycombed into Israel using the U.N. cement supposedly for the building of schools. One of the tunnels went right by a kindergarten. (Now why would that be? Plans to kidnap and murder some more innocent children like Hamas did to the three boys? I hear that those brutal murders were what started this mess.)

You can explain this as many times as you want. Israel haters won't get it.

Hamas is 100% responsible for all civilian casualties.

By some people's logic, I could push someone in front of a train and step back and say "What?!? The train killed him!!"

 

[MikeK]

By some people's logic, I could push someone in front of a train and step back and say "What?!? The train killed him!!"

No, you would have killed him, just as the Hamas terrorist who lobs a rocket that makes it through Iron Dome and kills an Israeli is the killer and the IDF agent who directs an artillery strike that kills a civilian is the killer. You have taken to fabricating stances to argue against because you are incapable of defending your position against those stances that are extant here. The Church is very clear on what constitutes a just act of war and She is very clear about collateral damage. Neither Hamas nor Israel are acting in a morally acceptable manner.

 

[AvilaSurfer]

Hamas is 100% responsible no matter how you spin it.

 

[LoAmmi]

No, you would have killed him, just as the Hamas terrorist who lobs a rocket that makes it through Iron Dome and kills an Israeli is the killer and the IDF agent who directs an artillery strike that kills a civilian is the killer. You have taken to fabricating stances to argue against because you are incapable of defending your position against those stances that are extant here. The Church is very clear on what constitutes a just act of war and She is very clear about collateral damage. Neither Hamas nor Israel are acting in a morally acceptable manner.

While you are going to strongly disagree, this might aid you in understanding how Judaism tends to view these situations. It's old but it would, I imagine, still apply:

Rabbis: Israel Too Worried Over Civilian Deaths – Forward.com

 

[AMDG]

Israel is acting to protect the Israeli citizens. Hamas is acting to kill not only Israeli citizens but to cause enough bloodshed of those living in Gaza to make the world feel sorry for Hamas. For all their poor skills and their hiding behind women and children, hospitals and schools, they are quite astute about world public relations.

If Hamas wanted peace, it could have had it like yesterday. All Hamas has to do is stop shelling Israelis and live in peace. Hamas has already stated that there will be no peace. Why don't people believe them?

 

[MikeK]

People do believe them. The actions of Hamas have been roundly criticized and you are electing to attack positions that virtually nobody holds. The fact that Hamas is in the wrong is not sufficient to make Israel's actions right.

 

[prodromos]

Hamas is 100% responsible no matter how you spin it.

How many Israeli settlements have the Palestinians bulldozed and built Palestinian settlements on?

 

[S.ilvio]

I never said they were expedable. The problem is if you show that the terrorists can get away with storing weapons with civilians and you do nothing, ALL their weapons will be stored with civilians and ALL their attacks will come for where the most civilians are. It isn't what I would want but I understand the need not to allow an enemy such a tactical advantage. Israel does alert civilians that they are striking the area and gives them time to leave.

I just don't know what to say.

Is there an atrocity on women and children carried out by the IDF that will make you say enough. Stop this now.

What is your tolerance level for Palestinian children having their limbs blown off or killed? 150? 1,500? 15,000..?

 

[S.ilvio]

Do you believe that Israel does inform civilians when a strike is coming and give them a chance to leave? Isn't that taking steps to protect life? If they don't leave what do you do? Shrug your shoulders?

When they do leave and go to schools or UN Compounds the IDF still get pummeled by Israeli missiles.

Here's a thought, would Israel take them in on a temporary basis until the massacre ends..?

 

[LoAmmi]

I just don't know what to say.

Is there an atrocity on women and children carried out by the IDF that will make you say enough. Stop this now.

What is your tolerance level for Palestinian children having their limbs blown off or killed? 150? 1,500? 15,000..?

Enough what? I don't understand your hyperbole since I haven't said the loss of life is good. I'm just not a terrorist sympathizer and believe they need to be stopped.

 

[prodromos]

Enough what? I don't understand your hyperbole since I haven't said the loss of life is good. I'm just not a terrorist sympathizer and believe they need to be stopped.

Agreed. Both Palestinian and Israeli terrorism needs to be stopped. Unfortunately the latter, funded by the USA, has fuelled the creation of the former.

 

[LoAmmi]

Agreed. Both Palestinian and Israeli terrorism needs to be stopped. Unfortunately the latter, funded by the USA, has fuelled the creation of the former.

The entire history over there is pretty bad. I think that Israel doesn't do enough work toward peace and that organizations like Hamas don't want peace. Peace would drive them out of business. If I were in charge, I'd grant Palestine some land, declare them a state, and say t h at any further actions again Israel will be treated as an act of war.

 

[S.ilvio]

Enough what? I don't understand your hyperbole since I haven't said the loss of life is good. I'm just not a terrorist sympathizer and believe they need to be stopped.

My question is quite clear.

What is your tolerance level for dead or maimed Palestinian children. 150? (Clearly not) 1,500? 15,000? Or are there no limits to the amount of children being massacred for the goal of destroying Hamas missile stocks..?

 

[LoAmmi]

What is Hamas' limit?

 

[MikeK]

My question is quite clear.

What is your tolerance level for dead or maimed Palestinian children. 150? (Clearly not) 1,500? 15,000? Or are there no limits to the amount of children being massacred for the goal of destroying Hamas missile stocks..?

Hamas rocket stocks cannot really be eliminated, the rockets are very simple to produce at home from common materials with little or no training. That said, it doesn't make sense to push for a fixed number of acceptable civilian casualties unless you are also somehow controlling the number of rocket attacks or Israeli casualties. It stands to reason that the numbers would rise and fall together.

 

[S.ilvio]

What is Hamas' limit?

If you're going to dodge the question, just say so..

 

[LoAmmi]

If you're going to dodge the question, just say so..

I have no intention of playing your emotionally driven game here. Appeals to emotion are truly distasteful to me and, in the end, I find them to be the hallmark of a badly thought out point.

In this discussion, I haven't seen you once condemn Hamas for hiding weapons among the civilians. I haven't seen you once condemn them for intentionally endangering the lives of those who look to them for help. If I missed it, let me know. I sometimes forget things.

I condemn both sides for the deaths of civilians, but I do understand that Israel cannot simply sit back and let Hamas do as they please in terms of firing rockets into civilian areas. Make no mistake, Hamas aims at civilians deliberately. I don't believe that Israel wants civilian casualties, but it unfortunately happens.

 

[AMDG]

My question is quite clear too--

Is Hamas a terrorist organization or not?

My second question is also clear--

Does the Hamas charter indicate that it is their DUTY to kill the Jews?

If the answer to both of the questions is "yes", then why are we helping Hamas and criticizing Israel for protecting its citizens by targeting the Hamas armaments and the tunnels Hamas uses to harm the Israelis?