The No-Straw-Man Calvinism challenge.

[Hammster]

If this is a debate, then you must give a substantive answer.

You made a statement. I said you'll have to defend it. You've not done that. I've already said that it doesn't support your assertion. And I've already said that all the verse says is that anybody who believes received eternal life.

I'm not sure what I can add.

 

[jimmyjimmy]

It means people who chose to love Jesus basically.

That's both illogical and unbiblical.

 

[Haipule]

This is off topic.

How do you expect me to challenge reform, or post-reform theology with out using the God-Breathed Scriptures in their autographed language to expose the fallacy of "Salvation" and "Gospel" given us by men whom only knew the Latin translation and nothing of the original languages of the bible?

There is no "Holy Spirit" translation!

 

[Hammster]

How do you expect me to challenge reform, or post-reform theology with out using the God-Breathed Scriptures in their autographed language to expose the fallacy of "Salvation" a "Gospel" given us by men whom only knew the Latin translation and nothing of the original languages of the bible?

There is no "Holy Spirit" translation!

You can use the guideline set in the OP.

 

[Haipule]

You made a statement. I said you'll have to defend it. You've not done that. I've already said that it doesn't support your assertion. And I've already said that all the verse says is that anybody who believes received eternal life.

I'm not sure what I can add.

"And I've already said that all the verse says is that anybody who believes received eternal life."

That's what I mean: there is not a single verse in the autographed language of the bible that supports that Reform thought--not one!

Certainly not John 3:16! "Believes" is a present participle and refers to a continuous action of trusting NOT a one shot decision! aiOnion is: ai = breath; On = being/existence; aiOn = breath-being and refers to a unspecified length of time; ion = belonging-to and it is in it's accusative(direct object of the verb) form.

It is zOEn aiOnion = zOE-life(feminine), breath-being-belong-to-her: right here, right now, NOT "eternal life"!

 

[Hammster]

"And I've already said that all the verse says is that anybody who believes received eternal life."

That's what I mean: there is not a single verse in the autographed language of the bible that supports that Reform thought--not one!

Certainly not John 3:16! "Believes" is a present participle and refers to a continuous action of trusting NOT a one shot decision! aiOnion is: ai = breath; On = being/existence; aiOn = breath-being and refers to a unspecified length of time; ion = belonging-to and it is in it's accusative(direct object of the verb) form.

It is zOEn aiOnion = zOE-life(feminine), breath-being-belong-to-her: right here, right now, NOT "eternal life"!

I never said it was a one shot decision. I don't hold to once saved always saved.

 

[jimmyjimmy]

No, your profession is not God. If we chose Him, He already chose us.

This is getting more and more ridiculous.

Israel was called, "God's chosen people". Was that because Israel chose Him?

 

[Hammster]

It is zOEn aiOnion = zOE-life(feminine), breath-being-belong-to-her: right here, right now, NOT "eternal life"!

You only gave the definition of zoe.

 

[jimmyjimmy]

How do you expect me to challenge reform, or post-reform theology with out using the God-Breathed Scriptures in their autographed language to expose the fallacy of "Salvation" and "Gospel" given us by men whom only knew the Latin translation and nothing of the original languages of the bible?

There is no "Holy Spirit" translation!

Read the OP, for starters.

 

[Hammster]

Read the OP, for starters.

Crazy, right?

 

[Haipule]

Read the OP, for starters.

This was my original response to the OP which was on point. And I all got from Hamster was "What's the point?" So I'm making my point and being ridiculed by you two. Shall I bring it to the board for review?

Canons of Dordt

"FIRST HEAD: ARTICLE 2. but in this the love of God was manifested, that He "sent his one and only Son into the world, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life." (1 John 4:9, John 3:16)."

John 3:16 is very poorly translated and misleading--rather:

For(assigning a reason) thusly He-agapaO-loves*, thee God, thee kosmos-world even-as-and-also thee Son of-Him-same, namely--thee uniquely-begotten-One, He-gives* that(purpose) any thee one-keeps-on-trusting(present participle--continuous action) into Him-same no he-might-be(acting upon himself--stupidly)-be-rendered-useless but-rather he-might-be(and keep on)-having zOE-life(feminine), breath-being-belong-to-her(right here, right now). John 3:16

Your little leaven has leavened the whole lump! If I may borrow a phrase from Paul.

 

[jimmyjimmy]

This was my original response to the OP which was on point. And I all got from Hamster was "What's the point?"

I read your first post, and I was left wondering what your point was, as well.

Maybe you could give more of an explanation.

 

[Haipule]

I read your first post, and I was left wondering what your point was, as well.

Maybe you could give more of an explanation.

We're not going through that again! "that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life." quoting the article, is badly translated, misleading and completely manipulated to teach reform soteriology rather than the zOE-life of God's promise that Jesus clearly intended.

 

[Hammster]

We're not going through that again! "that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life." quoting the article, is badly translated, misleading and completely manipulated to teach reform soteriology rather than the zOE-life of God's promise that Jesus clearly intended.

Well, I guess you win. No eternal life for believers.

 

[Haipule]

Well, I guess you win. No eternal life for believers.

Quit being flippant and playing dumb. The autographed language of the bible clearly teaches a Shepherd and sheep relationship leading to zOE-life here and now that will last forever! Is it the Lamb's book of zOE-life--literally? Or is it a book of the "believers/salvation/gospel"?

Who does not suffer the 2nd death? That's right--the sheep! "Goats--Lake of Fire, sheep--Come with Me!" So it is as I have said before: OSAS--Once a Sheep, Always a Sheep!

 

[BobRyan]

And it turns out that you used all of those verses out of context.

Not in real life.

 

[jimmyjimmy]

We're not going through that again! "that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life." quoting the article, is badly translated, misleading and completely manipulated to teach reform soteriology rather than the zOE-life of God's promise that Jesus clearly intended.

I wouldn't call that a particularly Reformed view of the verse.

 

[BobRyan]

Can Christ's bride choose no?

"He came to HIS OWN - and HIS OWN received Him not" John 1:11

"Jerusalem how I WANTED to spare your children... but YOU would not" Matt 23

"I forgave you all that debt... turn him over to the torturers... so shall My Father do to each one of you if you do not forgive each one his brother from his heart" Matthew 18

Romans 11
" 20 Quite right, they were broken off for their unbelief, but you stand by your faith. Do not be conceited, but fear; 21 for if God did not spare the natural branches, He will not spare you, either. 22 Behold then the kindness and severity of God; to those who fell, severity, but to you, God’s kindness, if you continue in His kindness; otherwise you also will be cut off. 23 And they also, if they do not continue in their unbelief, will be grafted in, for God is able to graft them in again.


less Calvinism ... more Bible

 

[BobRyan]

I think that John 3 states that God's wrath remains on unbelievers. Ephesians 2 says unbelievers are by nature children of wrath. So I am not seeing how God needs to do anything further.

Indeed - not a thing if He is "willing that all should perish"

 

[Hammster]

Quit being flippant and playing dumb. The autographed language of the bible clearly teaches a Shepherd and sheep relationship leading to zOE-life here and now that will last forever! Is it the Lamb's book of zOE-life--literally? Or is it a book of the "believers/salvation/gospel"?

Who does not suffer the 2nd death? That's right--the sheep! "Goats--Lake of Fire, sheep--Come with Me!" So it is as I have said before: OSAS--Once a Sheep, Always a Sheep!

So your argument against Calvinism is....?