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Featured The more I try to understand Christianity the more confused I get

Discussion in 'Requests for Christian Advice' started by SK_Brace, Sep 15, 2020 at 4:02 PM.

  1. th1bill

    th1bill A Believer/Follower

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    First, understand that what I am about to type will PO at least half of this assembly of folks, self-naming themselves Christians. Just the same, every time I've tried being honest in the past, Satan and his agents inside the Church have partied down and drew their rotted Copper Swords to attack, trying to instill fear in me.

    Your words, "trying des[erately," say it all to anyone of True Faith. You, like I and a few hundred thousand believers, have a single requirement to successfully complete this journey into the presence of our Savior and His Father. It is the simplest thing to do, so simple that almost everyone rejects it, out of hand! Your Job, my job, every follower's job is, just, to believe.

    If any person believes, like the Desciple John, releases every aspect of their lives into the control of Yashua ha'Mashiah and is willing to physically die at any moment after that because all but those that are Raptured alive must live through the experation of our Mortal Bodies. That being true, it is not feared by Believers because we, not our bodies but "we" will never expire.

    If you can lower yourself to the position of the Bond Servant with a pierced ear and do nothing more than Yashua instructs, the Father will take care of your faith issues. I had this issue until the LORD broke my heart and removed my conceited, whiskey-drinking, womanizing, conceited butt from the stage. Just trust Him, He will do the rest.
     
  2. klutedavid

    klutedavid Well-Known Member

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    To discuss the deity of Jesus Christ with the JW's, you need a solid understanding of the scripture.

    My best friend was converted to Christianity by the JW's. He had only studied one of the gospels when he studied English literature at university. But he had issues with the claims that the JW's were making. Nearly a year later and many confrontations with the JW's, he realized that he needed Jesus Christ. I thank the JW's for my friends salvation.

    To take on the JW's requires an almost academic understanding of the scripture. I would not recommend that anyone attempt to debate the JW's unless they are willing to commit. A hefty amount of time and research to the deity of the Christ.

    Simply because the JW sect is designed to catch Christians, with a weaker understanding of the scripture. That is their game and they do it well. In fact, they are trained to convert Christians to the JW movement. They even have their own translation of the Bible.
     
  3. xaris

    xaris New Member

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    You don't consider the writings of Moses, David and Isaiah etc., early and historical? The Jews meticulously copied and passed down their writings...the same writings Jesus, Paul, Luke, Peter etc., often quoted from.
     
    Last edited: Sep 16, 2020 at 6:55 PM
  4. fhansen

    fhansen Oldbie

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    Yes, it's all historical, along with the written and unwritten teachings that the church was instructed to hold onto (2 Thess 2:15). And along with further activities of the church including assembling the canon of Scripture, defining the doctrine of the Trinity, ruling on the nature and necessity of grace, decrees on justification, etc. The latter don't involve new revelation of any kind, but nonetheless involve guidance by the Holy Spirit for the benefit of us all.
     
    Last edited: Sep 16, 2020 at 8:48 PM
  5. AvgJoe

    AvgJoe Member since 2005 Supporter

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    Hi SK_Brace,

    Here is an article that may help you with denominations~~~> Why are there so many Christian denominations? | GotQuestions.org

    For the record, Jehovah's Witnesses is not a Christian denomination. Because of their aberrant beliefs, they're not even Christian. The following articles may help you understand them a little better:

    Who are the Jehovah’s Witnesses and what are their beliefs?~~~> Who are the Jehovah’s Witnesses and what are their beliefs? | GotQuestions.org

    Witnessing to Jehovah’s Witnesses – what is the key?~~~> Witnessing to Jehovah’s Witnesses - what is the key? | GotQuestions.org

    This article should help you with Psalm 82:6 & John 10:34~~~> What does the Bible mean by “you are gods” / "ye are gods" in Psalm 82:6 and John 10:34? | GotQuestions.org
     
  6. truthisfreedom2019

    truthisfreedom2019 New Member

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    Gods will (our love for God/good):
    • Jesus answered, “The foremost is, ‘HEAR, O ISRAEL! THE LORD OUR GOD IS ONE LORD; AND YOU SHALL LOVE THE LORD YOUR GOD WITH ALL YOUR HEART, AND WITH ALL YOUR SOUL, AND WITH ALL YOUR MIND, AND WITH ALL YOUR STRENGTH.’ “The second is this, ‘YOU SHALL LOVE YOUR NEIGHBOR AS YOURSELF.’ There is no other commandment greater than these.” The scribe said to Him, “Right, Teacher; You have truly stated that HE IS ONE, AND THERE IS NO ONE ELSE BESIDES HIM; AND TO LOVE HIM WITH ALL THE HEART AND WITH ALL THE UNDERSTANDING AND WITH ALL THE STRENGTH, AND TO LOVE ONE’S NEIGHBOR AS HIMSELF, is much more than all burnt offerings and sacrifices.”(loyalty, true love, is much more than burnt offerings and sacrifices) Mark 12:29-33
    • “Do not think that I came to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I did not come to abolish but to fulfill. “For truly I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not the smallest letter or stroke shall pass from the Law until all is accomplished. “Whoever then annuls one of the least of these commandments, and teaches others to do the same, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but whoever keeps and teaches them, he shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven. Matthew 5:17-19
    His mercy (His love for us) - Trinity?:
    • “If you love Me, you will keep My commandments. “I will ask the Father, and He will give you another Helper, that He may be with you forever; that is the Spirit of truth, whom the world cannot receive, because it does not see Him or know Him, but you know Him because He abides with you and will be in you. “I will not leave you as orphans; I will come to you. “After a little while the world will no longer see Me, but you will see Me; because I live, you will live also. “In that day you will know that I am in My Father, and you in Me, and I in you. John 14:15-20
    • “Believe Me that I am in the Father and the Father is in Me; otherwise believe because of the works themselves. “Truly, truly, I say to you, he who believes in Me, the works that I do, he will do also; and greater works than these he will do; because I go to the Father. John 14:11-12
    As Jesus stated (Mark 12:29-31), there is only one God. God, Jesus, and the spirit of God/good, seems to be what the "trinity" is. All who love God/good receive the same holy spirit that is in God & Jesus and are therefore as one:
    “After a little while the world will no longer see Me, but you will see Me; because I live, you will live also. “In that day you will know that I am in My Father, and you in Me, and I in you. “He who has My commandments and keeps them is the one who loves Me; and he who loves Me will be loved by My Father, and I will love him and will disclose Myself to him.”
     
  7. truthisfreedom2019

    truthisfreedom2019 New Member

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    “Ask, and it will be given to you; seek, and you will find; knock, and it will be opened to you. “For everyone who asks receives, and he who seeks finds, and to him who knocks it will be opened. Matthew 7:7-8

    For if you cry for discernment, Lift your voice for understanding; If you seek her as silver And search for her as for hidden treasures; Then you will discern the fear of the LORD And discover the knowledge of God. Proverbs 2:3-5
     
  8. mindlight

    mindlight See in the dark Supporter

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    Trusting God is forever and based on his presence, Love and the Light and Life which shine in Him. Understanding God is an eternal journey conducted in humility as many of our presuppositions are challenged and overthrown. There are some things, like in the creeds we can just say and other things where there is a plurality of views awaiting Divine clarification. There are other things which we may never understand as being concealed from us or beyond what we can grasp. But the journey is not about us forcing God the universe and everything into our own intellectual scheme but rather about learning to trust the One who created it all.
     
  9. JacksBratt

    JacksBratt Searching for Truth Supporter

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    Actually, I would not hold the JW's and Mormons as "Christ pleasing". I think that they are too far off truth. But that's me.

    I'm glad that you think this way. However, I have been told in no uncertain terms that the RCC is "the" only church and if you are not part of the RCC.. you cannot obtain salvation.... which I denounce out right.
     
  10. Bobber

    Bobber Well-Known Member

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    Good thoughts. New Christians coming into the faith can get so bogged down and in the weeds of theological controversies that they get pulled away from developing the primary things which are most important.....developing a simple relationship with God in prayer and reading his word.
     
  11. imge

    imge New Member

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    Ask God for guidance when reading the Bible. Also look at the scripture as whole and not just a sentence. Sometimes, when you read the whole chapter or a paragraph before and after a confusing verse, you will better understand the intention of the verse that is confusing.

    The problem is the devil is trying to take as many souls as possible so many scriptures seems like its twisted and confusing when its really not with better understanding and studying. Also take what the Bible says over any person or denomination. If you question something ask God for guidance.

    Regarding the Trinity here is some links that may be helpful:
    Books and sermons dealing with Godhead | Trinity | Amazing Facts

    sabbathtruth.com

    God Bless
     
  12. timothyu

    timothyu Well-Known Member

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    God kinda hoped we would form a simple loving relationship with all others. Focusing just on Him shirks that responsibility. Man ends up loving their religions instead of each other.
     
  13. imge

    imge New Member

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    You should seek God and have a relationship with Him before all others. You should also have relationships with people but He is above all.

    Matthew 7:22-23

    Many will say to Me in that day, ‘Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?’ 23 And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!’
     
  14. timothyu

    timothyu Well-Known Member

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    He was more intent on us putting His will before our own. Big difference. Jesus was all about the will of the Father superseding the will of man, His governance over the governance of man, His governance in no way resembling the governance of man. That is the relationship.
     
  15. fhansen

    fhansen Oldbie

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    The best place to learn the official RCC position if you're interested is here:
    Unitatis redintegratio

    Chap 3, Part II addresses Protestant relationships specifically. I think the whole document is worth reading though. And I think that it's noteworthy to keep in mind that there can only be one church that Christ established, while many false gospels also existed, regardless of how we identify that church.
     
    Last edited: Sep 17, 2020 at 1:19 PM
  16. imge

    imge New Member

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    The RCC changed God's Laws to their own (not Biblical)

    The 10 Commandments List, Short Form*
    1. You shall have no other gods before Me.
    2. You shall not make idols.
    3. You shall not take the name of the LORD your God in vain.
    4. Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy. Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work: but the seventh day is the Sabbath of the Lord thy God
    5. Honor your father and your mother.
    6. You shall not murder.
    7. You shall not commit adultery.
    8. You shall not steal.
    9. You shall not bear false witness against your neighbor.
    10. You shall not covet.
    RRC Commandments
    Here are the Catholic Ten Commandments:

    1. I am the LORD your God. You shall worship the Lord your God and Him only shall you serve.
    2. You shall not take the name of the Lord your God in vain.
    3. Remember to keep holy the Sabbath day.
    4. Honor your father and your mother.
    5. You shall not kill.
    6. You shall not commit adultery.
    7. You shall not steal.
    8. You shall not bear false witness against your neighbor.
    9. You shall not covet your neighbor’s wife.
    10. You shall not covet your neighbor’s goods.

    The RCC changed God's Sabbath 4th Commandment to a more convenient day Sunday (again not Biblical)

    I think a lot of people will be heaven from many denominations, not just one. I do think God cares about His Commandments and His laws and reading the Bible it states clearly how important it is to Him. It also states clearly in the Bible to not change any law or anything in the Bible. I think its dangerous for a Church to think that their institution is above God or what the Bible teaches us.

    How The Sabbath Was Changed

    Catholicism Takes Credit for the Change

    [​IMG]
    Now a quote from the Catholic Press newspaper in Sidney, Australia. “Sunday is a Catholic institution and its claims to observance can be defended only on Catholic principles. From the beginning to end of Scripture there is not a single passage that warrants the transfer of weekly public worship from the last day of the week to the first.”

    The Catholic Mirror of September 23, 1894, puts it this way: “The Catholic Church for over one thousand years before the existence of a Protestant by virtue of her divine mission, changed the day from Saturday to Sunday.”

    To point up the claims we’re talking about, I want to read from two Catechisms. First, from the Convert’s Catechism of Catholic Doctrine by Reverend Peter Giermann. “Question: Which is the Sabbath day? Answer: Saturday is the Sabbath day. Question: Why do we observe Sunday instead of Saturday? Answer: We observe Sunday instead of Saturday because the Catholic Church in the Council of Laodicea transferred the solemnity from Saturday to Sunday.”

    Second, from Reverend Steven Keenan’s Doctrinal Catechism we read this: “Question: Have you any other way of proving that the Church has power to institute festivals of precept? Answer: Had she not such power, she could not have done that in which all modern religionists agree with her; she could not have substituted the observance of Sunday, the first day of the week, for the observance of Saturday, the seventh day; a change for which there is no Scriptural authority.”

    Then from Cardinal Gibbons’ book, The Question Box, p.179, “If the Bible is the only guide for the Christian, then the Seventh-day Adventist is right in observing Saturday with the Jew. Is it not strange that those who make the Bible their only teacher should inconsistently follow in this matter the tradition of the Catholic Church?”

    One more statement taken from the book, The Faith of Millions, p. 473. “But since Saturday, not Sunday, is specified in the Bible, isn’t it curious that non-Catholics who profess to take their religion directly from the Bible and not from the Church, observe Sunday instead of Saturday? Yes, of course, it is inconsistency but this change was made about fifteen centuries before Protestantism was born, and by that time the custom was universally observed. They have continued the custom even though it rests upon the authority of the Catholic Church and not upon an explicit text from the Bible. That observance remains as a reminder of the Mother Church from which the non-Catholic sects broke away like a boy running away from home but still carrying in his pocket a picture of his mother or a lock of her hair.”

    That is a most interesting statement, is it not, friends? And it is a very true statement. There is some inconsistency somewhere along the line, because we have examined the statements of history, and you can check them for yourself in any library. I’m not reading anything one-sided here at all. I’ve tried to give you an unbiased picture. Although we have seen the claims made by the Catholic Church in their publications, we are not reading them to cast any reflection upon anyone, by any means. We are simply bringing you a recital of what has been written and what claims have been made.

    from: How The Sabbath Was Changed | Sabbath Truth
     
    Last edited: Sep 17, 2020 at 4:43 PM
  17. timothyu

    timothyu Well-Known Member

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    So it wasn't the Russians interfering.
     
    Last edited: Sep 17, 2020 at 8:53 PM
  18. fhansen

    fhansen Oldbie

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    Nah, not all denominations list the commandments the same and that's a of matter splitting hairs: holier than thou nonsense.
    It happens primarily with misinterpretations of Scripture, which is why so many can't even agree on whether or not the commandments/law must be obeyed while the ancient churches all teach that it must be. The SDA Church also rightly teaches that man is still obligated to be righteous under the New Covenant. And the RCC, for its part, teaches that those outside the church can still be saved. I tend to think, reading SDA literature, that your church is far more priggish than many churches, and especially in its viscous anti-Catholic writings.
    Sheez. Yes, the Catholic Church, the early church IOW, broke bread and worshiped on the Lord's Day and at some point in practice that became the day, even though the sabbath was also still observed early on. And at some point later the Sunday practice was formalized. Yes, God's church can do that, because God the Holy Spirit can do that. The sabbath law, along with all laws, are for men, not the other way around and they serve men to the extent that we observe and fulfill them by the Spirit. Again, Sola Scriptura adherents, not allowing for the benefit of the church's lived experience, basically go by their own opinions and best-guess theology rather than by the gospel as received by the church at the beginning. Then many of those same churches accept the eastern and western Catholic Church's conciliar decisions such as those hammered out at Nicaea on the Trinity and those regarding the canon of New Testament Scripture, at least, and the decrees on grace at the second council of Orange, to name a few. All of our heritage traces itself through the one church that Christ established and if not for that church Christianity probably would hardly even be known today.
     
    Last edited: Sep 17, 2020 at 8:26 PM
  19. timothyu

    timothyu Well-Known Member

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    When man took of the fruit of knowledge, they became self aware and as a result pursued self interest, which naturally lead to self justification. We are at the religious point where everyone pulls for their team rather than the Kingdom.
     
  20. JacksBratt

    JacksBratt Searching for Truth Supporter

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    There is only one church.... It is made up of every single human who accepts Christ as their savior and believes on His name and follows Him... It is made up of all of those people who hold this view.. no matter if they are RC, Pentecostal, Baptist, Anglican, or hold no affiliation what so ever.

    Christ started a way of life, a following, not a religion or a denomination.
     
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