The only question regarding Matthew 24:15

[ThatTrueLight]

Don't you get it friend the dead in Christ are rising first and have been rising first, lol.

No I dont, I don't get why anyone would say that..

Unless of course they want to speak against the simple truth.

 

[ThatTrueLight]

That's ALWAYS a possibility.

 

[Berean777]

It's a shock ha, wow, wow!
I was shocked because I followed what

Wrong again, the Apostles clearly teach He hasn't come, that day hasn't come, and the resurrection hasn't come... because the resurrection comes when He comes.

Why would you say otherwise?

Ask the Lord in Spirit.

 

[ThatTrueLight]

It's a shock ha, wow, wow!
I was shocked because I followed what




Ask the Lord in Spirit.

I don't need to, I have read His simple truth in Spirit which warns me about what you say.

 

[Matthew Twentyfour]

The context of all tribes of the earth will see the Son of man coming in the clouds is not pointing a natural clouds seen by natural eyes. Clouds is a symbol of the Holy Ones that acomoany Christ who are the angelic heavenly host. So if we refer back to the acts of the apostles we come to the understanding that Saint Stephan one of the men of Galilee before being killed witnessed the Son coming with the cloud in heaven and everyone else was oblivious to what he saw because it was a supernatural discernment that Saint Stephan was given just before his death.

If we also note what Jesus said to the chief priest when he told him:

Matthew 26:64
us replied. "But I say to all of you: From now on you will see the Son of Man sitting at the right hand of the Mighty One and coming on the clouds of heaven.

It is plainly obvious that the chief priest is one of many peoples to have seen the Lord. How one might say.

Jesus ascended up on high and sat on the right hand of power as the almighty judge and started to judge every peoples of every tribe one by one as they passed on from this earthly life. You know the saying that death will bring you before your maker, well Saint Paul makes a bold statement along those lines:

Hebrews 9:27
Just as people are destined to die once, and after that to face judgment,

After all the Lord ascended up and sat on the right hand of power as the almighty judge and so death brings all men to their maker for judgement for the works done in the body.

Now the context of all eyes from every tribe shall see him and mourn because of him is clear to understand.

Matthew 24:30 is precisely as it's written in Rev 1:7. "Behold, he cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see him, and they also which pierced him: and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of him." It's not an illusion or a metaphore but only to those that were given a strong delusion by God, that they should believe a lie, 2 Thess 2:10-11 that with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.

Christ will return in like manner, Acts 1:11 “Men of Galilee, why do you stand looking into heaven? This Jesus, who was taken up from you into heaven, will come in the same way as you saw him go into heaven.” When He does, his feet shall stand in that day upon the mount of Olives, which is before Jerusalem on the east, and the mount of Olives shall cleave in the midst thereof toward the east and toward the west, and there shall be a very great valley; and half of the mountain shall remove toward the north, and half of it toward the south, Zech 14:4.

All will see Him and many will hide in the caves and in the rocks of the mountains, and said to the mountains and rocks, “Fall on us and hide us from the face of Him who sits on the throne and from the wrath of the Lamb! Rev 6:15-16, and to the mountains, “Cover us!” And to the hills, “Fall on us!” Hosea 10:8 when they see Christ coming in the clouds.

But for those who will be save, they see the Son of man coming in a cloud with power and great glory. And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh. Luke 21:27-28

It's obviously Christ will return coming in the clouds after He leaves heaven as all will literally see Him in the natural just as He left two thousand years ago.

Matthew 26:64 King James Version (KJV)
Jesus saith unto him, Thou hast said: nevertheless I say unto you, Hereafter shall ye see the Son of man sitting on the right hand of power, and coming in the clouds of heaven.

 

[Matthew Twentyfour]

Mark 13:9 “Watch out for yourselves. People will hand you over to the councils. You will be beaten in the synagogues. You will stand before governors and kings because of me so that you can testify before them.

Also, according to the United States Department of State, Christians in more than 60 countries face persecution from their governments or surrounding neighbors simply because of their belief in Jesus Christ.
https://www.opendoorsusa.org/christian-persecution/

Christian Martyrdom Doubled in 2013, Persecution Growing
http://www.thenewamerican.com/cultu...martyrdom-doubled-in-2013-persecution-growing

Persecution of Christians reached record high in 2014. Will 2015 be worse?
http://jonathanmerritt.religionnews...reached-historic-levels-2014-will-2015-worse/

 

[Straightshot]

"Don't you get it friend the dead in Christ are rising first and have been rising first, lol."

Wrong .... where do you get your info from some "church" pamphlet .... your stuff does not match


Truth:

John
3:13 And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven.

1 Corinthians
15:20 But now is Christ risen from the dead, and become the firstfruits of them that slept.

15:21 For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead.

15:22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.

15:23 But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.

15:51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,

15:52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.

 

[BABerean2]

Navigating the Road to Bible Prophecy

We have some here who have driven off the road and gone into the ditch on one side of the road by only seeing the second question in Matthew 24:3.

We also have others who have gotten out of the ditch on one side and then overcorrected and have gone into the ditch on the other side of the road. They only see the first question in Matthew 24:3.

The disciples asked two questions and Jesus answered both questions in Matthew chapter 24.

At the risk of having almost everyone here upset with me, the link below contains the origin of both viewpoints.

Both modern Futurism and modern Preterism came out of the Papal Counterreformation.

See the link below.






Origin of Modern Versions of Futurism and Preterism
http://www.angelfire.com/la2/prophet1/antichrist.html

 

[Straightshot]

Nothing in your offering just above for using to teach truth, but your source is inadvertently correct about RCC preterism .... the balance is pure hobgoblin and full of conspiracy theory babble

 

[BABerean2]

Nothing in your offering just above for using to teach truth, but your source is inadvertently correct about RCC preterism .... the balance is pure hobgoblin and full of conspiracy theory babble

OK.
The source got the view you oppose completely correct, but they got your viewpoint completely wrong.

Based on many of your posts, this is completely logical to you.

.

 

[random person]

The natural man will never understand nor comprehend the deeper spiritual truths of these verses. They are dumb beasts. Let's reconsider Matthew 24:30 below:

And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven (Dan. 7:13-14 fulfilled, Matt. 26:64): and then shall all the tribes of the earth (gé #1093) mourn (koptó #2875), and they shall see (horao #3708) the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven (ouranos #3772) with power and great glory (once again fulfillment of Dan. 7:13-14; Matt. 26:64).


1093. gé
Strong's Concordance
gé: the earth, land
Original Word: γῆ, γῆς, ἡ
Part of Speech: Noun, Feminine
Transliteration: gé
Phonetic Spelling: (ghay)
Short Definition: the earth, soil, land
Definition: the earth, soil, land, region, country, inhabitants of a region.

Gé can mean just the land of Israel, not of the whole earth.

2875. koptó
Strong's Concordance
koptó: to cut (off), strike, by ext. to mourn
Original Word: κόπτω
Part of Speech: Verb
Transliteration: koptó
Phonetic Spelling: (kop'-to)
Short Definition: I cut off, mourn
Definition: (a) I cut, cut off, strike, smite, (b) mid: I beat my breast or head in lamentation, lament, mourn, sometimes with acc. of person whose loss is mourned.

Koptó can actually mean death, striking, smiting with weapons of war and lamentation for loss of a city and slaughter of families via being overthrown by an enemy nation such as the Romans in A.D. 70.

3708. horaó
Strong's Concordance
horaó: to see, perceive, attend to
Original Word: ὁράω
Part of Speech: Verb
Transliteration: horaó
Phonetic Spelling: (hor-ah'-o)
Short Definition: I see, look upon, experience
Definition: I see, look upon, experience, perceive, discern, beware.
HELPS Word-studies
3708 horáō – properly, see, often with metaphorical meaning: "to see with the mind" (i.e. spiritually see), i.e. perceive (with inward spiritual perception).

Horaó is often used metaphorically in the sense "to see with the mind" (i.e. spiritually see), i.e. perceive (with inward spiritual perception). There were many false messiah telling the Jews in Jerusalem, God would deliver them from the Romans. Then the 3.5 year siege occurred, Romans without, and Zealots within, with their swords against their brothers and neighbors (Zech. 14:13). There was rampant disease, plagues, famine, cannibalism, and internal strife and factional manslaughter that occurred in those 3.5 years. And then the wall of Jerusalem fell and Romans legions stormed in, how did the surviving Jews horaó (see) these turn of events through these 3.5 long years? They must have realized they had been lied to by false messiahs and God was not going to deliver them nor deliver Jerusalem. They must have wailed, mourned, and lamented to the heavens.

3772. ouranos
Strong's Concordance
ouranos: heaven
Original Word: οὐρανός, οῦ, ὁ
Part of Speech: Noun, Masculine
Transliteration: ouranos
Phonetic Spelling: (oo-ran-os')
Short Definition: the sky, the heaven
Definition: heaven, (a) the visible heavens: the atmosphere, the sky, the starry heavens, (b) the spiritual heavens.

Ouranos is the third heaven spoken of in Psalm 97:2 where clouds, darkness, judgment, and righteousness inhabit; and the third heaven in which Paul was taken up to in the spirit in 2 Cor. 12:2,4. For another example of a Glory-Cloud judgment read Isa. 19:1,4!

Sorry I tried to be fancy and all with the color schemes but they're very difficult to read... so highlight 'em if you must!

 

[random person]

Now lets try Matthew 24:31:

And he shall send his angels (aggelos #32) with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together (episunagó #1996) his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

32. aggelos
Strong's Concordance
aggelos: an angel, messenger
Original Word: ἄγγελος, ου, ὁ
Part of Speech: Noun, Masculine
Transliteration: aggelos
Phonetic Spelling: (ang'-el-os)
Short Definition: an angel, messenger
Definition: a messenger, generally a (supernatural) messenger from God, an angel, conveying news or behests from God to men.

Aggelos simply means messengers or preachers of the Gospel, check out all of these other verses where this same Greek word aggelos is used: Matt 11:10; Mark 1:2; Luke 7:27; Luke 7:24; Luke 9:52; James 2:25. Could it be these aggelos in this verse aren't supernatural but ordinary men sharing the Gospel in obeying the Great Commission? We preterists believe so.

1996. episunagó
Strong's Concordance
episunagó: to gather together
Original Word: ἐπισυνάγω
Part of Speech: Verb
Transliteration: episunagó
Phonetic Spelling: (ep-ee-soon-ag'-o)
Short Definition: I collect, gather together
Definition: I collect, gather together, assemble.
HELPS Word-studies
1996 episynágō (from 1909 /epí, "on, fitting" and 4863 /synágō, "gather together") – properly, bring together (gather), i.e. group together (collect), especially to accomplish the intended purpose of the gathering. (Note the force of the prefix, 1909 /epí.)

Episunagó is the same word used in Hebrews 10:25, it simply means the assembling of the elect together -- church fellowship. The aggelos are preaching the Gospel and winning souls and episunagó these won souls into the churches! We preterists believe so.

 

[Berean777]

"Don't you get it friend the dead in Christ are rising first and have been rising first, lol."

Wrong .... where do you get your info from some "church" pamphlet .... your stuff does not match


Truth:

John
3:13 And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven.

I think you left out the context unintentionally. Here it is:

Jn 3:12-15
12 If I have told you earthly things, and ye believe not, how shall ye believe, if I tell you of heavenly things?

Jesus is telling them that he had heavenly knowledge because he came from heaven.

13 And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven.

Jesus is confirming that he came from heaven and before him coming in human form, even at the time he spoke these words, no human being had ascended up into heaven. This is a true statement at that point in time and there is no argument there.

14 And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up:

Notice before him was Moses and Moses was used as a reference point to point out that no person before him in present tense has gone up into heaven, because the Son of Man had not yet gone up into heaven. Therefore it first required the Son of Man to go into heaven before any man can follow him up there too.

15 That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life.
(KJV)

Now the context appears that after Christ Jesus was raised then that opened the heavens gates for first humans to follow him by going up there into heaven.

Mat 27:52-53
52 And the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints which slept arose, 53 And came out of the graves AFTER HIS RESURRECTION, and went into the holy city, and appeared unto many.
(KJV)

AND GUESS WHO WERE THE FIRST TO FOLLOW HIM INTO HEAVEN?

The versus below in compliance with the Matthew versus above declare the Old Covenant Saints who were waiting fire the Messiah to come were the first fruits of the harvest of God. These are the symbol of the 144,000 who were the first to be redeemed from amongst men who sing the song of Moses. Christ is not a first fruitS of the harvest but rather in the Jewish language the coma is missing and therefore Christ is the forerunner to the resurrection and those old covenant saints who had been waiting immediately AFTER CHRIST WAS RAISED became the firstfruits of the harvest of God.

1Co 15:23
23 But every man in his own order:Christ, THE FIRSTFRUITS; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.
(KJV)

 

[ThatTrueLight]

Wrong again, there are no men in heaven yet because the resurrection hasn't happened yet, because CHRIST hast come yet.

 

[Berean777]

CHRIST HAS COME Almost 2000 years ago

1 Corinthians 15:12-19
Now if Christ be preached that he rose from the dead, how say some among you that there is no resurrection of the dead? But if there be no resurrection of the dead, then is Christ not risen: And if Christ be not risen, then is our preaching vain, and your faith is also vain. Yea, and we are found false witnesses of God; because we have testified of God that he raised up Christ: whom he raised not up, if so be that the dead rise not. For if the dead rise not, then is not Christ raised: And if Christ be not raised, your faith is vain; ye are yet in your sins. Then they also which are fallen asleep in Christ are perished. If in this life only we have hope in Christ, we are of all men most miserable.

 

[ThatTrueLight]

Oh, trust me I know it's what all the rulers of this dark world want ment to believe, that it's all in the past.

As we see that day approaching.

 

[Straightshot]

"I think you left out the context unintentionally"


What you think .... and what I know from scripture do not jive son

 

[dougangel]

The context of all tribes of the earth will see the Son of man coming in the clouds is not pointing a natural clouds seen by natural eyes. Clouds is a symbol of the Holy Ones that acomoany Christ who are the angelic heavenly host. So if we refer back to the acts of the apostles we come to the understanding that Saint Stephan one of the men of Galilee before being killed witnessed the Son coming with the cloud in heaven and everyone else was oblivious to what he saw because it was a supernatural discernment that Saint Stephan was given just before his death.

1 thess 4

13 Brothers and sisters, we do not want you to be uninformed about those who sleep in death, so that you do not grieve like the rest of mankind, who have no hope. 14 For we believe that Jesus died and rose again, and so we believe that God will bring with Jesus those who have fallen asleep in him. 15 According to the Lord’s word, we tell you that we who are still alive, who are left until the coming of the Lord, will certainly not precede those who have fallen asleep. 16 For the Lord himself will come down from heaven, with a loud command, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet call of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first. 17 After that, we who are still alive and are left will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so we will be with the Lord forever. 18 Therefore encourage one another with these words.

 

[BABerean2]

1 thess 4

13 Brothers and sisters, we do not want you to be uninformed about those who sleep in death, so that you do not grieve like the rest of mankind, who have no hope. 14 For we believe that Jesus died and rose again, and so we believe that God will bring with Jesus those who have fallen asleep in him. 15 According to the Lord’s word, we tell you that we who are still alive, who are left until the coming of the Lord, will certainly not precede those who have fallen asleep. 16 For the Lord himself will come down from heaven, with a loud command, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet call of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first. 17 After that, we who are still alive and are left will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so we will be with the Lord forever. 18 Therefore encourage one another with these words.

We have to remember when Paul wrote this letter there were no chapters, the chapters and verses were added hundreds of years later.
The next verse begins with the word "but". Therefore, we know it is connected to chapter 4.



1Th 5:1 But of the times and the seasons, brethren, ye have no need that I write unto you.


1Th 5:2 For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night.
The day of the Lord and as a thief in the night, connect the passage to 2nd Peter 3:10 and Rev. 16:15.
These verses refer to the Second Coming of Christ.


1Th 5:3 For when they shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape. This is a reference to the ungodly.


1Th 5:4 But ye, brethren, are not in darkness, that that day should overtake you as a thief.
It will not come as a thief to Christians.


1Th 5:5 Ye are all the children of light, and the children of the day: we are not of the night, nor of darkness.


1Th 5:6 Therefore let us not sleep, as do others; but let us watch and be sober.


1Th 5:7 For they that sleep sleep in the night; and they that be drunken are drunken in the night.


1Th 5:8 But let us, who are of the day, be sober, putting on the breastplate of faith and love; and for an helmet, the hope of salvation.


1Th 5:9 For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ,

(Rom 5:9 Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him.)

Romans 5:9 contains a similar reference. Jesus took our wrath at the Cross.
We know from chapter 4 that we will be gathered by Christ at the beginning of His Second Coming, before He pours out His wrath on the unbelievers at the battle of Armageddon.


1Th 5:10 Who died for us, that, whether we wake or sleep, we should live together with him.
The reference to "sleep" in this verse connects chapter 5 to chapter 4, showing they are about the same event.

.

 

[Straightshot]

"No I dont, I don't get why anyone would say that"


Yes you do ThatTrueLight

These guys have been taught that humans are already in heaven and have been going there for centuries

They do not want to wait for the Lord [1 Corinthians 15:20-23] .... but all must wait [Romans 8]