The Mark! Allegiance to the Imperial Cult

[GW]

There are two identifiable "marks" in Revelation.

The sealing of the 144,000 jews is accomplished by a mark in the forehead in parallel fashion to the MARK of the beast in the forehead (see Rev. 9:4 and Rev. 7:2-8 and Rev 14:1).   Futurists are never consistent on this -- if one is physical-literal then shouldn't BOTH MARKS be seen as physical-literal?  Yet just ask a futurist who is the "computer chip manufacturer" today who is producing the "Mark of God," and they have no answer.  However, they will speculate all day and night on which technology company is in cahoots with satan to produce his computer implant.  I propose that Bill Gates is working on the "Mark-of-God chip implant" for the 144,000. Hehe.    

But, in fact, John didn't have computer chips in mind at all when he wrote the passage.  Rather, as in so many other parts of Revelation, he was quoting the Old Testament.  The following passages should be carefully examined when discussing "the mark on the forehead or hand" that marks people for doom or salvation:

Ez. Chapter 9  -- angels mark people for God's destruction of Jerusalem in 6th Century B.C.

Deut 6:8, Deut 11:18, Exodus 13:9  -- God's marks commanded to be upon the head and hands of his people to show their faithfulness

John's notions in his vision are related to Old Testament concepts -- not modern day conjectures that the MARK of the beast is  to be thought of as a some computer product.



CORRELATING EVENTS IN JOHN'S TIME:

William Barclay's generic comments on The Mark:

* On every contract of buying or selling there was a charagma, a seal, and on the seal the name of the emperor and the date. If the mark is connected with this, it means that those who worship the beast accept his authority. Note: this could also be the seal of ownership.

* All coinage had the head and inscription of the emperor stamped upon it, to show that it was his property [coins read: "Caesar is God"]. If the mark is connected with this, it means that those who bear it are the property of the beast.

* When a man had burned his pinch of incense to Caesar, he was given a certificate to say he had done so. The mark of the beast may be the certificate of worship which a Christian could obtain only at the cost of denying his faith.


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Enforced Emperor Worship:

The Imperial-Cult worship of the Emperor as Lord was enforced throughout the entire empire.  Roman officers governed this practice to make sure everyone was abiding by the law --  when one offered sacrifices to Caesar compliance certificates were issued that you had worshipped the Emperor.  These certificates allowed business as usual within the Roman system.  Failure to comply was an act of War against the Roman State.

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DAVID CHILTON: On Economic Boycotts

The Jewish Leaders organized economic boycotts against those who refused to submit to Caesar as Lord, the leaders of the synagogues "forbidding all dealings with the excommunicated," and going so far as to put them to death.

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6-6-6: The Number of the Existing Caesar

The Hebrew form of "Caesar Nero" is Nrwn Qsr (pronounced "Neron Kaiser").  The value of the seven Hebrew letters is 50, 200, 6, 50, 100, 60, and 200, respectively.

 

[GW]

DAVID CHILTON'S COMMENTARY ON THE MARK OF THE BEAST
(from "Days of Vengeance," pages 341-352)
--click through these links in order and you will be taken page by page through Chilton's commentary.


page. 341
page. 342
page. 343
page. 344
page. 345
page. 346
page. 347
page. 348
page. 349
page. 350
page. 351
page. 352

 

[ScottP]

GW,

Several flaws in your theory:

* On every contract of buying or selling there was a charagma, a seal, and on the seal the name of the emperor and the date. If the mark is connected with this, it means that those who worship the beast accept his authority. Note: this could also be the seal of ownership.

Not everything bought or sold had this contract so does not fulfill the prophesy.

* All coinage had the head and inscription of the emperor stamped upon it, to show that it was his property [coins read: "Caesar is God"]. If the mark is connected with this, it means that those who bear it are the property of the beast.

Once again even though the coin of the time had this. it was still possible to buy and sell without it. IE: trading goods for other goods. As in 5 chickens for 1 pig.

* When a man had burned his pinch of incense to Caesar, he was given a certificate to say he had done so. The mark of the beast may be the certificate of worship which a Christian could obtain only at the cost of denying his faith.

You could still buy and sell without this certificate.

In fact the absolute closest thing to the mark of the beast would be the Social Security Number used in the US. You cannot work, to earn money to buy the initial goods to trade without one. However, this is stil NOT the mark because 1) it is not in al parts of the world and 2) it's not written on our hands or on our heads.

Now take that SSN number and put in on your hand, tie it to my bank account, and do this for the whole world and you would have the mark.

Remember the requirement that NO MAN rich or poor may buy or sell without this mark.

Scott

 

[kern]

A third reason why the SSN is not the mark of the beast is that it is distinct for each person, rather than the 666 (or 616) from Revelation. This is the same reason why any sort of identification chip or barcode cannot be "the mark".

-Chris

 

[GW]

Scott,

You seem to have blown right by the post.

First, St. John is not speaking of a literal mark on the right hand or on the forehead. If you say he is then you must demonstrate to me who is manufacturing the Mark of God to go into foreheads per Revelation 14:1??? (See also Rev. 9:4 and Rev. 7:2-8.) If your "mark of beast" is a physical/literal marking on hands and heads then so is Rev 14:1! Who is manufacturing this? I want names and companies so I can line up and get my mark of God. I look forward to your answer. Should be telling.


The fact is, St. John is combining Deut 6:8, Deut 11:18, Exodus 13:9 and Ezekiel Chapter 9 to speak of the corruption of the jews of his day. That is, he is specifically referring to the Phylacteries which the jews wore on their hands and their foreheads that were supposed to serve as marks of God's covenant law bound upon them. In this case, the jews have become apostate and bound up in Caesar worship and idolatry, and so their Phylacteries are NOT the marks of God upon them but rather the Marks of the Ancient Roman Empire -- the Beast. This is why John cites that they have a MAN'S number upon them; The Hebrew form of "Caesar Nero" is Nrwn Qsr (pronounced "Neron Kaiser"). The value of the seven Hebrew letters is 50, 200, 6, 50, 100, 60, and 200, respectively -- 666. There is no question that Caesar Nero is the Man-Beast of Revelation -- 666. Click here for more:

The Beast of Revelation: IDENTIFIED
by Kenneth Gentry
http://www.preteristarchive.com/PartialPreterism/gentry-ken_pp_02.html



Finally, I have quoted how the jews staged economic boycotts on the early Church to persecute them. Why? Because the early jewish followers of Jesus rejected the then-apostate jewish system and the idolatry the Nation had fallen into. The Jews had all the same powers of prosecution as Rome through the Herods -- jews loyal to the Roman State.

 

[Brian45]

Good work GW I liked it , you have been learning your history , what a shame that most people don't know their history . I can't comment on 666 , but I do know there are six hundred and sixty six versions of 666 . Good luck .

 

[RKF]

Are you preterest gonna be surprized very soon

 

[kern]

Footnotes in most modern Bible translations will tell you that some manuscripts have 616 instead of 666, and I have heard that a greek letter -> number conversion of Nero Caesar will yield 616.

-Chris

 

[Wildfire]

To bump this up, I wanted to say that the mark (in my belief) is spiritual; either God is in your mind or not. That is how the angels are able to seal his chosen ones, during the tribulation period, which is yet to come.

Since we cannot see God nor his angels (except to some chosen few in the OT) this seal or mark cannot be seen by man. That is why the end overtakes everyone on earth by suprise; some are waiting for a antichrist chip to be developed, because of what is written.

And he CAUSETH all; it didn't say it was forced,
To RECEIVE a mark; again, not forced,
IN his right hand or IN his forehead,
It is spiritual.

I still believe this is a future event, right around the corner, that is why the <number of the beast> is still lost to us. Remember, we are told that there will be a thirst in the last days; not of a physical nature, but for the words of God.
AND THEY WILL NOT BE FOUND.
People will run to and fro, confusion will rise, and the word of God will not be heard.

Will <we> our children or grandchildren, be silenced or face death for our defense and belief of Jesus Christ?

"In your patience posess ye your souls".

Save your bibles folks.
Who knows whats ahead of us, with Islam on the rise and the attacks coming on American soil. We could be overrun by blasphemy.

Wildfire

 

[ScottP]

If Ceaser was the beast, when was he "wounded to death; and his deadly wound was healed: and all the world wondered after the beast."?

As far as who is making the godly chip, no one, this mark is supernatural and is NOT tied to bank accounts or anything else.

Scott

 

[Shaggy]

As far as who is making the godly chip, no one, this mark is supernatural and is NOT tied to bank accounts or anything else.

The mark will be physical, inspired by God and idealized and created physically by the antichrist and his appointed staff to both keep track of everything personal about you, and to fulfill the prophesy.

So it stands to reason, that YES it will be tied to bank accounts, the mark is going to make everything seem streamlined and safe, this is why the unbelievers will take the mark!

 

[armothe]

Originally posted by Shaggy
The mark will be physical, inspired by God and idealized and created physically by the antichrist and his appointed staff to both keep track of everything personal about you, and to fulfill the prophesy.

So it stands to reason, that YES it will be tied to bank accounts, the mark is going to make everything seem streamlined and safe, this is why the unbelievers will take the mark!

Please state supporting scripture which mentions that the anti-christ will create the mark. And that the mark will keep track of everything personal about you.

-A

 

[Shaggy]

Please state supporting scripture which mentions that the anti-christ will create the mark. And that the mark will keep track of everything personal about you.

Not needed, just a logical theory. The mark and it's technology are being developed by men, under the ultimate supervision of the Antichrist. IMHO (in my humble opinion).

Besides you know the scriptures concerning the mark. People aren't going to just accept a chip or mark unless it has something of great and significant value.

 

[armothe]

Originally posted by Shaggy

Not needed, just a logical theory.

Scriptural support is not needed? Uhm, okay. Well, you go off and believe your man-made theories. I'd rather stick to the Bible.

Besides you know the scriptures concerning the mark. People aren't going to just accept a chip or mark unless it has something of great and significant value.

Yes, I do.....and it has nothing to do with the speculations you've managed to fabricate.

-A

 

[ScottP]

So no answer to the when Cesar was killed by a wound to the head and yet did live question?

Let me ask Preterists another question:
When a chip does come out to be embedded under the skin of your hand to be used as a credit card and becomes the ONLY accepted means to pay for goods and services....will YOU accept the implant since Cesar was the beast and this is just the latest technology?

Scott

 

[armothe]

Originally posted by ScottP
Let me ask Preterists another question:
When a chip does come out to be embedded under the skin of your hand to be used as a credit card and becomes the ONLY accepted means to pay for goods and services....will YOU accept the implant since Cesar was the beast and this is just the latest technology?
Scott

Chances of this happening on a global scale? Slim

Chances of this happening in my lifetime? Slim to None

The fact that I already live in Christ's kingdom now and will never have to worry about implants? Priceless.

-A

 

[ScottP]

You doubt that it will happen in the near future?
Have you heard of Direct Deposit? It is when your employer puts your paycheck directly in your bank account. You don't get currency unless you use your ATM card.

Ever hear of credit cards, check cards or e-commerce? They use little peices of plastic instead of currency and are accepted WORLD WIDE already.

Is it so much of a stretch that the next generation of credit cards are implanted (for security reasons...of course)? They are already in development as we speak.

What would be left but do completely away with paper and coin currency? Not that much of a stretch either since the governments would save money by not having to print and distribute the currency.

So the question remains, IF/WHEN this happens would you accept a "credit card" implant?

Scott

 

[kern]

Originally posted by ScottP

So the question remains, IF/WHEN this happens would you accept a &quot;credit card&quot; implant?

Scott

Do you imagine the Mark to be something that a Christian could accidentally get because he wasn't paying attention to Revelation? I can guarantee you that there are a lot of Christians who aren't as familiar with Revelation as you are; is it possible that they'll get some implant and then oops, it was the Mark? That's not the impression I get from Revelation (although I must say I'm not a futurist).

Also, a credit card chip would not qualify as the Mark for several reasons:
1. Having a credit card has nothing to do with selling (the Mark allows people to buy *and sell*)
2. Unique number for each person, no 666
3. Credit cards are not the only form of payment accepted in the world.
4. The Mark is supposed to come from The Beast. Who is The Beast under this "credit card implant" scenario?

Certainly you can invent scenarios where all three of these would be taken care of, but at some point you have to wonder if you're not just making things up for the purpose of trying to get prophecies fulfilled.
-Chris

 

[Shaggy]

quoted by armothe: The fact that I already live in Christ's kingdom now and will never have to worry about implants? Priceless.

1. How can this be Christs kingdom with all the evil still prevalent?

2. Please show any kind of documentation of Christs return. There is and never has been any documented evidence of Christs return.

3. What about the rapture? There is no documented proof of a mass number of people vanishing from the earth.

 

[Shaggy]

quoted by kern: Also, a credit card chip would not qualify as the Mark for several reasons:
1. Having a credit card has nothing to do with selling (the Mark allows people to buy *and sell*)
2. Unique number for each person, no 666
3. Credit cards are not the only form of payment accepted in the world.
4. The Mark is supposed to come from The Beast. Who is The Beast under this "credit card implant" scenario?

How do you know the masterminds (AntiChrist) have not found a language or system of disguising the 666 in the mark?

Rev 13:15 And he had power to give life unto the image of the beast, that the image of the beast should both speak, and cause that as many as would not worship the image of the beast should be killed.

Rev 13:16 And he causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their right hand, or in their foreheads:

Rev 13:17 And that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name.

Rev 13:18 Here is wisdom. Let him that hath understanding count the number of the beast: for it is the number of a man; and his number [is] Six hundred threescore [and] six. (666)

What this tells us is that no man shall be able to buy or sell unless they have the Mark, or the Name of the Beast, or the Number of his name.

This will be a great deception to mankind, I don't think the actual number 666 will be apparent or be seen by people.

Maybe the company that produces the chip will have the name of the Beast attached to your number.

There are many ways of disguising the number of man.

Maybe the people left after the rapture will take the mark Knowing it has the number of his name because the Antichrist/Leader of the world will convince many that the bible clearly states it is a human number and not to worry. On top of that the world will wonder after him thinking he is God, so it will be an easy task for the Antichrist.