The MJAA as a standard of Messianic Judaism

[anisavta]

Actually, the mine field is because it is not a safe place for Messianic Jews. I have been called many names on this forum because I am a Messianic Jew.

Those on this forum subscribe to One Law, which is not a belief in Messianic Judaism. And then apparently call Messianic Jews names. I have heard from many Messianic Jews. Real Messianic Jews. Who have been attacked on this forum.

I am trying to make it a safe place for Messianic Jews. But in order to do that, people here are going to have to agree with the MJAA. That is a very good definition of Messianic Judaism, as it is written to include all Messianic Jews. Unlike this forum, where the members want to exclude Messianic Jews who don't subscribe to One Law. Of course, Messianic Judaism does not subscribe to One Law, so very very few Messianic Jews will.

I have said, many times that the title of the forum has to change, as this group is attacking Messianic Jews, banning Messianic Jews, calling Messianic Jews Christians, etc etc etc, all on a forum representing itself as Messianic Judaism and with a SOF which all Messianic Jews would agree with.

It was a safe place before when we could all agree to disagree.

No, it is not just about me. It is about the abuse and actual Anti-Messianic Jews stance the people on this forum have taken. The truth is, many of the people on the forum actually hate Messianic Jews, and what Messianic Jews believe and are trying to chase them off a forum which is labeled to be for Messianic Jews.

To call us anti-missionary is indeed a flame. Quite out of line. And to say point blank that some here hate MJs is also a flame and beyond just an insult.

 

[Qnts2]

Dear Sister, you don't go in with your guns blazing as a means of keeping the peace. Don't you think most of us here have heard all of this before? Most us us came out of a 'systematic theology' framework that we found wanting. Sister Qnts2, if you would like to see how we see the topic of grace, do a quick search. There are hundred of threads that have beat this topic to death. Or start one of your own. I'm sure you will have a lively discussion.

Our problem here is that we are gun shy. Regularly, people come in here trying to save us from ourselves and beating us over the head with 'grace'. OPs are hijacked, threads are derailed, posters are disrespected and confronted - again and again and again. It is very frustrating.

Look, the Torah observant among us don't have anything against you or any Jew, Messianic or otherwise. But turning every discussion into a 'grace only' soapbox is probably not the best way to win anyone over. Can we just agree that your theology and ours (boy do I feel weird talking for others on the board because we are so diverse) does not always agree and try and stay on topic?

That said, the largest MJ organizations are great. They are filled with wonderful people, almost all of which I can find something with which to disagree. But they all have many more things with which I do agree. Jeepers, just quit trying so hard. We aren't a bunch of monsters. We will change as we are led or are convinced.

I wish you well.

As a newbie, I came to the board with no preconceived notions, other then this was a Messianic Judaism board. I read all of the SOF, and agreed with them all, before posting my first post.

I was not greeted. It was probably on my second or third post that I was attacked. Since then, many have recommended that I call myself a Christian, among other things. So I posted the SOF of this board, and different Messianic Judaism organizations.

So, if you all are gunshy, I am sorry, but.... Apparently you gunshyness included attacks on many people who are Messianic Gentiles and Messianic Jews. So, the solution is to gang up on the newbies who do believe in the SOF of Messianic Judaism?

By the way, the only reason I bring up Grace is because so many are speaking against it. I am actually responding to what appears to be an anti-grace stance. Although I do believe in grace, I normally don't talk much about it as Messianic Judaism believes in grace and I would assume we are all in agreement on a Messianic Judaism forum.

 

[mishkan]

It was a safe place before when we could all agree to disagree.

Indeed. There are lots of people on many forums with whom I disagree. That doesn't mean we can't be friends, and turn to other topics.

To call us anti-missionary is indeed a flame. Quite out of line. And to say point blank that some here hate MJs is also a flame and beyond just an insult.

I agree completely.

 

[Avodat]

Perhaps the Mods will close this thread?

 

[Qnts2]

It was a safe place before when we could all agree to disagree.

To call us anti-missionary is indeed a flame. Quite out of line. And to say point blank that some here hate MJs is also a flame and beyond just an insult.

I did not say 'anti-missionary'. I did say anti-Messianic Jews. And that is not a flame. Since I have objected to statements made on this board, I have seen posts, and received private message, and e-mails from people who say that my experience is not unique. That this is the way this board does things. That the people on this board have run Messianic Jews off the board. And Messianic Gentiles also.

So, what am I to think. I come to a board and feel I have been blind sided by a group who disagrees with Messianic Judaism and comes after Messianic Jews (and Gentiles), who are not One Law.

No, this is not a flame. I am putting out here what needs to be said. This is the perception of this board by many Messianic Jews and Messianic Gentiles who have watched our interaction and experienced the same thing on this board.

So, if you want to continue as you were before my arrival, then simply ask that the name be changed to One Law. You won't have any trouble from us pesky Messianic Jews. I suspect most of us will honor the title changes and since we are not One Law, we will not be a member of the same community.

But, if you want this board to really be Messianic Judaism, then Messianic Jews and Gentiles are likely to join and will not agree with One Law. But it would allow Messianic Jews and Gentiles on the Messianic Judaism section of this board.

 

[Qnts2]

It was a safe place before when we could all agree to disagree.

To call us anti-missionary is indeed a flame. Quite out of line. And to say point blank that some here hate MJs is also a flame and beyond just an insult.

I am posting a second post.

I did not call you an anti-missionary. That is a wrong accusation. And since such an accusation is so repugnant, I am going to ask you to rescind your false accusation. Since, other are now repeating what you falsely accused me of.

 

[SAM Wis]

That does help some.

But, I have already written, Messianic Judaism has no problems with Gentiles who are called to keep the law. But, One Law teaches that Gentiles must keep the law.

That is a teaching contrary to Messianic Judaism. Messianic Judaism is not defined by law keeping. One Law is.

Since this is a Messianic Judaism forum, with the MJAA as the SOF, that is what it should be. But, for the most part, Messianic Jews are not welcome here because in reality this is a One Law forum.

I am sorry to read that you and others have experienced name calling here.
I can see the tensions here, even in just a few month's participation.I have felt caution, too, not wanting to step on proverbial toes.

I do not think this disrespectful behavior is in any way pleasing to our Elohim. However it is also true that it is important to be aware of when one is behaving in a provocative manner. For what it is worth, I affirm the gentle reminder that it is not helpful to come in with "guns blazing." There are sadly, many here who are very emotionally reactive, one way or the other.

This whole "labeling" of "One Law" vs. "Divine Invitation" seems indicative of strife and division. Polarization is rarely helpful. But it does feed into the evil one's schemes; if he can't draw us entirely away from our faith, he can bring such discord that we are rendered nearly harmless, a discredit to our Messiah.

But when you assert:

That is a teaching contrary to Messianic Judaism. Messianic Judaism is not defined by law keeping. One Law is.

I must ask: I thought Torah was to be our foundation and standard?

Isn't "Messianic Judaism" one of human being's attempts to interpret the Torah? How is it that people think one interpretation is absolutely clearly pure when as far as I can see there have always been various "sects" and beliefs, and "halacha" in various areas that are not always in agreement?

Who among us is absolutely certain that they alone have such a pure and correct understanding?

I mean no disrespect to a group of people who have maintained their identity across generations against all odds, surely sustainable only by our Elohim. Baruch haShem!

And neither do I want to be marginalized or discounted as a grafted-in member of the family of the God of Israel.

 

[Yahudim]

As a newbie, I came to the board with no preconceived notions, other then this was a Messianic Judaism board. I read all of the SOF, and agreed with them all, before posting my first post.

I was not greeted. It was probably on my second or third post that I was attacked. Since then, many have recommended that I call myself a Christian, among other things. So I posted the SOF of this board, and different Messianic Judaism organizations.

So, if you all are gunshy, I am sorry, but.... Apparently you gunshyness included attacks on many people who are Messianic Gentiles and Messianic Jews. So, the solution is to gang up on the newbies who do believe in the SOF of Messianic Judaism?

By the way, the only reason I bring up Grace is because so many are speaking against it. I am actually responding to what appears to be an anti-grace stance. Although I do believe in grace, I normally don't talk much about it as Messianic Judaism believes in grace and I would assume we are all in agreement on a Messianic Judaism forum.

Again, I apologize. I would have you feel welcome. I'm sorry that you feel you weren't greeted properly. But I just went back and read through your first five or six posts. I didn't see anything out of the ordinary. Perhaps you should have said, "Hi, I'm new!" Not everyone reads post counts.

Well you make the call. Do you want to take a deep breath and try again? You realize of course, that we will still consider ourselves Messianic and we probably won't be changing the name of this faith group any time soon, right?

 

[anisavta]

Perhaps the Mods will close this thread?

Yes please!!!!!

 

[Yahudim]

Sister Qnts2,

Is anti-Messianic really an improvement? Really?

 

[mishkan]

I am posting a second post.

I did not call you an anti-missionary. That is a wrong accusation. And since such an accusation is so repugnant, I am going to ask you to rescind your false accusation. Since, other are now repeating what you falsely accused me of.

That's just pettiness. Most of us can read. We all understood her to be playing off your, "Anti-Messianic Jews/Judaism" statements.

Besides, having said this...

this group is attacking Messianic Jews, banning Messianic Jews, calling Messianic Jews Christians, etc etc etc, all on a forum representing itself as Messianic Judaism

... you might as well HAVE called us all anti-Missionaries. Isn't that really what you're trying to say???

Since you arrived here, you have seemed dedicated to causing division and strife in the house. One almost gets the impression you chose to visit this forum with the specific mission of stirring the pot. Might that be an accurate conjecture?

 

[Yahudim]

I am sorry to read that you and others have experienced name calling here.
I can see the tensions here, even in just a few month's participation.I have felt caution, too, not wanting to step on proverbial toes.

I do not think this disrespectful behavior is in any way pleasing to our Elohim. However it is also true that it is important to be aware of when one is behaving in a provocative manner. For what it is worth, I affirm the gentle reminder that it is not helpful to come in with "guns blazing." There are sadly, many here who are very emotionally reactive, one way or the other.

This whole "labeling" of "One Law" vs. "Divine Invitation" seems indicative of strife and division. Polarization is rarely helpful. But it does feed into the evil one's schemes; if he can't draw us entirely away from our faith, he can bring such discord that we are rendered nearly harmless, a discredit to our Messiah.

But when you assert:

That is a teaching contrary to Messianic Judaism. Messianic Judaism is not defined by law keeping. One Law is.

I must ask: I thought Torah was to be our foundation and standard?

Isn't "Messianic Judaism" one of human being's attempts to interpret the Torah? How is it that people think one interpretation is absolutely clearly pure when as far as I can see there have always been various "sects" and beliefs, and "halacha" in various areas that are not always in agreement?

Who among us is absolutely certain that they alone have such a pure and correct understanding?

I mean no disrespect to a group of people who have maintained their identity across generations against all odds, surely sustainable only by our Elohim. Baruch haShem!

And neither do I want to be marginalized or discounted as a grafted-in member of the family of the God of Israel.

 

[Yahudim]

Time to go prepare for sundown. Shabbat Shalom Y'all!

 

[Gxg (G²)]

Isn't "Messianic Judaism" one of human being's attempts to interpret the Torah? How is it that people think one interpretation is absolutely clearly pure when as far as I can see there have always been various "sects" and beliefs, and "halacha" in various areas that are not always in agreement?

Who among us is absolutely certain that they alone have such a pure and correct understanding?

I mean no disrespect to a group of people who have maintained their identity across generations against all odds, surely sustainable only by our Elohim. Baruch haShem!

And neither do I want to be marginalized or discounted as a grafted-in member of the family of the God of Israel.

Live and let live

If everyone on the board can agree to give each other space--and NOT make commentary on others as either being not Messianic enough or saying they cannot share due to being deemed as different in their stances on the level of Torah Observance, then all can roll together rather easily. For no one has the lock or has cornered the market on truth--and as long as all can agree to disagree agreeably...it's all good in the hood

 

[anisavta]

I did not call you an anti-missionary. That is a wrong accusation. And since such an accusation is so repugnant, I am going to ask you to rescind your false accusation. Since, other are now repeating what you falsely accused me of.

I bow to your request and ask your appology. I read it as anti-missionary. Perhaps it is because I have dealt with them in the past in posts and the level of strive in this thread is much the same. I would ask that you also consider recending your accusations that we as a MJ family are anti Messianic and hate Messianics.
Many of us here have survived this forum for several years. We are not newbies. We have been through the fire. We have congratulated each other in our joys and we have cried (quite literally) with those who have suffered great loss. We tend to stick together and when others come in trying to change our name and our identity we stick together as a family. To become part of this crazy cyber mishpacha we have learned to respect each others differences and back off when we have hit a nerve. That way we can all consider ourselves Messianic Jews and Gentiles - black, white, male, female, rich, poor, outspoken or reserved.

 

[Qnts2]

That's just pettiness. Most of us can read. We all understood her to be playing off your, "Anti-Messianic Jews/Judaism" statements.

Besides, having said this...



... you might as well HAVE called us all anti-Missionaries. Isn't that really what you're trying to say???

Since you arrived here, you have seemed dedicated to causing division and strife in the house. One almost gets the impression you chose to visit this forum with the specific mission of stirring the pot. Might that be an accurate conjecture?

Do you know what an anti-missionary is? (accented to draw attention to the question)

My mission is not to create strife but to end it. Long before I joined this group, strife already existed. I was not aware of this when I joined, but those who subscribe to One Law object to what I believe as a Messianic Jew.

And apparently, what I have experienced is not new on the board. I thought I was joining a Messianic Judaism group. But instead, this is a group which objects to what most Messianic Jews actually believe.

Again, there would be no strife if this was not named Messianic Judaism, as most Messianic Jews do not believe in One Law. Messianic Judaism opposes One Law. Or, the people on this board will have to stop coming against Messianic Jews and what they believe and live as a diverse community. Since people here have repeatedly come against Messianic Jews who believe in the SOF of the MJAA, then this board is anti-Messianic Jews. You don't really want us here. So, again, the name will have to be changed as the beliefs here do not represent Messianic Judaism, and to ensure Messianic Jews don't come here and speak what they believe, which many get very upset about, means the name must be changed.

 

[Qnts2]

I bow to your request and ask your appology. I read it as anti-missionary. Perhaps it is because I have dealt with them in the past in posts and the level of strive in this thread is much the same. I would ask that you also consider recending your accusations that we as a MJ family are anti Messianic and hate Messianics.
Many of us here have survived this forum for several years. We are not newbies. We have been through the fire. We have congratulated each other in our joys and we have cried (quite literally) with those who have suffered great loss. We tend to stick together and when others come in trying to change our name and our identity we stick together as a family. To become part of this crazy cyber mishpacha we have learned to respect each others differences and back off when we have hit a nerve. That way we can all consider ourselves Messianic Jews and Gentiles - black, white, male, female, rich, poor, outspoken or reserved.

Thank you.

Actually, I do not see this board as anti-Messianic. Just anti-Messianic Jews as we for the most part disagree strongly with One Law. If Messianic Jews come to this board, and are accepted, then you will need to understand Messianic Judaism and Messianic Jews do not believe in One Law.

There are groups which call themselves Messianic who support the One Law teaching. The majority of these stay away from Messianic Judaism groups.

If you can accept Messianic Jews who do not believe in One Law, then I will very gladly appologize for saying people here are anti-Messianic Jews as I would have been mistaken for saying that.

 

[Steve Petersen]

I must have been sleeping through all this.

 

[Qnts2]

Shalom,

I do not have time to respond as it is I have to prepare for Shabbat. I'll try to remember to get back to this later.

God bless.

I am sorry to read that you and others have experienced name calling here.
I can see the tensions here, even in just a few month's participation.I have felt caution, too, not wanting to step on proverbial toes.

I do not think this disrespectful behavior is in any way pleasing to our Elohim. However it is also true that it is important to be aware of when one is behaving in a provocative manner. For what it is worth, I affirm the gentle reminder that it is not helpful to come in with "guns blazing." There are sadly, many here who are very emotionally reactive, one way or the other.

This whole "labeling" of "One Law" vs. "Divine Invitation" seems indicative of strife and division. Polarization is rarely helpful. But it does feed into the evil one's schemes; if he can't draw us entirely away from our faith, he can bring such discord that we are rendered nearly harmless, a discredit to our Messiah.

But when you assert:

That is a teaching contrary to Messianic Judaism. Messianic Judaism is not defined by law keeping. One Law is.

I must ask: I thought Torah was to be our foundation and standard?

Isn't "Messianic Judaism" one of human being's attempts to interpret the Torah? How is it that people think one interpretation is absolutely clearly pure when as far as I can see there have always been various "sects" and beliefs, and "halacha" in various areas that are not always in agreement?

Who among us is absolutely certain that they alone have such a pure and correct understanding?

I mean no disrespect to a group of people who have maintained their identity across generations against all odds, surely sustainable only by our Elohim. Baruch haShem!

And neither do I want to be marginalized or discounted as a grafted-in member of the family of the God of Israel.

 

[Messianic Jewboy]

Once again, this Messianic Judaism organization does not see a requirement for Gentiles to keep the Mosaic law. So this is Messianic Judaism and not One Law. However, I do believe if a Gentile feels called of God to keep the Mosaic law, then they should. It is not a requirement, it is a calling.

Right this is main stream, however it seems like since 2006 from doing some research my take is Messianic Judaism split. There has been some documents that I've read from Dr Brown and others that all seem to be in the same time frame 2006.

Being a member of MJAA and a MJAA congregation I know for a fact that the focus isn't on Torah or no Torah, focus is on Yeshua's salvation. What is heard or taught I'm convinced is what's found online from groups that split from the mainstream. No different than Christianity having 1000's of denominations.