The Minimum Wage Tradeoff

[Ken-1122]

Lets look at it this way, in many places 7$'s a hour is minimum wage, where as people have to work 2-3 jobs to live off of that, you pay people 15$'s a hour and suddenly they only need 1 job at half the hours, and look suddenly more jobs open up. Lets also look at it this way, there are many businesses that can't just cut work hours, there is a minimum needed, some might where they can, but at the same time people will need less jobs. It's not suddenly there is just as many jobs and man hours of work needed, raise minimum wage and both can go down without harm.

My experience with raising the minimum wage

When I was a teenager, I got a job at McDonalds, I worked a whole year and got a 10% raise, and found myself in a position where I was able to afford more due to the increased buying power one hour of work provided me. Then minimum wage went up 10%. Now did I get a 10% raise? No! I worked there a whole year and was right back at minimum wage; then when all the prices went up (always happens when minimum wage increases) I found my increased buying power went away, so the only thing increasing minimum wage accomplished was to put more people like me on minimum wage. Raising minimum wage didn’t increase the buying power of an hours work for anybody, it only decreased the buying power for people like me who previously barely rose above minimum wage.

 

[loveofourlord]

My experience with raising the minimum wage

When I was a teenager, I got a job at McDonalds, I worked a whole year and got a 10% raise, and found myself in a position where I was able to afford more due to the increased buying power one hour of work provided me. Then minimum wage went up 10%. Now did I get a 10% raise? No! I worked there a whole year and was right back at minimum wage; then when all the prices went up (always happens when minimum wage increases) I found my increased buying power went away, so the only thing increasing minimum wage accomplished was to put more people like me on minimum wage. Raising minimum wage didn’t increase the buying power of an hours work for anybody, it only decreased the buying power for people like me who previously barely rose above minimum wage.

Your conveniently leaving out that the prices are going to go up on their own over time anyway, remember minimum wage if it kept up with inflation would be around 15$'s right now. Prices will go up a bit but not at the same rate, and if they go up there will be more problems for the store. It's a reality that the minimum wage as it currently is, is not sustainable if it stagnates at the same rate it is, people are going to continue to be on welfare and barely getting by.

 

[OldWiseGuy]

Ummm what is it for? You do realize that there isn't enough jobs for people to get living wages in the states, it's not like there is a surplus of living wage jobs and people are just too lazy to look for better jobs. Some has to be the greeterse, and baggers as Walmart that are never going to pay a living wage no matter how long you work there and so on. This is just reality, money and resources aren't a infinite resource. You guys whine about welfare queens, and then don't care to give people living wages, you can't have it both ways.\

Why would anyone stay in a minimum wage job?

Oh and on the whole nonsense of, "Buying stuff you don't need." hey genius, in many states you CAN NOT even rent a apartment on minimum wage period.

Sure you can. Three or four guys (or gals) in a two bedroom apartment was common in my day; very cheap rent. We all made minimum wage to begin with and did just fine. I lived with roommates for years until I got married. By that time I was making good money.

I fear that young people today want a champagne lifestyle on a beer budget. If all you can afford is beer...drink beer, until you can afford champagne.

Also many have the option to remain at home after high school, which would allow them to save money for college or trade school even on a low wage job. My dad kicked us out when we graduated. Good thing too cause we wanted to PARTY!

 

[loveofourlord]

Why would anyone stay in a minimum wage job?



Sure you can. Three or four guys (or gals) in a two bedroom apartment was common in my day; very cheap rent. We all made minimum wage to begin with and did just fine. I lived with roommates for years until I got married. By that time I was making good money.

I fear that young people today want a champagne lifestyle on a beer budget. If all you can afford is beer...drink beer, until you can afford champagne.

Also many have the option to remain at home after high school, which would allow them to save money for college or trade school even on a low wage job. My dad kicked us out when we graduated. Good thing too cause we wanted to PARTY!

Why would anyone stay at a minimum wage job? Oh so your saying there is enough high paying jobs for everyone in the states qualified? It's their fault, and not lack of availability of better jobs? You act like there is actually enough for everyone to get off minimum wage jobs. Where are these magickal jobs that can pay everyone living wage?

You have things like

Not enough jobs for better pay
Not everyone is qualified for those better jobs.
And even if qualified no guarantee they will be able to get the job while competing with many others.

 

[OldWiseGuy]

Nobody should go hungry, homeless or jobless in the supposedly "greatest country in the world".
Ringo

No disrespect, but I'll bet that you would oppose many of the social measures needed to solve these problems.

For example, if you took a homeless drug addict off the streets he or she would now have food and shelter, but would be deprived of their freedom. Better to die in the street a free person than be warmed and fed in a government facility.

 

[OldWiseGuy]

Why would anyone stay at a minimum wage job? Oh so your saying there is enough high paying jobs for everyone in the states qualified? It's their fault, and not lack of availability of better jobs? You act like there is actually enough for everyone to get off minimum wage jobs. Where are these magickal jobs that can pay everyone living wage?

You have things like

Not enough jobs for better pay
Not everyone is qualified for those better jobs.
And even if qualified no guarantee they will be able to get the job while competing with many others.

I'm guessing that a "living wage" is one that allows one to buy whatever shiny objects catch their fancy.

You don't go from minimum wages to high paying jobs overnight. You work your way up.

There a lot of good paying jobs out there but they require education and training.

 

[Ken-1122]

Oh my...where do I begin?

First, you're not my boss, (thank the Lord for that). But even if you were, you'd still have no say in how I choose to live my life.

Then quit asking me to financially support how you live your life

Second, I'm not talking about people going out and boozing it up at night,

Neither am I

and I don't know how you got that impression

I never gave that impression, that’s just something you made up!

unless either you're too comfortable to have to struggle to make a living or being willfully dense. I'm speaking about people who barely make enough at their workplace to make the rent, or put food on the table.

Get a 2nd job if necessary, rent a room instead of an apartment, buy a bus ticket instead of a car, buy 2nd hand clothes instead of new clothes, and take advantage of government support programs where you can

Nobody should go hungry, homeless or jobless in the supposedly "greatest country in the world".
Ringo

Even your Jesus said; “the poor you will have with you always” ….. he was right.

 

[Ken-1122]

Your conveniently leaving out that the prices are going to go up on their own over time anyway.

My point is, my wage was increasing faster than the rate of inflation; minimum wage prevented this from happening.

 

[OldWiseGuy]

My experience with raising the minimum wage

When I was a teenager, I got a job at McDonalds, I worked a whole year and got a 10% raise, and found myself in a position where I was able to afford more due to the increased buying power one hour of work provided me. Then minimum wage went up 10%. Now did I get a 10% raise? No! I worked there a whole year and was right back at minimum wage; then when all the prices went up (always happens when minimum wage increases) I found my increased buying power went away, so the only thing increasing minimum wage accomplished was to put more people like me on minimum wage. Raising minimum wage didn’t increase the buying power of an hours work for anybody, it only decreased the buying power for people like me who previously barely rose above minimum wage.

Reduced buying power doesn't affect you if you don't buy anything whose price just went up. There was also a long period when the minimum wage increased above the rate of inflation. It has only recently fell slightly below.

The average cost of a new car goes up each year, now reaching $31,000 or so. If you buy used, keep up on maintenance, it can be cheap transportation for many years. Now you can save up for the house and start building real wealth.

 

[mark46]

Minimum wage should not be based on what is necessary to raise a family

The goal of Minimum wage is not to reduce the amount of welfare people require

.

I strongly disagree.

 

[bèlla]

I fear that young people today want a champagne lifestyle on a beer budget. If all you can afford is beer...drink beer, until you can afford champagne.

Many young people have “grown folks problems.” Too much debt in relation to their age and income.

My daughter lives at home and will remain here until she marries. We have different priorities. I prefer for her to build wealth than waste money on rent and living expenses.

She watched financial programs growing up. Her favorite was Suze Orman’s Can You Afford it segment. People called in and shared their finances and the item they wanted to buy. Most were denied and she told them why. Many had little savings or not enough set aside for retirement.

It was an eye opening example of American spending habits. Many live above their means and consumerism is an impediment to financial freedom.

Yours in His Service,

~bella

 

[OldWiseGuy]

The issue is buying power

Which has totally tanked.

There are more things to spend on today. One has to buy only what they can afford, if they want to keep their heads above the water financially.

 

[OldWiseGuy]

While that's wonderful for you, the circumstances that allowed you to succeed may not exist for many other people. Those other people should have the same ability to succeed as you did, and that includes paying them enough so that they can afford basic human needs to food and shelter.
Ringo

There are more opportunities today than there were for me, and the same 'rules for survival and success' still apply.

Live at home if you can.
Work as much as you can.
Live Spartan like.
Stay out of debt.
Save as much as you can, for
Higher education or training.
Stay out of trouble.
Stay single until you are sound financially.

 

[mark46]

Folks here seem to be arguing for no minimum wage at all. After all, removal of a minimum wage will lead to employers higher more people.
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Do you all support welfare and other payments for those who work and are still in poverty, as is the case at $7.25 an hour?
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ONE OPEN QUESTION
What should the FEDERAL government put into policy and law? Federal employees now have a minimum of $15M an hour. The federal government is the employer and they have made a decision. I see no reason to object to this.

An OPEN question is what minimum level should be forced to the nation as a whole. Some prefer that the government allow very low rates ($7.25 less meals), and then make decisions with regard to welfare payments. Simplicity is really a good idea. Let us reduce the number of people on the federal welfare dole. Of course, even better would be lots of federal support for transportation infrastructure jobs with taxes (gasoline tax is best) to pay for these jobs.

The level of the minimum wage is a red herring. If we want a national minimum wage, it should be set (perhaps where it began adjusted for inflation, and have it increase with inflation.

ANOTHER OPEN QUSTION
Where should decisions be made regarding where to spend state monies to help the needy? Is this really a federal responsibility? If there is a need for the federal government to move Texan money to the those in MISS, let the Republican propose and support such policy. Even then, the decision-making on where to spend the money should be subject to state NOT federal priorities. In revenue sharing, the money for programs is sent to the states who decide among the programs to spend the money.

FINALLY
Why should DC decide on a national minimum wage beyond some minimum? Shouldn't states make those decisions? FL has just voted for Trump AND voted for minimum wage increase to reach $15.

BOTTOM LINE
We should remove lots of the administrative costs of federal social programs. The government is well able to calculate and distribute monies. If the federal government wants to give more tax credits to individuals who are poor (or increased earned income credits), fine. If the federal government wants to send federal money to poor states, fine. HOWEVER, we need to move the decision-making to the states. In the end, deciding whether to spend more for schools, for libraries or for welfare is a local issue. If folks in Texas want to help their poor, then they should elect governments that do so. They should not count on the federal government.

 

[Rachel20]

She watched financial programs growing up. Her favorite was Suze Orman’s Can You Afford it segment."

We liked Suze too and followed much of her advice. First the credit card debt. Then the car. Then the mortgage. Each step freed up more money for the next. Now we save. Many don't bother because they feel overwhelmed, but writing down a plan and sticking to it works.

 

[mark46]

.

My daughter lives at home and will remain here until she marries. We have different priorities. I prefer for her to build wealth than waste money on rent and living expenses.

~bella

To be clear. You and your adult daughter disagree, and you have decided that she should remain home until she marries.

This has been the case in many households for many centuries. A young woman is encouraged to marry early than she might to gain freedom from her parents.

Have I misunderstood?

 

[rambot]

There are more things to spend on today. One has to buy only what they can afford, if they want to keep their heads above the water financially.

That's not what buying power means.

 

[bèlla]

To be clear. You and your adult daughter disagree, and you have decided that she should remain home until she marries.

There’s no disagreement. She wants to be home.

The primary motive is marriage and family. She wants to homeschool. But living on one income is challenging. I encouraged her to pursue self-employment instead. She can work from home and contribute to the household while homeschooling. It provides more flexibility and won’t burden her future spouse financially.

~bella

 

[OldWiseGuy]

That's not what buying power means.

The problem isn't the marginal differences between wages and inflation, which is easily navigable. The problem is the plethora of things that people believe are necessary for their happiness and the wages they think they should have in order to buy these things right now.

 

[iluvatar5150]

My experience with raising the minimum wage

When I was a teenager, I got a job at McDonalds, I worked a whole year and got a 10% raise, and found myself in a position where I was able to afford more due to the increased buying power one hour of work provided me. Then minimum wage went up 10%. Now did I get a 10% raise? No! I worked there a whole year and was right back at minimum wage; then when all the prices went up (always happens when minimum wage increases) I found my increased buying power went away, so the only thing increasing minimum wage accomplished was to put more people like me on minimum wage. Raising minimum wage didn’t increase the buying power of an hours work for anybody, it only decreased the buying power for people like me who previously barely rose above minimum wage.

My point is, my wage was increasing faster than the rate of inflation; minimum wage prevented this from happening.

Your math, your memory, and your understanding of what drives inflation are all faulty.

First, for someone at the bottom of the wage scale, minimum wage hikes can't cause all prices to increase in a way that wipes out all of their increased purchasing power. It's mathematically impossible due to the fact that prices are driven by a combination of factors, some of which are entirely independent of wages.

Second, from the way you tell your story, the growth rate of your wages was not exceeding the rate of inflation - it was keeping pace with both inflation and the minimum wage, even if it preceded the minimum wage hike by a year. The only time the growth of the minimum wage has ever exceeded the rate of inflation over more than a year or two was in the 1950's-60's. If this is the time period we're talking about, then your buying power was increasing, even if you didn't realize it. If, however, we're talking about a different time period, then what you're basing your entire perspective on is a single short-term fluctuation, not the broader trend of your buying power staying roughly steady or decreasing.
The US minimum wage through the years