The No-Straw-Man Calvinism challenge.

[redleghunter]

The way He does that is spelled out. We simply need to believe and ask. He does not make anyone alive unless they do.
Doing what He commanded, and asking and choosing Him is not merit. That is a sinned saved by grace!
When we come to Jesus and ask, He does that. When men reject and refuse He doesn't. In either case it is our choice that determines our fate, according to His plan and will.

Yep the same. No engagement.

 

[redleghunter]

Then what happens?

He asked you to start a different thread.

If you do many will respond to the heresy of materialism

 

[dad]

You completely ignored the exegesis presented. Let me know when you want to seriously engage me.

The verses cited mean something different than what you supposed. You have no monopoly on opinion.

 

[redleghunter]

The verses cited mean something different than what you supposed. You have no monopoly on opinion.

The words themselves have meaning and I laid out the definitions of Foreknowledge as opposed to Predestined.

If you are operating from a different lexicon with different definitions, please post it up.

Pony up dad.

 

[Hammster]

Yes, after we came to Him, believed in Him, and asked.

Every man can do that if the choose to.

That’s not what the passage said. You need to stop reading what isn’t there.

 

[Hammster]

So I quoted from your link, on the false doctrine it advocated in regards immortal soul/spirit theology which is central to Calvinism, and in the link you provided the 1689 London Baptist Confession of Faith, I cited directly from, and refuted it.

Then what happens?

You do not respond to the material, but (babylonian) whine about it, and then a day later my post suddenly goes missing.

Shows you cannot defend the point without force.

So here's the deal.

Who is the key figure in Calvinism?

Jean Calvin.

What did John Calvin write on the issue of the state of the dead?

Psychopannychia

Which was Jean Calvins' treatise against soul sleep.

He must have been asleep at the wheel when he wrote it.

Your link posts the same abused and wrested scripture, which I directly cited from, and refuted.

You were unable to refute the point.

My post is no longer available.

At least I can defend what I believe from scripture, logically and coherently and without use of force.

You have demonstrated what you are.

Scripture identifies such action also.

There's even a colour that goes with it.

Next time you just want a place to pontificate, don't bother asking for challengers to refute your imaginary religion if you weren't actually serious.

Last time I'll post in this waste of time.

Thanks.

 

[dad]

The words themselves have meaning and I laid out the definitions of Foreknowledge as opposed to Predestined.

"

1. to predetermine, decide beforehand
2. in the NT of God decreeing from eternity
3. to foreordain, appoint beforehand"

New Testament Greek - StudyLight.org

So, He laid out the plan of salvation in advance. So WE the group of believers that would exist would be part of this plan, and the plan was that we could now choose life because of what Jesus did. The plan was not that we were mind numbed robots with no choice, destined to be saved or damned!

 

[dad]

That’s not what the passage said. You need to stop reading what isn’t there.

The bible is a big book and there is lots in there. That is why cherry picking certain verses that seem to show some contradiction is a bad thing.

The passage does not need to lay out all details of how we get saved!

"4 But God, being rich in mercy, because of the great love with which he loved us,
5 even when we were dead in our trespasses, made us alive together with Christ-by grace you have been saved- "

So when we were unsaved, (and did what He asked...which is in the bible six ways from Sunday of course, namely come to Him, repent..ask) -- He then made us alive! He did not zap us in our sleep. He did not wave a wand and a certain group of people were saved. He made a way!

This has zero to do with a lack of being able to choose.

 

[Hammster]

The bible is a big book and there is lots in there. That is why cherry picking certain verses that seem to show some contradiction is a bad thing.

The passage does not need to lay out all details of how we get saved!

"4 But God, being rich in mercy, because of the great love with which he loved us,
5 even when we were dead in our trespasses, made us alive together with Christ-by grace you have been saved- "

So when we were unsaved, (and did what He asked...which is in the bible six ways from Sunday of course, namely come to Him, repent..ask) -- He then made us alive! He did not zap us in our sleep. He did not wave a wand and a certain group of people were saved. He made a way!

This has zero to do with a lack of being able to choose.

Yes, He made us alive. New heart. Born again. Regenerated.

Then we believe. Then we choose.

 

[dad]

Yes, He made us alive. New heart. Born again. Regenerated.

Then we believe. Then we choose.

One guy asked Jesus to help his unbelief, showing he wanted to believe (more at least) but was having problems. Jesus fixed it. So he chose and it was counted apparently as belief. The bible says faith comes by hearing the word of God. So as believers grow over time and hear the word, hopeful their faith will grow. That means that they believe more after getting saved!

A bit like a baby drinking milk on her mother's breast. You can't expect the poor baby would drink milk before it was born!

Don't put the cart before the horse. When we repent and ask Jesus to save us, that is choosing. Faith grows after that.

 

[Hammster]

One guy asked Jesus to help his unbelief, showing he wanted to believe (more at least) but was having problems. Jesus fixed it. So he chose and it was counted apparently as belief. The bible says faith comes by hearing the word of God. So as believers grow over time and hear the word, hopeful their faith will grow. That means that they believe more after getting saved!

A bit like a baby drinking milk on her mother's breast. You can't expect the poor baby would drink milk before it was born!

Don't put the cart before the horse. When we repent and ask Jesus to save us, that is choosing. Faith grows after that.

That’s not what the story says. Go back and read it.

 

[dad]

That’s not what the story says. Go back and read it.

Well, the son was healed. Looking at folks in the bible, many hardly seem like they first had tons of faith, then later chose to be saved!!

 

[Hammster]

A bit like a baby drinking milk on her mother's breast. You can't expect the poor baby would drink milk before it was born!

Right. You must be born again before you can do anything.