Starting today August 7th, 2024, in order to post in the Married Couples, Courting Couples, or Singles forums, you will not be allowed to post if you have your Marital status designated as private. Announcements will be made in the respective forums as well but please note that if yours is currently listed as Private, you will need to submit a ticket in the Support Area to have yours changed.
I know very well what an anti-missionary is. I studied with them, challenged them, and have discussed them with Orthodox rabbis. After 30 years in this community, how could anyone not know what an anti-missionary is??? I find the question insulting, to say the least.Do you know what an anti-missionary is? (accented to draw attention to the question)
Not seein' it, sister.My mission is not to create strife but to end it. Long before I joined this group, strife already existed.
Look, if you want to call Hebrew-Christians "Messianic Jews", feel free. But it takes a lot of chutzpah to think we're all going to change our terminology based on your say-so.And apparently, what I have experienced is not new on the board. I thought I was joining a Messianic Judaism group. But instead, this is a group which objects to what most Messianic Jews actually believe.
Diversity, I can live with. What you're doing is something else.Messianic Judaism opposes One Law. Or, the people on this board will have to stop coming against Messianic Jews and what they believe and live as a diverse community.
No, they are part of that "diversity" you profess you want.Since people here have repeatedly come against Messianic Jews who believe in the SOF of the MJAA, then this board is anti-Messianic Jews.
Granted, I haven't read all the messages you claim to have received. I've heard nothing about anybody having problems with ANY of the views expressed on this forum. But, speaking strictly for myself, that's a ridiculous notion.You don't really want us here.
Would you care to show me the portion of the MJAA or UMJC SoFs that purportedly contradict the full inclusion and integration of Gentiles into a Messianic Jewish community, with both rights and responsibilities appropriate to ALL members of the Body?So, again, the name will have to be changed as the beliefs here do not represent Messianic Judaism, and to ensure Messianic Jews don't come here and speak what they believe, which many get very upset about, means the name must be changed.
I don't know... that sure doesn't sound like it is trying to set Gentiles outside the camp of the Torah.Current MJAA SoF said:MJAA: Statement of Faith
As of 3/9/2012
We observe and celebrate the Jewish Holy Days given by God to Israel, with their fulfillment in and through the Messiah Yeshua.
We believe that true "Biblical Judaism," the faith of first century believers, which we seek to practice, acknowledges the continuity of faith in the one true God, revealed throughout the Scriptures, and ultimately manifested in God's Son, Yeshua the Messiah.
We believe that salvation has always been "by faith," and that works of law, or righteous acts, have never saved anyone (Genesis 15:6; Romans 2-6; Ephesians 2:8-9; Hebrews 11:6, 39).
We acknowledge that the New Covenant body of believers is composed of both Jews and Gentiles who have received Yeshua the Messiah as the Promised Redeemer. The "middle wall of partition" has been broken down and now we worship the God of Israel together (I Corinthians 12:13; Ephesians 2:13-14).
Sam wis said:I must ask: I thought Torah was to be our foundation and standard?
Darlin' like I've said, I've been here for a few years and yes we've had strife, but it was usually caused by lone rangers who come in with an agenda and stir the pot.My mission is not to create strife but to end it. Long before I joined this group, strife already existed. I was not aware of this when I joined, but those who subscribe to One Law object to what I believe as a Messianic Jew.
Qnts and/or whoever,
I was interested in the early statement of faith by HCAA, which came to be MJAA. I've not been able to find such so far.
Any good help would be very much appreciated.
Thank you.
Easy G (G²);59993178 said:Found one resource here that was very in-depth..and for others:
Some of the resources included the actual pamphlets they used in the meetings during the 1920-30s era. Hope it helps...
- "The Messianic Jew
- The Messianic Jewish Movement
- The History of Jewish Christianity
- "Chapter 20: The Rise of Messianic Judaism
- MESSIANIC JEWISH HISTORY by Mottel Baleston
- Ernest Lloyd - International Hebrew Christian | HaDavar
- The image of the Judaeo-Christians in ancient Jewish and Christian literature
- HEBRLN CHRISTIAN CONFERENCE or THE INTERNATIONAL ...
- Jesus Christ in world history: his presence and representation in ... - Page 242
- "A History of the 20th Century Movement in America of "Jewish Believers" in "Yeshua Ha Mashiach" (Jesus Christ)
- "The London Society for Promoting Christianity Amongst the Jews (extract from the Report of the Committee). With Dr. Buchanans Speech, as to the State of the Jews in the East".
Easy G (G²);59993178 said:Found one resource here that was very in-depth..and for others:
Some of the resources included the actual pamphlets they used in the meetings during the 1920-30s era. Hope it helps...
- "The Messianic Jew
- The Messianic Jewish Movement
- The History of Jewish Christianity
- "Chapter 20: The Rise of Messianic Judaism
- MESSIANIC JEWISH HISTORY by Mottel Baleston
- Ernest Lloyd - International Hebrew Christian | HaDavar
- The image of the Judaeo-Christians in ancient Jewish and Christian literature
- HEBRLN CHRISTIAN CONFERENCE or THE INTERNATIONAL ...
- Jesus Christ in world history: his presence and representation in ... - Page 242
- "A History of the 20th Century Movement in America of "Jewish Believers" in "Yeshua Ha Mashiach" (Jesus Christ)
- "The London Society for Promoting Christianity Amongst the Jews (extract from the Report of the Committee). With Dr. Buchanans Speech, as to the State of the Jews in the East".
Easy G (G²);59992362 said:You could always talk to the mods directly...but on trying to change the forum, that was something which was done before. You can always talk to folks such as Heber (who long left), ContraMundum, Tishri, Shimshon (and his wife as well) and many other. The main people choose to do is do their thing and keep on going regardless of what others say (if they feel that they are already in line with the SOF since nothing can really be said to them if others complain....for what matters is whether the SOF is adhered to).
Many times, the rhetoric can switch since it has equally been said that others not agreeing with people who disagree with the MJAA and the SOF are NOT to be allowed to share or discuss---and it has been claimed just as often that those trying to keep others from discussing have the "right" to do so since they feel that MJism (from their perspective is being misrepresented). It's why the nature of the forums can be interesting....for the stance of "Diversity should not be SUPPRESSED!!!" can be used by splinter groups when they feel they're not being allowed to share by others in mainstream, but that same stance can be dismissed when others not for splinter groups/divergent thought share their stances and are told "YOU NEED to think like us to be legitimate!!!" For examples, one can go here , here or here/here and here.
Politics...
If there's gonna be diversity championed, then diversity should be championed---and all should agree that MJism is a Mosaic with differing levels/expressions. However, if it's going to be the case that one side/group will always try to suppress anyone and everyone disagreeing with them through a myriad of means, then all talk of "diversity" and discussion on being offended at others trying to tell people what to do needs to stop. For not many would come close to being innocent on that.
Contra's about the only one I'm aware of who really was in extensive dialouge with him offline. And he did mention a number of times where he fellowshipped at.Are you in touch with him (or is anyone else)?
From what I was able to find out, the material from the HCAA in the 1970s era did not seem to alter much from what they already had in place during the previous decades. Alot of the direct material that was stated in the 1970s may not be as available since the MJAA which it changed into may've started anew from the point they changed the name, making the HCAA materials of previous times in need of no further updating. It seems to be the case that the HCAA material that would serve as a reference point for a Statement of Purpose was already incapsulated in what was said before prior to the new MJAA coming into being.Ah, thank you. Will take time to peruse all this. Looking for, of course, what the HCAA adhered to or not, as they become MJAA later in the 197?s.
Shalom Lulav,Why is it Qnts that you answer everyone else's posts but mine?
I only just woke up off the sofa from the Sabbath meal sleepies. Time for beddie-bye. G'Night!Qbts2 said:Shalom,
I do not have time to respond as it is I have to prepare for Shabbat. I'll try to remember to get back to this later.
God bless.
Easy G (G²);59993539 said:Contra's about the only one I'm aware of who really was in extensive dialouge with him offline. And he did mention a number of times where he fellowshipped at.
Easy G (G²);59993564 said:From what I was able to find out, the material from the HCAA in the 1970s era did not seem to alter much from what they already had in place during the previous decades. Alot of the direct material that was stated in the 1970s may not be as available since the MJAA which it changed into may've started anew from the point they changed the name, making the HCAA materials of previous times in need of no further updating. It seems to be the case that the HCAA material that would serve as a reference point for a Statement of Purpose was already incapsulated in what was said before prior to the new MJAA coming into being.
May have to take another trip to the Library and see if I can find anything concerning book sources rather than online material...but if I come across anything, I'll try to bring it up for review. Shalom...
Seems like the OP question was perfectly intelligible. I don’t know why it required a five-post response the size of a book that didn’t answer it and just offered a different statement.
To answer.... No, I do not agree with the MJAA statement. I’m not Messianic.
Did a little rummaging around and found the following:
Early congregations
The first identifiable congregation made up exclusively of Jews who had converted to Christianity was established in the United Kingdom in 1813;[4] a group of 41 Jewish Christians established an association called "Beni Abraham", and started meeting at Jews' Chapel in London for prayers Friday night and Sunday morning;[5] In 1885, the first Hebrew Christian church was established in New York.[6] In the 1890s, immigrant Jews who converted to Christianity established the "Hope of Israel" mission on New York’s Lower East Side while retaining Jewish rites and customs.[7] In 1895, Hope of Israel's Our Hope magazine carried the subtitle “A Monthly Devoted to the Study of Prophecy and to Messianic Judaism.” Hope of Israel was controversial: other missionary groups accused its members of being Judaizers, and one of the two editors of Our Hope magazine, Arno C. Gaebelein, eventually repudiated his views, and, as a result, was able to become a leader in the mainstream Christian evangelical movement.[8] In 1915, when the Hebrew Christian Alliance of American (HCAA) was founded, it "consistently assuaged the fears of fundamentalist Christians by emphasizing that it is not a separate denomination but only an evangelistic arm of the evangelical church", and insisted that it would be free of these Judaizing practices "now and forever".[9] In the 1940s and 50s, missionaries in Israel adopted the term meshichyim ("Messianic") to counter negative connotations of the word nozrim ("Christians").[10]
Movement Established
The Hebrew Christian Alliance was formed in Britain in 1860.
The Hebrew Christian Alliance of American (HCAA) was founded in 1915, in part to emphasize to fundamentalist Christians that while it used Jewish forms, it was a cooperating evangelistic arm of the evangelical church.
In 1975, the HCAA changed its name to the Messianic Jewish Alliance of America.
To me, what it appeared to be was simply the attempt to not be for what was occurring in Judaism when there was both denial that Christ was Messiah and vehement denouncement of him/anyone (Jewish or not) following Him as hating the Torah and Biblical culture. For many of the meetings discussed what "Judaizing" meant in very specific terms when it came to focusing upon what occurred in Acts 15.This seems confusing as it seems thoroughly Church based, not very Jewish save for some Jews who seem to be leaving Judaism behind.
Would love to hear sometime....Seems I’m remembering something in 1959, we(myself and another Jewish law student) were going to the new Kol Emeth(Conservative) Shul when we were first led to belief in Y’shua/Jesus as our promised Moschiach, by some older believing men(some in their 70s) in our Congregation and affiliation ideas came up. About the only one I recall that was mentioned was the Hebrew Christian Alliance of America, which turns out to be the MJAA nowadays. The elders did not go for it, I have tried to remember why. I have two friends that were my colleagues back then who are still alive, perhaps I can reach them after Shabbat and possibly they’ll remember better than I. I’ll continue to try to remember, perhaps the memory will return. Some recollective picture keeps bouncing around in my old brain, just haven’t quite centered on it. I will pray HaShem for supply
We use cookies and similar technologies for the following purposes:
Do you accept cookies and these technologies?
We use cookies and similar technologies for the following purposes:
Do you accept cookies and these technologies?