Irrelevant.As I said:
"They compliment each other not contradict.Unless you do not believe what Luke says?"
Upvote
0
The Mark of the Beast
- Thread starter shilohsfoal
- Start date
Irrelevant.As I said:
"They compliment each other not contradict.Unless you do not believe what Luke says?"
I believe Mathew said much more than Luke.I believe Mathew tedtimony is not irrelevant as you said.
Upvote
0
How can I say Matthew is irrelevant if I said Matthew and Luke compliment and do not contradict each other?
Upvote
0
- Feb 24, 2002
- 15,534
- 4,827
- 57
- Country
- United States
- Faith
- Catholic
- Marital Status
- Married
- Politics
- US-Others
Regardless of what Matthew did or did not ad, The fact remains, Luke's Gospel must contain the WHOLE TRUTH.
Do you believe it does?
Did the people who received Lukes Gospel and nothing else have enough information to understand, accept and be saved?
Luke is missing nothing. His gospel can be trusted as whole and complete.
Upvote
0
Trakpo Korlochen
Active Member
- Mar 24, 2019
- 47
- 7
- 68
- Country
- France
- Faith
- Non-Denom
- Marital Status
- Married
On Obama's first day on the job as POTUS, heaven sent a miracle to mark him as the Antichrist. The lottery in Obama's home town drew 666.
Upvote
0
helmut
Member
They are without excuse, but the problem is that some got the opportunity to hear the Gospel that saves from their just damnation, others not.
It's the end of time, when Jesus will come back.
I never thought otherwise.
Why do you assume not all will repent?
According to Acts 15:14 the Gentile Christians are a people of God, not just part of Israel. This start point of what James says determines how the following has to be understood. The end point of this is that the Gentile Christians are subject to the laws that are given for foreigners dwelling among Israel. BTW, an analysis of this speech came to the result, that James arrived it by relying on the Hebrew text, a LXX reader would have reached at "proselytes among you" instead of "foreigners among you". That shows some light on the debate at that meeting, and why James did not follow the position of his Greek-speaking followers in Antioch.
Yes, I did not mean to say otherwise. But Paul in Rom 11 does speak of those who did not accept as twigs that will be restored to the tree (by accepting Christ when he comes back), and so all Israel will be saved. All Israel, that are those who are enemies because of the Gospel (Rom 11:28), and they will become obedient to God (Rom 11:30-32). In cannot see that "all Israel" also includes non-Jews.
All Israel, this are the 144.000 of all tribes of Israel, we non-Jews are the uncountable multitude (Rev 7,1-8,9-17. The people God gathered among the non-Jewish nations (Acts 15:14).
Upvote
0
helmut
Member
Obama said Jesus was not the Christ? Or not the Son of God? Or anything else that is said about the AC in 1.John 2:18,22; 4,4; 2.John 7?
And if you mean the Beast: did the Lottery spell out Obama's name? If not, the 600,60,6 was not connected to the beast.
PS: Are you sure this lottery 666 is no fake "news"?
Last edited:
Upvote
0
[safswan said: ↑
"Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them.For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:"(Romans 1:19,20)
QUOTE="helmut, post: 73795254, member: 206559"]They are without excuse, but the problem is that some got the opportunity to hear the Gospel that saves from their just damnation, others not.[/QUOTE]
But there can be no problem as the passage clearly shows that all would have had the opportunity to receive the light present in their own time,not necessarily the gospel as we know it.Hence we can conclude that God is fair.
[safswan said: ↑
Does it mean that all Israel at a certain point in time will be saved?Why at that time if one should say yes?What is so special about them at that time?
QUOTE="helmut, post: 73795254, member: 206559"]It's the end of time, when Jesus will come back.[/QUOTE]
This still does not constitute a credible definition of "all Israel". You also would have to ignore the context of Paul's discourse from Romans 9 onward to this point,Romans 11.Notice this revealing statement:
Romans 9:27Esaias also crieth concerning Israel, Though the number of the children of Israel be as the sand of the sea, a remnant shall be saved:
How does a remnant become, "all", at any point in time.Paul hints at this before when he said:
Romans 9:
22What if God, willing to shew his wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction:
23And that he might make known the riches of his glory on the vessels of mercy, which he had afore prepared unto glory,
24Even us, whom he hath called, not of the Jews only, but also of the Gentiles?
25As he saith also in Osee, I will call them my people, which were not my people; and her beloved, which was not beloved.
26And it shall come to pass, that in the place where it was said unto them, Ye are not my people; there shall they be called the children of the living God.
These Gentiles that had come to believe and had joined with the believing Jews were called what?
Paul continues and says:
Romans 10:
11For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.
12For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him.
What name is to be given to those who call upon Him?Is there one name for the Jew and another for the Gentile?
Paul explains what has happened to natural Israel in Romans 11:1-24,and concludes:
Romans 11:
25For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.
26And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:
It is the combination of Israel that is not blinded plus those who will believe in the last days plus the Gentiles that comprise "all Israel shall be saved".Paul confirms this when he refers to the church as:
Galatians 6:
15For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision, but a new creature.
16And as many as walk according to this rule, peace be on them, and mercy, and upon the Israel of God.
Supported by:
Romans 2:
28For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh:
29But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.
[safswan said: ↑
If this is so and if we can assume all will not repent,then how is this "all Israel" ?
QUOTE="helmut, post: 73795254, member: 206559"]Why do you assume not all will repent?[/QUOTE]
If God will not force persons to serve Him then this is a reasonable assumption but even Paul supports this conclusion when he says:
Romans 11:
22Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off.
23And they also, if they abide not still in unbelief, shall be graffed in: for God is able to graff them in again.
So there is no certainty that all will believe as Paul says they will be grafted in IF they do not remain in unbelief.
[safswan said: ↑
Many persons contradict themselves as they try to ignore the spiritual roots of the Church. They will admit that Acts 15:14 refers to an event which has already occurred. Acts 15:15-17 further elaborates to show that the scriptures i.e. Amos 9:11-12 agree with the event which has occurred. The Tabernacle of David was being built and Gentiles were becoming a part of this as Simeon said, (Acts 15:14; 10:44-48) i.e. they were becoming a part of the Church. Hence, the Church is the rebuilding of the Tabernacle of David and Gentiles were seeking the Lord through it (Acts 15:17). However,further on they will attempt to place the rebuilding in the future, as they quote Acts 15:14-16 and conveniently omit verse 17 which is linked to verse 14 and which, by their own admission has already occurred.
Click to expand...
QUOTE="helmut, post: 73795254, member: 206559"]According to Acts 15:14 the Gentile Christians are a people of God, not just part of Israel. This start point of what James says determines how the following has to be understood. The end point of this is that the Gentile Christians are subject to the laws that are given for foreigners dwelling among Israel. BTW, an analysis of this speech came to the result, that James arrived it by relying on the Hebrew text, a LXX reader would have reached at "proselytes among you" instead of "foreigners among you". That shows some light on the debate at that meeting, and why James did not follow the position of his Greek-speaking followers in Antioch.[/QUOTE]
I have not found that term(Gentile Christians) in my bible(KJV)What translation do you use which has this term?The point I tried to make in quoting/citing Acts 15:14 was:
The Tabernacle of David was being built and Gentiles were becoming a part of this as Simeon said, (Acts 15:14; 10:44-48) i.e. they were becoming a part of the Church. Hence, the Church is the rebuilding of the Tabernacle of David and Gentiles were seeking the Lord through it (Acts 15:17).
Hence Gentiles were becoming a part of true Israel.Remember Paul had said:
Romans 9:
6....For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel:
There are no Jewish Christians nor Gentile Christians in God's economy all are the same and are the Israel of God also called the Church of God.
[safswan said: ↑
The physical descendants of Israel who have not accepted Christ as Saviour have been cast off (Romans 11:15-20; Matthew 23:37-39).If they receive Christ, they shall then become a part of God's people i.e. true Israel (Romans 11:23-24). This does not apply to those who died out of Christ. They have perished as they died in their sins (John 8:20-24; Matthew 1:21).
QUOTE="helmut, post: 73795254, member: 206559"]Yes, I did not mean to say otherwise. But Paul in Rom 11 does speak of those who did not accept as twigs that will be restored to the tree (by accepting Christ when he comes back), and so all Israel will be saved. All Israel, that are those who are enemies because of the Gospel (Rom 11:28), and they will become obedient to God (Rom 11:30-32). In cannot see that "all Israel" also includes non-Jews.
All Israel, this are the 144.000 of all tribes of Israel, we non-Jews are the uncountable multitude (Rev 7,1-8,9-17. The people God gathered among the non-Jewish nations (Acts 15:14).[/QUOTE]
See what was written above.Also remember Paul said Israel of the flesh would only be grafted in if they did not remain in unbelief.There is no certainty to this.
Romans 11:
23And they also, if they abide not still in unbelief, shall be graffed in: for God is able to graff them in again.
The 144,000 are not "all Israel".
"Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them.For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:"(Romans 1:19,20)
QUOTE="helmut, post: 73795254, member: 206559"]They are without excuse, but the problem is that some got the opportunity to hear the Gospel that saves from their just damnation, others not.[/QUOTE]
But there can be no problem as the passage clearly shows that all would have had the opportunity to receive the light present in their own time,not necessarily the gospel as we know it.Hence we can conclude that God is fair.
[safswan said: ↑
Does it mean that all Israel at a certain point in time will be saved?Why at that time if one should say yes?What is so special about them at that time?
QUOTE="helmut, post: 73795254, member: 206559"]It's the end of time, when Jesus will come back.[/QUOTE]
This still does not constitute a credible definition of "all Israel". You also would have to ignore the context of Paul's discourse from Romans 9 onward to this point,Romans 11.Notice this revealing statement:
Romans 9:27Esaias also crieth concerning Israel, Though the number of the children of Israel be as the sand of the sea, a remnant shall be saved:
How does a remnant become, "all", at any point in time.Paul hints at this before when he said:
Romans 9:
22What if God, willing to shew his wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction:
23And that he might make known the riches of his glory on the vessels of mercy, which he had afore prepared unto glory,
24Even us, whom he hath called, not of the Jews only, but also of the Gentiles?
25As he saith also in Osee, I will call them my people, which were not my people; and her beloved, which was not beloved.
26And it shall come to pass, that in the place where it was said unto them, Ye are not my people; there shall they be called the children of the living God.
These Gentiles that had come to believe and had joined with the believing Jews were called what?
Paul continues and says:
Romans 10:
11For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.
12For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him.
What name is to be given to those who call upon Him?Is there one name for the Jew and another for the Gentile?
Paul explains what has happened to natural Israel in Romans 11:1-24,and concludes:
Romans 11:
25For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.
26And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:
It is the combination of Israel that is not blinded plus those who will believe in the last days plus the Gentiles that comprise "all Israel shall be saved".Paul confirms this when he refers to the church as:
Galatians 6:
15For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision, but a new creature.
16And as many as walk according to this rule, peace be on them, and mercy, and upon the Israel of God.
Supported by:
Romans 2:
28For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh:
29But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.
[safswan said: ↑
If this is so and if we can assume all will not repent,then how is this "all Israel" ?
QUOTE="helmut, post: 73795254, member: 206559"]Why do you assume not all will repent?[/QUOTE]
If God will not force persons to serve Him then this is a reasonable assumption but even Paul supports this conclusion when he says:
Romans 11:
22Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off.
23And they also, if they abide not still in unbelief, shall be graffed in: for God is able to graff them in again.
So there is no certainty that all will believe as Paul says they will be grafted in IF they do not remain in unbelief.
[safswan said: ↑
Many persons contradict themselves as they try to ignore the spiritual roots of the Church. They will admit that Acts 15:14 refers to an event which has already occurred. Acts 15:15-17 further elaborates to show that the scriptures i.e. Amos 9:11-12 agree with the event which has occurred. The Tabernacle of David was being built and Gentiles were becoming a part of this as Simeon said, (Acts 15:14; 10:44-48) i.e. they were becoming a part of the Church. Hence, the Church is the rebuilding of the Tabernacle of David and Gentiles were seeking the Lord through it (Acts 15:17). However,further on they will attempt to place the rebuilding in the future, as they quote Acts 15:14-16 and conveniently omit verse 17 which is linked to verse 14 and which, by their own admission has already occurred.
Click to expand...
QUOTE="helmut, post: 73795254, member: 206559"]According to Acts 15:14 the Gentile Christians are a people of God, not just part of Israel. This start point of what James says determines how the following has to be understood. The end point of this is that the Gentile Christians are subject to the laws that are given for foreigners dwelling among Israel. BTW, an analysis of this speech came to the result, that James arrived it by relying on the Hebrew text, a LXX reader would have reached at "proselytes among you" instead of "foreigners among you". That shows some light on the debate at that meeting, and why James did not follow the position of his Greek-speaking followers in Antioch.[/QUOTE]
I have not found that term(Gentile Christians) in my bible(KJV)What translation do you use which has this term?The point I tried to make in quoting/citing Acts 15:14 was:
The Tabernacle of David was being built and Gentiles were becoming a part of this as Simeon said, (Acts 15:14; 10:44-48) i.e. they were becoming a part of the Church. Hence, the Church is the rebuilding of the Tabernacle of David and Gentiles were seeking the Lord through it (Acts 15:17).
Hence Gentiles were becoming a part of true Israel.Remember Paul had said:
Romans 9:
6....For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel:
There are no Jewish Christians nor Gentile Christians in God's economy all are the same and are the Israel of God also called the Church of God.
[safswan said: ↑
The physical descendants of Israel who have not accepted Christ as Saviour have been cast off (Romans 11:15-20; Matthew 23:37-39).If they receive Christ, they shall then become a part of God's people i.e. true Israel (Romans 11:23-24). This does not apply to those who died out of Christ. They have perished as they died in their sins (John 8:20-24; Matthew 1:21).
QUOTE="helmut, post: 73795254, member: 206559"]Yes, I did not mean to say otherwise. But Paul in Rom 11 does speak of those who did not accept as twigs that will be restored to the tree (by accepting Christ when he comes back), and so all Israel will be saved. All Israel, that are those who are enemies because of the Gospel (Rom 11:28), and they will become obedient to God (Rom 11:30-32). In cannot see that "all Israel" also includes non-Jews.
All Israel, this are the 144.000 of all tribes of Israel, we non-Jews are the uncountable multitude (Rev 7,1-8,9-17. The people God gathered among the non-Jewish nations (Acts 15:14).[/QUOTE]
See what was written above.Also remember Paul said Israel of the flesh would only be grafted in if they did not remain in unbelief.There is no certainty to this.
Romans 11:
23And they also, if they abide not still in unbelief, shall be graffed in: for God is able to graff them in again.
The 144,000 are not "all Israel".
Upvote
0
But Sir if this is just your opinion and you have no scripture to support your view then your claim is irrelevant and simply an invention to support your view.
Upvote
0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums
- May 19, 2015
- 125,492
- 28,588
- 73
- Country
- United States
- Faith
- Christian
- Marital Status
- Single
- Politics
- US-Libertarian
That is referring to the Saints in 1st century Jerusalem/Judea/Israel.....Note revelation
Luke 21
20 “But when you see Jerusalem surrounded by armies, then know that its desolation has come near.
24 “And they will fall by the edge of the sword, and be led away captive into all nations. [Revelation 13:10]
And Jerusalem will be trampled<3961> by Gentiles until the times of the Gentiles are fulfilled.” [Luke 19:43-45 Revelation 11:2]
=======================
Revelation 2:10 "tribulation 10 days"
Revelation 2:10 No yet othou be fearing! which-things thou are being about to be suffering.
Behold! the Devil is being about to be casting ye into a prison<5438>, that ye may be being tried. And ye shall be having Tribulation ten days,
Be thou becoming! faithful until death! and I shall be giving to thee the crown of the life.
Revelation 13:10 [Luke 21:24]
If any to-captivity into captivity is going away.
If any in sword to be killed, is binding him in sword to be killed.
Here is the endurance and the faith of the Saints.
Upvote
0
Similar threads
