The Murder Of George Floyd

[High Fidelity]

Well, this is what happens when the police are out of control... It's the inevitable end result... It's happened before, and it will happen again and again... Until the police stop killing.

I get that. I am not denying that this was murder, that all officers involved should have known what was happening and are accessory in some degree.

What doesn't make sense is the looting and property damage of businesses and individuals outside of city/state property.

This is just an excuse for many to 'get theirs' and not care about the circumstances providing a distraction for their own selfish intentions.

 

[RDKirk]

an rioting when one person is killed by a person of another skin color but indifference when hundreds and thousands are killed by those of the same skin color.

There isn't indifference, there is lack of knowledge and ability to know what to do about it.

The contrast is between one social entity that is supposed to be under government control--the police force--and another social entity which is explicitly designed by the laws of the United States not to be under government control--the average citizen.

How do I control my unlawful neighbor? Well, I can call the police. But what if the police have demonstrated time and again that they can't tell the difference between me and my neighbor, and that calling the police is just as likely to get me in trouble as my unlawful neighbor? Or that they'll just kill my neighbor, and I don't particularly want that result?

You've probably heard about this story:
Stop Calling The Police On Black People

At this point, millions of people have likely seen the viral video of the woman being dubbed as “Central Park Karen,” who called 911 on an innocent Black man. The incident happened in an area of Central Park known as Ramble, where dogs are required to be on leashes. In the viral video, viewers watch as a confrontation ensues when a White woman who has been identified as Amy Cooper erupts in emotion after a Black man, who happened to be in the park birdwatching, asks her to put her dog on a leash.

This white woman called 911 and explicitly said, "an African-American man is attacking me." She said that multiple times to the 911 dispatcher.

Now...she clearly called because she expected a police response. Let's speculate just a bit about what result she expected from the police by saying "an African-American man is attacking me?"

Is this different from the lie that Carolyn Bryant told that got Emmett Till murdered in the 1950s?

This is a wholly different perception of the results expected from a police call by black people and white people.

 

[ZNP]

I have dealt with Project Innocence and know one of their top attorneys who is now a judge. She would tell you that this happens to people of all colors.

Those cops should be arrested ASAP.

M

ASAP will be as soon as the Prosecutor has a strong case with all his evidence lined up. the video alone is not sufficient to prosecute. These police are part of a union and will be receiving very strong defense from attorneys who specialize in these cases.

the protestors are idiots. If you force the police to arrest them then they have to charge them and they have the right to a speedy trial. If you are not ready to go to trial you are not ready to arrest.

 

[Handmaid for Jesus]

Well, this is what happens when the police are out of control... It's the inevitable end result... It's happened before, and it will happen again and again... Until the police stop killing.

...This is not surprising in any way. In fact, it's predictable.

Very true.It happened in Minneapolis but this has been brewing for weeks. With the killing of Ahmed Aubrey , and Breonna Taylor, the anger and frustration had already begun to fester. So, when George Floyd was murdered ON CAMERA and broadcasted for all to see, it was too much. People had not had time to heal from the other two incidents.And the cavalier attitude of the police did not help the situation.

 

[eleos1954]

It was murder.

So ... you are saying it was premeditated?

 

[ZNP]

Historically, this has been the way the subjugated and disenfranchised have dealt with a gross ignorance of their rights and existence.

Did you forget the beginnings (and middle) of America, or even Australia? Revolt and rebellion against tyrranical governments that don't care about life of the citizens is a symbol of pride for the current Western philosophy on government.

Compare this to the Boston massacre (Redcoats shoot and kill local Bostonites) and the subsequent Boston Tea Party in which they protested against taxation without representation (subjugation, etc).

1. The revolutionaries won the PR war, publishing pictures of the Redcoats killing Boston citizens in cold blood (pictures were hand drawn depictions)

2. the revolutionaries made a very strong point in their protest without taking a PR hit in the Boston tea party.

Now compare this to what happened.

1. The video is disturbing and certainly warrants criminal charges, but not as terrifying as Red Coat soldiers presumably shooting local citizens. It may be as effective to a minority of viewers, but I suspect the majority of viewers still consider the Police as "our police" and not an invading army.

2. The burning police department and the pictures on national news are probably much more terrifying to the vast majority of Americans. They (the majority of viewers) probably feel much more threatened by that video than the one of the police holding a suspect in a fraud case down.

I see a number of possible ramifications. There are many companies that are planning on cutting back 10-40% of the workforce. I suspect videos like that will put Minneapolis at the top of any lists for shutdowns.

I suspect this type of video will galvanize Trump's supporters. This election will now be not just about Covid-19 and Trump's response, but also now about security and safety. If you see more and more of these protests over the summer it could completely change the major issues going into this election. If I can figure this out you can be sure Trump can too.

 

[ZNP]

So ... you are saying it was premeditated?

Looks like the evidence is strong for negligent homicide.

But who knows what evidence they can dig up on the policeman that had previous complaints. If he has been ranting and raving on social media they might be able to make a case for premeditated. I think you would need someone to testify that he had previously told another cop how to kill someone and make it look accidental.

 

[eleos1954]

Looks like the evidence is strong for negligent homicide.

But who knows what evidence they can dig up on the policeman that had previous complaints. If he has been ranting and raving on social media they might be able to make a case for premeditated. I think you would need someone to testify that he had previously told another cop how to kill someone and make it look accidental.

It was a terrible and unjust thing that happened ... we will just have to see how everything unfolds ... main point is it should be fully and deeply investigated and people held accountable for their actions.

 

[LostMarbels]

Nothing has worked since Rodney King... What can the black community ever do beside riot?

I don't wholeheartedly believe that. First off, whether they chose to believe it or not they are not alone. It isn't necessarily 'white people' killing them or arresting them in front of their own home or business... it's cops. It is a authority problem within the policing community. And if it is solely to blame on racism, then yet again it is in the policing community. There aren't random groups of white people shooting blacks for having a cell phone in their hand at their own place of business. Nope, that would be the cops.

In this current scenario... if they hadn't done the looting, and destruction of personal property, I could be down. I understand and even empathize with the anger. If they could have stuck with the cops I could have rolled with it.

 

[ZNP]

One woman who set up the protest in Minneapolis said she just wanted to be treated with "dignity and respect". Her protest was peaceful. But others who were part of the protest turned it into the violent riot.

I would not at all be surprised if it was a false flag incident with the motive of discrediting the protests and with an agenda of moving the US towards a totalitarian regime. But if you are going to take responsibility in organizing protests it is not sufficient that you have no motive for violence, you have to take forethought for things that are honorable before both man and God. You need to make sure your protest is not hijacked for some other agenda.

 

[Mountainmanbob]

Looks like the evidence is strong for negligent homicide.





But who knows what evidence they can dig up on the policeman that had previous complaints. If he has been ranting and raving on social media they might be able to make a case for premeditated. I think you would need someone to testify that he had previously told another cop how to kill someone and make it look accidental.

Should be a slam dunk.
Could upgrade to murder 2 later.
M

 

[Kaon]

Compare this to the Boston massacre (Redcoats shoot and kill local Bostonites) and the subsequent Boston Tea Party in which they protested against taxation without representation (subjugation, etc).

1. The revolutionaries won the PR war, publishing pictures of the Redcoats killing Boston citizens in cold blood (pictures were hand drawn depictions)

2. the revolutionaries made a very strong point in their protest without taking a PR hit in the Boston tea party.

There were no cameras and internet to advertise bad press, and word of mouth was stopped at the mouth - by eliminating the messenger.

Now compare this to what happened.

1. The video is disturbing and certainly warrants criminal charges, but not as terrifying as Red Coat soldiers presumably shooting local citizens. It may be as effective to a minority of viewers, but I suspect the majority of viewers still consider the Police as "our police" and not an invading army.

It is the same thing except that the people just don't matter as much as non hyphenated Americans. They don't even matter as much as immigrants from other nations.

I guarantee if American police were killing Nigerian, Korean or Chinese immigrants or US citizens in the frequency they do Blacks, there would be a serious incident. American "PR" lobbyists know that black Americans have no nation to claim them except the one that subjugated them.

That is why it isn't a big deal yet.

2. The burning police department and the pictures on national news are probably much more terrifying to the vast majority of Americans. They (the majority of viewers) probably feel much more threatened by that video than the one of the police holding a suspect in a fraud case down.

Those people are now FORCED to recognize the injustice and subjugation other CITIZENS in the same nation had to face. That is one of the points of extreme protesting. It says more about the nation than the people

see a number of possible ramifications. There are many companies that are planning on cutting back 10-40% of the workforce. I suspect videos like that will put Minneapolis at the top of any lists for shutdowns.

I suspect this type of video will galvanize Trump's supporters. This election will now be not just about Covid-19 and Trump's response, but also now about security and safety. If you see more and more of these protests over the summer it could completely change the major issues going into this election. If I can figure this out you can be sure Trump can too.

Who cares about Trump supporters when cops are killing people? My goodness...

This is way beyond partisanship, which is why it will never get better in America - just worse, and soon it will be on non-hyphenated Asmricabd - because we let it happen to our fellow citizens and apologize for the incidents. The same judgment/apology will be used when it happens to everyone else.

 

[Aussie Pete]

Historically, this has been the way the subjugated and disenfranchised have dealt with a gross ignorance of their rights and existence.

Did you forget the beginnings (and middle) of America, or even Australia? Revolt and rebellion against tyrranical governments that don't care about life of the citizens is a symbol of pride for the current Western philosophy on government.

If arms of the government stop killing their citizens, and people stop apologizing for these murders (often live or on camera), then maybe we wont have to worry about a bunch of people protesting to an extreme. Death is the extreme opposite of life; if the citizens are ignoring that people are dying for no reason by hands of law enforcement, then of course the people will try to be heard some other way.

The problems isn't with the protesting, the problem is that we have been ignorant to our fellow citizens' existence being threatened. That is why people will never stop dying by hands of cops or law enforcement in America, and they will move on to people who "matter" after they are done with the people who are unheard and ignored.

We are allowing the future of our demise to happen because we are marginalizing the effect on a marginalize part of our nation. So, when it happens to everyone later it will be because it was allowed from the beginning. Every decade the acts against civilians gets bolder until people just accept it as a normal part of life.

The subjugated and disenfranchised achieve little and lose much by violence. Ghandi proved that you don't need to be violent. So did Martin Luther King. Violence plays into the hands of authoritarians. It gives them the opportunity to whittle away your freedoms while pretending to enforce law and order. The people of Hong Kong are finding this out right now. Will the rest of the world step in and protect them? Not a hope. The world bullied poor little South Africa into ending apartheid. The worst they will do to China is send a diplomatic note of disapproval. All that violence will do for minorities in the US is reinforce existing prejudices.

 

[Akita Suggagaki]

QFT! My thoughts exactly. Where is the Church? IMHO the Church fights abortion, but stands idly by while people are murdered before their eyes.Where are the pro-life people? They are silent in the face of this injustice.

Yes, "Pro Life" has focused solely on the abortion issue.

http://www.usccb.org/issues-and-action/human-life-and-dignity/racism/upload/open-wide-our-hearts.pdf

 

[Aussie Pete]

Do you blame Satan for every crime, or the people committing the crimes..?

Both. God holds every individual responsible for their actions. By the world system, I mean governments, commerce, entertainment, sport, education and so on. Police forces are arms of government. I have great respect for most police. But if the policy settings permit brutality, then it's the administration's responsibility. Police who abuse their power should be charged according to their crime. If the administration turns a blind eye, then they and the abusive police are guilty. Satan manipulates the world to suit his agenda - if he is allowed to. Christians have the authority, the power and the duty to shut Satan down. The problem is that too few Christians know or enforce the authority and power that they have.

 

[RDKirk]

What does this have to do with local businesses, though? They're destroying private property. They're stealing private property.

Like the Boston Tea Party.

If it's economic, where's the logic in burning down local businesses? How can you complain about a lack of jobs or opportunities whilst simultaneously destroying and damaging businesses that provide the things apparently in short supply, making them even more scarce? Why burn down a housing project designed for low-income residents?

I have not, not even when I was a teen in the 60s, been able to put myself into the mindset of a rioter. That represents a complete disassociation from society that I've not experienced. I'm not a child of the "hood," I spent my childhood as an Army brat, which meant I lived either on a military facility (which is the epitome of a "gated community"--if a kid acts up on a military installation, the entire family gets thrown off base: The commander says, "Sargent Smith, it appears you can't control your dependents. I want you off this base by Friday") or in neighborhoods of military families (100% employment, 100% father in the home).

My only experiences in the "hood" (a bit in Chicago and more in Washington DC) included me getting mugged multiple times and nearly killed once. I clearly look like I don't belong there.

So I can't understand that mindset, except to study it sympathetically. What I do see is a disassociation from what I and others believe can be a reality. In a way, they seem to be like flat-earthers. What they see immediately around them is what they believe is reality, and the world as far as they can see it is flat.

As a military brat, I got a view of two different worlds. Particularly as most Army installations in my childhood were in the south, I saw a completely different racial situation on post than I saw off post. Off post, there were places that were for whites only...that situation didn't exist on post. I could swim in the same pool or sit in the same movie theater as a white kid. So I wasn't limited to a "flat earth" view of the world. I could see a society outside the gate that was bad and then go through the gates and see a society that was vastly better.

It seems to be a minority of people who have lived in a setting all their lives who can really believe that life can be different--even better--outside that setting. All television, whether Star Trek or Hawaii 5-O is at the same level of fantasy to most of them.

Here is a point: In the US there are about 2500 black professional athletes, that is, people paying their rents and mortgages primarily through sports contracts, including promotional endorsements. That counts all sports, including the baseball minor leagues and even includes retired black athletes. There is about the same number of blacks supporting themselves as entertainers, including those just doing local gigs.

Five thousand blacks living on sports and entertainment in the entire. That's all. There are a couple of million who are making a living as academic professionals: Doctors, lawyers, computer professionals, et cetera. But for so many people in the "hood," somehow sports and entertainment is the attainable reality, and if you can't do that, then there is no hope. It's like believing in a flat earth.

I don't have an answer. I can say that it's not an analogous situation to a government entity that's out of control. No, that's not the opposite side of the same coin, that's a whole different coin. Government is supposed to be controlled, and there is no hypocrisy in demanding that a government agency be brought under control while still not knowing how to handle this other social problem.

 

[ximmix]

Both. God holds every individual responsible for their actions. By the world system, I mean governments, commerce, entertainment, sport, education and so on. Police forces are arms of government. I have great respect for most police. But if the policy settings permit brutality, then it's the administration's responsibility. Police who abuse their power should be charged according to their crime. If the administration turns a blind eye, then they and the abusive police are guilty. Satan manipulates the world to suit his agenda - if he is allowed to. Christians have the authority, the power and the duty to shut Satan down. The problem is that too few Christians know or enforce the authority and power that they have.

I hate the deadly violence police in the US use against their citizens, not sure what has to do with my question tho. Edited to add, i know of course deadly frce is sometimes needed in the police force

 

[RDKirk]

Or, you know, pay attention in school, go to college and become someone that can institute change and play the players you disagree with at their own game.

It's hard to do that when a young kid is in a social setting that strongly militates against that as a possible reality.

Thokozile Masipa is South Africa is one of many examples. Grew up witnesses injustices and decided to do something meaningful about it. Studying in her evenings to become a lawyer and eventually a judge.

The occasional unicorn is not an adequate demonstration of a possible reality.

There is absolutely no justification to destroy private property and rob businesses. If they wanted to destroy property, why not destroy police properties/buildings, or state buildings? Why drag innocent parties in to it?

Those are downtown. It can often be as simple as that.

But yeah, congratulations looters, you probably cost hundreds of jobs of people who had nothing to do with your injustice. Well done. Round of applause for your selfishness.

Are you sure the people in that community had those jobs?

 

[RDKirk]

ASAP will be as soon as the Prosecutor has a strong case with all his evidence lined up. the video alone is not sufficient to prosecute. These police are part of a union and will be receiving very strong defense from attorneys who specialize in these cases.

the protestors are idiots. If you force the police to arrest them then they have to charge them and they have the right to a speedy trial. If you are not ready to go to trial you are not ready to arrest.

The bolded is not at all the way law enforcement works in the United States. Are you kidding?

People get arrested every day and confined often for months before the prosecutor is ready to go to trial. Arrest and confinement almost always happen before charges are filed--before prosecutors even come to work that day.

 

[RDKirk]

So ... you are saying it was premeditated?

Depending on the laws of the state, a murder charge may not require premeditation. In Texas, per-medidiation is merely the distinction between ordinary "murder" and "capital murder." In other states, it will generally be a difference between degrees of murder...but all of them "murder" nevertheless.