The No-Straw-Man Calvinism challenge.

[ToBeLoved]

Okay, anybody who believes gets eternal life. It's a distinction without a difference.

What's the distinction without a difference ? I'm confused.

 

[dad]

If you say so.

No doubt. He that comes to Jesus He will in no possible way ever cast out. We're in with the in crowd then, the chosen ones. Those folks who are cast out did not come to Him sincerely.

 

[dad]

Or even thinking they believe but not really believing.

Well, there was a guy in the bible who asked the Lord to help His unbelief. In other he only believed a little bit and needed help. But he wanted to believe. So if the heart is right the rest will follow. I don't think it is a matter of thinking we believe so much as having the heart right with God. After all, faith grows, doesn't it, over time? So if we see someone with what appears to be little or no faith, maybe God's working on them. Maybe one day they will have a lot.

The cons who Jesus talked about were just not right in the heart at all.

 

[Monk Brendan]

I never said it did. It also doesn't say that everyone can.

EVERYONE, that is, all human beings are allowed to choose God's mercy and love. How can you believe otherwise?

 

[Hammster]

But there IS a distinction. Calvin, by preaching the way he preached, put God in a box. He limited God. God is illimitable. Not only is He unlimited, but He cannot be limited. Unlike some, who would say that a Hindu could never get to heaven, what about this man I have heard of.

There is a man in Calcutta who every day, goes out to the people on the streets of the city. He takes care of homeless people's feet. He washes feet, binds wounds, gives people shoes, and so on. Now, how is this man not following Jesus words in Matthew 25:35-40 for I was hungry and you gave Me food; I was thirsty and you gave Me drink; I was a stranger and you took Me in; 36 I was naked and you clothed Me; I was sick and you visited Me; I was in prison and you came to Me.’

37 “Then the righteous will answer Him, saying, ‘Lord, when did we see You hungry and feed You, or thirsty and give You drink? 38 When did we see You a stranger and take You in, or naked and clothe You? 39 Or when did we see You sick, or in prison, and come to You?’ 40 And the King will answer and say to them, ‘Assuredly, I say to you, inasmuch as you did it to one of the least of these My brethren, you did it to Me.’

Is this man not doing EXACTLY what Jesus was talking about? How can you, just because he never heard of Jesus, send him to hell?

I am not the one who sends people to hell.

 

[Hammster]

EVERYONE, that is, all human beings are allowed to choose God's mercy and love. How can you believe otherwise?

Are we still discussing John 3:16, or have you moved the goalposts?

 

[Hammster]

Name a verse or two that is so burned in the KJV in those books?

Off topic to the thread.

 

[dad]

EVERYONE, that is, all human beings are allowed to choose God's mercy and love. How can you believe otherwise?

I wonder if the Calvinists think that some people were pre destined to not be able to chose God?

 

[Monk Brendan]

I am not the one who sends people to hell.

Nor am I. Nor is God. God's choice of giving us free will means that we get to choose whether we want to go to heaven or go to hell. Lots of people go to hell because they cannot stand the light of Christ. Other people go to heaven because they have always chosen to look FOR the light.

 

[Monk Brendan]

Are we still discussing John 3:16, or have you moved the goalposts?

Nope, same goalpost. Jesus IS the goal. I am expanding on the clear message of the gospel, pointing out other things others may not have thought of.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

Now, how is this man not following Jesus words

Same as others,
who Jesus tells on Judgment Day "bye bye".
Multitudes of them.

 

[Hammster]

I wonder if the Calvinists think that some people were pre destined to not be able to chose God?

No, most don't think that.

 

[Hammster]

Nor am I. Nor is God. God's choice of giving us free will means that we get to choose whether we want to go to heaven or go to hell. Lots of people go to hell because they cannot stand the light of Christ. Other people go to heaven because they have always chosen to look FOR the light.

“"Then He will also say to those on His left, 'Depart from Me, accursed ones, into the eternal fire which has been prepared for the devil and his angels;

These will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life."”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭25:41, 46‬ ‭NASB‬‬

Jesus sends them to hell.

 

[Monk Brendan]

Same as others,
who Jesus tells on Judgment Day "bye bye".
Multitudes of them.

You missed the point. Okay, Jesus did not say, "I was in Calcutta without shoes, and my feet were bleeding, and you bound the wounds and gave me shoes." I admit that. But you are believing that God will not have mercy on those who do what He commands. Just because that Hindu did not walk down an aisle and declare his intention to live for Jesus the rest of his life, and then follow through on that, does that mean that God is UNABLE to have mercy on him? Think carefully, your own salvation hangs in the balance.

Because if you say that God is unable--or even unwilling--to have mercy on this particular person, then God will be unwilling to show you the mercy that you believe you deserve, because of your inability to have mercy on a person that God wants to give mercy to. JUDGE NOT, etc.

 

[Hammster]

Nope, same goalpost. Jesus IS the goal. I am expanding on the clear message of the gospel, pointing out other things others may not have thought of.

Then you'll have to defend your assertion because John 3:16 doesn't support it.

 

[Monk Brendan]

Then you'll have to defend your assertion because John 3:16 doesn't support it.

Oh? In what way?

 

[Hammster]

Oh? In what way?

In any way. It's not in the text, nor implied.

 

[ToBeLoved]

Well, there was a guy in the bible who asked the Lord to help His unbelief. In other he only believed a little bit and needed help. But he wanted to believe. So if the heart is right the rest will follow. I don't think it is a matter of thinking we believe so much as having the heart right with God. After all, faith grows, doesn't it, over time? So if we see someone with what appears to be little or no faith, maybe God's working on them. Maybe one day they will have a lot.

The cons who Jesus talked about were just not right in the heart at all.

I was talking more about ppl who grew up going to church or following God and in their minds default to Jesus out of having experiences throughout life rather than making a concrete choice to choose God.

Does that make sense

 

[Monk Brendan]

In any way. It's not in the text, nor implied.

If this is a debate, then you must give a substantive answer.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

You missed the point. Okay, Jesus did not say, "I was in Calcutta without shoes, and my feet were bleeding, and you bound the wounds and gave me shoes." I admit that. But you are believing that God will not have mercy on those who do what He commands. Just because that Hindu did not walk down an aisle and declare his intention to live for Jesus the rest of his life, and then follow through on that, does that mean that God is UNABLE to have mercy on him? Think carefully, your own salvation hangs in the balance.

Because if you say that God is unable--or even unwilling--to have mercy on this particular person, then God will be unwilling to show you the mercy that you believe you deserve, because of your inability to have mercy on a person that God wants to give mercy to. JUDGE NOT, etc.

This doesn't make sense actually.
You have wrongly assumed a false premise, and posted it as a false accusation, so nothing that follows the false statement, especially, is of any truth.
Whatever you believe or posted before what you posted that is false, is also completely subject to testing , not accepted until proven true to God's Word.