The No-Straw-Man Calvinism challenge.

[Mountainmanbob]

True, it takes God's help, and we all have that as far as choosing. No excuse not the choose Him. However not all men yield to His drawing in.

When Paul got blinded and knocked off his donkey he was not choosing.

If God has a purpose for you, He will get you there. Right where you are willing or not.

M-Bob

 

[redleghunter]

Actually the time is coming and now is when the dead shall hear and live!!

New American Standard 1977
“Truly, truly, I say to you, an hour is coming and now is, when the dead shall hear the voice of the Son of God; and those who hear shall live.


Top that!

That actually supports what I've been presenting.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

But don't forget Balaam. Different donkey, different end result, because he rejected Yahweh's Way, as most do today, instead of willingly accepting Yahweh's Way as the Apostle Paul did.

 

[gordonhooker]

But don't forget Balaam. Different donkey, different end result, because he rejected Yahweh's Way, as most do today, instead of willingly accepting Yahweh's Way as the Apostle Paul did.

I am wondering what the parody Balaam and his Donkey has to do with this. Balaam the seer and diviner was blind and donkey could see.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

I am wondering what the parody Balaam and his Donkey has to do with this. Balaam the seer and diviner was blind and donkey could see.

I think someone implied or said that the Apostle Paul didn't have a choice.
I believe it is clear that both Paul and Balaam had a choice,
as did everyone
to whom Yahweh Says: "Choose Today Who you will serve",
and
"Today, IF you will hear His Voice, do not rebel as they did in the wilderness"

 

[gordonhooker]

I think someone implied or said that the Apostle Paul didn't have a choice.
I believe it is clear that both Paul and Balaam had a choice,
as did everyone
to whom Yahweh Says: "Choose Today Who you will serve",
and
"Today, IF you will hear His Voice, do not rebel as they did in the wilderness"

OK thanks brother - you have a great day.

 

[dad]

When Paul got blinded and knocked off his donkey he was not choosing.

If God has a purpose for you, He will get you there. Right where you are willing or not.

M-Bob

Yes he was. Just as Judas chose to reject Him. Jesus reasoned with Paul, knowing his heart. There are times when God reveals Himself pretty clearly for some people.

 

[dad]

That actually supports what I've been presenting.

Great, so the dead can hear. Don't give me that stuff about 'we are dead before we chose, so we can't choose'. Yes we can.

 

[redleghunter]

Great, so the dead can hear. Don't give me that stuff about 'we are dead before we chose, so we can't choose'. Yes we can.

What part did Lazarus play in his rising from the dead?

 

[redleghunter]

Yes he was. Just as Judas chose to reject Him. Jesus reasoned with Paul, knowing his heart. There are times when God reveals Himself pretty clearly for some people.

No, Judas betrayed Christ to fulfill the Scriptures. This was predestined by God. Of course he chose to do what he did because he was obeying his master.

Or did you think God rolled the dice and said “wonder if Judas is going to do that? Maybe I should wait and see.”

What you have presented thus far is a chaotic mess of human decisions. As if God waits like a beggar with hat in hand just hoping someone will answer His call.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

What part did Lazarus play in his rising from the dead?

What did Yahshua (Jesus) tell Lazarus to do ?

 

[dad]

What part did Lazarus play in his rising from the dead?

He heard the voice of Jesus. But he was not spiritually dead, just physically dead. His part therefore was believing Jesus as far as getting saved went. Saved people do die you know.

 

[dad]

No, Judas betrayed Christ to fulfill the Scriptures.

His choice fulfilled Scripture.

This was predestined by God.

In the sense God knew what he would chose.

Of course he chose to do what he did because he was obeying his master.

The devil...of course was his master, especially after a certain point.

Or did you think God rolled the dice and said “wonder if Judas is going to do that? Maybe I should wait and see.”

God knew, but that does not mean God made him do it. That reminds me of Jesus Christ Superstar, where they made Judas the hero/victim. No way.

What you have presented thus far is a chaotic mess of human decisions. As if God waits like a beggar with hat in hand just hoping someone will answer His call.

The decision is to receive Jesus or reject Him, very simple. The chaos comes when you try to make God some monster that had it all arranged in advance and created people to burn in hell.

 

[redleghunter]

What did Yahshua (Jesus) tell Lazarus to do ?

Told him to rise. Thus my point. We are dead in our trespasses until made alive by Christ.

 

[redleghunter]

He heard the voice of Jesus.

Very good, which means Jesus Called Lazarus and he responded to the call and was dead no longer. Lazarus did not initiate this special meeting.

But he was not spiritually dead

You keep missing this point. Lazarus dead in the tomb is an example of our spiritual deadness.

just physically dead

Yes

His part therefore was believing Jesus as far as getting saved went.

At what point in the tomb when he was rotting did Lazarus choose Jesus? He did not he was dead. He needed someone to awaken him.

Saved people do die you know.

Yes we all assume room temperature at some time in our journey here on earth. But has nothing to do with the depiction I painted for you.

 

[redleghunter]

His choice fulfilled Scripture.

That means God does what we want Him to do?

In the sense God knew what he would chose.

Ah. So God waited for Judas to act then spun around in time to have the prophets write what Judas did in Scriptures so Judas would actually do what God saw him do on the original timeline?

The devil...of course was his master, especially after a certain point.

You may want to explore Romans chapters 6 and 7. It explains the bondage of the human will and free it ain’t.

God knew, but that does not mean God made him do it. That reminds me of Jesus Christ Superstar, where they made Judas the hero/victim. No way.

Actually Peter tells us in Acts 3 and Acts 4 that God predetemined the arrest suffering and death of Jesus Christ. Peter also said the men who did this acted according to their wicked ways. But indeed God did predestine and foreordain the events that happened. If He did not we would have a Deistic God and not a Theistic God.

But you should already know this because I laid it out for you in a post pages ago and you keep coming back with the incoherent one liners.

The decision is to receive Jesus or reject Him, very simple. The chaos comes when you try to make God some monster that had it all arranged in advance and created people to burn in hell.

Ah the old monster deal when one cannot back up their material views with Scriptures.

It’s a wee bit the grass calling the clover green.

 

[dad]

Very good, which means Jesus Called Lazarus and he responded to the call and was dead no longer. Lazarus did not initiate this special meeting.

He was already saved. So he was never dead, only sleeping. That is the term we use for believers who 'die'.

You keep missing this point. Lazarus dead in the tomb is an example of our spiritual deadness.

No. He was saved.

At what point in the tomb when he was rotting did Lazarus choose Jesus? He did not he was dead. He needed someone to awaken him.

He got saved before he died.

 

[dad]

That means God does what we want Him to do?

It means the betrayal was something known about in advance.

Ah. So God waited for Judas to act then spun around in time to have the prophets write what Judas did in Scriptures so Judas would actually do what God saw him do on the original timeline?

Jesus knew long before He was on earth.

You may want to explore Romans chapters 6 and 7. It explains the bondage of the human will and free it ain’t.

You misunderstand it.

Actually Peter tells us in Acts 3 and Acts 4 that God predetemined the arrest suffering and death of Jesus Christ.

That means He knew about it. Not that He arranged it.

Peter also said the men who did this acted according to their wicked ways. But indeed God did predestine and foreordain the events that happened. If He did not we would have a Deistic God and not a Theistic God.

No. He works within our choices. Knowing what we will choose is not making us choose.

Ah the old monster deal when one cannot back up their material views with Scriptures.

He neither died for nothing (if our choices were all pre arranged anyhow) nor is He a monster that created people to have no choice but to go to hell.

Those who know Him should know that.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

Told him to rise. Thus my point. We are dead in our trespasses until made alive by Christ.

Lazarus obeyed Jesus , and not just rising and walking out of the tomb.
Lazarus obeyed Jesus BEFORE Lazarus died.

So this is not a good analogy nor a good example :

You keep missing this point. Lazarus dead in the tomb is an example of our spiritual deadness.

Since most people do not obey Jesus in time to be saved... as written in Revelation the whole world refuses to repent in these last days, they refuse to stop serving(worshiping) demons !

Lazarus and the Ekklesia in the New Testament and since then are examples of people who live obeying Jesus,
though the whole world rejects Him and does not obey Him.

 

[Hammster]

True, it takes God's help, and we all have that as far as choosing. No excuse not the choose Him. However not all men yield to His drawing in.

Why must you distort scripture? It nowhere says we need God’s help. It’s very specific. God draws, Christ raises up.